126 réponses à ce sujet

[amk-aka-phantom]

Wishful thinking, at best. Just look in the news. BioWare practically refuses to acknowledge the existence of the PC version. It's all about the Xbox. I bet that without EA ME2 wouldn't even come out on the PC

More than that, read the developers' blogs... they play on Xbox in their free time (Casey Hudson, Deus Ex: HR), despite being able to afford a killer gaming setup. Do I need to say more? BioWare is so hyped up with consoles that they're forgetting where the real gaming is themselves. It's not even about going for the bigger market anymore (since when are consoles bigger market, btw? PC sales are up while console ones are slowly falling... give us moar good-looking games and consoles can go out the window), it's just that the developers themselves got caught in the console nonsense. Of course, with that kind of attitude we'll never see any improvement over the console version.

Don't ever give me BS like "my PC sucks and I can't afford a better one, so I play on console"... lame excuse, I've seen people playing on consoles and then buying $500 phones. They're targeting a bigger market, and this market will, unfortunately, stay bigger until people realize they're being ripped off content-wise. ME2 PC version was like >>>>>>> console version and could've been even better if not for these pathetic low-res textures. Zoom in and it looks like I'm back to integrated graphics again or something.

[Gixxer6Rdr]

Its been conformed and talked about in a previous thread, they're not using DX11. Look up the thread for all the links etc.

[Gixxer6Rdr]

And amk, I switched to consoles because I got sick of hackers, script kiddies, and having to spend enough to get a console every year or year and a half to upgrade it. With my Xbox, no where close to the amount of hacking/cheating, and I don't have to upgrade anything. It keeps on playing the latest and greatest, and the graphics etc. keep gettin better but I don't pay more and more. To me, that's a big Win.

[shep82]

amk-aka-phantom wrote...

Wishful thinking, at best. Just look in the news. BioWare practically refuses to acknowledge the existence of the PC version. It's all about the Xbox. I bet that without EA ME2 wouldn't even come out on the PC

More than that, read the developers' blogs... they play on Xbox in their free time (Casey Hudson, Deus Ex: HR), despite being able to afford a killer gaming setup. Do I need to say more? BioWare is so hyped up with consoles that they're forgetting where the real gaming is themselves. It's not even about going for the bigger market anymore (since when are consoles bigger market, btw? PC sales are up while console ones are slowly falling... give us moar good-looking games and consoles can go out the window), it's just that the developers themselves got caught in the console nonsense. Of course, with that kind of attitude we'll never see any improvement over the console version.

Don't ever give me BS like "my PC sucks and I can't afford a better one, so I play on console"... lame excuse, I've seen people playing on consoles and then buying $500 phones. They're targeting a bigger market, and this market will, unfortunately, stay bigger until people realize they're being ripped off content-wise. ME2 PC version was like >>>>>>> console version and could've been even better if not for these pathetic low-res textures. Zoom in and it looks like I'm back to integrated graphics again or something.

Geesh. Consoles are easier to make games for plain and simple and some just don't want to buy a gaming rig no matter how much they earn. I do not agree that Bioware doesn't care about the PC gamers they do or we never would have gotten ME at all. THe engine simply doesn't allow for DX 11 that doesnt mean they are screwing us.

[Fishy]

mrcrusty wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

Gimmick.

High Res Textures > DX 11.

Obviously I don't think so. I want kick ass games. Graphics to me are just as important as story and gameplay. The cheap and crappy console ports are not what I am waiting for. So keep doing the PC fans a favor and push for the lowest denominator.

DX 11 is pointless unless it's built like that from the ground up.

Most games are built on DX 9 or some other outdated API to cater for consoles, then upscale a few effects like tesselation for PC on DX 11. Leading to massively taxing games that don't noticeably look better than their DX 9 counterparts.

The great benefit of DX 11 is in it's efficiency improvements and support for multithreading and parallel processing. Which are almost always made moot if not designed to take advantage of them properly.

Tesselation is a gimmick, DoF is not DX 11, neither is AA or high res textures.

Remember Witcher 2 was made on DX 9 and Dragon Age 2 has DX 11. Run both on max and tell me which game looks better.

But when Battlefield 3 comes out, I think we'll see some progress in this area.

I`m no expert on that matters but  DX 11 also move much more 'memory'  and thus process much more DATA than DX9 . That one of the reason Deux ES on DX9 sucks compared to DX11 in term of performance .

