176 réponses à ce sujet

[Xivai]

The demo was terribad, for this late in development I'm starting to worry. They couldn't properly sync Mordin's eye or something and it was all **** eyed. I'm quite afraid of the bad that's going to happen to this game. OH MY GOD a melee weapon, holy **** guys. What next do we flip it over for massive damage? Perhaps shoot it in the head for a critical? A for awesome?

[Rockworm503]

Xivai wrote...

The demo was terribad, for this late in development I'm starting to worry. They couldn't properly sync Mordin's eye or something and it was all **** eyed. I'm quite afraid of the bad that's going to happen to this game. OH MY GOD a melee weapon, holy **** guys. What next do we flip it over for massive damage? Perhaps shoot it in the head for a critical? A for awesome?

....not sure if serious...

[slimgrin]

Siansonea II wrote...

You can't judge a game by its demo.

I did though, with DA2. 

I'm not reading too much into this article, but damn that's harsh criticism.

[Cainne Chapel]

Oddly enough I enjoyed the DA2 Demo... yeah not DA:O standards, but I still got 2 good playthroughs on it (the game not the demo) but then maybe i'm just strange like that... I start a series, I finish it dangit.

I'm praying they right the ship for 3

[Mathias]

I don't think these guys are as smart as they try to make themselves out to be. They complain that the gameplay is awful and isn't innovative, yet they loved Mass Effect 2?

Huh?

Also from what i saw from the demos at E3 and the EA Live Broadcast a few weeks back, this game's gameplay looks incredible.

[Il Divo]

In Exile wrote...

Absolutely. It's a shame the JE team never got the magic back, even when some of them worked toghether to develop DA2 (Laidlaw was a lead writer & designer on JE). In fact, when you think about it, DA2 really tries to involve a lot of JE's spirit in the DA setting.

True enough. Maybe not Dragon Age 3, but I could definitely see the Jade Empire style working again in the future.

I would be completely comfortable if Bioware decided to remove the 'choose your mission' segments altogether. While they're almost always well-written, they're not necessary to the experience and other acclaimed rpgs (Planescape) have done fine without them. There probably wouldn't even be many complaints from fans as long as they left the dialogue, choices, and character interactions intact.

Modifié par Il Divo, 08 juillet 2011 - 04:28 .

[Someone With Mass]

Because no developer have ever tried to promote their own game.

And there were so many half-finished things in the demo, that judging the whole game of it is just stupid.

[Kilshrek]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

As long as the on rails sequence isn't the breadth of the game i have no problem with somethng like that when facing a 200ft tall reaper.  I mean did you think the vindicator or rocket launcher would put a dent in that thing?

In order to face such large foes in a game thats primarily on foot it would needed to be done either that way, a vehicle segment (which i'm sure we'll get) or through a cutscene of some sort.  Personally i'd rather an on-rails section or a cutscene to showcase the battle and set pieces myself

As for the Ilos section... you were just driving.  Not facing a freakin reaper.

Still dont see how that's shedding uniqueness for sameness...  i mean how else is shepard going to take a reaper out on foot (and barring a saren-like body link double... that still makes no sense to me...)?

Also 9 months from release what else are they gonna show?I mean honestly a majority of the game is spent in combat in both 1 and 2... why would 3 be any different?  Besides I as much as I like ME series conversations.  A trailer with random snippets of conversations (so they dont spoil anything) would be terribly dull.

Quite, I don't think anyone wants to play that Terminator tie in game(which I heard was completely on rails). Rather my point was that it seems that Bioware is attempting to do many "me-too" things with ME, regenerating health(complete with red screen), ammo pickups, and now a railed shooting segment against an enemy you can't possibly kill. It was slightly ridiculous in MW, where your RPG would simply never hit the chopper, because it has to survive to blow up the bridge ahead of you. It's just as ridiculous in ME 3, where you use a pea shooter against a planet killer. There's no reason at all to fire on the bloody thing, so why not just focus on the driving? In fact, wouldn't it have made more sense to let the player control the driver and have Shep call out directions to dodge in or something similar.

[XDMMX]

Kilshrek wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

As long as the on rails sequence isn't the breadth of the game i have no problem with somethng like that when facing a 200ft tall reaper.  I mean did you think the vindicator or rocket launcher would put a dent in that thing?

In order to face such large foes in a game thats primarily on foot it would needed to be done either that way, a vehicle segment (which i'm sure we'll get) or through a cutscene of some sort.  Personally i'd rather an on-rails section or a cutscene to showcase the battle and set pieces myself

As for the Ilos section... you were just driving.  Not facing a freakin reaper.

