1768 réponses à ce sujet

[Sgt Stryker]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

Take the Council decision in ME1. Paragon is save the council for the good of the galactic stability after the war while the renegade choice is to not waste reinforcements to save a crippled ship and focus on the actual threat saving the galaxy now, without thinking about the future. 

That's what a renegade choice should be IMO.

I know this is probably the wrong place to bring this up, but there's one aspect of the Battle of the Citadel decision that always bugged me. For those who choose to hold back and let the DA get destroyed, what exactly keeps the geth fleet from rejoining the fight inside the Citadel? Are the geth ships somehow destroyed/neutralized by the DA's explosion? If not, wouldn't the tactically correct choice be to attack as soon as possible, in order to catch the geth off balance? Catch the geth between a rock and a hard place, to use a popular cliche. Sure, you may end up taking casualties, but you'll also be able to secure your flank in the process.

[Thompson family]

P.S. The link above from a year ago is a topic I created called "My Shepard's Creed." Here it is:

My only enemies are the Reapers. Willingness to fight the Reapers is, to me, like baptism is to Christians. It washes away all sin.
I will welcome the reformed heretics. If they join the fight against their former masters, they will be my allies.
If Balak, the Batarian terrorist from “Bring Down the Sky,” showed up with a workable plan to crash an asteroid into a Reaper and kill it, I'd help him.
There is no defeat of the Reaper invasion without their utter destruction. I blew up the Collector base without hesitation. You can't board a 37 million year old Reaper corpse without becoming corrupted. You certainly can't use a functioning base without falling under their control or seeking to be ike them.
I’m mortal. I will die someday whether the Reapers kill me or not. Therefore, I will not fear death, which comes to every Organic.
The Reapers fear death. Every Reaper is desperate to escape it. That is why they are coming.
That is why I will win.

[Thompson family]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

I know this is probably the wrong place to bring this up, but there's one aspect of the Battle of the Citadel decision that always bugged me. For those who choose to hold back and let the DA get destroyed, what exactly keeps the geth fleet from rejoining the fight inside the Citadel? Are the geth ships somehow destroyed/neutralized by the DA's explosion? If not, wouldn't the tactically correct choice be to attack as soon as possible, in order to catch the geth off balance? Catch the geth between a rock and a hard place, to use a popular cliche. Sure, you may end up taking casualties, but you'll also be able to secure your flank in the process.

There's a risk that if Sovereign can regain control of the station, it will re-close the Citadel. The Geth are still occupied with the remaining Council fleet because their greatest strength -- Sovereign -- left to go work the Citadel.

Modifié par Thompson family, 24 novembre 2011 - 03:04 .

[Sgt Stryker]

Thompson family wrote...

If Balak, the Batarian terrorist from “Bring Down the Sky,” showed up with a workable plan to crash an asteroid into a Reaper and kill it, I'd help him.

If that Reaper was on the ground on a populated world, would you still do it? Just trying to play devil's advocate, that's all.

Thompson family wrote...

The Geth are still occupied with the remaining Council fleet because their greatest strength -- Sovereign -- left to go work the Citadel.

Ah, so it wasn't just the Destiny Ascension that remained when the 5th Fleet arrived? I didn't know that. Still, couldn't the surviving turian ships join the fight with Sovereign if you attacked and destroyed the geth immediately, then?

[Thompson family]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Thompson family wrote...


The target of the Balak/Shepard asteriod is a Reaper. The raw material is rock.
The target of the TIM/Shepard base is a Reaper, perhaps, but the raw material is liquified people.

Big difference.

No, that is not a big difference. Be it rock or be it human remains it is just material.

Who said anything about remains, SD? You're not looting graveyards here. You have to render people into "material" while they live.

Thompson family wrote...

False comparison, SD. Killing the Council was counter-productive to stopping the Reapers.

Do you know what is even more counter-productive to stopping the Reapers? Letting them win because you don't have the forces necessary to kill Sovereign. 

Sovereign opens the relay. The Reapers pour through and everybody, including the Council, dies. Game over. Reapers win.

