52 réponses à ce sujet

[dantares83]

 Seriously, 

in real life, would you ever considered dating your superiors? For me, it's a no no no. I don't wish people to say I am sleeping with him/her just so I can climb up the ladder... I rather leave the company and join another before getting into a relationship...

So Ashley sleeping with maleShep is like the female secretary sleeping with her boss so she can have additional benefits... and Kaiden sleeping with femShep is the typical behaviour of a male s**t....

no wonder they promoted him in ME3... but then again, ur femShep would be see as a s**t....

guess I can only date aliens in ME3... 

[Trakarg]

It wasn't the shepards who handed out promotions. Your logic is inconsistent.

[DWH1982]

The military tends to discourage these types of relationships for other reasons.

Virmire is a good example. Do you really think that a Shepard who was interested in Ash or Kaidan was capable of making an unbiased decision? I'll be frank... I wanted to romance Ash, and I rescued Ash. I have my arguments for that decision, but I'm not 100% sure I didn't just construct them around saving the character I wanted to save for romance reasons. That's okay for a video game, not so great for a "real life" scenario.

In real life, I would consider dating my superior IF I felt we clicked, IF I thought she would be open to it, and IF there were no policy against it where I worked. Life's too short to care about what other people think.

[Skirata129]

I was completely honest about it. I was romancing ash so I saved her. there were ancillary reasons though, such as the fact that kaidan had yet to contribute anything to the mission and I had never used him in my squad after other characters became availible. ash was generally more useful in the field.

[DWH1982]

Off topic, but that might mean you weren't building Kaidan's powers appropriately.

You need to build Kaidan's skills yourself, not use the auto level. If you invest in his biotic powers and tech powers well, he becomes a very useful and powerful squadmate. I use him all the time. Combined with the fact that he was my second favorite character after Ash, that explains why I put Virmire off as much as possible when I play ME1.

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

Glad to see that people are paying attention to this haha. Yeah, IMO the whole fraternization thing is a huge issue with any Mass Effect romance. Even someone like Liara who's technically not on Shep's crew is still someone Shep is giving orders to in a combat situation. It would have worked much better if Shep had a guy/gal/Asari back home he/she wrote letters to and saw on shore leave, honestly.

[Skirata129]

I built up his skills, I still prefered ash in the field though. I always focused on combat characters rather than biotics because I just enjoyed the gameplay more. plus I didn't really care strongly about him as a character. I only talked to him for the XP points.

[ms_sunlight]

dantares83 wrote...

 Seriously, 

in real life, would you ever considered dating your superiors? For me, it's a no no no. I don't wish people to say I am sleeping with him/her just so I can climb up the ladder... I rather leave the company and join another before getting into a relationship...

So Ashley sleeping with maleShep is like the female secretary sleeping with her boss so she can have additional benefits... and Kaiden sleeping with femShep is the typical behaviour of a male s**t....

no wonder they promoted him in ME3... but then again, ur femShep would be see as a s**t....

guess I can only date aliens in ME3... 

Just a thought... why do you feel the need to differentiate between Kaidan and Ashley's role when it comes to shagging Shepard?  Surely they're both subordinates, therefore both similarly off limits while on duty - and it's worth noting that they both know that in-game.  Their gender alone doesn't change that situation or frame it in different ways; it shouldn't now and it certainly shouldn't in the 22nd century.

[Son of Illusive Man]

I was with Liara, but I still saved Ash.

Kaidan didn't really seem like he had a distinct personality. Of course, I realized that Ashley is quite ****y, and no personality would have been better than a negative one.

[dantares83]

ms_sunlight wrote...

dantares83 wrote...

 Seriously, 

in real life, would you ever considered dating your superiors? For me, it's a no no no. I don't wish people to say I am sleeping with him/her just so I can climb up the ladder... I rather leave the company and join another before getting into a relationship...

