808 réponses à ce sujet

[habitat 67]

marshalleck wrote...

Pfft. Where's the outrage over Vega's fauxhawk? That's probably the most egregious design concept of any of these characters.

I am very upset.

[TheKillerAngel]

Eromenos wrote...

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

This is getting beyond absurd. Do the people who have problems with Ashley's outfit have to express so much contempt for everyone else. Some people have laid out very clear reasons why they don't like it. Some people are concerned about the treatment of her character and I can understand and appreciate that.

However some people are coming in here on their pedestal. They sit here and preach about how they know what's best for not only Ashley's character, but for all women. That is unfair and narrow minded. The measure of an individual is their actions, not their clothes. If you have ever refused to take someone seriously because of their clothing then you are only looking at a shallow portion of what makes an individual. You all have no idea how Ashley will act in Mass Effect 3. She could very well be the same person who we all know. You are going around bashing this as if it will somehow shake the core of her character. I don't know this for sure, and no I have no evidence to back this up but I firmly believe she will still be the same. She will still have strong opinions and stick by her moral code.

As for the people who don't believe the tweets about Ashley's armor, please take a couple of days to cool down and wait for some evidence. I understand skepticism but to outright call them liars is unfair and rude to the people who make the series you claim to be fans of.

It's all so silly, and please for the people who are annoyed by all the complaints from these people don't flame them. Just enjoy the news and be happy about it, their complaints and occasional vitriol should not color your enthusiasm about Mass Effect 3 news. Now can we all attempt to return to more civil grounds before this argument gets way too out of hand.

Please explain; what good comes from targeting women to be sole blatant sex-symbols at the cost of rendering them into hourglasses who have the sci-fi equivalent of chain-mail bikinis while they're supposed to be running and gunning to the death? Who benefits here?

You are completely misrepresenting that person's perspective. Ashley's outfit is NOT the "sci-fi equivalent of a chain mail bikini."

[Obvakhi]

Slidell505 wrote...

Obvakhi wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...




I never get tired of that image

You're right...  Science Fiction. Everything is fiction, including the codex.
And I don't know why you keep posting that image. Nobody cares... if you like it so much then go play Halo.

Someone makes a a decent post, that makes a point, the point being you can make female armor look good, and look effective, and you shoot it down because it's Halo related. Awesome.

Then post all the damn images you want if it makes you feel better.... it's not gonna change anything.

Modifié par Obvakhi, 06 juillet 2011 - 01:29 .

[crimzontearz]

speaking of selection screen....what are the chances of us having a DAO-like selection screen?..I need to make a thread about it

[Chuvvy]

habitat 67 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Pfft. Where's the outrage over Vega's fauxhawk? That's probably the most egregious design concept of any of these characters.

I am very upset.

Focus testing: the character.

[TheKillerAngel]

Siansonea II wrote...

By the way, I tried my hand at a new outfit for Ashley, and I decided to give her blonde hair, just for variety. I think this could work for most combat situations, and maybe also for aboard the Normandy:



Is she too covered up? I can accept criticism, so feel free to give feedback, this is a work-in-progress...[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

That's a straw man argument and you should reconsider how you deliver your point. Few, if any people, saying Ashley should be wearing a space-bikini, but you are mischaracterizing your opposition's majority views as such.

Eromenos wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

As for Liara, they should do away with trying to justify the ME2 "armor headband." And aim to recolor her outfit so that it doesn't try to riduculously emphasize her femininity. We can appreciate her curves just fine with the way her white labcoat is done. Tasteful. This red-version is not.

Okay, how exactly does the color scheme of Liara's armor suddenly make it exploitive?

Fair question!

The way her white labcoat is presented does not oversell the fact that she's female with an hourglass figure. The way her red labcoat's coloring is arranged is done precisely to emphasize that she's an hourglass who may or may not use guns.

With the way the colors are arrayed on her in this picture, do we ever see male combat outfits being depicted in this way that emphasizes the sexuality of their bodies above all else? Nope. So why should female characters alone be targeted for this thankless responsibility that thus far segregates them into titillation-toys?

I disagree with you. First, on your assessment that Liara's outfit is excessively sexual - I don't think the color contrast really made me think that. Maybe it did for you, but I, and I am sure many other guys, would just see it as a purple/red outfit and nothing more.

More importantly, I disagree with your assessment that male combat outfits don't emphasize their physical/sexual masculinity. Ways of expressing sexual attraction in male characters are not nearly as obvious as for women but they are almost certainly present in so many games. The reason men don't complain about their consistent depiction in media as hypermasculine, handsome heroes with epic shoulders is that they generally enjoy being able to take on such roles. Guys don't want to play as 45 year old Joe with graying hair and a slight beer belly.

I must establish that what is physically attractive for women cannot just be assumed as the same for men. Just making a man really scantily clad isn't necessarily going to make him more attractive because for the average woman, intangible factors such as prestige, personality, and power matter a lot more than just raw physical appearance. 

