25 réponses à ce sujet

[clone_rizzo]

"In Dragon Age: Origins, statistics for monsters are dynamic; they scale to the player’s level. This makes for a challenging experience, because you won’t run into an area way too easy or way too difficult; you can enjoy the game play right along with the story." 

Taken from the links posted on this thread in the spoilers forum: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/47/index/59277

Thoughts?

[Chikkenstorm]

W-what? I thought the devs said that they didn't fully scale. Only in a certain limit, lvl 6 - 9 for example.

I don't like scaling enemies. Sure, they have to scale a bit, since not everyone does the same amount of side-quests, but I don't want lvl 20 rats...

[Sansin]

Oblivion???

[pharos_gryphon]

Isn't this theoretically a spoiler? <.<

[Chikkenstorm]

I don't see this as a spoiler. It's a game mechanic, not something story related.

But that's just me.

[krol146]

Not suprising. If i remember correctly, pretty much all Bioware games have level scaling.

[Jonnybear84]

Its been discussed before, I believe the system that DA:O uses is where enemies scale within a certain range, so if you enter an area at level 13 that is designed to be for players between levels 10 - 15 then yes the enemies will scale to your level, but if you were to enter that same area at level 20 then all the enemies would scale up to 15, this makes it so there is always a level of challenge without removing the sense that your character is growing more powerful, so you may still find areas that are too hard that you need to leave and come back to later and other areas that your PC can go back to later in the game and smash through any opposition easily.

If anyone knows otherwise then please do correct me.

Modifié par Jonnybear84, 31 octobre 2009 - 03:07 .

[IceLogik]

pharos_gryphon wrote...

Isn't this theoretically a spoiler? <.<

Even if this were a spoiler, the topic details exactly what's in the thread. If you're afraid of learning the level scaling mechanics, I doubt you'd accidentally stumble in here.

[Rikaze]

It's a spoiler in some form or another, it just depends on who you are... If you're the kind of guy that hates figuring out game mechanics before playing the game, this is a spoiler. I think for a majority of people, this is not a spoiler though, so no spoiler tag is warranted.



Story-related stuff is a spoiler to me.



I like scaling enemies. True, level 20 rats would be silly, and I think BioWare has probably made it so certain enemies don't scale past a certain point, but I'd be disappointed if we were to see the same brand of Darkspawn units throughout the game and they didn't scale in difficulty from start to finish. I tend to doubt we'll see the exact same brand of Darkspawn in every fight we have with them, but things like the Emissary, to my understanding, are probably going to recur quite often. If those didn't scale, it'd get too easy.

[Jeadar]

I wish they wouldn't use level scaling at all. But if they must use it, this system is way better than the one in Oblivion.

[Chikkenstorm]

Rikaze wrote...
I'd be disappointed if we were to see the same brand of Darkspawn units throughout the game and they didn't scale in difficulty from start to finish. 

I don't think that's the defenition of scaling. Atleast, when someone says scaling (in this contex), I think of the beginning areas having lvl 20 monsters when you're lvl 20. And when you're lvl 5, the end-game area's (which you can't acces at that point) have lvl 5 monsters.
What you say just makes sense. Ofcourse the enemies will be harder later in the game. It's not like everything's going to be a push-over then.

[daem3an]

EDIT: Apologies if the following info is considered a SPOILER.

Mike Laidlaw:

"Origins uses a system which I call "Persistent Scaling."

Essentially, the game has the capability to scale around your level and adjust encounters, but it does not do so in a way that means the challenge level never changes. Some areas are harder, even at the lower end, and others are a bit on the easier side.

Better, the game remembers when you visit places, so if you are having trouble with a particular encounter, you CAN leave, tackle a few side quests and come back tougher and know that the game won't have suddenly jumped the difficulty up on you to match. Hence "persistent."

It's a very refined system. Some creatures are handled specifically, even. *cough*dragon*cough*"

Also, Dragon Age use a 'rank' vs 'level' system to determine encounter difficulty.

David Sims:

Rank is the basis of comparison. It is what lets us balance encounters without knowing what the level of the encounter is since that will be determined by level scaling. Most of the time the player is going to be fighting creatures of equal level, and if not the encounters will be progressively easier or more difficult depending on the difference in levels but that’s not something we worry too much about balancing.

When setting up encounters, there are 5 ranks (critter, normal, lieutenant, boss and elite boss) to pick from. The rank determines how powerful the creature is relative to a party member at the same level, and therefore how many you need to pose a challenge to the party.

For instance, critters are easy creatures which are significantly less powerful than a single party member. The party has to fight a large group for them to be challenged.

On the other hand, lieutenant rank creatures are roughly equal to a party member in power, and even odds will be a difficult fight.

If I wanted to make a speed bump fight, I might include 3 normal creatures, which shouldn't pose a big threat because they are outnumbered and underpowered. If I wanted to make a challenging fight, I might include 3 lieutenants and 3 normals. Of course, the types of enemies, the abilities they have and the area they are being fought in have to be taken into account, but ranks serve as rough guidelines.