So Ashley sleeping with maleShep is like the female secretary sleeping with her boss so she can have additional benefits... and Kaiden sleeping with femShep is the typical behaviour of a male s**t....

no wonder they promoted him in ME3... but then again, ur femShep would be see as a s**t....

guess I can only date aliens in ME3... 

Just a thought... why do you feel the need to differentiate between Kaidan and Ashley's role when it comes to shagging Shepard?  Surely they're both subordinates, therefore both similarly off limits while on duty - and it's worth noting that they both know that in-game.  Their gender alone doesn't change that situation or frame it in different ways; it shouldn't now and it certainly shouldn't in the 22nd century.

it's a bit sexist but I do think that males who sleep with their superiors are worse than their female counterparts...

i mean if u make ur femShep UGLY and Kaiden is still interested... it is saying something... either he is just sleeping with you so you can recommend him for promotion next time or he just into woman with leadership qualities coz he likes to be 'punished'... either way, he is seemed as a 'p**sy'...

Modifié par dantares83, 06 juillet 2011 - 01:14 .

[Raiil]

Actually, one of the reasons why my Shepard ultimately moved on to Thane and won't be getting back with Kaidan is the superior/subordinate issue. It got sticky on Horizon, and it did interfere with her objectivity, and frankly, there's something seriously annoying about being called Commander by your LI sometimes.

When I started ME2, I was basically hemming and hawwing between the three male LI, and one of the reasons I went for Thane is because it's the one femshep LI in which the superior/subordinate situation is virtually non-existent. Jacob's too entrenched in the military lifestyle and Garrus looks up to Shep too much for her comfort, but the dude who's more of a contractor than a regular employee is doable. (No pun intended, and yet somehow unavoidable >.>)

[TexasToast712]

 Use what you have been given. If that means sleeping your way to the corporate top then why not?

[D.Kain]

dantares83 wrote...

 Seriously, 

in real life, would you ever considered dating your superiors? For me, it's a no no no. I don't wish people to say I am sleeping with him/her just so I can climb up the ladder... I rather leave the company and join another before getting into a relationship...

So Ashley sleeping with maleShep is like the female secretary sleeping with her boss so she can have additional benefits... and Kaiden sleeping with femShep is the typical behaviour of a male s**t....

no wonder they promoted him in ME3... but then again, ur femShep would be see as a s**t....

guess I can only date aliens in ME3... 

In real life I don't care what others think about my mates. If I like someone I will date them, doesn't matter if it's my superior or not.                                

[jeweledleah]

its completely and utterly impossible to fall in love with your superior, right? I mean, it just doesn't happen... ever.

problem is people see what they want to see. you expect to see this behavior in this light, so despite different dynamic, set up, outright dialogue... you still see it in that light. neither Ashley nor Kaidan sleep with Shepard because their are trying to f**k their way to the top. on the contrary. they both take it as slow as they can manage because of the regulations, hoping for some shore leave, trying to keep relationship low key, until they are both just people, rather then marines, off duty. they both make that move, because situation is dire and they might not see another shore leave. demeaning it by claiming its just sex for Ash/Kaidan and that they are doing it for advancement is missing the point of that entire subplot.

in real life, I would have no issue with dating my superior... or subordinate, because in real life, I would keep my relationship and my work - separate. in game, Virmire basically forces you to chose and I have to say, the fact that Kaidan is a higher ranked officer, personally selected by original captain and a rare stable L2 - makes that choice a lot easier. with Ashley, justifications had to be metagamed, but it was still not impossible. nonetheless.

