395 réponses à ce sujet

[D.Kain]

atheelogos wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

So alot of people dislike Morinth for obvious reasons

well she has been raping people for hundreds of years.... so yeah.
"How to improve Morinth?" End her story by killing her.

For some reason your comment reminds me of this: 

Modifié par D.Kain, 11 juillet 2011 - 09:05 .

[Tonymac]

Buggirl70 wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

Samara did not strike me as a liar so when she explained what an Ardat-Yakshi was ... I listened.

Morinth seduces using her voice, body, etc. and as I see on this thread ... dippy-do is she good. We have believers here ... If people want to date the asari version of Ted freakin' Bundy, don't cry when she kills you. 

In fact, anything less would be a watering down of her character.

You can't have Samara ... You can't have Morinth. Like mother, like daughter!

Take your logic and get out of this thread!  My Shepard can heal her!!!

Seriously though, any Shepard that chooses to ignore that Morinth is a rabid sociopath and can kill you during the melding process deserves an award.
 
A Darwin Award that is.

No balls, no blue chips.  Sometimes you gotta put what you have on the table and see if you won the hand.

The only issue is: Morinth has the winning hand - every time.


Personally, I only recruited her once, and that was just to see what it was like.  I found the entire process to be disagreeable, as I really like Samarra.  Renegade can involve some seriously cold and harsh decisions, like killing a team member on her/its loyalty quests.  Dominate is a really good talent/bility though, except Harbinger always takes over the one I Dominate.

Karma will get Renegade Shepard, and it does if you meld with Morinth.

[Sshodan]

1. Don't make her pose as Samara, let her be herself, other ways there is no point in replacing Samara with her.
2. Give some resolution for her being Ardat-Yakshi - right now she has to die simply for what she is, for a birth defect, if we get a way for her to live without killing it would make recruiting her more appealing - it never sat right with me that her mother is on a mad quest to kill her for something she has no control over, there has to be a better way to deal with the issue.
3. Make it possible to recruit her without outright killing Samara.

Modifié par Sshodan, 11 juillet 2011 - 10:34 .

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Does Morinth enjoy killing or is she just a sex addict and killing is a by-product of her condition? Does she feel remorse for killing? Does she ever get lonely? Even if she knew melding with Shep would probably kill him/her did she hope that he/she would survive? Or is she just manipulating Shepard? I'm really hoping some of these questions will be answered in ME3, as of now there's so much about Morinth I'm just not certain about.

Morinth must be good at what she does because I find myself feeling sympathetic towards her even though she's a serial killer that's been killing since before Jack the Ripper was even born.

[Swimming Ferret]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

Does Morinth enjoy killing or is
she just a sex addict and killing is a by-product of her condition? Does
she feel remorse for killing? Does she ever get lonely?

If you talk to Morinth she'll admit that she does get very loney, due to not being able to truly get close to anyone. It makes me sad and sympathetic towards her, since it's no fault of Morinth's for her condition; she was born like that and the rush of killing people gets overwhelming like an addiction.



My Renegade b*tch Shepard loves Morinth; Even my paragons found her immensely interesting and were hard pressed to resist her.

My Renegade Shep is strong enough to completely resist Morinth, and she knows how invaluable an Ardat-Yakshi is; Someone who can kill via sex? That's the ultimate assassin lol. My Shep isn't daft though, she's not stupid enough to meld with Morinth, no matter how much she likes her. But she'll let Morinth have free range on anyone during shore leave so she won't kill anyone of importance >:3 (Lol, where's Kelly when you need her, hurr hurr)

Modifié par Swimming Ferret, 11 juillet 2011 - 11:37 .

[Xeranx]

PMC65 wrote...

I am not referring to Morinth's character but to the Ardat-Yakshi as a whole. They are asaris living with a genetic "curse" that does not allow them a normal life. That is part of who they are and to have a magic pill or say that Shepard is an exception is watering down what they are. If people want to love Morinth, no problem. But as Bioware revealed, Shepard is not a blue pill ... he cannot have her "asari meld-style" because he is somehow "special". That is not my opinion but Bioware's reveal if you try and meld with her. You don't like it ... let Bioware know.

If you want to be with Morinth and you think that she loves you ... fair enough. Just plan on having sex physically and not the "melding" way .... at least in ME2. Maybe you can try again in ME 3. 

As to her motivation? I neither touched on that nor do I have a clue since in my games she never leaves Omega. As I said previously, she is the Ted Bundy of the game to me. I both love & hate the moments that my Shepard has to spend with her since she freaks me. Samara's loyality mission is a great little horror flick to me and I struggle getting through it.

Do you think they would be watered down if a cure was found for their condition?

I don't think Bioware revealed anything in that sequence as the game over screen caused me to go back to other saves to see if there was something I did wrong.  If there was supposed to be a reveal that Shepard couldn't withstand the meld then they did a poor job of it.

In any case, Shepard being able to withstand the meld is a tragic event all by itself because he/she won't be there for the rest of Morinth's life.  She still has about 500+ more years left and Shepard (being 31 in ME2) has probably as many as --IIRC Kahlee Sanders is 60 but looks 40-- 40 years left as an able-bodied human being with possibly an additional 20+ years due to genetic enhancements and natural biology.  At some point Shepard's going to break down long before Morinth comes within 10 years of being 600.

