176 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.Dioneo]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Looks like one group we will hope to change the minds of as more information on Mass Effect 3 is released.

Oh, please do!

I hope ME3 is stellar.

And yes, the article is somewhat cynical about a lot of the products at E3 but I'm glad it is.  Unlike most gaming websites, I don't think the AV Club is all that beholden to game publishers.  Gaming is a small subsection of their overall output.  So they don't have to join the pre-release hype parade that other more mainstream gaming sites always seem to be a part of.

Modifié par Mr.Dioneo, 06 juillet 2011 - 08:09 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

littlezack wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

It's not improved mechanics, these mechanics were already in use by other games. Bioware, specifically Casey Hudson, is going around acting as if these additions are innovative. The way he talks about the grenades, which were in ME1, the melee assassinations, combat rolls, and kinect voice, you'd assume the man though Bioware came up with that all by themselves.  I know these guys are pretty excited because ME is starting to become more of a shooter, but don't get all surprised when people who actually play shooter games look at you like you're crazy when you're talking about "new" features that they've come to know from many other shooters. If you don't believe me, or the Onion, just check out some of the demo videos on youtube, or the interviews and see the content of the discussion.


-Polite

Casey's a hype man, that's what they do. What, do you expect him to go around telling people 'Yeah, this isn't anything special.' You can't get mad at a guy for pushing his product.

And I'm not. As I said above, I realize that they're really excited about the game. However, don't get offended when the people you show your demos to aren't as impressed with the combat as you would like them to be, because it's been done so many times. It worked with the dialogue wheel back when ME1 came out because it was innovative, however since tps combat isn't anything new, people aren't getting as excited when Casey shows off shepards omni blade, or hand grenade.

-Polite

[Apollo Starflare]

Very dramatic, I would be worried if it was echoed with anywhere near the same degree of negatively elsewhere. But it isn't so I'm not.

They do have a point about the kid (although again, they go OTT with their opinion). Can't say I found it as hard hitting as I would have expected, and I'm usually quite affected by those sort of things. Did it get confirmed that you can't influence his fate in any way? I would have liked it if a Paragon Shepard could try and do something for the boy which changes the scene at the end in some subtle way, but with the same result - highlighting that sometimes no matter what your mentality Shepard can't save everyone.

the_one_54321 wrote...

exskeeny wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

exskeeny wrote...
And so we see one persons opinion doom a whole franchise. That's right people you saw it happen here.

The Bioware Defense Force leaps into action!

Not at all, but you cannot judge a whole game on a demo and marketing speak.I always reserve full opinion on a game until I play it.

The current bar has been set by DAII. That bar was set at "the doom sayers were right."

Except they weren't? The truth is DA2 landed in the middle of the two 'groups' expectations. The doom sayers were predicting much, much worse things from DA2.

Oh and seeing as the whole BDF thing doesn't seem to be going anywhere I might as well say that once again, keeping an open mind and giving BioWare the benefit of the doubt (within reason) is just as valid a mindset as being incredibly pessismistic and whatnot. There really isn't any need to apply these labels to posters you don't agree with if you ask me. It only increases the divide between some posters on these boards.

[Phaedon]

I am sure that Casey is heart broken and offended right now, but if he isn't, what's your point? Both the shooter and RPG elements are planned for improvement in ME3, whether they'll manage to do that remains to be seen.

Also, why did I feel the urge to reply.

[MasterSamson88]

The AV Club has essentially seen all that we've seen, they just have a different opinion of the demo than some others.

That and their biggest complaint seems to just be that they saw nothing miraculously new. Which is understandable as the demo was basically just a combat demo taking place within various missions.

[Eccentrica Gallumbits]

Screw that guy. I wasn't impressed with his article. I felt the writing was hackneyed and stale. So there.

[Cainne Chapel]

Yeah I dont think i've ever seen an E3 demo with a game/sequel whatever with a new feature introduced that wasn't talked up. Even if feature has been in games MANY MANY times before it.

I mean hey you expect devs to be entirely dour on their presentations? You think the skyrim devs will be "Well...we've done this 5 times before...so... yeah here's our video...whatever..".

No. They're gonna hype up what their game contains regardless of whether its new or innovative, otherwise why bother working on it if you dont feel their your triple A game will be the best one you've done?

I think thats a great mindset to have, always push your product like its going to be the best. I mean why not? It pays your bills and provides your living (As a developer) right? Sure not all will agree, but thats why you hype it up in the first place, to grab those late adopters.