Still dont see how that's shedding uniqueness for sameness...  i mean how else is shepard going to take a reaper out on foot (and barring a saren-like body link double... that still makes no sense to me...)?

Also 9 months from release what else are they gonna show?I mean honestly a majority of the game is spent in combat in both 1 and 2... why would 3 be any different?  Besides I as much as I like ME series conversations.  A trailer with random snippets of conversations (so they dont spoil anything) would be terribly dull.

Quite, I don't think anyone wants to play that Terminator tie in game(which I heard was completely on rails). Rather my point was that it seems that Bioware is attempting to do many "me-too" things with ME, regenerating health(complete with red screen), ammo pickups, and now a railed shooting segment against an enemy you can't possibly kill. It was slightly ridiculous in MW, where your RPG would simply never hit the chopper, because it has to survive to blow up the bridge ahead of you. It's just as ridiculous in ME 3, where you use a pea shooter against a planet killer. There's no reason at all to fire on the bloody thing, so why not just focus on the driving? In fact, wouldn't it have made more sense to let the player control the driver and have Shep call out directions to dodge in or something similar.

Reminds me of how people in war movies waste ammo shooting at a tank, you would think they would get the hint and stop shooting at the tank after the 3rd shot harmlessly ricochets off its armor, duh its a TANK!

Oh look an M1 Abrams! lets waste the last of our ammo on it.

Or in Mass Effects case... Oh look a mile long Reaper ship that can take dreadnaught fire, I know lets waste the last of our thermal clips on it and when that doesn't work, lets try throwing rocks at it.

[Kilshrek]

XDMMX wrote...

Or in Mass Effects case... Oh look a mile long Reaper ship that can take dreadnaught fire, I know lets waste the last of our thermal clips on it and when that doesn't work, lets try throwing rocks at it.

Rocks should be moving slow enough to penetrate the kinetic barrier, and dent/scratch the paint job. That would ****** the Reaper off.

[Shotokanguy]

The problem with their thinking is that something is only good if it is innovative.

Who cares if grenades and melee finisher attacks aren't new? If it makes the game better than the last one...

[Terror_K]

Personally: I enjoyed the Anderson/Shepard on Earth bits, and most of the Sur'kesh stuff (even if the latter was a bit too melee focused and makes me concerned that too much of the combat will be focused on this as a whole).

The other demo was awful though. A bad on-the-rails section that didn't look to have much interactivity. And that stupid Reaper crab-tank thing. I seriously don't get how BioWare were seriously using this as an example of a good piece of ME3. If this is their example of trying to be epic, it just fails. I've seen bigger bosses in games, and quite frankly the crab-tank thing is almost a cliche in games today. It looked like something ripped straight out of Resistance 3 with some slightly more Reaper-ish decals. It's not fresh, it's not epic... it's just trite and lame.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Mr.Dioneo wrote...
The
low point was a scene shown at the end of the presentation. Attendees
were warned beforehand that this sequence would pack an emotional
wallop. It showed the hero of the series, Commander Shepard, trying to
save a boy from an alien invasion. Put it this way: If the scene were
submitted to the Hallmark Channel as a treatment for a Christmas
special, it would be rejected with the note “Too hokey.”
The old: The sad-little-boy sequence was the worst of the
demo

These people are insane.  I thought the scene was emotional, and I really liked it.  I thought it was very good.

Modifié par Neverwinter_Knight77, 08 juillet 2011 - 07:57 .

[Cainne Chapel]

Terror_K wrote...

Personally: I enjoyed the Anderson/Shepard on Earth bits, and most of the Sur'kesh stuff (even if the latter was a bit too melee focused and makes me concerned that too much of the combat will be focused on this as a whole).

The other demo was awful though. A bad on-the-rails section that didn't look to have much interactivity. And that stupid Reaper crab-tank thing. I seriously don't get how BioWare were seriously using this as an example of a good piece of ME3. If this is their example of trying to be epic, it just fails. I've seen bigger bosses in games, and quite frankly the crab-tank thing is almost a cliche in games today. It looked like something ripped straight out of Resistance 3 with some slightly more Reaper-ish decals. It's not fresh, it's not epic... it's just trite and lame.

Well TK given that the reapers already look like Crayfish...a crab-tank seems right up their design alley.