Also, it seems as if you're implying that their condition is something they wanted.  Where I get that is in the colored section.  Just as an example: Women getting the right to vote didn't water them down.  Various ethnicities achieving rights and the right to vote didn't water them down.  A person who lost their legs in a war isn't watered down by regaining the ability to walk with protheses.  All the aforementioned are people who had to suffer or endure times of great stress for no other reason other than things just happened to them in the case of the person without legs or because of the circumstances of their birth for the others.  

If a cure is found for their condition the Ardat Yakshi would be uplifted.  They would gain what many women and ethnicities didn't have before achieving equal rights in being able to live free like every caucasian man did or having a chance at normal life after being restricted from the many joys of life like the person without legs.  They would be able to live their lives like every other free Asari.  

[AngelicMachinery]

I don’t think there needs to be a reveal because well, Samara (Who doesn’t seem prone to lying) explicitly states that people DO NOT EVER survive a melding with a space succubus. You can probably counter with “NO wai she’s totally lying” But, I suspect that goes against her code.

I personally could care less how “Tragic” the condition is. I think it’d be a simple cop out to allow Shepard to have a healthy relationship with an intergalactic sex demon just “Because.” I don’t care how renegade you are or how Shepard can kill the reapers. There are universal facts that can’t be dismissed no matter what your level of awesome is, and having mind sex with a vampire from space always results in death.

Listen I don’t really get your comparison to them with the minorities and the repressed. Sure, they didn’t choose to be monsters but, Morinth chose to meld with someone the first time, and many times after that, she knew what was going to happen. As I see it she’s no more sympathetic than someone with a deadly disease who sleeps with someone knowing full well that they are risking the other persons life.

You may want a cure, but, yes, I think it will “Water down” her condition. She’s a monster, this has absolutely nothing to do with woman’s suffrage. People out there just want a chance to sleep with the most hyper sexualized woman in Mass Effect.

[Xeranx]

You know Samara isn't prone to lying because what? She told you? Because other Asari said so? I guess there are no dirty cops correct? *sigh* Seriously, and you've tried calling me out on idealizing a character.

How exactly will Morinth be watered down if a cure actually liberates her from her condition? She's trapped. A slave was defined as property. Everything they are and their purpose exists to serve someone else without so much as a thank you. They didn't get paid and they were fed the barest of scraps to ensure they lived to continue their function. A descendant of a slave (who didn't have the ability to walk into any store they wanted, go into any restroom they needed to, drink from any water fountain, or have any say in who gets to choose who represents them in government) now finds that they can go anywhere and vote in any election. Is that person watered down? That the means to which they were kept separate-but-equal were finally removed is an uplifting event. It gives them strength rather than reduces them in power which is what slavery did. It's what denial of the right to vote did, or drinking from a particular water fountain, etc. If you can't see the similarities then there's no point in continuing this particular discussion with you.

As I've referenced earlier and in a bunch of many threads that it's hard to keep track, she is underdeveloped. If she were actually looking for a cure for herself or others like her it's not out of the realm of possibility and no one can say that she is or isn't pursuing a cure with any authority. To try and state, factually, that Morinth is clearly out to kill as many as she can is ridiculous given what we are in-game as there's nothing to state her motivations. The reasoning behind Nef's death isn't even revealed though a dialogue option states an investigation will be done but never is.

An individual surviving the meld is not a cop out in any way, shape, or form. You're only basis for it being a cop out is in Shepard being that individual who survives. But it's still not an eye-rolling scenario because Shepard represents a stop gap in Morinth's condition. Shepard being human makes it severely temporary. If it were to be Shiala with her biotics being effected, would it be a cop out? Would it be a cop out if the Rachni had the ability to cure the condition since they can touch the minds of others?

You've chosen to ignore my examples rather than process them. Seeing that you think people 'just want a chance to sleep with the most hyper sexualized woman in Mass Effect' is all the proof I need to know that you're not looking at the argument, but inferring what you want to infer.

Modifié par Xeranx, 11 juillet 2011 - 06:29 .

[Medhia Nox]

@Xeranx - but Ardat Yakshi have existed as long as the Asari.

Don't you think Samara - before joining the Justicars - would have searched the universe over for a cure for her three daughters?

Don't you think that the Asari race would have searched the universe - spending trillions to discover the cure for the "space vampire" curse?

====

Shepard finding a cure for Morinth at the same time that he rose from the dead and defeated the super-power eternally awesome Reapers... would just be one more step away from anything even remotely plausible.

At some point - all these "miraculous" events just turns Shepard into a wizard.

