808 réponses à ce sujet

[AngelicMachinery]

Eromenos wrote...

Warlock Adam wrote...

...you don't get it.

It's bioware's game. Not yours. It's bioware's character, not yours. They've even confirmed in several ways that Ashley will have armor. And you're putting your fingers in your ears and singing, instead of...excuse me..."getting off of your own soapbox."

Do you think you can design Ashley better than her creators?

Some of us don't accept filth being forced-fed on us as if we don't know any better. Some of us detect the presence of filth in that picture because we're not so craven as to bow for some proprietary mystique of BioWare's, which you believe is yours to uphold all because you appreciate the misogynistic catsuit.

Let's not pretend that their being at the helm is any excuse for them to pull this crap against female characters. There's nothing to stop anyone from calling BS when it's this bad.

STOP!  Do you understand how the hell you sound?

Everything you say is essentially just tearing down woman yourself!  Everyone of your suggestions involve "Women shouldn't be like this."  Are you just too dense to notice the hypocrisy?  You're not doing any good, even if you think your somehow improving everything for women.

Hour glass this, hour glass that!  for some reason the word seems to ring with so much contempt when you use it.

Modifié par AngelicMachinery, 06 juillet 2011 - 12:18 .

[Siansonea]

This thread needs ponies or something. Way too much vitriol.

[MrDbow]

Eromenos wrote...

Warlock Adam wrote...

...you don't get it.

It's bioware's game. Not yours. It's bioware's character, not yours. They've even confirmed in several ways that Ashley will have armor. And you're putting your fingers in your ears and singing, instead of...excuse me..."getting off of your own soapbox."

Do you think you can design Ashley better than her creators?

Some of us don't accept filth being forced-fed on us as if we don't know any better. Some of us detect the presence of filth in that picture because we're not so craven as to bow for some proprietary mystique of BioWare's, which you believe is yours to uphold all because you appreciate the misogynistic catsuit.

Let's not pretend that their being at the helm is any excuse for them to pull this crap against female characters. There's nothing to stop anyone from calling BS when it's this bad.

Although, I do not agree with your overall opinion, I can understand your stance and comments.

However, I have to say I just do not understand the word usage.  Filth is a very, very strong word to use in this instance.  It would be one thing is she was dressed with exposed stomach and legs and her zipper was halfway down, but as an outfit it is not filthy at all.  Now, would I like Ashley to wear it while fighting some husks? No.  But I could not disagree more with your use of that word considering other outfits that can be found in the ME universe.

Modifié par SimplyNeo, 06 juillet 2011 - 12:21 .

[crimzontearz]

AppleBanana wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...


Excuse me you appalling blatant troll.

I agreed with your original post, some of the people in this thread and on these forums react ridiculously to things they dont like about the ME and DA universes.
So how is what you just did any better?

I mean really, how was THAT response to Siansonea's perfectly logical and reasonable supposition about what atmosphere the collectors breathe based on existing evidence an example of her being an idiot who shouldnt reproduce?

No need for that.

Reported.

I didn't care that it didn't make any sense, but I take exception to when people try to explain things as ridiculous as breathing at the centre of the galaxy. That is stupid beyond belief.

uhhhhhhh

how exactly?

it is a space station, it is apparently sealed, the reaper tech allows it to be within the glactic core through unimaginably powerful mass effect fields

are you implying there "can't" be oxygen there because of the location? if so then there should not be any oxygen on the citadel either

are you implying the Collector base does not have some sort of hydroponic centre?

could you at the very least explain yourself?

[Eromenos]

x0hn0th3r4nc0rx wrote...

Eromenos wrote...
With the way the colors are arrayed on her in this picture, do we ever see male combat outfits being depicted in this way that emphasizes the sexuality of their bodies above all else?

I seem to remember Thane's "loyal" outfit had a white shield-shaped outline around his unmentionables.

It may not happen often, but it does happen.