[Reapinger]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

littlezack wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

It's not improved mechanics, these mechanics were already in use by other games. Bioware, specifically Casey Hudson, is going around acting as if these additions are innovative. The way he talks about the grenades, which were in ME1, the melee assassinations, combat rolls, and kinect voice, you'd assume the man though Bioware came up with that all by themselves.  I know these guys are pretty excited because ME is starting to become more of a shooter, but don't get all surprised when people who actually play shooter games look at you like you're crazy when you're talking about "new" features that they've come to know from many other shooters. If you don't believe me, or the Onion, just check out some of the demo videos on youtube, or the interviews and see the content of the discussion.


-Polite

Casey's a hype man, that's what they do. What, do you expect him to go around telling people 'Yeah, this isn't anything special.' You can't get mad at a guy for pushing his product.

And I'm not. As I said above, I realize that they're really excited about the game. However, don't get offended when the people you show your demos to aren't as impressed with the combat as you would like them to be, because it's been done so many times. It worked with the dialogue wheel back when ME1 came out because it was innovative, however since tps combat isn't anything new, people aren't getting as excited when Casey shows off shepards omni blade, or hand grenade.

-Polite

Have to disagree on the melee not being original... It is innovative to have 2 different melee attacks depending on how long you hold the button and also to have a distinct melee tailored to each class. These are things people have requested and the new gun customization looks really cool too. Not new, but new to the series, which in and of itself is innovative and unique. You can't reinvent the wheel but you can put some spinners on the tires. 

[Reapinger]

Phaedon wrote...

I am sure that Casey is heart broken and offended right now, but if he isn't, what's your point? Both the shooter and RPG elements are planned for improvement in ME3, whether they'll manage to do that remains to be seen.

Also, why did I feel the urge to reply.

Because you disagree with his opinion good sir.  

[Had-to-say]

Reapinger wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

littlezack wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

It's not improved mechanics, these mechanics were already in use by other games. Bioware, specifically Casey Hudson, is going around acting as if these additions are innovative. The way he talks about the grenades, which were in ME1, the melee assassinations, combat rolls, and kinect voice, you'd assume the man though Bioware came up with that all by themselves.  I know these guys are pretty excited because ME is starting to become more of a shooter, but don't get all surprised when people who actually play shooter games look at you like you're crazy when you're talking about "new" features that they've come to know from many other shooters. If you don't believe me, or the Onion, just check out some of the demo videos on youtube, or the interviews and see the content of the discussion.


-Polite

Casey's a hype man, that's what they do. What, do you expect him to go around telling people 'Yeah, this isn't anything special.' You can't get mad at a guy for pushing his product.

And I'm not. As I said above, I realize that they're really excited about the game. However, don't get offended when the people you show your demos to aren't as impressed with the combat as you would like them to be, because it's been done so many times. It worked with the dialogue wheel back when ME1 came out because it was innovative, however since tps combat isn't anything new, people aren't getting as excited when Casey shows off shepards omni blade, or hand grenade.

-Polite

Have to disagree on the melee not being original... It is innovative to have 2 different melee attacks depending on how long you hold the button and also to have a distinct melee tailored to each class. These are things people have requested and the new gun customization looks really cool too. Not new, but new to the series, which in and of itself is innovative and unique. You can't reinvent the wheel but you can put some spinners on the tires. 

LOL!

[Cypher_CS]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Looks like one group we will hope to change the minds of as more information on Mass Effect 3 is released.

Don't really need to - it's The Onion.

Also, that blurb reads like a petulant child wrote it, one who doesn't actually get that a game is more than the sum of it's parts.
Cause hell, that's what he did there - he listed features and said they were nothing new.
And you know what? He's right, such features were seen before. But were they seen in a game like Mass Effect?
Were they seen in a game that takes RPG, Combat and adds a brawler into it?

Many game designers, unfortunatly, just pile on features and hope that they hold the game.
But game design is not about being feature rich. It's not even about having each feature be amazing - it's about the features working well together, complementing each other.
In a cover based game, the meele things we've seen work very well. In a different game, they would indeed be just another feature. But here, it actually seems to complement and enhance the gameplay.

[Beerfish]

The Kiwi fruit lawn bowling club however thought it was just aces!

[Brand New]

The onion. That is all I will say.

[Icinix]

Yep - the demo focused on the upgraded combat parts of the game.

Its what a lot of places said - there wasn't a lot from the ME3 demo to elevate it above the shooters on display.

Once the other pieces of ME3 start coming out, the exploration, the squad interaction, the other pieces I've no doubt they'll change their opinions.