[AngelicMachinery]

Samara isn’t a cop honey (You know, Asari have normal police officers).  She’s a hard core extremist who’s one and only motivation is to uphold the law,  lying doesn't mesh well with her particular brand of justice.  Which, says something about the insanity that happens to manifest in the form of Samara.  She’s not a perfect character,  she’s a flawed and tragic character (just as much as her daught) but,  if she doesn’t live by the code her very being particularly in the reality of the games is thrown under the bus.  Just as Morinth's very nature is based on being a sex demon

The character will be water down, because her defining characteristic is brain eating cannibal.  Sure,  she might be trapped in it,  but, the girl embraces it entirely.  You are also of course assuming that the character will desire a cure to her condition,  when it seems that the girl has a bit of a death fetish,  and without her abilities she’ll have to wait to gain power instead of simply taking it through a few seconds of mind bonding with random strangers.

Also,  no one looking for a cure would say that “We are the genetic destiny of the Asari.”  Which suggests that she in fact sees herself as superior than her cthulu headed sisters.  Rogue from the X-men she is not.  She's playing the wounded little girl for your benefit,  not hers,  she has FUN and that's the reason she's on the suicide mission.

Xeranx wrote...


An individual surviving the meld is not a cop out in any way, shape, or form. You're only basis for it being a cop out is in Shepard being that individual who survives. But it's still not an eye-rolling scenario because Shepard represents a stop gap in Morinth's condition. Shepard being human makes it severely temporary. If it were to be Shiala with her biotics being effected, would it be a cop out? Would it be a cop out if the Rachni had the ability to cure the condition since they can touch the minds of others?

It's an eye rolling situation if it's ANYONE,  the Asari are an ancient civilization you would think that by now someone,  anyone would have survive that particular meeting of the minds but obviously they haven't.  I don't care if it's Shiala,  and I would be gravely dissapointed if the entire rachni species wasn't brain fried by melding with Morinth (As I've spared both...  this might be an interesting way to increase her power to fight the reapers.)  Truthfully,  if you remove the predatory aspect of the girl...  you've just turned her into Edward Cullen from twilight.  Do you really,  really, want that?

And I chose to ignore your examples because none of them are apt.   None of them chose to indulge in murderous behaviour.  You can say she's a victim of her circumstance,  but,  one cannot simply ignore the less than savoury things that she has done, that she has chose to do.  Your comparing true victims to someone with a victim's complex.

I like Morinth,  I really do...  but,  I think it would be a cop out if she simply "Got better" and her and Shepard had a beautiful relationship with 2.5 kids.  She both loves and hates her condition,  but the girl wouldn't give it up willingly.

Modifié par AngelicMachinery, 11 juillet 2011 - 06:46 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Medhia Nox wrote...

At some point - all these "miraculous" events just turns Shepard into a wizard.

"A wizard did it."

Modifié par AngelicMachinery, 11 juillet 2011 - 06:47 .

[ThePwener]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

At some point - all these "miraculous" events just turns Shepard into a wizard.

*snip*

"A wizard did it."

http://t0.gstatic.co...jpF9bz5Hw9A&t=1

Does THAT thing look like a wizard to you!? Even Miranda is all "This thing is supposed to save us?".

[Xeranx]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Xeranx - but Ardat Yakshi have existed as long as the Asari.

Don't you think Samara - before joining the Justicars - would have searched the universe over for a cure for her three daughters?

Don't you think that the Asari race would have searched the universe - spending trillions to discover the cure for the "space vampire" curse?

====

Shepard finding a cure for Morinth at the same time that he rose from the dead and defeated the super-power eternally awesome Reapers... would just be one more step away from anything even remotely plausible.

At some point - all these "miraculous" events just turns Shepard into a wizard.

I don't know if Samara looked for a cure or just followed the status quo.  Likewise I don't know if the Asari as a whole looked for a cure.  It could be like us present day: people are working, going to movies, eating, playing with their kids, nephews, nieces, grandkids - yet out of the millions doing regular activities only a fraction of them donate to causes they deem worthwhile.  A fraction of that are actively working on finding cures of diseases we encounter everyday.  In Samara's case it could be that once she found out about her daughters' condition she started looking for treatments.  I would hope that she did look for any possible cures, but in the end I just don't know.

As to the last part of your post: 
Who says Shepard's not a wizard? 

[Dean_the_Young]

There's also the possibility that something might have been discovered in the last, oh, 300 years.

No? Really?

[Xeranx]

AngelicMachinery wrote...


Samara isn’t a cop honey (You know, Asari have normal police officers).  She’s a hard core extremist who’s one and only motivation is to uphold the law,  lying doesn't mesh well with her particular brand of justice.  Which, says something about the insanity that happens to manifest in the form of Samara.  She’s not a perfect character,  she’s a flawed and tragic character (just as much as her daught) but,  if she doesn’t live by the code her very being particularly in the reality of the games is thrown under the bus.  Just as Morinth's very nature is based on being a sex demon.

I don't know if the 'honey' bit is condescension or not. Everytiem I read it it comes off that way.  I won't respond to it however...just in case.

May Fed is better?  CIA operative?  Does it really matter?  Who serves justice?  Who are those entrusted to enforce that justice be served?  I guess a better all-inclusive title is Law Enforcement Official.