I can't recall. Did you mean this? http://fc07.devianta...er_Midnight.jpg

It was all I could find. I see what you're getting at, but that still does not come close to reaching the level of exploitation on Liara's red-labcoat. We can't forget that his own coat obscures his figure in a way that Liara's does not, and this one particular point of titillation on his anatomy is far less than the effect of the overall color scheme in her appearance.

I have to disagree with you as well about the possibility that his painted bawls were the selling point of his appearance. Every element of the exploitative female outfits goes toward that goal, yet he has but one and in-game I believe it's "blended" into his appearance just like the coloring of his scales with his outfits. Lest we also forget, the shape of his outfit makes him a "pimp" whereas the shape given by the coloring of Liara's red labcoat suggests a "ho." Still a very disproportionate presentation that is gratifying for men by being much less favorable to women.

Modifié par Eromenos, 06 juillet 2011 - 12:27 .

[crimzontearz]

SimplyNeo wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

Warlock Adam wrote...

...you don't get it.

It's bioware's game. Not yours. It's bioware's character, not yours. They've even confirmed in several ways that Ashley will have armor. And you're putting your fingers in your ears and singing, instead of...excuse me..."getting off of your own soapbox."

Do you think you can design Ashley better than her creators?

Some of us don't accept filth being forced-fed on us as if we don't know any better. Some of us detect the presence of filth in that picture because we're not so craven as to bow for some proprietary mystique of BioWare's, which you believe is yours to uphold all because you appreciate the misogynistic catsuit.

Let's not pretend that their being at the helm is any excuse for them to pull this crap against female characters. There's nothing to stop anyone from calling BS when it's this bad.

Although, I do not agree with your overall opinion, I can understand your stance and comments.

However, I have to say I just do not understand the word usage.  Filth is a very, very strong word to use in this instance.  It would be one thing is she was dressed with exposed stomach and legs and her zipper was halfway down, but as an outfit it is not filthy at all.  Now, would I like Ashley to wear it while fighting some husks? No.  But I could not disagree more with your use of that word considering other outfits that can be found in the ME universe.

I am not 100% sure he gave "filth" the connotative meaning you are assuming

[Bluko]

I think the issue for some fans of Ashley is that the "jacket" appears to be her default appearence. I wouldn't complain if the jacket was one of her alternate appearences. If a player wants to dress up with Ashley so she has something a little more fanciful so they can have their pretend Barbie Ashley that's fine.

I also wouldn't complain if the jacket was what she just wore on the ship. But it seems pretty evident her "jacket" is going to be her default combat gear. I realize it's probably asinine to think that any criticism from a few forum goers is hardly compelling enough for them to change it. Which is half the reason the lashback is so strong. It's because some of us realize that this is pretty much what Ashley is going to be stuck with in ME3. So yeah go figure some are kind of mad.

Frankly it just seems really insulting to her previous character in both ME1 and ME2. Sure Ashley's default Phoenix Armor (being Pink and White) was hardly dignified, but you know at least she was wearing the same amount of armor as the guys. I could care less whether Ashley was wearing pink armor with butterflies painted on it, but seriously Ashley's default look should have in her armor. I don't care how girly the armor is, but it is wrong that Ashley's combat attire is simply a mere jacket. I'm sorry to say but this does not speak well of the maturity Bioware when they go so far as to ignore aspects of a character simply so they can be made more attractive. And I thought it was really stupid that many of the characters in ME2 couldn't be bothered to wear armor simply so they could look more "cool" or "sexy" or some other idiotic reason.

Also while I'd like to find the promise of Ashley having armor in ME3 reassuring there is no indication when or how this armor will be available. For all I know Ashley may very well be stuck in this jacket for half the game. In which case this very much a problem for me and others.