Basicly DX9 bottleneck your DX11 card.

So DX11 it's much more than just tessalation. You gain performance if you have the hardware .
That might also explain a bit of the megatexture Idea from John Carmack. Basicly because console can't move much much memory . He just use  that technique so it's streamed from the hardrive and not moved into the memory .

That make better use of DX9 limited capabilities and hardware and you gain FPS at the cost of a much larger game and loading time.

But correct me if i am wrong . I`m just assuming.
Of course he need to use the ram .. Wait ..

To be honest I don't know much about  how function  the API. I am just a casual c++ user.

Modifié par Suprez30, 30 septembre 2011 - 01:38 .

[amk-aka-phantom]

Gixxer6Rdr wrote...

And amk, I switched to consoles because I got sick of hackers, script kiddies, and having to spend enough to get a console every year or year and a half to upgrade it. With my Xbox, no where close to the amount of hacking/cheating, and I don't have to upgrade anything. It keeps on playing the latest and greatest, and the graphics etc. keep gettin better but I don't pay more and more. To me, that's a big Win.

FYI, ME1/2 are single player and there's no "hacking" there. Script kiddies? I have dismissed that claim. And, since all the games are console ports nowadays, you don't need to upgrade every year... I know a lot of people who spent $1200 3 years back for a new PC and still max out 90% of the new games.

Graphics on consoles keep getting better?  Yeah, this is it right here... pure BS...

We don't even need DX11 - just give us higher-res textures and make the colours brighter, that'll be enough for the starters.

Neurotics wrote...

I love all the PC elitism here.
I refuse to pay $1000+ for a decent gaming rig.
My current multimedia rig was $700 and that is pushing my spending limit.
I also prefer a controller over a mouse/keyboard.
It's all personal taste and I hate it when people talk **** on consoles.
Theres my two cents. I'm out.
../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png

Refuse? Too bad for you, you're missing on a lot. BTW, a $700 rig maxes out ME2 w/o any problems. Also, I don't get it how you people play with controllers...  Must be quite funny watching you play an Infiltrator.

shep82 wrote...
Geesh. Consoles are easier to make games for
plain and simple and some just don't want to buy a gaming rig no matter
how much they earn. I do not agree that Bioware doesn't care about the
PC gamers they do or we never would have gotten ME at all. THe engine
simply doesn't allow for DX 11 that doesnt mean they are screwing
us.

Ummm.. why would anyone NOT buy a gaming rig if they can afford one?

Consoles might be easier to make games for, but the end-user doesn't care how hard it was to make the
game... other developers give their PC versions extra boost in graphics that makes you forget you're playing a console port, and I don't see why BioWare should be behind.

Modifié par amk-aka-phantom, 30 septembre 2011 - 01:06 .

[amk-aka-phantom]

amk-aka-phantom wrote...
Graphics on consoles keep getting better? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie] Yeah, this is it right here... pure BS...

To clear it up: they did get better over time, but they reached the hardware limit and they're pathetic compared to what any $150 graphics card can achieve.

Modifié par amk-aka-phantom, 30 septembre 2011 - 01:06 .

[Michel1986]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Does Unreal 2 support DX11? That's going to be the determining factor. Graphics are only as good as the engine that runs them, and if Unreal 2 can't do it, then it won't be a feature of ME3.

Mass Effect 2 is using Unreal Engine 3 (modified one (3.5). So what are you talking about unreal 2 ?

[CBKeffer]

amk-aka-phantom wrote...

Ummm.. why would anyone NOT buy a gaming rig if they can afford one?

Try people like me that work on a computer all day, adn the last thing we want to do is sit down at another desk in front of another computer when we get home. I play on consoles because I'd much rather sit on my comfortable couch with a beer and play a game on my 50" TV. Playing on comps was great when I was still in school, but I've found that any more, I'd rather not play where I work as it were.

[88Vendetta88]

Fact of the matter is all the lower tier dev's would love to cater to everybody including us constantly neglected PC players, but EA have the final say and they have to report to the shareholders. Keep costs as low as possible whilst maximizing profits.

Hi-Res textures and fixing other aspects would go a longer way for us as many others have already stated. As much  as I would love DX11, unless they went full out with it, it's a waste of time.

Modifié par 88Vendetta88, 30 septembre 2011 - 06:44 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

CBKeffer wrote...

amk-aka-phantom wrote...