We've seen bigger in ME1 as well, but other than a cutscene or something, with the way the ME series is set up for mainly On foot fighting, how else would you make the Mini-reaper fight feasible?  Save for running around "inside" it and disabling it somehow?

I dont think the segment was "awful" at all, different sure, doesn't mean its bad, and you get to witness the action first hand rather than a clip/cutscene as it was in ME1 or even ME2 (Collector ship getting destroyed and all).

I mean if you're gonna harp on an On rails segment... may as well harp against all the shooter aspects of it wholesale.

[Terror_K]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Personally: I enjoyed the Anderson/Shepard on Earth bits, and most of the Sur'kesh stuff (even if the latter was a bit too melee focused and makes me concerned that too much of the combat will be focused on this as a whole).

The other demo was awful though. A bad on-the-rails section that didn't look to have much interactivity. And that stupid Reaper crab-tank thing. I seriously don't get how BioWare were seriously using this as an example of a good piece of ME3. If this is their example of trying to be epic, it just fails. I've seen bigger bosses in games, and quite frankly the crab-tank thing is almost a cliche in games today. It looked like something ripped straight out of Resistance 3 with some slightly more Reaper-ish decals. It's not fresh, it's not epic... it's just trite and lame.

Well TK given that the reapers already look like Crayfish...a crab-tank seems right up their design alley.

We've seen bigger in ME1 as well, but other than a cutscene or something, with the way the ME series is set up for mainly On foot fighting, how else would you make the Mini-reaper fight feasible?  Save for running around "inside" it and disabling it somehow?

Make it original instead of something that's been done before and is incredibly trite.

I dont think the segment was "awful" at all, different sure, doesn't mean its bad, and you get to witness the action first hand rather than a clip/cutscene as it was in ME1 or even ME2 (Collector ship getting destroyed and all).

It's only "different" for Mass Effect. Much like adding a bossfight with a giant reaper wish a gem that flashed every time you shot it would be "different' for Mass Effect, but not for games in general. To quote George Harrison in his Simpsons cameo, "it's been done." The "Crab Tank" style massive boss/enemy is only a few more games away from being a cliche.

I mean if you're gonna harp on an On rails segment... may as well harp against all the shooter aspects of it wholesale.

Seriously, the whole segment looked pointless: like no matter what you did it would play out exactly the same. It looked like the shots were doing nothing and that it was an illusion of gameplay. You may as well have just had a cutscene instead. It looked that "on the rails" and tiresome. If you're going to do an "on the rails" section you need to give it more than that did. Reminded me something that would suit Gears of War or (funnily enough, given the almost identical enemy) Resistance better than Mass Effect. It's just weak and trite.

I'm sick of saying "I thought the ME team/BioWare were better than that" over the last few years. My cases of saying that are slowly dwindling, not because they're getting better, but because my opinion of them is dropping more and more.

[Cainne Chapel]

Well I mean there's only so many "Original" ways to go about facing an enemy you cant damage on the standard "On Foot" scale.

Granted we only saw a few (10-20seconds) of the on the rails part, it may not be any longer the car chase scene from LOTSB, could they have done that as a cutscene as well? Sure, but I guess they felt it would have... I dunno, more "impact" if you controlled it, even for the 45 seconds it lasted.

Have scripted scenes like that been done before? Heck yes, but I felt it added to the game rather than detracted from it and it was technically and "on rails" segment as well.

Things dont always have to be vastly different from what has come before to be fun.

I also dont get that just because they use an on railssegment to showcase a massive enemy shepard and co. couldnt possibly handle on foot or any standard way, is a detraction from the bioware team as a whole or why it would cause your opinion of them to drop.

They're only human and no matter what else is said ME3 wont be the most "perfect" game in existence, that kind of hting wont ever exist....ever. So I don't even expect ME3 to be perfect, because it WONT be all things. But as long as they bring all the pieces of the puzzle together well, well I wont be dissapointed.

[Shotokanguy]

Terror_K wrote...

I'm sick of saying "I thought the ME team/BioWare were better than that" over the last few years. My cases of saying that are slowly dwindling, not because they're getting better, but because my opinion of them is dropping more and more.

I spent several minutes just now trying to put into words what I find so wrong with this kind of thinking. I hate seeing people post like this...but I couldn't quite explain why you shouldn't. You're entitled to your opinion, after all.

But it came to me. It's quite simple.

Stop treating these people like they're ****ing idiots. 

