19 réponses à ce sujet

[Victorita9]

Seeing the amount of acts Anders did when he was posessed by justice I was thinking what would have happened in DA2 if Justice had possesed someone else like Velanna or Oghren?

[DreamerM]

If he'd possessed Oghren, DA2 would have been a better game. With more alcohol. And belching.

[ReiSilver]

Nathaniel is another common fan-choice, he talked with Justice about possessing a willing host.
as for what would happen?
I would do a great big happy dance because the thought of sarcastic Hawke and AwakeningAnders in one place at the same time fills me with glee.

[DreamerM]

ReiSilver wrote...
I would do a great big happy dance because the thought of sarcastic Hawke and AwakeningAnders in one place at the same time fills me with glee.

The thought of AwakeningAnders being ANYWHERE that isn't Awakening fills me with glee. And longing. Mostly longing.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

If any of my rogue wardens merged with Justice:

"Well, another Knight Commander is dead."
"Same way?"
"Yep. Some gore-soaked madwoman unstealthed for a fraction of a second, cackled madly, glowed blue, and stabbed her."
"A fraction of a second, you say."
"She's a very... fast madwoman."
"Add it to the pile."

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 06 juillet 2011 - 07:08 .

[DreamerM]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
"Yep. Some gore-soaked madwoman unstealthed for a fraction of a second, cackled madly, glowed blue, and stabbed her."

Literal minded: why would your Rogue Warden kill Knight Commanders?

And also, in that order? Would she unstealth, then laugh, then glow, THEN kill? What's to stop the target from moving away during the laughing and glowing bits?

Actually, confusion would probably keep them where they are. Forget I said anything.

[Ryzaki]

If my Wardens got possessed by Justice...Howe's family would've never been safe. ...Neither would Anora come to think of it.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 juillet 2011 - 07:21 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Well, one is a Dalish elf and one is a city elf. They both hate the Chantry and want to destabilize it. Honestly my Tabris wants to destabilize all of human society, but she'll start with the Chantry (also, she hates you.) She might pick Grand Clerics rather than Knight Commanders, or just alternate between the two, with the occasional "dude who happened to be mean to some elves" or "political leader who is mean to elves." I'm trying to decide if she'd try to keep things pretty random seeming for a while, with the hopes of not letting people pick up on her pattern at first, or if she'd make some clear political statement, like the Scarlet Pimpernel. Did I mention that my Tabris was my amoral Warden in DA:O?

And if all that happens in a fraction of a second, really does it matter what order it is in? Point is, you just got stabbed by a crazy woman who doesn't really think killing humans is wrong. Considers it more of a moral grey area.

The problem with any of the other Awakenings companions is that none of them except Velanna have a "cause" per se, and Justice would make Velanna atone for her own injustices first, and also she expressed a pretty strong objection to the idea, even if she were dead, so I doubt she'd agree to it while alive.

Mage Wardens would hopefully end up working toward their cause just in a more organized and productive way.

And yes, there's the revenge! for any Noble origin, and maybe for the dusters? The problem is that other than the oppression of mages, elves, and dusters, nothing really seems like it'd be Justice's bag, really. And only the mages and the elves have a unified force of oppressors. It also "helps" that regardless of whether or not he fuses with Anders, Justice now knows and cares about mage oppression, so getting him to kill Chantry-related oppressors would be easier than killing off the handful of peope who wronged you, personally.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 06 juillet 2011 - 07:42 .

[Dhiro]

DreamerM wrote...

If he'd possessed Oghren, DA2 would have been a better game. With more alcohol. And belching.

Anders said that Justice won't let him drink.

Hm, maybe he should have posessed Oghren.

[upsettingshorts]

If Justice had possessed Goldanna all her children would definitely have been fed. Potentially through cannibalism.

[Dhiro]

I can't help myself but think that Justice would have been warped no matter who he posessed. Maybe he didn't tried to destroy the Chantry, but he wouldn't be the same Justice we knew in Awakening.

[Knight of Dane]

My first thought was velanna.

But then again she doesn't really need Vengance to be crazy and vengefull.

[NugWrangler]

The problem is that he has no concept of what justice means in the real world or any concept of mercy and forgiveness. Anyone he possessed would have their deepest feelings of resentment laid bare and likely become destructive. The only way I could see a possession being useful is if he merged with someone who had a single minded hate for darkspawn. Focusing his power on an enemy that is equally merciless seems the most appropriate.

[BurstAngel75]

Has anyone ever took a good look at the symbol of Justice? In western society, Justice is blindfolded carrying a scale and a blunt sword. The blindfold means that all people are equal in the eyes of Justice. The scale is because Justice must be fair in passing judgement. The blunt sword is when Justice acts, it must be tempered with mercy/compassion.

