44 réponses à ce sujet

[seirhart]

No I destroyed it 8 times, we do not need or require the base to defeat the reapers.

[Dean_the_Young]

And what does that have to do with the base being able to help you save more people and increase your chances of victory?

[Markinator_123]

I still support keeping the base (sometimes I blow it up).

[Kurt M.]

My Paragon Soldier didn't save it. But soon I'll re-create (I lost the pendrive where I had stored my saves...damnit) my Renegade Vanguard, and he'll save it.

[Zall]

I was always perplexed what people mean with Reaper technology. People who keep the base, assume that Cerbereus will develop new guns, anti-indoctrination devices and similar stuff, whereas people who blow it up are wary of Cerbereus using the slushification machines.

You have to consider that the Collector base is in unique, since that's the place where a new Reaper was supposed to be built. It poses the question: How did the Collectors do it and what for? Does the Reaper form have advantages? Is there a weakness, something each Reaper has in common? Oh, where do these tubes lead to?

Since it's Cerbereus we are talking about, they are going to take the most brutal and fastest path to discover more about Reapers. They will use the Collector base as it was used before, perhaps first with corpses as Reaper fuel. Then they will resort to using other species or eventually humans. What are a couple hundred lives compared to millions? Such way of thinking is a justification for any kind of crime.

I realize that destroying the base might bite my in the ass in the end, but I couldn't do it any other way.

[KevShep]

Even if its good to keep the base I dont think that it will matter if you keep it because whats stopping the reapers from retaking it before you acan do anything good with it? All they have to do is get to any relay and be in the omaga 4 relay in minutes/hours.

[Dean_the_Young]

Zall wrote...


Since it's Cerbereus we are talking about, they are going to take the most brutal and fastest path to discover more about Reapers. They will use the Collector base as it was used before, perhaps first with corpses as Reaper fuel. Then they will resort to using other species or eventually humans. What are a couple hundred lives compared to millions? Such way of thinking is a justification for any kind of crime.

Uh, that would be an incredibly stupid waste of resources. Besides the fact that the Reapers already, you know, said 'can't do' with most the races, the trouble you'd have to go through to capture the people to make a single Reaper, of any sort, even if it is 'loyal', would be far surpassed by the effect if you, well, didn't.

Reapers aren't advanced because they are made out of lives: they can be made out of lives because they are advanced. The technology behind them, the actually useful stuff, is smoothie-irrelevant: thannix, mass effect fields, cyberwarfare algorithims, mass effect core designs. These can be made from any sort of materials, like Pallidium. Or Iridium. Or plain old e-zero.


Ignorring the size and scale issues of a group of Cerberus's size abducting millions when Commander Shepard is out there with an IFF to hand over to anyone else should Cerberus start going crazy, it's still stupid. It doesn't provide unique gains (the technology can be constructed out of anything relevant), while it pretty much forces needless opposition and weakens (rather than strengthens) the galaxy as a whole because you're indulging in a zero-sum gain.

[somecthemes]

What is really suprising to read is that people can have only one ending. There are a couple here who said they have played things out both ways, but really a lot of people seem satified with a single playthrough or are just constantly choosing the same choices when playing.
So I'm obviously confused and if anyone could clarify the matter, I'd be grateful.
To add to the conversation, I've blown up the base 8 times and kept it 3, and would say that the ending where the base is destroyed is cinematically more interesting, especially when you have everyone survive.

[Labrev]

I'm of the ilk that saving the base to fight the Reapers is akin to the council's mistake in using the krogan to fight the rachni. Conquering the enemy by empowering one single entity/race/individual/whatever to become stronger than it ultimately creates a new, possibly worse, problem than before. Cerberus may not be particularly big or anything, but you can't underestimate what the technology in the base is capable of doing, or what Cerberus itself is capable of (TIM keeps us in the dark). There's no way to safely keep them in-check from getting carried away. No one can safely say that they won't end up becoming as bad/worse than the Reapers as a result of obtaining that technology. I myself would find it doubtful, but I'm not taking the chance.

For me, I just felt it "safer" to destroy it. I'm not opposed to using Reaper tech, but it has to be handled with extreme caution. Cerberus's propensity for failure can't be argued with either.


I will say this though, it would've been interesting to get some opposition to my decision rather than have everyone support it. And retconning the opinions of those in favor of keeping it was practically insulting. Why Grunt would even care, or why Legion would come up with a bogus idea of "build your own future" after coming up with a very logical and thought-out reasoning for keeping it, does not make sense to me.

Modifié par Hah Yes Reapers, 08 juillet 2011 - 05:11 .

[somecthemes]

I imagine many people from the 60's would have a definate understanding of the idea of "safer" to destroy it. Then, the with nukes being a hot button and just using the word "nuke" would stir up a debate, it was a common thought that destruction of the technology might be safer for the world than attempting to find a reasonable application. Now, though, so many games and movies use nukes as the end all solution to the problem and to some the idea of a dangerous weapon is only reference to who holds it.