[Raiil]

jeweledleah wrote...

its completely and utterly impossible to fall in love with your superior, right? I mean, it just doesn't happen... ever.

problem is people see what they want to see. you expect to see this behavior in this light, so despite different dynamic, set up, outright dialogue... you still see it in that light. neither Ashley nor Kaidan sleep with Shepard because their are trying to f**k their way to the top. on the contrary. they both take it as slow as they can manage because of the regulations, hoping for some shore leave, trying to keep relationship low key, until they are both just people, rather then marines, off duty. they both make that move, because situation is dire and they might not see another shore leave. demeaning it by claiming its just sex for Ash/Kaidan and that they are doing it for advancement is missing the point of that entire subplot.

in real life, I would have no issue with dating my superior... or subordinate, because in real life, I would keep my relationship and my work - separate. in game, Virmire basically forces you to chose and I have to say, the fact that Kaidan is a higher ranked officer, personally selected by original captain and a rare stable L2 - makes that choice a lot easier. with Ashley, justifications had to be metagamed, but it was still not impossible. nonetheless.

Just out of curiousity, have you ever tried dating your superior or subordinate? I dated a subordinate in high school (military programme; I was an officer and battalion staff, he was a first year corporal) and it's damn near impossible to completely separate the personal and the work life- and that was just in a school programme. There are so many issues that can come up that don't even begin to meddle with the abuse of power/pulling rank that most companies/businesses strongly frown on it, if not outright ban it. It got bad enough that I won't even consider it IRL anyone and it made me somewhat uncomfortable in game, and that's with both of us being officers and only having to deal with the being in the same crew- ostensibly, if things hadn't gone to pot, Kaidan could have been reassigned and there would have been little issue with the matter.

I don't believe that Ashley or Kaidan are trying to hump their way up the ladder, but there are ethical issues and personal ones that can strongly discourage that sort of relationship for a reason. 

[Thomas Andresen]

DWH1982 wrote...

The military tends to discourage these types of relationships for other reasons.

Virmire is a good example. Do you really think that a Shepard who was interested in Ash or Kaidan was capable of making an unbiased decision? I'll be frank... I wanted to romance Ash, and I rescued Ash. I have my arguments for that decision, but I'm not 100% sure I didn't just construct them around saving the character I wanted to save for romance reasons. That's okay for a video game, not so great for a "real life" scenario.

In real life, I would consider dating my superior IF I felt we clicked, IF I thought she would be open to it, and IF there were no policy against it where I worked. Life's too short to care about what other people think.

I totally agree. I don't really like Ashley, at the best of times, so of all the uncountable times I played through Mass Effect, I only rescued her once, when I opted to romance her with my MaleShep, and that save, along with the save where I offed Wrex, got lost after one of my harddrive breakdowns. Well, two, come to think about it. I wanted to see the confrontation scene with her and Liara, as well. I think at least 200 hours of Mass Effect gameplay got lost in that one crash.

Anyway, I guess my real point was that relationships complicating things in the military goes beyond romance. Your choices will always be biased, if you have as much as met the people involved. That is so long as you have a heart, figuratively speaking. Everything is always so much easier for the heartless.

[Ruse]

Is it wrong that after reading the title I immediately thought
"Heavy risk... but the priiiize."

And for the OP's question, I felt like there was quite a bit a flirting between Shepard and Kaidan before they started dating. (I'm not sure about the Ashley romance) So in real life if it was like Kaidan and Shep... Proabably not. After all look what ended up happening on Virmire. Sorry Ash. :C

[Rulid]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

DWH1982 wrote...

The military tends to discourage these types of relationships for other reasons.

Virmire is a good example. Do you really think that a Shepard who was interested in Ash or Kaidan was capable of making an unbiased decision? I'll be frank... I wanted to romance Ash, and I rescued Ash. I have my arguments for that decision, but I'm not 100% sure I didn't just construct them around saving the character I wanted to save for romance reasons. That's okay for a video game, not so great for a "real life" scenario.

In real life, I would consider dating my superior IF I felt we clicked, IF I thought she would be open to it, and IF there were no policy against it where I worked. Life's too short to care about what other people think.

I totally agree. I don't really like Ashley, at the best of times, so of all the uncountable times I played through Mass Effect, I only rescued her once, when I opted to romance her with my MaleShep, and that save, along with the save where I offed Wrex, got lost after one of my harddrive breakdowns. Well, two, come to think about it. I wanted to see the confrontation scene with her and Liara, as well. I think at least 200 hours of Mass Effect gameplay got lost in that one crash.