The fact of the matter is that the code that Samara's supposed to follow is extreme.  She's made extreme with the implication that she follows that code, but does she follow it?  If Shepard weren't around and Anaya went to arrest Samara, would she have died?  What about Shepard made him/her so awesome that Samara took the word of an outsider when the representative for order on Illium should have sufficed?  Shepard even states that the Eclipse sister she killed is unarmed and you saw that before the murder occurred, but Samara argues against that.  You don't think she's capable of lying?

Lying doesn't mesh well with any form of law enforcement with regards to the official representative performing their duties, but it happens...all...the...time.

The character will be water down, because her defining characteristic is brain eating cannibal.  Sure,  she might be trapped in it,  but, the girl embraces it entirely.  You are also of course assuming that the character will desire a cure to her condition,  when it seems that the girl has a bit of a death fetish,  and without her abilities she’ll have to wait to gain power instead of simply taking it through a few seconds of mind bonding with random strangers.

Also,  no one looking for a cure would say that “We are the genetic destiny of the Asari.”  Which suggests that she in fact sees herself as superior than her cthulu headed sisters.  Rogue from the X-men she is not.  She's playing the wounded little girl for your benefit,  not hers,  she has FUN and that's the reason she's on the suicide mission.

That is exactly why I brought up the many who were once regarded as less than they are today.  Jack being introduced as this all powerful biotic in cutscenes and then being, maybe, stronger than Mordin in regular combat is watering her down.  Finding a way to deal with a condition that prevents Morinth from living a regular Asari lifestyle is not watering her down.

I don't know the basis for her comment.  It could be crazy or it could be she's been working on something to overcome her condition.  If I posit the latter try and prove me wrong.  Also if Morinth felt she were superior do you think she would be running?  This is one of a few bits that I can believe Samara on because she never got the chance to confront her in an enclosed space until Shepard got her alone in her apartment.  And if you say that she wanted to avoid killing her mother then those that think she can't care for others would have to change their answer because it would be an example of sentimentality on Morinth's part. 

It's an eye rolling situation if it's ANYONE,  the Asari are an ancient civilization you would think that by now someone,  anyone would have survive that particular meeting of the minds but obviously they haven't.  I don't care if it's Shiala,  and I would be gravely dissapointed if the entire rachni species wasn't brain fried by melding with Morinth (As I've spared both...  this might be an interesting way to increase her power to fight the reapers.)  Truthfully,  if you remove the predatory aspect of the girl...  you've just turned her into Edward Cullen from twilight.  Do you really,  really, want that?

It's an eye rolling situation because it goes against what you want.  Not because of what could be possible.  You also don't know if anyone has ever survived the meld.  Where is your proof that it hasn't happened? 

So your not wanting Morinth to be cured is in reference to something from another book or movie that you don't want to see?  No, you want Morinth to "remain a monster".  Evil for evil's sake.  I've so tired of those kinds of characters and find them completely banal.  If she could be this monster that everyone wants her to remain and she were a three-dimensional character I'd deal with it and move on, but that's rarely the case...if ever.  They're rarely ever three-dimensional.  

And I chose to ignore your examples because none of them are apt.   None of them chose to indulge in murderous behaviour.  You can say she's a victim of her circumstance,  but,  one cannot simply ignore the less than savoury things that she has done, that she has chose to do.  Your comparing true victims to someone with a victim's complex.

If I were to say you're missing the forest for the trees would that be applicable?  Because you're obviously hung up on what Morinth's done and not what or who she is.  You're defining her as a person with a victims complex nevermind that her condition is not one that she chose.  She was born with this.    Through what's gone on in the story I believe Morinth is the last.  She has two other sisters in captivity.  Samara engaged in more than two acts of melding/sex with another Asari and gave birth to (what many Asari consider to be) three defective children.  She did this knowing that she, herself, is a pureblood Asari and you think Morinth is just someone with a victim's complex?

Any individual forced into a situation that robs them of freedom to act as everyone else does is a victim.  Should I invoke the images of those preyed upon by child molestors to make it more palpable for you?  Would it be more apt if I were to invoke what most molested children are recorded to do when they reach adulthood themselves since your focus isn't the individual, but the deeds carried out by the individual?

I like Morinth,  I really do...  but,  I think it would be a cop out if she simply "Got better" and her and Shepard had a beautiful relationship with 2.5 kids.  She both loves and hates her condition,  but the girl wouldn't give it up willingly.

We don't know if she's willing to or unwilling to give up her condition.  That goes to make a statement on her motivations which we have no clue of.  I don't remember saying that she will get better with Shepard.  I certainly didn't say anything of her and Shepard having children.  Of course those could be happy biproducts of such a union, but I did state how tragic that course would be considering how termporary that relationship will be.  

[AngelicMachinery]

I’m not speculating though, everything about Samara has confirmed that she is the epitome of the Justicar. She hasn’t given anyone reason to doubt her acceptance of the code. She’s tenacious and absolutely cold hearted, but, I’m not sure anyone could argue against her convictions to the asari idea of justice. You’d have to use information not provided by the game itself to prove that she’s not. This of course doesn’t make her a good portion, she’s a cold and callous individual. Neither her nor Morinth are what I would classify as “good people.”