There is no such thing as them "being better than that". Implementing some sort of action game mechanic that you don't like doesn't make them lesser people, lesser skilled game developers, or worthy of such condescension. They are just trying to make a game that they think people will enjoy.

Go ahead and be disappointed if a game doesn't have things that you want, but please, if you have even a vestige of arrogance in your posts, realize it and get rid of it.  We're not talking about things that make one person better than the other, we are talking about what makes us different.

[Cainne Chapel]

I guess its just hard for me to pick games apart like TK does and then claim that because of one section or aspect of the game as a whole makes me feel like the developer let me down.

I dunno, maybe i'm too forgiving or i just realize on a fundamental level nothing is ever perfect and I take it for what it is.

TK, your opinion is your own to have, I wont argue with you on it. I will say I disagree on some of your stances and I do feel that some on these boards take things a bit TOO personally as if they feel they reserve right to hold sole judgement on a franchise that wasn't even conceptualized by them.

That said Bioware ISN'T perfect, they're human beings and thus are not infalliable and can make mistakes, that doesn't make me think of them any less or hold them in any different regard other than their one of my favorite developers, foibles aside.

Has there been issues in bioware games before? Heavens yes, just as there are issues in every single thing made by human beings anywhere, but dont hold them to a standard that is impossible to achieve where by any minor mistake they make makes them less of a great developer.

Shoto is right, it does come off as unbelievably arrogant. Because fact of the matter is, none of us hold sway over this franchise.

would it be terrible if the game became some generic TPS and lost all story elements, Hell yes, but given Bios track record, and the amount of enjoyment i've had over the previous 2 games in the series, I dont think we have to worry about that TOO much. Generic or Re-used genre elements aside.

[Shockwave81]

ME2 wasn't what I expected and I learned my lesson. Now, instead of cultivating excited 'what ifs and maybes', I'm overly critical and cynical about what I'm seeing.

I did not enjoy watching Anderson run about with his little pistol aimed in front of him like he was at a shooting range.

I did not feel concerned or 'emotional' about the little boy scene - in fact, it confused me as I originally thought that he was a hallucination caused by the nearby Reapers. In saying that, I probably would have been more concerned/emotional if it was a little girl hiding in the vents.

I did not enjoy the on-rail 'battle' with the Crab-Reaper. It came off as being shoe-horned into the game for the sake of suspense/drama. A perfect case of 'I've got a huge gun, but I'm not going to use it because it's better if I just chase you and get shot in the face'. I mean they even stopped for a moment when the beast was apparently slain - it's stale and it's been done in almost every freakin' horror/thriller movie I've ever seen.

I did enjoy the supercity sequence from the E3 gameplay demo as I've always wanted to see the Reapers in action.

I just don't want this game to suck. I really, really, REALLY don't want it to suck.

[Terror_K]

My issue with BioWare lately is not that they're just making mistakes, but they're making stupid mistakes that are more akin to deliberate sabotage and intentionally bad designs. Everybody makes mistakes and few games succeed in every aspect, but it wasn't until ME2 came along that they seemed to make some really deliberately bad moves, and the same then went for DA2. Most of their previous games' shortcomings didn't come from bad ideas and designs, but more from good ideas that weren't executed that well. Nowadays BioWare seem to be intentionally making bad moves for the sake of going for a more standardized game design, looking more to other games and emulating "current trends" far too often rather than just relying on themselves to make it work. A lot of calls these days from BioWare are making me roll my eyes and get frustrated and angry because they're not only falling into the same pits so many other developers do, but they seem to be running headlong into them. So much of ME2 and DA2 was trite, tired and even moronic, IMO, and in a very modern way.

Or perhaps its just the fact I don't like where the gaming industry (and even the entertainment industry as a whole) is going and even where it's at lately. I hate modern trends such as minamalist HUDs, the console-ification of games and particularly sequels, the focus on micro-transations, developers making games "more accessible" and "streamlined" etc., console and pre-order exclusive nonsense, DLC in games meant for other games, the fact that games as a whole are becoming these hybrids of brown mush made to appeal to as many as possible and feel soulless and lacking identity and originality as a whole. The list goes on, and to me BioWare were once a company above a lot of this nonsense. They're cheapening their products and themselves and slowly heading towards becoming one of the next generation's Activisions or LucasArts.

[The Unfallen]

They are naive.

[littlezack]

 I think, with ME, we have a rare case for a series. A lot of fans are so invested in this game, so ingrained in this vision of ME3, a game they've been invisioned playing for years, that anything that deviates from that vision causes them to immediately freak out and assume the absolute worse. Things that wouldn't even warrant discussion with most other games merit massive debate here.