Look I'm not some ultra-conservative type who freaks out over scantily clad women. I have no problem with the female characters in oh say MK9 wearing little more then lingerie even though I venture many would take issue with such. My issue with Bioware in this regard seems to be they care less about their own characters and are more concerned with selling them as romance (sex) options more then anything else. And I'm sure many guys out there are fine with that. For me, for a Developer that places such a big emphasis on story and characters I got to say that doing this sort of stuff is really just pathetic and really shakes the confidence I have in Bioware's story-telling and game making abilities.

[Sparda Stonerule]

This is getting beyond absurd. Do the people who have problems with Ashley's outfit have to express so much contempt for everyone else. Some people have laid out very clear reasons why they don't like it. Some people are concerned about the treatment of her character and I can understand and appreciate that.

However some people are coming in here on their pedestal. They sit here and preach about how they know what's best for not only Ashley's character, but for all women. That is unfair and narrow minded. The measure of an individual is their actions, not their clothes. If you have ever refused to take someone seriously because of their clothing then you are only looking at a shallow portion of what makes an individual. You all have no idea how Ashley will act in Mass Effect 3. She could very well be the same person who we all know. You are going around bashing this as if it will somehow shake the core of her character. I don't know this for sure, and no I have no evidence to back this up but I firmly believe she will still be the same. She will still have strong opinions and stick by her moral code.

As for the people who don't believe the tweets about Ashley's armor, please take a couple of days to cool down and wait for some evidence. I understand skepticism but to outright call them liars is unfair and rude to the people who make the series you claim to be fans of.

It's all so silly, and please for the people who are annoyed by all the complaints from these people don't flame them. Just enjoy the news and be happy about it, their complaints and occasional vitriol should not color your enthusiasm about Mass Effect 3 news. Now can we all attempt to return to more civil grounds before this argument gets way too out of hand.

[Tric]

Thus is the BSN, crisis is never averted.

This will only , probably, stop when people get to see this armour that they've been promisssed.

Modifié par SomethingSome, 06 juillet 2011 - 12:35 .

[Uzzy]

Siansonea II wrote...

By the way, I tried my hand at a new outfit for Ashley, and I decided to give her blonde hair, just for variety. I think this could work for most combat situations, and maybe also for aboard the Normandy:



Is she too covered up? I can accept criticism, so feel free to give feedback, this is a work-in-progress...

You've got the neck coverings down perfect, and as Bioware can't make a proper neck joint ever, that's important. Overall, it's a damn good costume, and as Ashley will have shielding, perfectly sensible for a military sci-fi franchise.

[crimzontearz]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

This is getting beyond absurd. Do the people who have problems with Ashley's outfit have to express so much contempt for everyone else. Some people have laid out very clear reasons why they don't like it. Some people are concerned about the treatment of her character and I can understand and appreciate that.

However some people are coming in here on their pedestal. They sit here and preach about how they know what's best for not only Ashley's character, but for all women. That is unfair and narrow minded. The measure of an individual is their actions, not their clothes. If you have ever refused to take someone seriously because of their clothing then you are only looking at a shallow portion of what makes an individual. You all have no idea how Ashley will act in Mass Effect 3. She could very well be the same person who we all know. You are going around bashing this as if it will somehow shake the core of her character. I don't know this for sure, and no I have no evidence to back this up but I firmly believe she will still be the same. She will still have strong opinions and stick by her moral code.

As for the people who don't believe the tweets about Ashley's armor, please take a couple of days to cool down and wait for some evidence. I understand skepticism but to outright call them liars is unfair and rude to the people who make the series you claim to be fans of.

It's all so silly, and please for the people who are annoyed by all the complaints from these people don't flame them. Just enjoy the news and be happy about it, their complaints and occasional vitriol should not color your enthusiasm about Mass Effect 3 news. Now can we all attempt to return to more civil grounds before this argument gets way too out of hand.

1: go to a marine, ANY marine, male or female, and tell them "hey, we are going into a combat zone, you'll be frontline....here's your newly issued clothes" and give them what Ash is wearing in that screen......I dare you

2: I have not called Casey a Liar, I merely noticed his statement is very op-en to interpretation even tho it was obviously aimed to wash away the doubts of the fans. That's suspicious

as for the rest.....eh

[Chaos-fusion]

I'm interested to see if/how Vega changes before the game is out. He seems to not have many fans so far, poor guy.