Ummm.. why would anyone NOT buy a gaming rig if they can afford one?

Try people like me that work on a computer all day, adn the last thing we want to do is sit down at another desk in front of another computer when we get home. I play on consoles because I'd much rather sit on my comfortable couch with a beer and play a game on my 50" TV. Playing on comps was great when I was still in school, but I've found that any more, I'd rather not play where I work as it were.

Isn't this excuse like 10 years old?

I play my pc while sitting in the sofa and drinking beer..it's because of this new(old) thing called HDMiI cable.

[DDG4005]

Hathur wrote...

^ They are using singular elements of DX11 support in the UE3 engine only (because one or two or a few scant elements are easier to patch).

But for a UE3 game that fully utilizes DX11 features, that's only going to be seen a year at best from now (since most games take 1-2 years these days to produce).

Arkham City is only utilizing a few DX 11 features... and homefront's use of DX11 is eye-roll worthy... it was BARELY utilized whatsoever (to be fair they were using a very early version of the UE3 DX11 implementation before the Unreal engine changes were fully finished, so they only had a few options to work with).

Again, I can't fault Bioware for not bothering to implement DX11. We PC gamers are a miniscule market compared to the consoles... and the percentage of people who do buy the PC version of a game rather than console, often don't have the GPU & CPU capable of handling DX11 features since they're often considerably more demanding on hardware resources.

I happen to be one of the miniscule percentage of PC gamers who have a decent rig capable of handling DX11 features comfortably.... and I realistically don't expect gaming companies to cater to me since the majority of their income is coming from console sales... spending additional development time on enhanced PC visuals would not really net Bioware any meaningful additional profits, because nobody is going to say:

"What? ME3 doesn't support DX11 on PC? Pfft, screw that game, I ain't buying it."

Face it. We're stuck with DX9 mostly until a new console generation is released that is capable of handling DX10 and 11 features... as until that day comes out, devs don't care about really catering to PC gamers (and this is entirely understandable.. games today costs 10's of millions of dollars.. the PC market sure as hell won't net them the profits needed to stay afloat.. they're reliant on the console market for most of their revenue).

No disrepect to your otherwise well-written post but PC gamers are not a miniscule segment of the gaming market; we are, in fact, the majority.  With over 1 billion PCs on the planet (Steam alone as 40 million users) it is consoles that are the small, but profitable, segment.

That said I agree with you and don't think we'll see DirectX 11 support for Mass Effect 3 because there isn't a need for it.  Some games that support it are more flash than substance but the ME series has always been about character-driven, story-based gameplay from the start.  Like you I also have a machine, two in fact, that can run  DirectX 11-based games but I'd rather have a strong finish to the trilogy than tesselated merch armor.

[marstor05]

no disrespect but have a look at how many consoles have been sold. I'm afraid you are wrong. The vast majority of gamers are console owners. Since consoles are designed mainly for games. Not every PC is a gaming PC. Most of the PC numbers are office related - work related.

Dont get me wrong I have a PC with DX11 capability - but to say theres more gaming PCs than consoles is tosh.

[Shepard the Leper]

DDG3595 wrote...

Hathur wrote...

Face it. We're stuck with DX9 mostly until a new console generation is released that is capable of handling DX10 and 11 features... as until that day comes out, devs don't care about really catering to PC gamers (and this is entirely understandable.. games today costs 10's of millions of dollars.. the PC market sure as hell won't net them the profits needed to stay afloat.. they're reliant on the console market for most of their revenue).

No disrepect to your otherwise well-written post but PC gamers are not a miniscule segment of the gaming market; we are, in fact, the majority.  With over 1 billion PCs on the planet (Steam alone as 40 million users) it is consoles that are the small, but profitable, segment.

According to NVidia PC gaming will surpass console gaming in revue somewhere in 2015 source

[CBKeffer]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

CBKeffer wrote...

amk-aka-phantom wrote...

Ummm.. why would anyone NOT buy a gaming rig if they can afford one?

Try people like me that work on a computer all day, adn the last thing we want to do is sit down at another desk in front of another computer when we get home. I play on consoles because I'd much rather sit on my comfortable couch with a beer and play a game on my 50" TV. Playing on comps was great when I was still in school, but I've found that any more, I'd rather not play where I work as it were.

Isn't this excuse like 10 years old?

I play my pc while sitting in the sofa and drinking beer..it's because of this new(old) thing called HDMiI cable.

