1768 réponses à ce sujet

[BlueMagitek]

Reapers only live forever if you insist on playing clean. ~_^

Medhia Nox wrote...

@BlueMagitek - it's true that Mass Effect doesn't go too deep down the rabbit hole... but what kind of a man punches a woman reporter because he's tired of her disingenuous assertions (or worse, just for kicks which is why gamers did it)? 

There are Renegade options I agree with - I destroyed the Heretic geth for example.

It's not as much the actions - as it is the mindset (do whatever it takes to survive) - that I find craven and unworthy of pursuing (in most cases) 

I have stated before that I believe Bioware did a disservice to the Renegade option - not because of "unfairness" - but because it's got three different personalities crammed into it. "Stoic pragmatist" - "Insufferable Douchebag" - and "Ultraviolent Sociopath"

Don't ask me, I don't take that option. 

There are Paragon options I agree with as well; playing entirely to one side or another doesn't make sense to me, even if you're roleplaying a deranged Shep or a blindly idealistic Shep.

Ah, but this is not a conventional foe we are against.  These are beings that have destroyed higher orgnaic life for a simply unacceptable period of time.  If you fail, the cycle continues and organic life continues to suffer.  That's why you want to take the pragmatic option when it comes up; yes, there may be a way to defeat the Reapers without such measures, but do you want to risk it?  Another thing is that, even if Shepard is sacrificed on the Paragon path, that's still a much lesser sacrifice on the grand scheme of things than what the Renegade path may have given up.

The same can be said about Paragon.  The way Shepard justifies some decisions is based on emotions rather than logical thinking.  But yes, there are times when Renegade seems to just be "not Paragon".  I do wish there were more viable neutral options.

[Seboist]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Wouldn't be surprised if we saw this as an email in ME3:

Greetings Shepard,

Ever since you let me escape, I felt horrible because of the murder I committed with the Eclipse. Finally seeing the mistakes of my decisions, I decided to take control of the Eclipse mercenaries.

Now I'm committing suicide (for the horrible crimes I've committed) and sending the Eclipse to you, good luck reclaiming Earth! I know you can do it!

Signed, Elnora.

DiebytheSword wrote...

Good for Rhaegar, he is remembered, how will you be remembered GodWood?

Alive.

Or Elnora becomes the head of an orphanage..... that was later burned down by Cerberus after they had decapitated all the kids with butter knives.

[Omega4RelayResident]

Renegage Shep: Samara hi how are you.

Samara: Hello Shepard good to see you.

Renegade Shepard: I am so happy the Reaper threat has been dealt with... so what brings you around?

Samara: Errr... I dont know how to say this... but.... FIND PEACE IN THE EMBRACE OF THE GODDESS!

[Critical Mission Failure]

Just a friendly reminder to all you Renegades that chose Samara over Morinth.

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 08 décembre 2011 - 06:24 .

[Dave of Canada]

I'd rather deal with Samara who's openly trying to kill me than Morinth who tries to do it with lies and manipulation.

[The_11thDoctor]

I hope it does. I hate how par = win to be frank. I usually play paragon first, but most of the choices are stupid and unrealistic in all situations to do and annoy me to no end that I have to do par to get a good ending. Renegade should = calculated decisions and if harsh but for the greater good, then so be it. If you know something might kick you in the face later if you dont kill someone, you should be able to do it and not always = bad consequences. Sometimes it should be the best choice. I hope you can get best ending under renegade as well as paragon. If not I will feel very disappointed and feel that they only want you to make dumb decisions in war that would get you and others killed in a "real" situation.

Renegade shouldnt always equal a personality of a kick in the nuts, but someone who gets things done for the best results even if it's harsh. I dont want to insult every person who doesnt do anything to warrent it, but if a thug, etc is in my way or has info I need, I shouldnt pay for it just cause I didnt want to spend 5mins listening to them ranble, etc. Or keeping the base if it turns out that was the only way to be prepared to fight the reapers in time and give us a great advantage. I dont want that only = base used against you = bad end, just because you were smart and kept it to collect useful info on the enemy. I hope their is bonus situations and good things that happen for chosing renegade at certain times.

Like: You fight someone that was a pain and instead of letting them live, you kill them and a building full of people lived and you get to gain new items or bonus conversations/story due to it. Some might not approve of what you did to save them, but it would only end in them dying if you chose paragon or some of them dying.

Modifié par aang001, 08 décembre 2011 - 06:44 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Flashflame58 wrote...

StrawberryViking wrote...
Just once I want a paragon decision to bite us in the ass. It's all I ask.

I assume you mean you want their ending to be a punishment of some sort. 
If this were to happen, all of the pure-paragon players would have a gigantic b*tch fit. No one wants that to happen.

citation needed.

