ODST 5723 wrote...
Lozark wrote...
That... doesn't seem to actually address what I said. And I'd rather not this turn into a "But what really -is- reality/There is no spoon" type pseudo-philosophical debate. We can look at the physical practicality of Ash's new outfit and compare that to what we know of her character as written and see where it doesn't match up. We can look at the portrayal of people and media and discern what this says about them, our society, and what our society says about them.
We don't have any real context to know what the practicality of the outfit is. We don't live in the universe and don't know what it's capable of or how she has changed.
You're trying to push a subjective agenda and to find contemporary social norms to back that agenda in the guise of objective interpretation.
You remind me of the folks who like to defend old(er) racist/homophobic/sexist movies or TV shows by saying that somehow we must always judge the things only within the context of their own time periods. Like we're "too harsh" if we attack something that we know is horrible especially if the producers are long dead blahblahblah. Well, we're alive and they're not. We're alive, and the ME characters are not. We count for more. Our arrogant contemporary judgments against these practices at any time will count for more than thin excuses for injustices.
What we have here is a bunch of people on one side bending over backwards to defend BioWare's choices at all costs as though BioWare's fictional-universe is a treasure trove symbolic for freedom of expression
at any cost. In this case, the cost being that Ashley is a female Marine grunt who is glammed up in a way that's harmful to perceptions about women. People who defend BioWare's decision value their toys greatly to the point of disregarding the fact that other people's disgust towards these tactics are not overblown or made up. Our criticism against systemic mainstream pandering like this manifestation of a default catsuit for Marine Spectre Ashley doesn't lend well to some people's determination in maintaining the 4th wall for their toys above the blatant harm this sort of thing does to women.
As for how it doesn't match up, any evidence you present right now has little context and supports a position that is not only conjecture, but potentially an agrument about nothing as it's potentially subject to change. If you want to have a real conversation about this, I'd suggest that you actually wait until there is proper context to make the comparisons. Otherwise it becomes an argument as pointless as the Fox News debachle when they jumped the gun on reporting ME1 and an alien sex sim and backed claims of a person who hadn't even played the game.
That you've played ME1 and ME2 doesn't give you enough context to really talk about the context of ME3 when you not only don't know what has really happened the character. As I stated before, while she said she prefers plate to asari commando gear, she also told Shepard and Kaidan that if Shep wanted to see her in a tinfoil miniskirt and thigh high boots he'd have to buy her dinner first. She also talks about fraternization as if it's a bad thing in one case and can sleep with Shepard in another. She also can be mistrustful of aliens and learn to accept them. She's not afraid to be a girl and think Flux is a great place for a ladies night, yet she's well-versed in poetry and history. A strong willed soldier that's a wildcat in bed.
We don't have any sense of what works and what doesn't in a universe that has bullets and an actual Earth? We don't have minds of our own? We don't see Spectre Shepard in various armored hardsuits that represnt the best there is to offer for the same jobs that Ashley finds herself doing now?
What I see when I see this outfit isn't an objectification of the woman. What I see is an intance where she's finally let her inner-self out and is finally showing some self-expression outside of the confines of military structure and for a Spectre, that seems within the limits of what we know.
Ah yes, the excuses from which Charlie's Angels movies are made.
Keep in mind, we haven't seen what Kaidan's wearing when he's not wearing armor either. Or any of the other characters. We don't even know if this is final.
Again, conjecture.
Please. There is no need to pat BioWare on the back or to extend them credit they never earned. It would make me happy if they prove me wrong and extend the same treatment to Kaidan as they've inflicted on Ashley, but I'm not holding my breath for the ME devs to ever do the right thing at this point.
Modifié par Eromenos, 06 juillet 2011 - 05:25 .
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