I'm well aware of how to connect a comp to a tv, I've had a tv slaved to my comp before and we do it here to allow clients to see drafts of the animations we are doign for them. However, if I'm going to play games on a comp, I'd rather get full use out of it and that means a keyboard and mouse setup. You also locked on to only half of my excuse, I'm on a computer doing grapics work all day long, and the last thing I want to do is spend more time on a computer when I get home. Now, this may seem like semantics to you, but to me a console is different enough to let me get out of "work mode" when I'm using it. It works for me and that alone make it legitmate for me, but this may just have to be one of those things where we have to just say to each their own, but my post was more to illustrate that there are in fact people with legitmate reasons not to build a gaming rig even if we can afford it.

[DDG4005]

marstor05 wrote...

no disrespect but have a look at how many consoles have been sold. I'm afraid you are wrong. The vast majority of gamers are console owners. Since consoles are designed mainly for games. Not every PC is a gaming PC. Most of the PC numbers are office related - work related.

Dont get me wrong I have a PC with DX11 capability - but to say theres more gaming PCs than consoles is tosh.

I'll have to find the source but most Xbox 360 owners user their units to stream movies and shows not play games.  And I agree that while not every PC is used to play games I'm not ready to believe the hype that console games outnumber PC gamers.

[Computer_God91]

 The irony of PC gaming. Seriously, all of us with high-end rigs (which mine really isn't it's just above average) all talk about graphics when I spend most of my time playing games over half a decade old, like currently: Diablo 2 and Knights of the Old Republic. I do admit that I'm a graphics **** and in all the latest games I want them to look awesome and use my rig to its full compacity but it's not why I'm a PC Gamer. I'm a PC gamer because I can play whatever I want when I want and I don't have to dust off an old console to play it. Although I do love seeing pretty graphics in all the newest games.

[DDG4005]

Computer_God91 wrote...

 The irony of PC gaming. Seriously, all of us with high-end rigs (which mine really isn't it's just above average) all talk about graphics when I spend most of my time playing games over half a decade old, like currently: Diablo 2 and Knights of the Old Republic. I do admit that I'm a graphics **** and in all the latest games I want them to look awesome and use my rig to its full compacity but it's not why I'm a PC Gamer. I'm a PC gamer because I can play whatever I want when I want and I don't have to dust off an old console to play it. Although I do love seeing pretty graphics in all the newest games.

And here I thought I was the only one playing old games (Sinistar Unleashed and the Descent franchise).

[Anacronian Stryx]

DDG3595 wrote...

Computer_God91 wrote...

 The irony of PC gaming. Seriously, all of us with high-end rigs (which mine really isn't it's just above average) all talk about graphics when I spend most of my time playing games over half a decade old, like currently: Diablo 2 and Knights of the Old Republic. I do admit that I'm a graphics **** and in all the latest games I want them to look awesome and use my rig to its full compacity but it's not why I'm a PC Gamer. I'm a PC gamer because I can play whatever I want when I want and I don't have to dust off an old console to play it. Although I do love seeing pretty graphics in all the newest games.

And here I thought I was the only one playing old games (Sinistar Unleashed and the Descent franchise).

Syndicate wars!!

[DDG4005]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

DDG3595 wrote...

Computer_God91 wrote...

 The irony of PC gaming. Seriously, all of us with high-end rigs (which mine really isn't it's just above average) all talk about graphics when I spend most of my time playing games over half a decade old, like currently: Diablo 2 and Knights of the Old Republic. I do admit that I'm a graphics **** and in all the latest games I want them to look awesome and use my rig to its full compacity but it's not why I'm a PC Gamer. I'm a PC gamer because I can play whatever I want when I want and I don't have to dust off an old console to play it. Although I do love seeing pretty graphics in all the newest games.

And here I thought I was the only one playing old games (Sinistar Unleashed and the Descent franchise).

Syndicate wars!!

Another classic!  It's being remade by EA into a first-person shooter (although I'm not sure when it will be released).

[Fredvdp]

Neurotics wrote...

I love all the PC elitism here.
I refuse to pay $1000+ for a decent gaming rig.
My current multimedia rig was $700 and that is pushing my spending limit.
I also prefer a controller over a mouse/keyboard.
It's all personal taste and I hate it when people talk **** on consoles.
Theres my two cents. I'm out.

I bought a €600 PC ($810.18) which runs The Witcher 2 and Battlefield 3 on ultra at 1920x1080.