OK. I judged the risk to be acceptable. You don't. That's your choice. I prefer to defeat my enemies utterly.

Every goddamn Paragon player on this forum is a hypocrite. You will conduct any moral and mental gymnastics necessary in a vain attempt to justify your hypocrisy. It is disgusting. It is why you deserve no respect.

Well now, that was harsh.

You have no integrity.

I might have felt closer to being slighted if you hadn't just argued that there's no real difference between rocks and melted people.

Modifié par Thompson family, 24 novembre 2011 - 03:20 .

[Thompson family]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

If Balak, the Batarian terrorist from “Bring Down the Sky,” showed up with a workable plan to crash an asteroid into a Reaper and kill it, I'd help him.

If that Reaper was on the ground on a populated world, would you still do it? Just trying to play devil's advocate, that's all.

D*** good question. With no other factors to consider, I'd have to say this: If a Reaper's on the planet, the population is doomed anyway. So the short answer is yes. The long answer would depend on many other factors, such as whether it's one isolated Reaper, how many people are invovled, etc.

Still, couldn't the surviving turian ships join the fight with Sovereign if you attacked and destroyed the geth immediately, then?

Another good one. This probably deserves a seperate thread, although I'm afraid it belongs on the ME1 forum which doesn't get as many hits as it used to. Let me think about that before answering it here.

Modifié par Thompson family, 24 novembre 2011 - 03:33 .

[DiebytheSword]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Every goddamn Paragon player on this forum is a hypocrite. You will conduct any moral and mental gymnastics necessary in a vain attempt to justify your hypocrisy. It is disgusting. It is why you deserve no respect.

You have no integrity.

As a person with Paragon playthroughs, I'll let you know when I can be bothered to measure up to your standards, egotistical blowhard.

Nobody needs their morals or choices to be validated by you, because you've shown nothing but contempt for any thinking that deviates from yours.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

Take the Council decision in ME1. Paragon is save the council for the good of the galactic stability after the war while the renegade choice is to not waste reinforcements to save a crippled ship and focus on the actual threat saving the galaxy now, without thinking about the future. 

That's what a renegade choice should be IMO.

I know this is probably the wrong place to bring this up, but there's one aspect of the Battle of the Citadel decision that always bugged me. For those who choose to hold back and let the DA get destroyed, what exactly keeps the geth fleet from rejoining the fight inside the Citadel? Are the geth ships somehow destroyed/neutralized by the DA's explosion? If not, wouldn't the tactically correct choice be to attack as soon as possible, in order to catch the geth off balance? Catch the geth between a rock and a hard place, to use a popular cliche. Sure, you may end up taking casualties, but you'll also be able to secure your flank in the process.

You're also allowing Sovereign to continue whatever he is doing... I don't know why the choice of words and actions was "hold back" when I think it should have been go in, but ignore the DA and just clear any geth in your path on the way to fight Sovereign. 

IDK really, but that was the best example I could remember where the renegade choice wasn't just douchebaggery. 

[Thompson family]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

^ Quoted yourself, Thompson.

Thanks for the catch. Misattributed someone else's quote to me. Fixed now.

[Thompson family]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Who said anything about remains, SD? You're not looting graveyards here. You have to render people into "material" while they live.

No I'm not. That is what the Collectors did. It is done, over with. All that is left behind is the machinery. Nobody else needs to be liquified.

*facepalm*

Saphra Deden wrote...
Be it rock or be it human remains it is just material.

===================

Or not defeat them at all it seems. So why didn't you stand there and let the Reapers come through the Alpha relay?

Because the tactical goal of the Battle of the Citadel  -- and we agree on this -- was to stop them. My Shep  just got a some extra points and frustrated another Reaper goal.

Modifié par Thompson family, 24 novembre 2011 - 03:39 .

[Sgt Stryker]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

Take the Council decision in ME1. Paragon is save the council for the good of the galactic stability after the war while the renegade choice is to not waste reinforcements to save a crippled ship and focus on the actual threat saving the galaxy now, without thinking about the future. 

That's what a renegade choice should be IMO.

