1768 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

Okay, when you kill people off and whine about no cameos or whatever, you have no-one to blame but yourself.

Oh, and inconsistency in dialogues isn't Renegade exclusive if you think that.

[marshalleck]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Okay, when you kill people off and whine about no cameos or whatever, you have no-one to blame but yourself.

Nonsense. When Paragons save the Rachni Queen in ME1, they don't talk to the Queen in ME2. They talk to a representative. Why can't Renegades have some sort of follow-up and acknowledgement of their decisions from earlier games?

Typically it goes like this:

Make paragon decision in ME1, get follow up in ME2
Make renegade decision in ME1, get endless black void of nothing as if it never happened.

Modifié par marshalleck, 06 juillet 2011 - 02:52 .

[Dave of Canada]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Okay, when you kill people off and whine about no cameos or whatever, you have no-one to blame but yourself.

You do realize that when you kill somebody that people in the galaxy shouldn't suddenly forget that person existed?You've killed somebody, that should impact something.

Dark Side in KOTOR / Closed Fist in Jade Empire / the "kill people" decisions in DAO impacted something, I killed random people and you know what? I met the lovers, friends and family of the people I've killed! The other crime lords trying to take their place! The people who are glad they are gone!

It isn't hard to create cameos for Renegade, don't act like it's hard and it shouldn't exist.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 06 juillet 2011 - 02:55 .

[Seboist]

marshalleck wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Okay, when you kill people off and whine about no cameos or whatever, you have no-one to blame but yourself.

Nonsense. When Paragons save the Rachni Queen in ME1, they don't talk to the Queen in ME2. They talk to a representative. Why can't Renegades have some sort of follow-up and acknowledgement of their decisions from earlier games?

Typically it goes like this:

Make paragon decision in ME1, get follow up in ME2
Make renegade decision in ME1, get endless black void of nothing as if it never happened.

One weird thing about the Rachni Queen decision is how Wrex completely forgets about it and how the Krogans don't care one way or another about it but Okeer, Wreav and Wrex talk about how Krograns are pissed over Shepard destroying Saren's cloning facility. Something doesn't quite add up here.

[Ryzaki]

Why do the renegades not get cameos. Most of the time because the people you killed don't have people who give a damn (Balak on the other hand is in desperate need of a cameo if killed.) why should you get a cameo for killing the Rachni Queen? Noveria is made of slime and the people who knew she was there are either dead or not stupid enough to mention it.

Killing that chick on Virmire doesn't give you a cameo because everyone there is DEAD there's no strings to catch up on.

Who other than Balak does it really make sense for their to be a cameo for if killed?

[yfullman]

Don't worry too much. I'm sure not killing the geth will screw the paragon over

[Dave of Canada]

Ryzaki wrote...

why should you get a cameo for killing the Rachni Queen?

Because (some of) the information was made public and Shepard's involvement played a part in it, people should really go "Oh hey, thanks for killing the "cloned" Rachni" and the Krogan should possibly be pleased that Shepard didn't let them live. 

Killing that chick on Virmire doesn't give you a cameo because everyone there is DEAD there's no strings to catch up on.

She provided more exposition into the cloned Krogan and why they were being done, exposition that doesn't exist for the Renegade. Simply adding a computer there or something that fills the Renegade in with the same information would've been nice instead of leaving them lacking with information.

Who other than Balak does it really make sense for their to be a cameo for if killed?

To name a few to fill in ME2's cameos:
Fist's death resulting in crime lords finding his files and restarting his thing, the (new) Council shows up instead of not seeing you for no reason, Anolais / Lorick Quinn if Parasini died talking about the status of Noveria, Liz Bayham shows up (instead of nameless colonist) if Shiala is killed to talk about Feros/Earth, ect.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 06 juillet 2011 - 03:09 .

[Icinix]

I don't want any decisions made for either Renegade or Paragon to come back to bite you in the arse.

That would suck

Edit: And also probably elicit the largrest return to earlier game saves for metagaming action of all time.