That is exactly why I brought up the many who were once regarded as less than they are today. Jack being introduced as this all powerful biotic in cutscenes and then being, maybe, stronger than Mordin in regular combat is watering her down. Finding a way to deal with a condition that prevents Morinth from living a regular Asari lifestyle is not watering her down.

I don't know the basis for her comment. It could be crazy or it could be she's been working on something to overcome her condition. If I posit the latter try and prove me wrong. Also if Morinth felt she were superior do you think she would be running? This is one of a few bits that I can believe Samara on because she never got the chance to confront her in an enclosed space until Shepard got her alone in her apartment. And if you say that she wanted to avoid killing her mother then those that think she can't care for others would have to change their answer because it would be an example of sentimentality on Morinth's part.

I’m not even sure what your saying here, it might be my fault… but, I don’t understand the basis for this argument at all. Particularly bringing up the fact that she is running away, one can still believe themselves superior to the average individual while realizing that the typical human/asari/ or what not can kill you particularly when the person hunting you has centuries more experience than you. Morinth runs because she knows she can’t take her mother alone, Samara pursues because she doesn’t care. The fact that our lovely sex vampire is a perfect match for a matriarch suggests that there are serious benefits to her condition.

Particularly when you say things like “This is one of the few bits I can trust Samara.” It seems like your grasping at straws, she’s shown herself to be rather honest to a fault. Unless somehow you’ve been given a game with a deceitful Justicar and I have not.

It's an eye rolling situation because it goes against what you want. Not because of what could be possible. You also don't know if anyone has ever survived the meld. Where is your proof that it hasn't happened?

So your not wanting Morinth to be cured is in reference to something from another book or movie that you don't want to see? No, you want Morinth to "remain a monster". Evil for evil's sake. I've so tired of those kinds of characters and find them completely banal. If she could be this monster that everyone wants her to remain and she were a three-dimensional character I'd deal with it and move on, but that's rarely the case...if ever. They're rarely ever three-dimensional.

You for the most part simply seem to be arguing that you want Morinth, just “Cause.” You think that for some reason her being a truly evil character takes away from her. Just as much as I think removing her nature as a serial killer will remove what I find to be core to her being. The thing is, what I’m arguing for is supported by the game, while, you on the other hand are simply arguing against it. She’s a manipulative schemer and changing that for the sake of changing that isn’t going to make her a better character, it’s just going to make her one more in another long line of females that Shepard twisted around his finger. Like Tali, damn girl went from a strong woman in my eyes to a doe eyed idiot who would happily risk sickness for a taste of shepard’s heat sink. Not every woman needs to be turned into a damn sex toy, particularly when the woman eats your brain through sex.

If I were to say you're missing the forest for the trees would that be applicable? Because you're obviously hung up on what Morinth's done and not what or who she is. You're defining her as a person with a victims complex nevermind that her condition is not one that she chose. She was born with this. Through what's gone on in the story I believe Morinth is the last. She has two other sisters in captivity. Samara engaged in more than two acts of melding/sex with another Asari and gave birth to (what many Asari consider to be) three defective children. She did this knowing that she, herself, is a pureblood Asari and you think Morinth is just someone with a victim's complex?

Any individual forced into a situation that robs them of freedom to act as everyone else does is a victim. Should I invoke the images of those preyed upon by child molestors to make it more palpable for you? Would it be more apt if I were to invoke what most molested children are recorded to do when they reach adulthood themselves since your focus isn't the individual, but the deeds carried out by the individual?

She didn’t choose her condition, she CHOSE to act on it. Obviously asari can enter seclusion to keep from killing people. It seems a logical conclusion really. Unfortunately, you seem to be arguing to allow anyone with a mental disorder free reign to kill anyone and everything and than comparing that to granting woman the right to vote. Do you understand how absolutely giggle inducing that sounds? I would be more inclined to catagorize her as a victim if she hadn’t chosen to kill people, or if she decided to kill people who WANTED it. I have no problem with euthanasia but as soon as she starts killing innocent victims she has gone from a tragic figure to a villain. Just as her mother who seems to think it’s okay to pop off cops because it’s “In the code.”

People have free will, if they go and make themselves monsters in the images of their abusers they’re no better than them and they deserve no sympathy. They understand the feeling of victimization, if anything that only makes them worse in my eyes.

It’s not like Morinth is Lenny from of mice and men, she’s making a choice to indulge her in lethal sexuality. The girl is smart.

We don't know if she's willing to or unwilling to give up her condition. That goes to make a statement on her motivations which we have no clue of. I don't remember saying that she will get better with Shepard. I certainly didn't say anything of her and Shepard having children. Of course those could be happy biproducts of such a union, but I did state how tragic that course would be considering how termporary that relationship will be.

It’ll be an ass pull if she simply just can’t kill Shepard because how awesome he is. Fortunately, it seems bioware themselves agree with this statement and made melding with her cause a game over screen.

[Slurms McKenzie]

@ThePwener

That is a Shep to be proud of!