I know this is probably the wrong place to bring this up, but there's one aspect of the Battle of the Citadel decision that always bugged me. For those who choose to hold back and let the DA get destroyed, what exactly keeps the geth fleet from rejoining the fight inside the Citadel? Are the geth ships somehow destroyed/neutralized by the DA's explosion? If not, wouldn't the tactically correct choice be to attack as soon as possible, in order to catch the geth off balance? Catch the geth between a rock and a hard place, to use a popular cliche. Sure, you may end up taking casualties, but you'll also be able to secure your flank in the process.

You're also allowing Sovereign to continue whatever he is doing... I don't know why the choice of words and actions was "hold back" when I think it should have been go in, but ignore the DA and just clear any geth in your path on the way to fight Sovereign. 

Right, it would have been nice to see the Alliance fleet attacking isolated geth ships that were immediately close to the Citadel, but completely bypassing the ones battling the Destiny Ascension. Of course, the 5th Fleet would take minimal or no casualties in the process. I also believe the DA should have been further away from the Citadel than shown in the cutscene, but that's another story.

[Drone223]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Every goddamn Paragon player on this forum is a hypocrite. You will conduct any moral and mental gymnastics necessary in a vain attempt to justify your hypocrisy. It is disgusting. It is why you deserve no respect.

You have no integrity.

Thank you for your insight Saphra

Modifié par Drone223, 24 novembre 2011 - 03:50 .

[Thompson family]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Your Shepard risked total defeat in the process. He gambled with the lives of everyone alive in the entire galaxy and all those who have yet to be born just to satisfy his ego.

Yep. It's a wonder the guy can walk, his pair's so big.

[Thompson family]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Clearly all the blood is flowing to his dick and not his brain.

H***-on like the Citadel.

[Yezdigerd]

I always found the renegade "you risked everything by not saving all human ships for Sovereign" hilarious.
It makes so many assumptions unsupported by the game but in brief ;
Vigil's override is in place hence there is no reason to assume Sovereign can get through from the outside, or Sarens infiltration would have been pointless.
Vigil explained the reaper trap "the war was over before we knew we were under attack" Shepard's anguished response "The reapers can take out the council and the entire citadel fleet in a single surprise attack!" Suggesting that those things are central to the reaper's masterplan and suggested that the bulk of the citadel naval forces were concentrated at the citadel.(further reinforced by the Sovereign attack cutscene with council ships everywhere).
The game made a big thing about how the alliance navy was peanuts in comparsion to the council races. How could it hope to accomplish that which "the entire citadel fleet" couldn't?

I never for a moment imagined that it could and that the finale would be the alliance fleet supporting the citadel fleet and carried the day or a straight macguffin.
Since holding back the fleet made no strategic sense I interpreted it correctly as the option to get rid of the council .The Council was set up as an antagonist, it mocked, questioned and grounded Shepard.
Letting them die is obviously not a sacrifice but a renegade reward. It's a power fantasy of seeing your boss/teacher burn.
By doing so the renegade puts the entire galaxy at risk by inciting a political chaos, but hey they are dicks.

Modifié par Yezdigerd, 24 novembre 2011 - 04:36 .

[Sajuro]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Because the tactical goal of the Battle of the Citadel  -- and we agree on this -- was to stop them. My Shep  just got a some extra points and frustrated another Reaper goal.

Your Shepard risked total defeat in the process. He gambled with the lives of everyone alive in the entire galaxy and all those who have yet to be born just to satisfy his ego.

Like a Renegade Shepard who only sent the fifth fleet after Sovereign wasn't risking the Geth coming up behind them?

Saving the Council, it was a risk but if the fifth fleet engages directly out of the relay we can take the Geth ships by surprise
Trying to save the Batarians, if we had the time then we would of but thanks to Kenson and her team cuddling with Object Rho we were out for almost two days and it was a matter of minutes before the Batarians arrives. It isn't mental gymnastics, destruction of the Alpha relay was absolutely essential while on the Citadel, Shepard used the program Vigil gave him to effectively ****block Sovereign.
And like it or not, it was Shepard defeating Saren Husk that disabled Sovereign for that short time, enabling its defeat.