25 réponses à ce sujet

[Axe_Murderer]

Might as well kick things off here with a complaint lol. I said it before and I'll say just one more time...every change made using the toolset, no matter what it is, is by definition a customization. Every change made, no matter what it is, involves game content. Therefore Custom Content refers to any change made to the game using the toolset. I could not imagine coming up with a better term that encompasses everything the toolset does better than Custom Content does. Thus, it is far too general a term to use as a partition for only some portion of the toolset functionaltiy. People will be confused and post things here that belong elsewhere. Half the posts will be sending people to other subforums. Not that I really care but it just makes some things more annoying than they need to be.

I'll shut up now. You guys know my opinion on this one...


Maybe it would be constructive to put a sticky topic at the top of every sub-forum that simply states what topics the forum should be restricted to. Perhaps a common shared sticky appearing in every sub-forum that outlines them all. Nothing fancy just a statement or two for each subforum for a little additional clarification...

    "This forum is for discussing Audio and Music creation and manipulation using the DA Toolset.
     If you want to discuss building areas and levels, please use the Area & Level Creation subforum.
     If you have a scripting question, please use the scripting subforum.
     If you have a question about 2DA modification, creating new 3D models, visual effects, blah blah,
         please use the very poorly named Custom Content subforum.
     etc..."

Modifié par Axe_Murderer, 20 novembre 2009 - 09:11 .

[maikanix]

I agree. We're supposed to "ask questions" but apparently not questions related to scripting, or audio, or level and area construction, and it's certainly not 'general' discussion, and it's not for our project announcement. So I'm a little unsure as to what it's for, exactly.

[Wybourne]

I guess it replaces the general forum, as I can't post on that forum anymore? So now, we get to have everyone move all their old threads to this one subforum...

[Languard]

I would guess the focus is on models and textures that can be used with the tutorial and other 'content' not covered by the other forums.

[Kunikos]

Post whatever wherever, and moderators will move it. You'll figure out what they prefer eventually.

[Astorax]

*sigh* thank you Axe.



*slaps him into next week*



Yes, I understand that the name of the forum isn't very specific, and I'm working on it...but trying to coordinate with the Biodudes while they're working on forum functionality on things like, renaming a forum title is difficult when I'm not in their offices to go walk down the hall and talk to people. I get to use the same tools you do...PMs on the forums. So a little patience.



I'm working on putting stickies in each of the new forums to try to steer what belongs where. It's a process, and there will be bumps and skips while we all settle into our new home. Patience people!



As for what goes in here, I'll be posting a sticky soon.

[Axe_Murderer]

Fair enough. Didn't realize. etc.



They should know now heh. I'm sure they got more important stuff to worry about right now anyway.

[Cat Lance]

Custom Content made me think of specific things, but things made outside the toolset and then imported in. That's just me though and I don't even know if I'm correct, but that's what I thought of... *wanders off to continue looking around*

[Astorax]

Yes Cat, that is what I'm attempting to convey.



I'm currently trying to aim the new title at Community Created Assets to make that a tad clearer that we're talking about stuff that we the community are making.

[Cat Lance]

that sounds good to me as well. It's more specific for those who wanted clarification

[ablaine]

Even just Custom Assets or Custom Asset Creation would work well imo.

[nix3r]

'custom resources'?



'community created' just sounds weird.

[Astorax]

Well, lemme ask those of you here not Axe... Does Custom Content confuse any of you or is it pretty clear what we're talking about?



More I think about it, more I realize that it's really only Axe_Murderer that seems to be hating on the Custom Content.

[Cat Lance]

I am fine with it and I really don't think it's going to be a big deal for those that don't immediately get it the first time they see "Custom Content" to click on the forum or read the forum description to find out.

[maikanix]

Frankly I still don't know what you're talking about.

and I'm new to the modding world..so



community created assets also makes no sense.

what exactly is meant by 'assets'? audio made outside the toolset and imported in wouldn't be considered 'assets'? It's just too vague, esp with all the other categories.



I really feel retarded now >< but it must be said, me-thinks.

[Cat Lance]

@maikanix, But wouldn't that be easily cleared up by reading the forum description that's just under the name?

[SoopaMan]

Like I said in the other post, Astorax, Custom Content sounds fine to me, but thats because I'm used to it from the NWN forums.I know what the title means already because I have a preconcieved notion about what it means.

I think its harder to define in this case because anything created with the new toolset can be construed as 'custom content'. Art is too specific, and again, toolset levels/areas can be considered 'art'.

Maybe "Exterior" Custom Content or "Exterior" Community Created Assests would be a better clarification to mean stuff that is created for the toolset but not within it. Actually, the word exterior could be confused with meaning stuff for exterior, or outdoors areas. Perhaps: Extraneous Community Created Content?

Modifié par SoopaMan, 21 novembre 2009 - 09:51 .

[maikanix]

Cat Lance wrote...

@maikanix, But wouldn't that be easily cleared up by reading the forum description that's just under the name?

oh you mean THIS little number?
"This forum is for creators of custom content to ask questions and discuss their work. You must be a registered game owner to post here."

I'll admit, it does clear up the fact that I have to be registered - thank god I got that cleared up. Other than that, repeating the title in the description doesn't help at all. 

And soopaman seems to be getting at the problem. i was never involved in the NWN forums.

The 'what goes in this forum' discussion also clears some stuff up. meaning the clarification that the audio forum is a lie. Now that that's gone I think it's a little clearer. Since I saw audio, and thought "wait, they can't mean custom content because audio is custom content and they have an audio forum, so WHAT do they mean?"

Modifié par maikanix, 21 novembre 2009 - 10:04 .