(edit; sorry, totally screwed up that quote)

and

"The PC is a party member, so about equivalent to a lieutenant. The PC does get a few special perks as the game unfolds, so by the end they may be a bit more powerful, but that will vary a lot depending on how you spend your points and distribute your gear. After all, the PC might be a support mage, focusing on buffing spells which are useful to the party but aren't very good one on one. In terms of raw stats however, a boss ranked creature is significantly more powerful than a PC. Bosses are designed to provide a challenge for a whole party.

   

Quote: Posted 08/25/09 20:56 (GMT) by Ecaiki
...my guess for how the numbers play out.

    Critter = 1/4 PC
    Normal = 1/2 PC
    Lieutenant = PC
    Boss = 2 PCs
    Elite Boss = 4 PCs

Those are pretty good estimates. As you get into boss and elite boss ranked creatures, the health tends to go up faster than other stats, so it’s a bit difficult to express it as a simple multiplier of a PC’s power."

Modifié par daem3an, 31 octobre 2009 - 03:28 .

[Niten Ryu]

I don't like any enemy level scale systems in games so I hope DA system is really subtle or can be mod away.

[AviramG]

u dont have to scale just levels u know, u can also scale quantity

[Dennis Carpenter]

clone_rizzo wrote...

"In Dragon Age: Origins, statistics for monsters are dynamic; they scale to the player’s level. This makes for a challenging experience, because you won’t run into an area way too easy or way too difficult; you can enjoy the game play right along with the story." 

Taken from the links posted on this thread in the spoilers forum: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/47/index/59277

Thoughts?

YO,,,,WAKE UP......whether you post the spoiler link or not ..If you include information from it into your post than your post  is a spoiler and belongs in the SPOILER FORUM.........................HELLOOOOO Get this rubbish over where it belongs..........a little help from the MOD here would be appreciated

[Tankenminnet]

As long as it is not as horrible as Oblivion was, it will be fine. I'm pretty sure it's going to be subtle anyhow- I doubt it will switch out the monsters or anything, but perhaps it will give them a bit more HP or maybe add an additional skeleton.

[Rikaze]

I'm pretty sure it'll be accessible by the modders. If they intend to create their own adventures, they're probably going to have each encounter be a set level, rather than scaling, or else I assume they'd feel a little gypped in that regard, being forced to use the games persistent scaling.



@Chikkenstorm: When I said that, it was under the insinuation that, as you progressed, so was your PC, both in level and gear, thereby making my statement read, more literally, something like this:

"I'd be disappointed if we were to see the same brand of Darkspawn units throughout the game and they didn't scale in difficulty, proportional to the player, from start to finish."

[Guy4142]

As long as it's only a certain range it will be fine, i dont want a rat to kill me later in the game after i've just killed a demon...



Also Oblivion suffered becuse suddenly you had uber bandits decked out with the best gear kicking your ass if you wern't careful.

[Maria Caliban]

It's limited scaling. As the scaling system is complex and the reviewer only spends a short pharagraph talking about it, he misrepresents it.



No, it will not be Oblivion.

[Gvaz]

It's probably a lot like Mass Effect's scaling, which in that case won't be very apparent because by end game you're stupidly powerful, even on harder difficulties.

[krabman]

spoil·er (spoilr)

n.

1. One who seizes spoils or booty.

2. Something that causes spoilage.

3.

a. A long, narrow hinged plate on the upper surface of an airplane wing that reduces lift and increases drag when raised.

b. An air deflector mounted usually at the rear of an automobile to reduce lift at high speeds.

4. A candidate for office whose chances of winning are slight but who may get enough votes to prevent one of the leading candidates from winning.

5. A published piece of information that divulges a surprise, such as a plot twist in a movie.



I dont see this as being a spoiler. If you used everyones definition of what a spoiler is there would not be a single post here, they would all be over in the spoiler section.

[Qara]

I normally hate level scaling but what Mike Laidlaw siad about persistant level scaling sounds cool. I'd imagine that this is the result of being able to do the main missions in different orders. I always remember how in KOTOR the last planet you did was really easy but the first was very hard, hopefully this will avoid that.

[Jonnybear84]

Indeed, talking about a game mechanic that has been made public knowledge for a good long time now does not in any way shape or form spoil the storyline of DA:O there are no spoilers here, accepted that if you follow that link at the top of the page then you will eventually come upon spoilers but as far as this thread is concerned it is spoiler free.

[Xaemoon]

I don't mind level scaling within a given set of parameters. There's nothing worse than getting to the end of a game and stomping everything without even trying. Some people love doing that. We won't even get into the whole "desire to feel big" conversation.

[gossipgirl]

As noted it uses a cache system when you enter an area so if you find it difficult you can leave and come back since it will remember what level to set the area at.