Good Luck and Stay Safe

[PMC65]

Xeranx wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

I am not referring to Morinth's character but to the Ardat-Yakshi as a whole. They are asaris living with a genetic "curse" that does not allow them a normal life. That is part of who they are and to have a magic pill or say that Shepard is an exception is watering down what they are. If people want to love Morinth, no problem. But as Bioware revealed, Shepard is not a blue pill ... he cannot have her "asari meld-style" because he is somehow "special". That is not my opinion but Bioware's reveal if you try and meld with her. You don't like it ... let Bioware know.

If you want to be with Morinth and you think that she loves you ... fair enough. Just plan on having sex physically and not the "melding" way .... at least in ME2. Maybe you can try again in ME 3. 

As to her motivation? I neither touched on that nor do I have a clue since in my games she never leaves Omega. As I said previously, she is the Ted Bundy of the game to me. I both love & hate the moments that my Shepard has to spend with her since she freaks me. Samara's loyality mission is a great little horror flick to me and I struggle getting through it.

Do you think they would be watered down if a cure was found for their condition?

I don't think Bioware revealed anything in that sequence as the game over screen caused me to go back to other saves to see if there was something I did wrong.  If there was supposed to be a reveal that Shepard couldn't withstand the meld then they did a poor job of it.

In any case, Shepard being able to withstand the meld is a tragic event all by itself because he/she won't be there for the rest of Morinth's life.  She still has about 500+ more years left and Shepard (being 31 in ME2) has probably as many as --IIRC Kahlee Sanders is 60 but looks 40-- 40 years left as an able-bodied human being with possibly an additional 20+ years due to genetic enhancements and natural biology.  At some point Shepard's going to break down long before Morinth comes within 10 years of being 600.

Also, it seems as if you're implying that their condition is something they wanted.  Where I get that is in the colored section.  Just as an example: Women getting the right to vote didn't water them down.  Various ethnicities achieving rights and the right to vote didn't water them down.  A person who lost their legs in a war isn't watered down by regaining the ability to walk with protheses.  All the aforementioned are people who had to suffer or endure times of great stress for no other reason other than things just happened to them in the case of the person without legs or because of the circumstances of their birth for the others.  

If a cure is found for their condition the Ardat Yakshi would be uplifted.  They would gain what many women and ethnicities didn't have before achieving equal rights in being able to live free like every caucasian man did or having a chance at normal life after being restricted from the many joys of life like the person without legs.  They would be able to live their lives like every other free Asari.  

Saw this response a little late and to be honest I am confused how womens rights and colored section plays into this ... oh, well. All I can say is that Samara looked for a cure as she tells Shepard and even says something along the line of not having "magic" to fix it. I'm at work so I can't replay that part to get the right dialogue.

To your question "Do you think they would be watered down if a cure was found for their condition?" ... yes. If Morinth is cured then she is just another asari and not a glorious Ardat-Yakshi. Her impact in the game would have been diminished since it is the fact that she is an A-Y that strikes "fear". My Shepard has fought tons of asari but being around her was different. He realized that unlike a regular asari she was a predator that through pleasure took your life force. An asari might "singularity" your as5 ... but an Ardat-Yakshi would reel you in with seductive promises like a spider. This is much more powerful & disarming and therefore more dangerous. 

And not only does Samara and Aria talk about what happens when someone melds with an A-Y, along with Shepard seeing how the poor Omega girl didn't survive, but if you do meld with her in ME2 you will clearly see that Shepard will not survive the meld (Critical Mission Failure) so I think that Bioware was pretty upfront on the consequences. One of my friends tried melding and was so pissed that he died. He felt that he had been lied to, that he should have lived. Never mind the warning signs all through the game. Now if you choose to re-play and put the meld off until ME3 ... good luck. I wish your Shepard well. Maybe in ME3 you will get your wish and a cure will be found or your Shepard will somehow become immune to her. Who knows.

And I am not sure how you are reading what I write because I did not imply that she wanted this just that this is who she is. Does she want to be an A-Y? I don't think her sisters do since they took the seclusion path ... Morinth? I have no idea ... maybe on the Normandy she says that she doesn't want that life and that she is ready to join her sisters. No idea. I'll have to leave that to those who saved her and became her BFF.  

As previously stated, I like/loathe how she makes my Shepard feel ... think Hannibal Lecter. They are both fascinating people, but I do not want to be in a room unprotected with either.
Especially with a bottle of Chianti & fava beans.

[Xeranx]

AngelicMachinery wrote...
I’m not speculating though, everything about Samara has confirmed that she is the epitome of the Justicar. She hasn’t given anyone reason to doubt her acceptance of the code. She’s tenacious and absolutely cold hearted, but, I’m not sure anyone could argue against her convictions to the asari idea of justice. You’d have to use information not provided by the game itself to prove that she’s not. This of course doesn’t make her a good portion, she’s a cold and callous individual. Neither her nor Morinth are what I would classify as “good people.”

The code she's supposed to follow is representative of what Asari laws were way back when.  Anaya gave the impression that Asari society has moved away from that, but kept the Justicar order.  That seems like a real conflict of interest so what is the Asari idea of justice?