Anyway, I guess my real point was that relationships complicating things in the military goes beyond romance. Your choices will always be biased, if you have as much as met the people involved. That is so long as you have a heart, figuratively speaking. Everything is always so much easier for the heartless.

It's not about heartlessness. It's about social consciousness.

If you have to choose your LI and a random someone, why do you not consider that such a random someone also has a LI somewhere.

The moral puzzle is that You (Shepard) are given the uncommon choice to choose between who lives and who dies. Would I be heartless to forsake my LI, or would I be selfish not to make unbiased decisions based on the necessity of the situation. The Bioware writers could have improved upon the situation by stacking the odds against saving your particular LI in such a situation. (i.e. if I save my LI, not only the other VS would die but also Kirrahe and his men)

Gratefully, I liked neither VS so I usually go back to protect the bomb as my primary goal irrespective of who goes where.

[Ryzaki]

Nah my Shepard isn't dating any one who is his superior. So...yeah not an issue.

[jeweledleah]

Valentia X wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

its completely and utterly impossible to fall in love with your superior, right? I mean, it just doesn't happen... ever.

problem is people see what they want to see. you expect to see this behavior in this light, so despite different dynamic, set up, outright dialogue... you still see it in that light. neither Ashley nor Kaidan sleep with Shepard because their are trying to f**k their way to the top. on the contrary. they both take it as slow as they can manage because of the regulations, hoping for some shore leave, trying to keep relationship low key, until they are both just people, rather then marines, off duty. they both make that move, because situation is dire and they might not see another shore leave. demeaning it by claiming its just sex for Ash/Kaidan and that they are doing it for advancement is missing the point of that entire subplot.

in real life, I would have no issue with dating my superior... or subordinate, because in real life, I would keep my relationship and my work - separate. in game, Virmire basically forces you to chose and I have to say, the fact that Kaidan is a higher ranked officer, personally selected by original captain and a rare stable L2 - makes that choice a lot easier. with Ashley, justifications had to be metagamed, but it was still not impossible. nonetheless.

Just out of curiousity, have you ever tried dating your superior or subordinate? I dated a subordinate in high school (military programme; I was an officer and battalion staff, he was a first year corporal) and it's damn near impossible to completely separate the personal and the work life- and that was just in a school programme. There are so many issues that can come up that don't even begin to meddle with the abuse of power/pulling rank that most companies/businesses strongly frown on it, if not outright ban it. It got bad enough that I won't even consider it IRL anyone and it made me somewhat uncomfortable in game, and that's with both of us being officers and only having to deal with the being in the same crew- ostensibly, if things hadn't gone to pot, Kaidan could have been reassigned and there would have been little issue with the matter.

I don't believe that Ashley or Kaidan are trying to hump their way up the ladder, but there are ethical issues and personal ones that can strongly discourage that sort of relationship for a reason. 

I've dated a manager.  when that relationship ended, it was not becasue of disparity of our professional standing.  I know of couples who started out this way and are now married. yes, its tough.  its especialy tough when you have a larger office and rumors travel and people start making allegations.  which is why you act professional inside the office and make sure there's absolutely no reason for anyone to suspect favoritism.  but its not impossible.  just very very hard, so you gotta make sure its actualy worth it.

as for in game - there are plenty of issues there as well.  there's a reason why you are keeping it relatively light and professional through out majority of the game, dancing around it cautiously, making plans for shore leave.  its much harder to keep it separate, when you are serving on the same vessel, but where there's a will, there's a way.  Virmire is a tough choice no matter how you swing it, and its tough even if you are a consumate professional, romancing no one.  Ilos, as possibly mission of no return, works as a breaking point very well.