Modifié par Icinix, 06 juillet 2011 - 03:07 .

[Seboist]

Ryzaki wrote...

Why do the renegades not get cameos. Most of the time because the people you killed don't have people who give a damn (Balak on the other hand is in desperate need of a cameo if killed.) why should you get a cameo for killing the Rachni Queen? Noveria is made of slime and the people who knew she was there are either dead or not stupid enough to mention it.

Killing that chick on Virmire doesn't give you a cameo because everyone there is DEAD there's no strings to catch up on.

Who other than Balak does it really make sense for their to be a cameo for if killed?

There's plenty of logical replacement cameos/references that could have been added.

At the top of my head;

Shiala dead? Liz or Juliana Baynham
Council dead? Human council
Gianna dead or her side quest not done? Mutsou,Lorik Quin or Anoleis.
Fist and/or Helena Blake dead? A simple news report or mention that either crime has gone down or other criminals have taken their place would have sufficed.
Rana Thanoptis dead? Either a data pad lying around or some new NPC assistant for Okeer.
Rachni Queen dead? Either a praise from Wrex/Wreav or some other Krogran(s) for honoring the sacrifice of their ancestors. That or Zev Cohen or Han Olar showing up.

There's simply no reason for any of this when they've created a character like Urdnot "My sole purpose in life is to replace my brother" Wreav to replace Wrex. It's just empty void of nothing like these events never happened.

[Someone With Mass]

Dave of Canada wrote...

You do realize that when you kill somebody that people in the galaxy shouldn't suddenly forget that person existed?You've killed somebody, that should impact something.

Dark Side in KOTOR / Closed Fist in Jade Empire / the "kill people" decisions in DAO impacted something, I killed random people and you know what? I met the lovers, friends and family of the people I've killed! The other crime lords trying to take their place! The people who are glad they are gone!

It isn't hard to create cameos for Renegade, don't act like it's hard and it shouldn't exist.

It's called "Dealing with it and moving on with your life".

Perhaps I should dedicate a moment in ME3 for literally every enemy I've killed so far too.

[Ryzaki]

Dave of Canada wrote...
Because (some of) the information was made public and Shepard's involvement played a part in it, people should really go "Oh hey, thanks for killing the "cloned" Rachni" and the Krogan should possibly be pleased that Shepard didn't let them live.

And who pray tell would know about the Rachni and thank Shepard? As far as Binary Helix is concerned (or whoever itwas) they know nothing about it and there was nothing there. And that additional cameo would need to apply for a Shepard who saved them as well. (if someone is gonna thank Shep, someone else is gonna want to curse Shep out. Which frankly I'm in favor of). 

That bit wasn't made public last I check. (thus why the whole rachni ship profiles doesn't have the people at large pointing fingers at Shep). 

She provided more exposition into the cloned Krogan and why they were being done, exposition that doesn't exist for the Renegade. Simply adding a computer there or something that fills the Renegade in with the same information would've been nice instead of leaving them lacking with information.

Um...I recall getting that information from Okeer. It's not hard to pierce together. (I usually kill her paragon or no). It's not vital information in the least. It's window dressing. No different than paragon never learning about the alliance's backyard deal with Danarius. 

To name a few to fill in ME2's cameos: Fist's death resulting in crime lords finding his files and restarting his thing, the (new) Council shows up instead of not seeing you for no reason, Anolais / Lorick Quinn if Parasini died talking about the status of Noveria, Liz Bayham shows up (instead of nameless colonist) if Shiala is killed to talk about Feros/Earth, ect.

What thing did Fist have? Why would they come to shepard about it? Killing fist increasing crime sounds wasteful. Why does this not happen if he leaves? 

New Council should've been seen I agree. 

Why would Anolais and Lorick be on Illium? Why would Anolais greasy ass bother talking with Shepard (who may no longer be a Spectre) in the first place?  

Liz Bayham should've shown up that's true (but frankly she should've shown up regardless instead of Shiala). 