I’m not even sure what your saying here, it might be my fault… but, I don’t understand the basis for this argument at all. Particularly bringing up the fact that she is running away, one can still believe themselves superior to the average individual while realizing that the typical human/asari/ or what not can kill you particularly when the person hunting you has centuries more experience than you. Morinth runs because she knows she can’t take her mother alone, Samara pursues because she doesn’t care. The fact that our lovely sex vampire is a perfect match for a matriarch suggests that there are serious benefits to her condition.

Particularly when you say things like “This is one of the few bits I can trust Samara.” It seems like your grasping at straws, she’s shown herself to be rather honest to a fault. Unless somehow you’ve been given a game with a deceitful Justicar and I have not.

That bit was messy.  What I was saying is Jack as a squadmate is a watered down version of Jack taking on three ymir mechs at the same time.  I was making that connection because what Jack did in a cutscene is vastly different from what she does as a squadmate.  The same, however, is not the case in Morinth being an Ardat-Yakshi today and then not being one because a way is found for her to deal with her condition later.
In other words Jack's character is watered down because she's not what she was said to be.  Morinth becoming more like regular Asari would not be a watering down of her character as there would be further development.  She'd have to get used to what she is.  She may retain her abilities and/or strength with biotics or she might lose them.  Either way her character expands to more than it is currently.

When I say that it's one of the few bits I can trust Samara on it's not that I'm grasping at straws.  I'm looking at what's being presented and I'm not liking what I'm getting.  My first run through ME2 had me keep Samara.  After everything I got from that I started noticing that I was getting a whole lot of information on a target by said target's would-be killer.  The whole lot of it is negative with a smattering of positive anecdotes.  Those anecdotes make me believe I'm being played especially when the subject falls to tracking the target to kill her.  If it was about detaining Morinth it would have been different.  Knowing that the goal was to kill Morinth colors the whole thing.

You for the most part simply seem to be arguing that you want Morinth, just “Cause.” You think that for some reason her being a truly evil character takes away from her. Just as much as I think removing her nature as a serial killer will remove what I find to be core to her being. The thing is, what I’m arguing for is supported by the game, while, you on the other hand are simply arguing against it. She’s a manipulative schemer and changing that for the sake of changing that isn’t going to make her a better character, it’s just going to make her one more in another long line of females that Shepard twisted around his finger. Like Tali, damn girl went from a strong woman in my eyes to a doe eyed idiot who would happily risk sickness for a taste of shepard’s heat sink. Not every woman needs to be turned into a damn sex toy, particularly when the woman eats your brain through sex.

I feel that anyone being a truly evil character without the possibility of being fleshed out takes away from a character.  If I'm unable to see why a two-dimensional or one dimensional villain is as they are then I'm convinved that I'm not getting the whole story.  If I feel I'm not getting the whole story then I feel that character is incomplete.  Seeing as the only information I'm getting involving why Morinth does as she does is from her would-be killer and not seeing it or hearing it from the source itself in one form or another I can't say that she's complete.  I've brought that up many times and each time I've not seen anyone disagree with me on that front.  Morinth is underdeveloped.  As such there's nothing to say that she's the way she is and must stay that way when even the dimensions you see aren't set in stone.

For example:
In a Spider-man comic I saw the Chameleon take a guy whose job it is to dress up as the Statue of Liberty and just stand on the sidewalk.  The Chameleon kills said guy after copying his face and learning to mimic his voice.  Later the Chameleon assumes the role of Lady Liberty, tags Peter Parker on the street with a sedative and takes him back to his hideout to perform the same ritual he did with the original guy who played the part of Lady Liberty.  Apparently after he kills his victims he does something for them to leave them better remembered by others as payment for the use of their identity.  In any case, the Chameleon takes these two people, kills one, and attempts to kill the other so he could get into a secret meeting.

Now the bit about him paying back the memories of his victims, I feel, is a nice touch.  It's not something I need in order to figure out that the Chameleon is a bad guy, but he does perform acts that can be or can be made visible.  He kills and assumes the identity of his victims.  If, while assuming the identity of a victim, he's found out you can be safe to assume that something may have happened to the person whose identity he stole.  

In Morinth's case, we don't get anywhere near that.  Not even a sliver.  There's nothing obvious about anything she's done.  She talks about Nef, but Nef's ability to score a password to the VIP section of Afterlife (which is the reason she's dead) is entirely suspect.  There's no rhyme or reason for it given what her mother tells us.

She didn’t choose her condition, she CHOSE to act on it. Obviously asari can enter seclusion to keep from killing people. It seems a logical conclusion really. Unfortunately, you seem to be arguing to allow anyone with a mental disorder free reign to kill anyone and everything and than comparing that to granting woman the right to vote. Do you understand how absolutely giggle inducing that sounds? I would be more inclined to catagorize her as a victim if she hadn’t chosen to kill people, or if she decided to kill people who WANTED it. I have no problem with euthanasia but as soon as she starts killing innocent victims she has gone from a tragic figure to a villain. Just as her mother who seems to think it’s okay to pop off cops because it’s “In the code.”
People have free will, if they go and make themselves monsters in the images of their abusers they’re no better than them and they deserve no sympathy. They understand the feeling of victimization, if anything that only makes them worse in my eyes. 

It’s not like Morinth is Lenny from of mice and men, she’s making a choice to indulge her in lethal sexuality. The girl is smart.