[Raiil]

I've dated a manager. when that relationship ended, it was not becasue of disparity of our professional standing. I know of couples who started out this way and are now married. yes, its tough. its especialy tough when you have a larger office and rumors travel and people start making allegations. which is why you act professional inside the office and make sure there's absolutely no reason for anyone to suspect favoritism. but its not impossible. just very very hard, so you gotta make sure its actualy worth it.

It's not about favouritism per say. It's about conflict of interest, of which favouritism is a possible by-product. Because of the situations people in the military may find themselves in, it goes from potential nepotism to endangering the mission, and thus jeopardising the livelihood of the unit. Add to the fact that you're sharing your home and the situation skyrockets. Being professional helps, but it doesn't solve the problem, since the potential for distrust and assumptions can't easily be rectified, if they can be rectified at all.

[mineralica]

I wouldn't date someone just to make a career, but if fell in love and that person occasionally would revealed to be superior/subordinate, why not? After all, I'm a chemist and the most impacting unjust decision I may do is to redistribute the resourses from myself to my loved. I'm still doing it even dating an equal in rank :-P
About Virmire choice... I'm very lucky. I prefer supporting companions, not the tanks/damage dealers, so Kaidan almost always was in squad in ME1 (as well as Miranda in ME2), plus he's higher ranked, plus he's rare human biotic, plus I like his personality; so his LI status really added nothing. Virmire would be much, much worse if roles would be reversed - Ashley would be Sentinel, Staff Lieutenant and had a dry wit while Kaidan would be Soldier, Gunnery Chief and would be flirty while tough - it will end with me saving Ashley all the time, even if sacrificing the LI

[Paula Deen]

DWH1982 wrote...

The military tends to discourage these types of relationships for other reasons.

Virmire is a good example. Do you really think that a Shepard who was interested in Ash or Kaidan was capable of making an unbiased decision? I'll be frank... I wanted to romance Ash, and I rescued Ash. I have my arguments for that decision, but I'm not 100% sure I didn't just construct them around saving the character I wanted to save for romance reasons. That's okay for a video game, not so great for a "real life" scenario.

In real life, I would consider dating my superior IF I felt we clicked, IF I thought she would be open to it, and IF there were no policy against it where I worked. Life's too short to care about what other people think.

I think it's possible to make an unbiased conclusion--but actually making the decision is so much harder.

In all fairness, Ash/Kaidan don't actually make any sort of official relationship with Shepard until the suicide mission to Ilos. I think, in all fairness, when the world is ending and you're probably not going to survive, it doesn't really matter.

But back to Virmire: going through all the details, saving whoever is with the STG is the logical choice. The bomb is designed to be nearly impervious to damage and nearly impossible to disarm (which makes sense; if it's made from a drive core, it's probably designed like an overloaded reactor), not to mention that you have an elite soldeir guarding it. The STG and Ash/Kaidan comprise of a lot of lives. Since it's about saving the most lives, they're the logical choice.

So, really, it depends on who you think is best suited to go with the STG in the context of the mission. I personally think Kaidan is; the diversionary team could really use a Sentinel with special forces training. I actually chose Ash on my main playthrough, though, because I hadn't come to that conclusion at the time.

But it could really go either way. Kirrahe says that the bomb is harder to disarm depending on who arms it; so maybe Kaidan is the better choice to take with you.

Lastly, if Ash is with the STG, she says (before you make the choice) "Screw that! We can handle ourselves!" If you believe her, then you save Kaidan. But if you don't, when you get there you see that she was very wrong.

[oyukichan]

Would I do it in real life? Yes, if there was something between us to be pursued. But I also know how to separate work and my private life.

As far as Shep... Most of my Sheps fall for Kaidan. One sacrificed Kaidan, even though she was seriously attracted to him, because she felt Ashley - being younger and slightly less capable than Kaidan - needed to be rescued. But usually Shep saves Kaidan because he is more useful in SO many ways. All joking aside, I always find his powers/skills to be a better match for my team than pure soldier Ashley.