But the demo was very shooter / combat focused - theres nothing wrong with that, but its not the combat that makes Mass Effect - Mass Effect. Its all those other aspects that come together that we're yet to see.

[Luigitornado]

Yeah, and one IGN editor wrote an article saying that part of the demo made him teary eyed. And another editor wrote the game plays better than ME2.

Opinions.

[Vengeful Nature]

I kind of have to agree with him on that point. What I saw from the demo was, personally, not what attracted me to the ME franchise to begin with. I couldn't give two logs about a blade on the end of the omni-tool or being able to fight and take over a massive mech. I was in it for the interesting RPG/shooter set in an intriguing sci-fi universe. Unfortunately, I didn't get an impression of that from the demo. All I saw was trite action game tropes and bombastic set pieces that the player doesn't interact with. I didn't think the gun customisation was that impressive, either.

I really hope the game turns out better than that, and I'm withholding judgement until I actually play the game, but the demo itself was a damp squib as far as I'm concerned.

Modifié par Vengeful Nature, 06 juillet 2011 - 09:10 .

[MegaBadExample]

Idiots. The game looks awesome, even better than ME2. Everything shown so far has been great. Except the kinect thing.

[In Exile]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

It's not improved mechanics, these mechanics were already in use by other games. Bioware, specifically Casey Hudson, is going around acting as if these additions are innovative. The way he talks about the grenades, which were in ME1, the melee assassinations, combat rolls, and kinect voice, you'd assume the man though Bioware

If they weren't in ME2 or ME1, they are innovative. And ME1 "grenades" weren't greal grenades because of the weird physics and 0 knocback & AOE.

If ME3's combat is better as a shooter than ME2's combat, then there's nothing wrong with advertising (look! fun combat and 100% identical 'story mode').

Edit:

Also, was no one here for the ME1 E3? Where it was blasted as a "boring" presentation?

Modifié par In Exile, 06 juillet 2011 - 09:27 .

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Have to agree with the Onion to an extent. It took some grumbling fans to persuade Casey to show off ME3's skill menu and weapon customization; if it wasn't for fan input, the demo probably would have only consisted of shooter combat and some demonstrations of the dialogue wheel we're all familiar with...

I mean, it's hard to look at the demo from an average gamer's perspective (one who hasn't played any of the ME games), but it's hard to imagine any shooter fan being impressed by GRENADES!!! or BETTER MELEE!!! or, yeah, even BIGGER SCALE WITH COOL STUFF GOING ON!!!.

Bioware needs to push ME3's unique blend of "RPG" and "Shooter", and show how both of those combine in interesting ways, to grab people's attention. Going, "Look, we put more shooter stuff in our RPG!" doesn't cut it.
You need to give prospective customers a reason to listen to you; whether that's by showing off the vastness of the character customization, weapon customization, the wide variations in character builds (within a single class, demonstrating how two different builds can have a huge effect on the shooter combat), or how different story decisions can completely alter a certain part of the game, etc... I'm hoping that Bioware devotes more marketing towards Mass Effect 3's strong points, and not just towards showing off familiar shooter conventions with the intention of grabbing the attention of the mainstream COD crowd, because with all of the competition currently in the market, that's not going to do much good for the game.

[Sgt Stryker]

 Now where did I put that The Big Lebowski image macro....

[KillTheLastRomantic]

Were there any videos released where we can hear the dialogue between the kid in the vent and Shepard?

[PiercedMonk]

In Exile wrote...

If they weren't in ME2 or ME1, they are innovative.

Are they? Really? If ME3 features a sidescrolling sequence where you jump on turtles and animated mushrooms, will that also be innovative because it's never been in a 'Mass Effect' game before?

Not that I'm going to object to melee kills and grenades and improved third person combat -- currently doing an insanity playthrough of ME1, and the combat is wretchedly tedious -- but they're not inovative, and for BioWare's hype department to pretend like they are is a bit silly. 'Gears of War' will have been out for five years when 'Mass Effect 3' drops and will, most likely, still feature better combat.

Which is fine. I don't think anyone who's a fan of 'Mass Effect' as a serries is a fan because it's such a good cover shooter. A desire to improve upon the combat mechanics is certinally laudable, and I realise that at this point there's probably not much else that Casey Hudson or anyone else wants to give away about the real draw of 'Mass Effect' -- i.e. well above average to excellent story -- but they can't expect anyone to be really excited by, "this game has grenades."

Or, to belabour a metaphor put forward early in the thread: You can't reinvent the wheel, but you can put some spinners on the tires. However, if you're the last dude on the block to get spinners, bragging about them isn't going to make you cool.