In order to say that she chose to act on it you would have to be sure that she knew about it before hand.  Samara says it manifests at maturity.  If it's unknown to Morinth when she reaches maturity and she engages in a meld is she responsible for what happens afterward?  You're also assuming she had the ability to stop herself in the beginning.  I don't remember that coming up so I can't say for sure if that's what happened.

And I have to say you're wholly wrong on the section in bold.  I didn't do anything of the sort.  I made mention to Morinth not being able to live as regular Asari do and how it's similar to women being treated as unequal to men or various ethnicities being denied personhood so they could not live just as the whites/white men do.  Is that still giggle inducing?  

You acknowledged that she may be trapped, but didn't understand the connection I was trying to make?  That she was being surpressed?

As to who Morinth kills, we still do not know who she's targeted in the past.  We only have Nef and her ability to gain access to the VIP section is flimsy.  There's nothing that says that Morinth didn't kill innocents and there's nothing that says that she didn't focus on killing only criminals.  With that in mind what exactly makes her stand out as being thoroughly evil?

It’ll be an ass pull if she simply just can’t kill Shepard because how awesome he is. Fortunately, it seems bioware themselves agree with this statement and made melding with her cause a game over screen.

Which, as I expressed, was confusing.  You're making a case of it being a statement from Bioware that it's impossible, but then it should have led to chaos breaking out on the ship.  Given that there's little to no details regarding her motivations I'm left to think either it's not meant to happen, or it's not meant to happen in ME2.  Both could be right, correct?

Modifié par Xeranx, 12 juillet 2011 - 05:37 .

[demonic_cookie]

With that in mind what exactly makes her stand out as being thoroughly evil?

She rapes people. She tried to rape Shepard, mind-control him/her into having sex with her that would lead to death. If that's not evil enough for you, I don't know what is.

Modifié par demonic_cookie, 12 juillet 2011 - 07:13 .

[AquamanOS]

Morinth's pretty much irredeemable. She's a sociopath serial killer. The only reason to keep her around is if you want a useful tool as a Renagade, as she's a powerful Asari and won't give you a hard time about making less than just choices down the road like Samara will. And you've proven to be able to resist her mind control.

Unless you can't, because it becomes very obvious she's only sticking around with Shepard to get another chance at eating your brain if you meld with her. Because Morinth doesn't like to lose and Shepard is her chosen prey.

The most Renegade way to handle Morinth I think is to kill Samara (to avoid her coming after you for your Renagade actions) let Morinth join you and get good use of her but deliberately get her killed in the SM by making her 2nd team leader. She's served her purpose but she'll be a threat, and you have a much more reliable Asari in Liara rejoining in ME3, who's both as powerful as them, but isn't justice obsessed, or a serial killer hungry for your brain.

[Xeranx]

demonic_cookie wrote...

With that in mind what exactly makes her stand out as being thoroughly evil?

She rapes people. She tried to rape Shepard, mind-control him/her into having sex with her that would lead to death. If that's not evil enough for you, I don't know what is.

Wrong.

AquamanOS wrote...

Morinth's pretty much irredeemable. She's a sociopath serial killer. The only reason to keep her around is if you want a useful tool as a Renagade, as she's a powerful Asari and won't give you a hard time about making less than just choices down the road like Samara will. And you've proven to be able to resist her mind control.

Unless you can't, because it becomes very obvious she's only sticking around with Shepard to get another chance at eating your brain if you meld with her. Because Morinth doesn't like to lose and Shepard is her chosen prey.

The most Renegade way to handle Morinth I think is to kill Samara (to avoid her coming after you for your Renagade actions) let Morinth join you and get good use of her but deliberately get her killed in the SM by making her 2nd team leader. She's served her purpose but she'll be a threat, and you have a much more reliable Asari in Liara rejoining in ME3, who's both as powerful as them, but isn't justice obsessed, or a serial killer hungry for your brain.

http://www.merriam-w...ry/irredeemable

2: being beyond remedy : Hopeless

Actually, Morinth is a completely redeemable character.  The absence of any explanations for any motivations she has leaves her open to be redeemed.  Her issues being bound within her ability to meld and that process being faulty allows for redemption because if there's a way to correct that part that is faulty she can begin living a normal Asari life.  Well, as close to it as possible considering she would have the memory of everything that happened to her and I don't know how that would affect her or if it would.  But because everything's left open, nothing definitive can be stated.

[demonic_cookie]

Wrong.

How is mind-controlling someone into sex not rape? Or are you actually going to say that rape is not an evil act?

[Xeranx]

demonic_cookie wrote...

Wrong.

How is mind-controlling someone into sex not rape? Or are you actually going to say that rape is not an evil act?

What aspect of a mind control ability did she exhibit apart from dominance in combat? Then ask yourself what has she been said to do to people before performing a meld?  Look at what happens with Shepard and ask if that's the same thing that happened with Nef.  Examine Nef's recordings and ask if the guy who wants to get into Morinth's pants exhibited the same behavior.

Rape is not an evil act. /sardonic

Modifié par Xeranx, 12 juillet 2011 - 05:00 .