Edit: That said I have no issue with Renegades getting cameos. (and frankly they did provided they met the requirements for said cameo). I'd prefer if paragon and renegade got pretty equal treatment in everything. No more renegades can kill 5 enemies will paragons have to waste bullets. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 juillet 2011 - 03:34 .

[Massadonious1]

Jebel Krong wrote...
which is why good people only win in fiction.

http://en.wikipedia....alvatore_Guinta

[Raiil]

And who pray tell would know about the Rachni and thank Shepard?

...everyone who survived Noveria? There were a lot of other people there. You can get an email from Han Olar but it doesn't talk about the rachni.

Why would Anolais and Lorick be on Illium? Why would Anolais greasy ass bother talking with Shepard (who may no longer be a Spectre) in the first place?

Trade deal with Illium, being sent to deal with the same issue Gianna was- if Shepard helped them out once, why not twice?

[ApplesauceBandit]

You could always play as a Renegon or Paragade.

[Aquilas]

Several people have commented on the Santayana quotation in my first post. Here's the contextual passage: Santayana on Progress

I'm not going to debate whether or not I understand Santayana's philosophy, or whether he was right or wrong. Please read the quotation and apply the concepts to this discussion.

Consider ideas often presented in threads like this one. Are Paragons childishly naive? Is their belief in the intrinsic goodness of beings instinctual, is it based on experience, or a combination of both? Do Renegades miss opportunities to grow by being overly focused on consecutiveness and persistence?  Are they blinded by pragmatism?

Please note that I'm simplifying greatly; I realize there are many nuances to consider when discussing Paragon and Renegade motivations, beliefs, and codes. 

Understand that I play Paragons, Renegades, Renegons, and Paragades. To be clear, I want Paragons, Renegades and hybrids thereof to pay for their decisions. All must pay a cost for their decisions and the consequences.

*Edited for mispelling and clarity.

Modifié par Aquilas, 06 juillet 2011 - 10:07 .

[Ryzaki]

Valentia X wrote...

...everyone who survived Noveria? There were a lot of other people there. You can get an email from Han Olar but it doesn't talk about the rachni.

And they magically know he killed the Rachni? Any thank you letter would need to apply for both saving/killing the Rachni. Shep blows up the hotlabs regardless and no other people were on his floor (he/she might also have killed everyone.) 

Trade deal with Illium, being sent to deal with the same issue Gianna was- if Shepard helped them out once, why not twice?

Why would presidents of companies be doing Gianna's job.  Maybe a representive for both for them but themselves? ...no. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 juillet 2011 - 03:41 .

[Dave of Canada]

Ryzaki wrote...

And who pray tell would know about the Rachni and thank Shepard?

News report if you've killed the Rachni suggests that the Noveria research was released pubically as "cloned" Rachni and it's been handled (by Shepard), anybody in the galaxy (from pro-Rachni protesters or whatever) could have filled the role of cameo but having a Krogan thank Shepard for it would be nice and could tie into positives of the Rachni decision. Paragons could get scolded for it by the same Krogan (for example), though still keep the Rachni Queen cameo for the "positive" of the decision. Both sides get their own thing.

That's all I can write, mobile is getting poor reception and I'm not sure it'll go through.

[Ryzaki]

Dave of Canada wrote...

News report if you've killed the Rachni suggests that the Noveria research was released pubically as "cloned" Rachni and it's been handled (by Shepard), anybody in the galaxy (from pro-Rachni protesters or whatever) could have filled the role of cameo but having a Krogan thank Shepard for it would be nice and could tie into positives of the Rachni decision. Paragons could get scolded for it by the same Krogan (for example), though still keep the Rachni Queen cameo for the "positive" of the decision. Both sides get their own thing.

That's all I can write, mobile is getting poor reception and I'm not sure it'll go through.

 

Oh that I wouldn't have an issue with. (someone should've been freaking about those rachni ship profiles for paragon Shep). 