Filament wrote...

Casey Hudson wrote...

She will also have full armor and helmet.

Oh, I guess crisis averted then, huh?

*looks at thread*

Ah...

It does depend on his definition of "full armour" though.

Also, totally off-topic, but I love that avatar. Such a charming game.

[Uzzy]

Chaos-fusion wrote...

I'm interested to see if/how Vega changes before the game is out. He seems to not have many fans so far, poor guy.

Vega looks perfect for the 'Forever on the Normandy' role, really.

[Big_Chief]

I wasn't a fan of Ash wearing a catsuit into battle, but Casey Hudson already countered that. There will be armor and a helmet. I don't really get the vitriol here. What else is there to say? Why is there still arguing? The amount of rage over this is getting a little silly.

[The Spamming Troll]

so that casual garb for ashely is her combat gear? thats unfortunate. i cant really take a character seriously, especially one considering themselves a SOLDIER, that is cool with wearing casual jackets as combat gear. she looks like an adept.

im not a fan of jack, but after getting her appearance pack and her loyalty mission complete, i can start using her. i honestly dont consider jack part of my team, untill i get her out of those nipples suspenders.

it might seems like a non issue for some people, id just think bioware would be cattering more towards those that appreciate ashley as a character especially since ME1, then those who are new to ME, and the OMG BOOBS crowd.

[marshalleck]

Ashley's armor looks great, solid improvement over the pink and white crap the supposedly "non-girly, srs business soldier" was wearing before.

Modifié par marshalleck, 06 juillet 2011 - 12:42 .

[Eromenos]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

Warlock Adam wrote...

...you don't get it.

It's bioware's game. Not yours. It's bioware's character, not yours. They've even confirmed in several ways that Ashley will have armor. And you're putting your fingers in your ears and singing, instead of...excuse me..."getting off of your own soapbox."

Do you think you can design Ashley better than her creators?

Some of us don't accept filth being forced-fed on us as if we don't know any better. Some of us detect the presence of filth in that picture because we're not so craven as to bow for some proprietary mystique of BioWare's, which you believe is yours to uphold all because you appreciate the misogynistic catsuit.

Let's not pretend that their being at the helm is any excuse for them to pull this crap against female characters. There's nothing to stop anyone from calling BS when it's this bad.

STOP!  Do you understand how the hell you sound?

Everything you say is essentially just tearing down woman yourself!  Everyone of your suggestions involve "Women shouldn't be like this."  Are you just too dense to notice the hypocrisy?  You're not doing any good, even if you think your somehow improving everything for women.

Hour glass this, hour glass that!  for some reason the word seems to ring with so much contempt when you use it.

Excuse me. You assume that I follow the line of thinking that my detractors here use for themselves. They tell themselves that these characters are real people who made these decisions to play up to sex-toy imagery for men. Whereas, I say these characters are BioWare's toys and they've demonstrated zero compunctions about blatantly exploiting female-characters to gratify dudebro audiences.

When I bring up the hourglass-factor I do it to emphasize how idiotic it is to overvalue that attribute at the cost of shoving women-fighters into stupid catsuits. Jane Shepard, Ashley Williams, and Liara T'Soni demonstrated in ME1 that it is entirely possible to have hourglasses while still being fully-armored and protected. They had hourglasses and definite female curves which was awesome, but those were parts of their appearances, not the ridiculous selling-points from ME2 and now ME3.

This isn't me going "Women shouldn't be like this." This is me going "BioWare is contemptible because they force women to be like this."

The moment you tell yourself that the buck does not stop with these characters, but rather with the cavalier and irresponsible ME devs, you'll get it.

Modifié par Eromenos, 06 juillet 2011 - 12:44 .