[Dave of Canada]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

citation needed.

Considering how one guy flipped out when he heard a minor decision involving one character ended slightly bad, I don't think we'd survive a major decision going bad. I'd like to avoid it.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 08 décembre 2011 - 07:30 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

DiebytheSword wrote...

GodWood wrote...

I'm reminded of an A Song of Ice and Fire quote:

“Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely. And Rhaegar died. ”

Good for Rhaegar, he is remembered, how will you be remembered GodWood?

Being remembered is irrelevant.
The fate of my soul is irrelevant


Survival of humanity is relevant.

I shall quote the God-Emperor of Mankind:

“NOTHING THAT SAFEGUARDS HUMANITY CAN BE EVIL, NOT EVEN THE MOST
STRENUOUS INHUMANITY. IF THE HUMAN RACE FAILS, IT HAS FAILED FOREVER.”

You said:
I'm looking for ways that don't change who I am or what I am about.


To put my own ego, my own sense of self-worth above the needs of humanity as a whole...that is the essence of ego. I am irrelevant.
My idea of "worth" is irrelevant. Who am I do decide weather humantiy is worthy of surviving, if it doesn't hold up to my standards? Who am I to judge?
Who are you to judge?

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 08 décembre 2011 - 07:40 .

[OMTING52601]

I wouldn't say I play a balanced character, I usually end up with a full Paragon bar and two notches filled on the Renegade side. Mostly because some Renegade options make more sense to me, playing Shep, than the Paragon choices. In truth, I can understand why renegade players get so peeved. At the same time, a 'do whatever it takes and frack 'em all' attitude isn't going to win friends or influence enemies - besides making them gang up to off you. If you've shoved all those who stood in the way into the oncoming train, I don't understand how a player would expect to end up with people crying and tossing flowers and confetti all around as the renegade Shep struggles free from the wreckage. If you played the meany, fwiw, then you get the meany ending. At least, that's what it seems like to me.

If the dialogue options had been scored differently or if going renegade sometimes ticked off a 'best chioce' box somewhere in the story line, full renegade players might not feel like they are always getting the short end of the stick.

Then again, since I don't play strictly renegade, my opinion is probably worth little, lol.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

citation needed.

Considering how one guy flipped out when he heard a minor decision involving one character ended slightly bad, I don't think we'd survive a major decision going bad. I'd like to avoid it.

Yaaaaayy...and apocalypse of epic proprtions.

Let them rage. The grinding of their teeth and their muffled cries will be sweet music to my ears.

[Sgt Stryker]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

citation needed.

Considering how one guy flipped out when he heard a minor decision involving one character ended slightly bad, I don't think we'd survive a major decision going bad. I'd like to avoid it.

Ideally, one guy flipping out on a forum shouldn't have any influence on how Bioware makes their games. Ah, a guy can wish, can't he?

[Dave of Canada]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Ideally, one guy flipping out on a forum shouldn't have any influence on how Bioware makes their games. Ah, a guy can wish, can't he?

He flipped out but others had murmurs of agreement, considering how the leaks aren't widespread and how many people play Paragon I'd assume things would get far worse than just the lone guy.

[Seboist]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'd rather deal with Samara who's openly trying to kill me than Morinth who tries to do it with lies and manipulation.

Samara would have made a nice renegade enemy much like Zaeed would have for Paragon.

You know, come to think of it a non-recruited Garrus from ME1 could have ended up an enemy for Renegade if they didn't make the choices involving him in that game pointless due to fan pandering.

[ForteSJGR]

Not gonna lie, the Geth Decision is the only choice I see potentially biting me in the rear...

[Lotion Soronarr]

Medhia Nox wrote...
The Renegade seems unappealing to me - because it's "I'll sacrifice what I want." How hard is it to be selfish? Yeah - you know nobody is looking - and you know that the stories written about you will only speak of your victory - not the means by which you achieved it. 

The Paragon should suffer - in that I agree with Renegade players (though I despise any notion of fairness - I find it a purile request) - because unlike a Renegade who's willing to throw entire races at the Reapers - the Paragon, while trying to diminish how many races are thrown at the Reapers - must then sacrfice of his own "worth".

For another example - I think most Paragons are about the "journey" - while most Renegades are about the "ends justifying the means".

It is not about standing face to face with a Reaper and "dueling" - it is about what I do to others and myself to obtain victory. (at least - it is for a Paragon)

I see it more as "I'll sacrifice what I must" vs. "I'll sacrifice nothing, even if I risk loosing everything and dooming everyone".

Paragons way of thinking (at Sheps) is totally unappealing to me because it's so naive and ....for the lack of the better words - STUPID.