[amk-aka-phantom]

Try people like me that work on a computer all day, adn the last thing we want to do is sit down at another desk in front of another computer when we get home. I play on consoles because I'd much rather sit on my comfortable couch with a beer and play a game on my 50" TV. Playing on comps was great when I was still in school, but I've found that any more, I'd rather not play where I work as it were.

Lame excuse. I work on the computer all day, too, and I love coming home and switching to another computer, just 10x more powerful. If I'd want to, I'd hook it up to my TV, but sadly, ME2 textures are so low-res that it looks better on a 23'' than on 50''

]I bought a €600 PC ($810.18) which runs The Witcher 2 and Battlefield 3 on ultra at 1920x1080.

^ My point exactly. But you're wrong about BF3, it's not out yet... or are you talking about the beta?

Also, it's true that there're more PC gamers than console gamers; and lately there's a huge switch going on, partly due to BF3, partly to the new Sandy Bridge CPUs and GeForce 5xx/Radeon 6xxx GPUs that allow you to have a kick-ass rig for quite cheap. Seriously, I'd rather spend $1k and get a kick-ass rig than $350 on a console and then $650 more on some other nonsense. Price excuse is NO MORE.

I'm well aware of how to connect a comp to a tv, I've had a tv
slaved to my comp before and we do it here to allow clients to see
drafts of the animations we are doign for them. However, if I'm going to
play games on a comp, I'd rather get full use out of it and that means a
keyboard and mouse setup. You also locked on to only half of my excuse,
I'm on a computer doing grapics work all day long, and the last thing I
want to do is spend more time on a computer when I get home. Now, this
may seem like semantics to you, but to me a console is different enough
to let me get out of "work mode" when I'm using it. It works for me and
that alone make it legitmate for me, but this may just have to be one of
those things where we have to just say to each their own, but my post
was more to illustrate that there are in fact people with legitmate reasons not to build a gaming rig even if we can afford it.

OMG, what BS... connect a wireless controller to your rig and sit on your couch with your beer all you like - is it THAT difficult?

Old games? I still love KOTOR, NWN, Deus Ex (original) and MDK2... waiting for MDK2 HD...

Modifié par amk-aka-phantom, 01 octobre 2011 - 03:45 .

[RPGamer13]

Fredvdp wrote...

I bought a €600 PC ($810.18) which runs The Witcher 2 and Battlefield 3 on ultra at 1920x1080.

What are your specs?  Because I can't run The Witcher 2 on Ultra and it pisses me off because I should be able to.

It might be my processor though, I looked at the performance tab and it said the game was using up 100% of my CPU usage.

[Fishy]

I always build great computer but not each 6 month (More like each 3+ years). I hate playing on a couch . I have a PS3 and the last game I have purchased was SSF4 (Outside of some PSN title) . I just don't like it. I hate the pad , I hate the couch and I hate everything about their online service/experience.

I prefeer to be on my comfortable computer chair with my headphone plugged into my ear at 15 inch from my monitor rather than sitting 10 ft away from my T.V. Plus my monitor is just simply of better quality and contrast.

Right now I can't even play or watch movie at home without my headphone . It's just imo a superior experience because I can totally lost myself into what I am doing/watching .

So no . It's not only because of the 'graphic' . I started gaming on PC because of the internet and LAN . Something that console had not before. But I just can't enjoy playing on a console. I simply don't 'feel' it. For instance It's annoy me of being unable to 'adjust' the graphic setting and not having an awesome list of control option and no mod and no TRUE SERVER either.

Also yes I play plenty of old game . That another advantage of my PC . Of course most console gamer also own a PC which are more than capable of playing many older game.

Of course now they do remake on console while I still have that game somewhere in my closet beneath 10 inch of dust . Why I purchased a PS3 ? SF4 . lol. The funny part is that I am actually better at it with my keyboard.

It's like the RE4 remake . I had it for a long time with the super texture pack . Figure.
PC ain't dying either . Actually 10 years ago PC market was much more niche. PC gaming has never been so healthy actually. The only thing more dying about PC is the online FPS market.

Before it's was basically just a PC thing with game like Q3A and counter-strike and service like game spy and zone. So now they go toward the 'mainstream" market which is the console even though the PC online capabilities are way ahead . MMO it's another story.

RPGgamer . Most CPU under stress/load will be at 100 %. It's more about how fast your CPU can compute the information.