[Cat Lance]

@maikanix, so wouldn't the remedy be to have a better explanation?

"This forum is for creators of content outside of that provided within the toolset, such as new models, placeables, animations, 2da's and the like to ask questions and discuss their work. You must be a registered game owner to post here."

What I have there is a bit long winded, I'm sure someone else can do a better job, but better the explanation beneath the name be long winded than the name itself?

SoopaMan wrote...

Maybe "Exterior" Custom Content or
"Exterior" Community Created Assests would be a better clarification to
mean stuff that is created for the toolset but not within it. Actually,
the word exterior could be confused with meaning stuff for exterior, or
outdoors areas. Perhaps: Extraneous Community Created Content?

Exterior makes me think of level editing and that whole set of exterior/interior ness...but that might just be me.

What about Importable Custom Content?? Ick that's clunky

Modifié par Cat Lance, 21 novembre 2009 - 10:21 .

[maikanix]

Cat Lance wrote...

@maikanix, so wouldn't the remedy be to have a better explanation?

so wouldn't the remedy be to remove the audio forum to stop the confusion?

honestly now YOU'RE confusing me more than anything.

In a world where they were keeping the audio forum, however, since that's where we're living, the solution that would be best, and therefore BETTER would be to change BOTH.

le sigh. sleep now.

Modifié par maikanix, 21 novembre 2009 - 10:35 .

[Cat Lance]

@maikanix, *pets* sorry, I didn't mean to confuse. There was talk in another thread about Custom Content eating the Audio forum unless it ended up needing it's own. I think it originally got it's own forum because the voice actors have been so amazingly organized and whatnot, that it just caught people's attention.

[E.C.Patterson]

"Custom content" seldom created confusion in NWN2. But "Custom Assets" or "Custom Resources" could work too, though they sound less familiar than Custom Content.

It should be a forum primarily about making content for the game that is produced with an application other than the toolset (models etc.) and about bringing this content into the game (2das etc.). Anything produced with the TS (VFX, item blueprints, head morphs etc.) should belong in one of the other forums. But it won't be too dramatic if a topic strays once in a while .

Modifié par E.C.Patterson, 21 novembre 2009 - 04:35 .

[Axe_Murderer]

Just for the record I don't hate Custom Content. All I'm saying is that, based on what I saw in the old forums, the term is so general that it confuses some people into posting in the wrong place. They don't know what custom content is so they post their 2da questions in the builders or scripting forum. They think painting a crate down is custom content (since it is) so they post their toolset question there, etc. As a result there were an awful lot of posts in all the forums that ended up just being a redirect to some other forum, which is annoying to sift through when you are trying to find a solution.

Whatever you name it will be fine with me. For all I care you can call it Itchy Butthair Picking it won't confuse me. I hoped things would start out broken up and organized better so as to reduce the problems seen with the old forums -- which for the record were not that bad anyway. I know what belongs there and no doubt a majority will have no difficulties. IMO Custom Content is marginally better than Itchy Butthair Pickers, both are about equally specific, both would produce about the same result.

My philosophy appears to differ from Bio's so my ideas probably don't apply that well. After mulling things over I've changed my mind and no longer think it is such a great idea to watch the traffic first and split things off later. In the long run, I think it would work out better if you lay out a good organizational structure early and merge things later should they turn out to be dead. I don't understand the resistance to add more subforums. Doesn't seem to me that it makes things any more difficult to manage if you add the two or three more that would be necessary to better organize it. Just saying how I'd do it that's all, you can take or leave it.
 
Frankly I think there is too much grouped into this partition and that's the main reason it's hard to figure out what goes here. Putting Audio, Modelling, and 2DAs on their own makes a lot more sense to me even if the forums don't end up being that busy. But the desire seems to be to minimize the number of forums as much as possible so my opinion is that you're going to end up with the same redirection problems due to that decision. It isn't a huge deal, it's just a minor annoyance and one I think could easily be mitigated now rather than later. If I'm the only one thinking this way then feel free to ignore me -- I can't be offended. I may come back some day and poke you with it is all.

Modifié par Axe_Murderer, 21 novembre 2009 - 04:52 .

[Astorax]

The main problem with splitting things off a lot and merging later is that merging forums is very rough...it involves a lot of work on our part because we need to move all the threads, etc. It also created sluggish forums.



For example, look at the Audio forum. It's had one post in 20 hours, with no responses to the post.

[Axe_Murderer]

Granted, but I don't think people are that far along yet either. That's a bad example to point to right now because it's still too early to tell I think. Audio comes later I would expect, so that forum isn't likely to get busy until some people have projects going with modules, levels, convos, and cutscenes that need sound and start having to learn that end of it. I expect audio to be last on most people's list of things to do. You may very well be correct but I think you're jumping the gun a little on the audio forum. Nobody answered the guy because nobody is toying with that yet. Split the modelling or 2DA stuff off on its own and you'll see a very different situation I bet. As for effort, is it not equally hard to split off when one gets too busy and you have to sort through all the posts to move them into the right place? I don't know, just asking cuz it seems pertainent.

Also I don't think "a lot" of splitting is necessary, just one or maybe two more would do the job better -- in my opinion. Then you could just call what's left over Other Toolset Topics which would make a lot more sense to everyone since it would only cover the more obscure things like 3rd party tool dev. I suggest a new Art one for modelling, texturing, vfx stuff and a 2da specific one, leave audio up there (or maybe fold it into Other Topics), and that would do it in my book. Personally I can't forsee either an Artwork or a 2da specific forum ever needing to get folded up and merged with anything...can you?

Modifié par Axe_Murderer, 21 novembre 2009 - 07:18 .