Of course, this just a general view - Paragon and renegade warry greatly from decision to decision. There's utterly idiotic Renegade decision, but those are mostly non-important ones (like punching the reporter)

[Lotion Soronarr]

DiebytheSword wrote...
Well said, and it captures the essence of what I was trying to say very well.  I am not willing to sacrifice who I am and my way of life for victory in the real world. 

I have no true fear of death, only what I leave behind when I'm gone.

And what exactly would that be, in the case of reaper invasion?
A meaty puddle by the side fo the road?

Who would care for your way of life and your death? No one.
What would be left? Nothing.
What was accomplished by your death? Nothing (except gratifying ones own ego).

[Seboist]

Rojahar wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'd rather deal with Samara who's openly trying to kill me than Morinth who tries to do it with lies and manipulation.

Samara would have made a nice renegade enemy much like Zaeed would have for Paragon.

You know, come to think of it a non-recruited Garrus from ME1 could have ended up an enemy for Renegade if they didn't make the choices involving him in that game pointless due to fan pandering.

I've found Samara's criticisms of Renegade Shep to be hypocritical and out of nowhere. Samara is a woman who runs around the galaxy murdering people mercilessly left and right just for looking at her the wrong way, and would unapologetically kill a cop for no good reason and no hesitation. I doubt most Renegade Sheps are anywhere near as unjustifiably bloodthirsty as Samara.

It's one of those things that wasn't properly thought out by the writers, much like Legion's moronic stance against using alien technology which would have made a victory against the Collectors impossible. Renegade Shepard does indeed do the same kinds of things as Samara like ruthlessly executing mercs like she did in her intro scene but the way she makes it seem is that renshep goes around shooting up malls or bombing elementary schools.

[Dave of Canada]

To be fair, that's how most of the forums view renegades.

[Seboist]

Rojahar wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Rojahar wrote...

I've found Samara's criticisms of Renegade Shep to be hypocritical and out of nowhere. Samara is a woman who runs around the galaxy murdering people mercilessly left and right just for looking at her the wrong way, and would unapologetically kill a cop for no good reason and no hesitation. I doubt most Renegade Sheps are anywhere near as unjustifiably bloodthirsty as Samara.

It's one of those things that wasn't properly thought out by the writers, much like Legion's moronic stance against using alien technology which would have made a victory against the Collectors impossible. Renegade Shepard does indeed do the same kinds of things as Samara like ruthlessly executing mercs like she did in her intro scene but the way she makes it seem is that renshep goes around shooting up malls or bombing elementary schools.

I was honestly surprised to Samara's comment about "Renegade" Shepard, the first time I played through on a Shepard who's Renegade meter was (slightly) higher than Paragon. The writing for the game is so lazy and binary, that it assumes if your Renegade meter is higher than Paragon, then you chose ALL the Renegade choices. Funny enough, I have a "Paragon" who chooses all the awful pschotic criminal choices, but is viewed as a saint by everyone. Remember, you aren't judged for your actions, but by labels you happen to fall under.

What else could one expect from a series where everything exists in the "Shepard bubble"?  One good example of this is that Shepard can tell the Quarian admirals to go to war and then rewrite the heretics and nobody notices anything fishy going on.

[Omega4RelayResident]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
 I am irrelevant.

You said it not I.

[Andorfiend]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I see it more as "I'll sacrifice what I must" vs. "I'll sacrifice nothing, even if I risk loosing everything and dooming everyone".

Paragons way of thinking (at Sheps) is totally unappealing to me because it's so naive and ....for the lack of the better words - STUPID.

Of course, this just a general view - Paragon and renegade warry greatly from decision to decision. There's utterly idiotic Renegade decision, but those are mostly non-important ones (like punching the reporter)

And here I disagree. There are some stupid "paragon" decisions. E.G: Letting Balak go to save a woman who was willing to sacrifice her own brother to stop Balak, thereby dishonoring her own morals and sacrifice and letting a would be terrorist mass murderer loose into the galaxy.

Or stopping Jack from killing a psychotic who wanted to systematically torture children.

But on the whole the "I do what I must" renegade decisions are the kind of thing that sound good, if you have absolutely no appreciation for history or ability to learn from the past.  The most obvious example of this is the collector base.

You can preserve it for TIM, except that:
A) Cerberus has never done anything in their history that does not come back to bite them in the ass. Including Project Lazarus.

TIM can't be trusted. He spends the entire game betraying you, in stupid and counter-productive ways that show that he trusts you less than a rabid Krogan.

C) No Cerberus project has ever researched Reaper tech and not been indoctrinated. It happens over and over again. They have the worst lab safety record in the history of mad science.