Though to be frank I'm tired of renegades getting easier fights than paragons (airship battle, blowing up the caniester on Miranda's loyalty mission) something similar should apply for paragons as well. (maybe paragon Shep talks a few of the mercs into running away so they can live or something). 

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...
I have a better idea: purchase an imagination and stop being a boring git.

Nobody here is asking for anything unreasonable. If you think otherwise then you have no sense of good game design.

If I want good game design, I sure as hell wouldn't ask anyone on this forum. I'd rather ask someone who works at BioWare and actually knows what they're talking about.

And asking the game to rub your ego just because you did something you know the consequences/outcome of? Kind of sad and pathetic.

I can manage just fine without everyone reminding me about what a great job I did at a certain point. I know I made a great job.

[Raiil]

Ryzaki wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

...everyone who survived Noveria? There were a lot of other people there. You can get an email from Han Olar but it doesn't talk about the rachni.

And they magically know he killed the Rachni? Any thank you letter would need to apply for both saving/killing the Rachni. Shep blows up the hotlabs regardless and no other people were on his floor (he/she might also have killed everyone.) 

Trade deal with Illium, being sent to deal with the same issue Gianna was- if Shepard helped them out once, why not twice?

Why would presidents of companies be doing Gianna's job.  Maybe a representive for both for them but themselves? ...no. 

I can see the potential issue, but if one of Garrus's dead squaddie's wife can somehow learn that Garrus is alive and well on the Normandy and under Shepard's command without there being any sign as to how she knows that when Omega in general believes that Archangel is dead, a scientist from the Hot Labs can poke around and notice that the Queen is gone and not just lying dead. Acid vat hasn't been used, no body, etc.

As for the president issue, I see your point, and I'd be cool with the representative as well. 

[Massadonious1]

"So, you killed the Rachni, eh?"

"Yes"

"Well, thanks for that"

"Uh, yeah, thank you for noticing. I....should go."

[Ryzaki]

Valentia X wrote...
I can see the potential issue, but if one of Garrus's dead squaddie's wife can somehow learn that Garrus is alive and well on the Normandy and under Shepard's command without there being any sign as to how she knows that when Omega in general believes that Archangel is dead, a scientist from the Hot Labs can poke around and notice that the Queen is gone and not just lying dead. Acid vat hasn't been used, no body, etc.

As for the president issue, I see your point, and I'd be cool with the representative as well. 

 

Well as long as they b**** at Shepard for letting her go they can congratulate him for setting her free. 

Representive would've bene awesome. Gianni still shows up with I helped Lorik so getting 2 cameos for the price of one would be awesome. 

I love being Paragade. 

[Raiil]

Ryzaki wrote...

Valentia X wrote...
I can see the potential issue, but if one of Garrus's dead squaddie's wife can somehow learn that Garrus is alive and well on the Normandy and under Shepard's command without there being any sign as to how she knows that when Omega in general believes that Archangel is dead, a scientist from the Hot Labs can poke around and notice that the Queen is gone and not just lying dead. Acid vat hasn't been used, no body, etc.

As for the president issue, I see your point, and I'd be cool with the representative as well. 

 

Well as long as they b**** at Shepard for letting her go they can congratulate him for setting her free. 

Representive would've bene awesome. Gianni still shows up with I helped Lorik so getting 2 cameos for the price of one would be awesome. 

I love being Paragade. 

I'm not voting for all cameos to be 'Shepard, you're awesome!', and honestly in a lot of these situations, I'd be totally cool with an email about the whole matter.

A lot of this really doesn't affect me all that much- I'm a total renegon but most of my big decisions are paragon, so I don't miss content. I just want some renegade options to be lauded after the fact, a few cameos (regardless of whether I get them or not, tbh) and maybe some emails. And I would like some paragon decisions to end up being a 'way to break it, hero' moments.

ETA: I just saw your banner and I think I'm going to die laughing.

Modifié par Valentia X, 06 juillet 2011 - 04:00 .