For one, practically every male character has an ideal figure - narrow waist, broad shoulders, and often, their armor emphasizes or exaggerates the size of their shoulders while minimizing the waist to give a "V-shaped" appearance. This is why Jacob has "armor" on his shoulders and Shepard's ME3 armor is like this:



There is no good reason for his shoulderplates to be bulging out like that and plated up so much, if not to emphasize his masculinity. Compare that to the armor on his waist/torso, which is rather minimized, yet far more important. In the military you are taught to aim at center of mass, and issued body armor places the most protection on the torso. It's where your vital organs are - not your shoulders, and is thus far more deserving of heavy protection.

Heck, a lot of infantry aren't even issued shoulder armor.

Realistically, shoulder armor like that would impair movement significantly, not to mention to extra weight added. There is a video of Holly Conrad testing out her Shepard outfit and she comments about how she cannot move her arms that easily.

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 06 juillet 2011 - 01:23 .

[marshalleck]

Slidell505 wrote...

habitat 67 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Pfft. Where's the outrage over Vega's fauxhawk? That's probably the most egregious design concept of any of these characters.

I am very upset.

Focus testing: the character.

Ouch, lol. You nailed it. :happy:

Who's the first guy there? Obviously I recognize Halo, he's a pretty cool guy.

[TheKillerAngel]

I'm pretty sure the first character in that series is from Killzone. Don't recall the name.

[Welsh Inferno]

Reserve judgement for Vega until we know more. I can't wait to chat to him on he normandy personally.

[littlezack]

 You know, it's funny - I could have sworn there were other things about Mass Effect 3 besides Ashely's outfit. I mean, really now - debate about defeating the Reapers, RPG vs. Shooters, choice outcomes...all the stuff we could be talking about, and this is the #1 topic on the forum?

[crimzontearz]

littlezack wrote...

 You know, it's funny - I could have sworn there were other things about Mass Effect 3 besides Ashely's outfit. I mean, really now - debate about defeating the Reapers, RPG vs. Shooters, choice outcomes...all the stuff we could be talking about, and this is the #1 topic on the forum?

wait until people get more info about Tali

[Uzzy]

marshalleck wrote...
Ouch, lol. You nailed it. :happy:

Who's the first guy there? Obviously I recognize Halo, he's a pretty cool guy.

That's John 'Soap' Mactavish, from Modern Warfare.

Anyway, there's an improved Vega out already. For tha Emprah!

[Siansonea]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

By the way, I tried my hand at a new outfit for Ashley, and I decided to give her blonde hair, just for variety. I think this could work for most combat situations, and maybe also for aboard the Normandy:
*self photo snip*
Is she too covered up? I can accept criticism, so feel free to give feedback, this is a work-in-progress...[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

That's a straw man argument and you should reconsider how you deliver your point. Few, if any people, saying Ashley should be wearing a space-bikini, but you are mischaracterizing your opposition's majority views as such.

I believe it's a straw WOMAN argument, thank you very much. And if you don't like my drawing, you can just say so.

Eromenos wrote...
*snip*

I disagree with you. First, on your assessment that Liara's outfit is excessively sexual - I don't think the color contrast really made me think that. Maybe it did for you, but I, and I am sure many other guys, would just see it as a purple/red outfit and nothing more.

More importantly, I disagree with your assessment that male combat outfits don't emphasize their physical/sexual masculinity. Ways of expressing sexual attraction in male characters are not nearly as obvious as for women but they are almost certainly present in so many games. The reason men don't complain about their consistent depiction in media as hypermasculine, handsome heroes with epic shoulders is that they generally enjoy being able to take on such roles. Guys don't want to play as 45 year old Joe with graying hair and a slight beer belly.

I must establish that what is physically attractive for women cannot just be assumed as the same for men. Just making a man really scantily clad isn't necessarily going to make him more attractive because for the average woman, intangible factors such as prestige, personality, and power matter a lot more than just raw physical appearance. 

For one, practically every male character has an ideal figure - narrow waist, broad shoulders, and often, their armor emphasizes or exaggerates the size of their shoulders while minimizing the waist to give a "V-shaped" appearance. This is why Jacob has "armor" on his shoulders and Shepard's ME3 armor is like this:



There is no good reason for his shoulderplates to be bulging out like that and plated up so much, if not to emphasize his masculinity. Compare that to the armor on his waist/torso, which is rather minimized, yet far more important. In the military you are taught to aim at center of mass, and issued body armor places the most protection on the torso. It's where your vital organs are - not your shoulders, and is thus far more deserving of heavy protection.

Heck, a lot of infantry aren't even issued shoulder armor.

Realistically, shoulder armor like that would impair movement significantly, not to mention to extra weight added. There is a video of Holly Conrad testing out her Shepard outfit and she comments about how she cannot move her arms that easily.

To be fair, the masculine version of sexualization is not aimed primarily at women, it's aimed at men. Shepard is buffed out so that men can project onto him as him, not see his as a sex object. Most women I know think Sheploo looks like a doofus, for what it's worth, and so do I.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 06 juillet 2011 - 01:37 .

[shepskisaac]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

I'm pretty sure the first character in that series is from Killzone. Don't recall the name.