[Obvakhi]

crimzontearz wrote...

1: go to a marine, ANY marine, male or female, and tell them "hey, we are going into a combat zone, you'll be frontline....here's your newly issued clothes" and give them what Ash is wearing in that screen......I dare you

Comparing real life with a video game set in the distant future? Come on.

[TheMakoMaster]

apparently,

appearance = personality

change = armageddon + an unforgivable assault on a whole bunch of "isms"

that's what i've learned today 

Modifié par TheMakoMaster, 06 juillet 2011 - 12:46 .

[Welsh Inferno]

Why do you people insist on going in circles?

[Siansonea]

It seems to me that 90% of the vitriol is coming from people who are complaining about the complaining. As if we're not supposed to give our opinion about stuff like this. I'm pretty sure BioWare WANTS to know what people are thinking about this, especially since our take might not have been brought up in the staff meetings. Now that CHud is aware of our concerns for Ashley's safety, I'm more inclined to think she'll have a proper set of armor in ME3. But I'm not going to be 100% certain of it until I see it. BioWare's guiding principles for visual design, as evidenced by their art direction in ME2 and what little we've seen of ME3, have given me cause for doubt.

[ohnotherancor]

Eromenos wrote...

x0hn0th3r4nc0rx wrote...

Eromenos wrote...
With the way the colors are arrayed on her in this picture, do we ever see male combat outfits being depicted in this way that emphasizes the sexuality of their bodies above all else?

I seem to remember Thane's "loyal" outfit had a white shield-shaped outline around his unmentionables.

It may not happen often, but it does happen.

I can't recall. Did you mean this? http://fc07.devianta...er_Midnight.jpg

It was all I could find. I see what you're getting at, but that still does not come close to reaching the level of exploitation on Liara's red-labcoat. We can't forget that his own coat obscures his figure in a way that Liara's does not, and this one particular point of titillation on his anatomy is far less than the effect of the overall color scheme in her appearance.

I have to disagree with you as well about the possibility that his painted bawls were the selling point of his appearance. Every element of the exploitative female outfits goes toward that goal, yet he has but one and in-game I believe it's "blended" into his appearance just like the coloring of his scales with his outfits. Lest we also forget, the shape of his outfit makes him a "pimp" whereas the shape given by the coloring of Liara's red labcoat suggests a "ho." Still a very disproportionate presentation that is gratifying for men by being much less favorable to women.

Oh man, that...is kind of creeping me out.

But yes. That is what I meant. And honestly, I think you're getting too worked up about this.

There is nothing about Liara's outfit that screams "ho" in my eyes. It is her regular white outfit which you are okay with, but recolored. I really don't know what makes her white outfit fine in your eyes and not this one. I gather that you are very against the coloring because it somehow sexes Liara up. And really, I think part of it may be that this is a very poor picture. Her pose is weird and the lighting is pretty horrible.
I'm not a man so I can't say what looks sexy to men. But honestly, Liara's outfit just looks ridiculous to me. There is nothing sexy about it; it's just silly-looking. And from what I've read of the responses, most people agree. In fact, I cannot recall one comment in which someone said "mmm liara looks damn fine...i'd hit that like a train". People were fine with it because Samara does not have a monopoly on the color red or said it looked stupid and moved on.

And Thane's appearance did not suggest "pimp" to me, either. It suggested he was a sexy man who wore sexy things, but that does not immediately equate pimp. I did not look at his outfit and think "he must really get it on with all the drell ladies". I looked at it and thought, "I guess he is confident with his (rather attractive) body."

I will go on and even say that I think Thane is more sexed up in ME 2 than Liara is in this picture here. I do not generally notice the lower half of characters' bodies as I tend  to look at their faces for the most part. I did, however, pick up on Thane's crotch target pretty quickly. Because it was flagrantly obvious. It was a white drawing on black leather.

Just because he happens to be male doesn't mean he can't be sexed up  as much as women can.