[Zall]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Zall wrote...


Since it's Cerbereus we are talking about, they are going to take the most brutal and fastest path to discover more about Reapers. They will use the Collector base as it was used before, perhaps first with corpses as Reaper fuel. Then they will resort to using other species or eventually humans. What are a couple hundred lives compared to millions? Such way of thinking is a justification for any kind of crime.

Uh, that would be an incredibly stupid waste of resources. Besides the fact that the Reapers already, you know, said 'can't do' with most the races, the trouble you'd have to go through to capture the people to make a single Reaper, of any sort, even if it is 'loyal', would be far surpassed by the effect if you, well, didn't.

It's not that turians can't be slushified, but the Reapers most likely only accept the best. I imagine the process itself is the same which might allow to closer monitor how the Reaper is done.

Cerbereus does not want a docile Reaper, but want to find out how they "think" and why each Reaper is made from a different race.

wiggles89 wrote...

They will
use the Collector base as it was used before, perhaps first with
corpses as Reaper fuel. Then they will resort to using other species or
eventually humans. What are a couple hundred lives compared to millions?
Such way of thinking is a justification for any kind of crime.

All
indications are that you can't make Reapers out of other races, but
let's just suppose that it's possible to make Reapers out of turians,
salarians, etc. How in the world would Cerberus go about abducting
millions of people in order to build a Reaper?

I am not talking about Cerbereus about recreating a full-fledged Reaper,
but making experiments and doing what the Collectors did, but in much
smaller scale. Also, Harbringer indicated that the other races were inferior and therefore their transformation into a Reaper is more likely to fail.

[Labrev]

somecthemes wrote...

I imagine many people from the 60's would have a definate understanding of the idea of "safer" to destroy it. Then, the with nukes being a hot button and just using the word "nuke" would stir up a debate, it was a common thought that destruction of the technology might be safer for the world than attempting to find a reasonable application. Now, though, so many games and movies use nukes as the end all solution to the problem and to some the idea of a dangerous weapon is only reference to who holds it.

Is that a response to me?

You aren't understanding my thinking. The technology and studying it is not my main concern here.

[Dean_the_Young]

Zall wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Zall wrote...


Since it's Cerbereus we are talking about, they are going to take the most brutal and fastest path to discover more about Reapers. They will use the Collector base as it was used before, perhaps first with corpses as Reaper fuel. Then they will resort to using other species or eventually humans. What are a couple hundred lives compared to millions? Such way of thinking is a justification for any kind of crime.

Uh, that would be an incredibly stupid waste of resources. Besides the fact that the Reapers already, you know, said 'can't do' with most the races, the trouble you'd have to go through to capture the people to make a single Reaper, of any sort, even if it is 'loyal', would be far surpassed by the effect if you, well, didn't.

It's not that turians can't be slushified, but the Reapers most likely only accept the best. I imagine the process itself is the same which might allow to closer monitor how the Reaper is done.

Cerbereus does not want a docile Reaper, but want to find out how they "think" and why each Reaper is made from a different race.

And they can't use the perfectly good dead baby reaper and the rest of the technology to create and craft it because...?

You still haven't gotten to why or how the obstacles and opposition created by abducting a few million aliens (the equivalent needed for the Reaper larva we fought) outweighs the rather obvious, exceptional costs. (Nor have you really provided for why this would even create a functional Reaper mind to study, but that's below.)

I am not talking about Cerbereus about recreating a full-fledged Reaper,
but making experiments and doing what the Collectors did, but in much
smaller scale. Also, Harbringer indicated that the other races were inferior and therefore their transformation into a Reaper is more likely to fail.

So, in order to study the creation process of Reapers... Cerberus is going to abduct millions of aliens who were already deemed as likely to fail/impossible by the Reapers, ie an incredibly flawed sample even before unknown development and alterations for entirely different types of life forms for a system geared specifically for Human genetics is attempted.

Uhhuh...

[Dean_the_Young]

somecthemes wrote...

I imagine many people from the 60's would have a definate understanding of the idea of "safer" to destroy it. Then, the with nukes being a hot button and just using the word "nuke" would stir up a debate, it was a common thought that destruction of the technology might be safer for the world than attempting to find a reasonable application. Now, though, so many games and movies use nukes as the end all solution to the problem and to some the idea of a dangerous weapon is only reference to who holds it.

Many people in the 60's were silly, for various reasons from the 'useful idiot' class to the rather arogant self-centric cultures who believe that all others would follow their lead.

[Sebby]

One thought occurred to me, wouldn't Cerberus be able to create their own army of Collectors with the base intact? They could use an EDI-like A.I to oversee them.

[originalgamer89]

I always blow up the base because I thought it could be manipulated my the reapers remotaly even if I purged it, so I knew I could take the base but not if anyone could hold the base because you have to pass through the omega-4 so someone could blockade it or trap it.

[Ryzaki]

Derperus has too high of a fail rate for me to give them the base.

[Dean_the_Young]

Unless your failure rate is 'any'...