There's a character like that in Gears and COD as well, they all look they same so no wonder we're not even sure who are we looking at.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 06 juillet 2011 - 01:41 .

[Siansonea]

Am I the only one who thinks James Vega would sound like Bart Simpson?

[Someone With Mass]

To be quite frank, this whole thing about appealing to the masses by turning all the females into walking ho-bags is a little pathetic.

All I think of when I see them like that is: "I can see where the time was spent on this character...I wonder if she will have the personality of a cardboard cutout or the intelligence of a Styrofoam cup."

[TheKillerAngel]

Tigerblood and MilkShakes wrote...

littlezack wrote...

 You know, it's funny - I could have sworn there were other things about Mass Effect 3 besides Ashely's outfit. I mean, really now - debate about defeating the Reapers, RPG vs. Shooters, choice outcomes...all the stuff we could be talking about, and this is the #1 topic on the forum?

All those threads get shutdown or runned  into the ground..ive seen alot of those threads get turned into a huge who can shi7 bigger match...likly theres no smell factor for the internet

This topic is such a fireball because in truth, it's a political question in disguise. The debate going on here is really a proxy battle in the larger context of feminism, its evolution, and how it addresses women in media.

Feminism I must add, has many variants, and not all feminists are on the same page when it comes to things like Ashley's outfit.

[idoless24]

I keep thinking Vega's arms are short like a t-rex everytime I see that image but he's really just balling them up. Gives me a giggle everytime.

Ashley's armor? I see skirt, leggings and long stripper boots. Me no likey.

[Siansonea]

idoless24 wrote...

I keep thinking Vega's arms are short like a t-rex everytime I see that image but he's really just balling them up. Gives me a giggle everytime.

Ashley's armor? I see skirt, leggings and long stripper boots. Me no likey.

Vega's posture cracks me up. He looks he's saying "I'm so mad! Dang you!!!" You just know he's about to stamp his foot.

[Bluko]

marshalleck wrote...

Ashley's armor looks great, solid improvement over the pink and white crap the supposedly "non-girly, srs business soldier" was wearing before.

Ashley's debut in ME1 was a bit silly, but tolerable cause at least she was wearing a real suit of armor then. I honestly wouldn't care if Ashley was wearing Pink and White armor again. Heck if Ashley wears Neon Pink Armor with butterflies, ponies, and bunnies that's fine by me. I have no problem with Ashley being girly or feminine. I do have a problem with the fact she seems to be wearing less armor then everyone. I just can't reconcile it. And I fail to see how Bioware would do this as well, unless Ashley's attitude on armor has done a complete 180.

I just don't understand why Bioware couldn't have put Ashley in armor again. Can Ashley not look sexy in armor or something? Seriously, what is the point of such a change in appearence other then well... what seems to be obvious?

It's not the end of the world for me. But it does annoy me to know this is most likely her default look in ME3. I mean yes it's nice to know Ashley will have some sort of armor in ME3 according to Casey. But is this armor available from the start? I'm sorry, but I get really bad feeling Ashley will be stuck her in jacket until you do something comparable to her loyalty mission or vist a few stores. I thought most of the fans had made it clear the get-ups in ME2 were pretty stupid. It's just disappointing to me that Bioware seems to making the same mistakes yet again.

I just don't get it. Shepard dies due exposure to a vacuum. You'd think having proper space armor would be important in this series. Guess not though. Guess all of us who play are a bunch on numbnut mouthbreathers too devoid of thought to notice such since we're so enthralled by the story and character themselves. That and I guess we can assume Shepard and crew will never have to unexpectedly fight in a vacuum or toxic atmosphere.

I dunno I realize complaining about this is futile. But I just can't accept this without at least pointing out what I think is wrong before I know it is inevitable.

[littlezack]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

Tigerblood and MilkShakes wrote...

littlezack wrote...

 You know, it's funny - I could have sworn there were other things about Mass Effect 3 besides Ashely's outfit. I mean, really now - debate about defeating the Reapers, RPG vs. Shooters, choice outcomes...all the stuff we could be talking about, and this is the #1 topic on the forum?

All those threads get shutdown or runned  into the ground..ive seen alot of those threads get turned into a huge who can shi7 bigger match...likly theres no smell factor for the internet

This topic is such a fireball because in truth, it's a political question in disguise. The debate going on here is really a proxy battle in the larger context of feminism, its evolution, and how it addresses women in media.

Feminism I must add, has many variants, and not all feminists are on the same page when it comes to things like Ashley's outfit.

I'd just like to note that judging a woman's personality purely based on the way she looks would be considered by many to be quite sexist.

[Chuvvy]

marshalleck wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

habitat 67 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Pfft. Where's the outrage over Vega's fauxhawk? That's probably the most egregious design concept of any of these characters.

I am very upset.

Focus testing: the character.

Ouch, lol. You nailed it. :happy:

Who's the first guy there? Obviously I recognize Halo, he's a pretty cool guy.

He doesn't afraid of anything. It's Soap from Cawwa duty