It's sad in a way - I think ME3 is going to disappoint a lot of people. Not even because it'll be bad or anything, but because some people have built up this near-messaianic view of it, have a standard that could only be reached if they were making the games themselves.

[littlezack]

Terror_K wrote...

My issue with BioWare lately is not that they're just making mistakes, but they're making stupid mistakes that are more akin to deliberate sabotage and intentionally bad designs. Everybody makes mistakes and few games succeed in every aspect, but it wasn't until ME2 came along that they seemed to make some really deliberately bad moves, and the same then went for DA2. Most of their previous games' shortcomings didn't come from bad ideas and designs, but more from good ideas that weren't executed that well. Nowadays BioWare seem to be intentionally making bad moves for the sake of going for a more standardized game design, looking more to other games and emulating "current trends" far too often rather than just relying on themselves to make it work. A lot of calls these days from BioWare are making me roll my eyes and get frustrated and angry because they're not only falling into the same pits so many other developers do, but they seem to be running headlong into them. So much of ME2 and DA2 was trite, tired and even moronic, IMO, and in a very modern way.

Or perhaps its just the fact I don't like where the gaming industry (and even the entertainment industry as a whole) is going and even where it's at lately. I hate modern trends such as minamalist HUDs, the console-ification of games and particularly sequels, the focus on micro-transations, developers making games "more accessible" and "streamlined" etc., console and pre-order exclusive nonsense, DLC in games meant for other games, the fact that games as a whole are becoming these hybrids of brown mush made to appeal to as many as possible and feel soulless and lacking identity and originality as a whole. The list goes on, and to me BioWare were once a company above a lot of this nonsense. They're cheapening their products and themselves and slowly heading towards becoming one of the next generation's Activisions or LucasArts.

Yes, yes, you don't like the way Bioware is going and the state of gaming in general. We get it, already.

[Cainne Chapel]

You know I feel the exact opposite of you, I liked the way ME2 went *Loved it* in fact. I hope ME3 takes the best of ME1 and ME2.

Were there flaws? yeah, but overall I much enjoyd the game more than i've enjoyed most other games in years.

DA2, eh it was a good game for me, not great, not horrible, had issues, big issues, but I enjoyed it for what it was, it was no DA:O which is a shame, but i enjoyed it.

I honestly have no problem with the way Bioware is heading with Mass Effect, and I quite enjoyed the ME3 Demo,

Does that mean YOU have to enjoy it, by all means no. But just because it isnt your cup of tea, doesn't mean Bioware is going down ore becoming mediocre at all.

Once again, they're not gods among men, they're just... men. If it helps, i haven't ALWAYS been one hundred percent gung ho on ALL their games, BG games I enjoyed somewhat, same with NWN, Jade Empire was kinda meh to me, but I loved KOTOR and to an extent KOTOR 2.

So they have a decent track record with me in the fact that most all their games i've enjoyed to some extent, and I can say that very few dev houses to me, have accomplished that.

But I will not begrudge them one bit for changing a thing or two even in a series I enjoy such as ME. To be honest the transition from 1 to 2 I quite enjoyed and had no problem with. Does it need tweaks? yeah but what game doesnt?

Of course I only tend to frequent boards for things that I actively enjoy and I'm also quite the optimist.

[Icinix]

Terror_K wrote...

Or perhaps its just the fact I don't like where the gaming industry (and even the entertainment industry as a whole) is going and even where it's at lately. I hate modern trends such as minamalist HUDs, the console-ification of games and particularly sequels, the focus on micro-transations, developers making games "more accessible" and "streamlined" etc., console and pre-order exclusive nonsense, DLC in games meant for other games, the fact that games as a whole are becoming these hybrids of brown mush made to appeal to as many as possible and feel soulless and lacking identity and originality as a whole. The list goes on, and to me BioWare were once a company above a lot of this nonsense. They're cheapening their products and themselves and slowly heading towards becoming one of the next generation's Activisions or LucasArts.

This is very true and accurate of my own belief.

However - as the mainstream gaming goes the way of cheap entertainment - the indie scene is rising up superfast.

The downside is the indie scene is probably still a few years away from being a solid alternative.

My biggest gripe though of the last few years has been the marketing - games aside, the presentation of the gaming industry from all facets has definitely seemed to have a taken a step backward.