If Justice merged with someone, that person has to be incredibly strong willed and compassionate. Someone who will not let their passions get away with them and who will be fair and non judgemental. I always saw Anders as a weak and shelfish person. Now, before I get flamed, I understand that he "helps" the poor and downtrodden, but if you take into account his personality (childish, elitest, rebellious, egotistical, passinate, idealist, dreamer and also martyr) You will see that also he does it to feel better about himself and because he loves attention. That is why Justice has because Vengance when they merged.

Justice without Temperence and Mercy IS Vengance.

[sonoko]

I think there is a chance that such possession wouldn't lead to Justice corruption. Awakening Justice was still a good spirit. When I remember how touching Justice was in his almost child-like desire to learn about the world of mortals, to understand human life I feel very sad. If the host were someone like Wynn - a level-headed, harmonic person, then there would be no corruption. Or at least it would be minimal. Actually I expected something like this for Justice while playing Awakening. (I always thought Justice would end up merging with Nathaniel.)

Anders and Justice shouldn't have merged, and in the end they destroyed each other (in rivalry route) or lost their identities (in friendship route), but together they ended the Chantry tyranny. When Anders is discussed it is often forgotten that his path in DA2 is a tragedy of two persons, not one.

[Nohe]

Justice!Velanna would have been a disaster. D: Even my Dalish Warden was more than a little wary of that woman. I don't think Justice would have even considered her an option for possession.

I think that if Justice had possessed Nathaniel, he might still have been corrupted. Maybe not as quickly or as violently, but Nathaniel and Anders were both good men with a lot of weight on their shoulders.

Sigrun would have been a perfect host, I think. They could have accomplished a great deal of good together but they would both have known that it was only for a finite period of time. Death had its purpose for Sigrun and variations of Justice in Awakening did not fear death (dying at Aura's doorstep after serving with the Grey Wardens/fighting injustices, etc).

[Knight of Dane]

Except Sigrun is a dwarf..

No posession for her.

[magelet]

The idea of Justice+Velanna is kind of terrifying. It's just that..well Anders was a pretty easy-going and lighthearted guy in Awakening but became this tortured radical in DA2, presumably because of Justice's influence.

Velanna on the other hand was angry at the start of Awakening. I mean...she started murdering all the humans she saw just because she thought that humans maybe killed her sister. If she got imbued with an even stronger sense of radical violent justice...geez I wouldn't want to be around that.

[ReallyRue]

Justice possessing Velanna would make Janders look like a kitten. And not a rabies kitten, either. The actual cute, fluffy kind. And she wouldn't just be blowing up Chantries, but all human seats of power.

Hey, sounds kind of like my Dalish Warden...

[Amagoi]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Except Sigrun is a dwarf..

No posession for her.

Dwarves can be possessed, just like they can be taken into the Fade by a demon or spirit. They don't go to the Fade naturally, and have a resistance to magic, not immunity.

BurstAngel75 wrote...

Has anyone ever took a good look at
the symbol of Justice? In western society, Justice is blindfolded
carrying a scale and a blunt sword. The blindfold means that all people
are equal in the eyes of Justice. The scale is because Justice must be
fair in passing judgement. The blunt sword is when Justice acts, it must
be tempered with mercy/compassion.

If Justice merged with
someone, that person has to be incredibly strong willed and
compassionate. Someone who will not let their passions get away with
them and who will be fair and non judgemental. I always saw Anders as a
weak and shelfish person. Now, before I get flamed, I understand that he
"helps" the poor and downtrodden, but if you take into account his
personality (childish, elitest, rebellious, egotistical, passinate,
idealist, dreamer and also martyr) You will see that also he does it to
feel better about himself and because he loves attention. That is why
Justice has because Vengance when they merged.

Justice without Temperence and Mercy IS Vengance.

This is a near-perfect analysis of Justice as a spirit, imo. Though I would add that a lot of what turned Justice into Vengeance was Anders' repressed anger. It's possible too much of any negative emotion would easily corrupt a spirit. Like if Justice possessed someone who was a bit too proud, he might turn into some.. haughty holier-than-thou judge, I'm not sure.

But I agree, Justice is a very powerful ideal and so it's harder for a pure symbosis. I think Wynne worked so well is because Faith doesn't have to be proactive, and Wynne was very well adjusted. Though Faith could easily become Fanatacism or Zealotry. The point is, Justice is hard to persue. If a real fusion without corruption with Justice were to happen, the host would have to already be pretty special. It's not to say it's impossible though.

So I think Vengeance could have been avoided, and not have always turned the host into some murdering monster, like a lot of people think.