161 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

Rifneno wrote...

Demanding Alistair's execution if you support her, for one. It's politically pragmatic, yes, but I can't believe she had the gall to try and pull that right in front of the Warden. Even after you've spared her father, no less

So true. She deserved the noose just for that.

Nope. She deserves a crown for proving she has the backbone that is needed to be an efficient ruler.

Modifié par Persephone, 08 juillet 2011 - 10:24 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

I think that the events around Meredith's sister caused Meredith to become who she is. Her fanatism cannot be merely attributed to the idol. It started with her sister. The madness kicked in early - maybe because of the traumatic event.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 08 juillet 2011 - 10:45 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Persephone wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Demanding Alistair's execution if you support her, for one. It's politically pragmatic, yes, but I can't believe she had the gall to try and pull that right in front of the Warden. Even after you've spared her father, no less

So true. She deserved the noose just for that.

Nope. She deserves a crown for proving she has the backbone that is needed to be an efficient ruler.

Ah who cares about being a good leader these days anyway.
Far better to be a NICE ruler. 

[OmegaXI]

It adds alot to her charcter but that doesn't excuse her from going to far, she ended up becoming a moster while she was trying to fight monsters

[Rifneno]

Persephone wrote...

What do you think Eamon/Alistair will do to Anora in the end?

I don't know, but I'm hoping it involves Ser Alrik.

[Persephone]

Rifneno wrote...

Persephone wrote...

What do you think Eamon/Alistair will do to Anora in the end?

I don't know, but I'm hoping it involves Ser Alrik.

Jesus Christ, you REALLY disgust me.

[ReallyRue]

lucia 123 wrote...

ReallyRue wrote...

What conversation was it that led to her talking about her sister? I've had a couple of Hawkes that supported/sided with the templars, but I never got this.

If you played like I did - you did it half-heartedly.  That doesnt work.  Orsino will always be the one to give you the Best Served Cold quest.   What I did differently was at the start of Act 3 picked the option to tell Orsino to 'stand down' straight away without going into any other dialogue.  (Wanted to get it over with quick in case I changed my mind again).

The letter for Best Served Cold comes from Meredith.  Ask her why she hates Mages so much and she'll tell you about her sister and family. (Save be4 you start the dialogue with her because if you pick the wrong option first you wont get the story).

Thanks, I'll give that a go.

[Rifneno]

Persephone wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Persephone wrote...

What do you think Eamon/Alistair will do to Anora in the end?

I don't know, but I'm hoping it involves Ser Alrik.

Jesus Christ, you REALLY disgust me.

Thanks.

[lucia 123]

Fiddles_stix wrote...

I had the same moment OP. I still don't think it excuses Meredith's actions but I can see how it puts her on the road to the ending. I think thematically it works to compound the notion that we are all victims of circumstance to a certain extent.

No, doesnt excuse her at all.  But was good to get some insight/background on her, even if it isnt much - she's such a strong character in the game with hardly any story apart from - 'Im the crazy Knight Commander and you will all hate me' - its really annoying.   I want to know exactly how old she was when her family were killed, how old her sister was, what was she like when she joined the Templars, how old.....    lol,  gotta get back to work.

[Beerfish]

As usual, the mage supporters are more than happy to sweep under the rug the long list of examples of mages not tightly controlled going beserk and killing a whole lot of innocents. They are more outraged that some mages would be confined to their rooms for a few weeks than the hundreds of innocents killed.

As for Meredith being incompetent and the Kirkwall mage situation being no different than any other one? Pure Balderdash.

A first enchanter covering up the misdeeds of mages under his command.
A first enchanter knowingly consorting with a mage not of the circle dealing in blood magic.
Suddenly a whole pile of mages from another circle (Starkhaven) showing up and causing massive problems.
A whole whack of tevinter mages showing up to stir the pot.
A whole whack of her own templars deciding to do their own thing, some pro mage, some anti mage.
A 'Champion of Kirkwall' and his or her lackies show up and starts interfering with the mage, templar, chantry, viscount dynamic.

Meredith was crazy as a bat at the end of the game but she was facing pretty long odds of being able to get things under control. Considering the fact that there was a blood mage or abomination on every corner of Kirkwall her vigilance was well placed and her call for annulment when it was made was totally justified.

[GavrielKay]

Beerfish wrote...
As usual, the mage supporters are more than happy to sweep under the rug the long list of examples of mages not tightly controlled going beserk and killing a whole lot of innocents. They are more outraged that some mages would be confined to their rooms for a few weeks than the hundreds of innocents killed.

Or perhaps you could word it as "as usual, the mage supporters believe in 'innocent until proven guilty' and not blaming all mages for the acts of some of their number."  It is a pretty basic tenet of modern society and not too surprising that many players would bring that attitude with them into the game.

It is too convenient to de-humanize someone that has abilities you are afraid of and thus give yourself permission to ignore their rights.

People have a tendency to try to live up (or down) to expectations.  When you expect nothing more of mages than that they be beasts who will turn on you as soon as you look away, you do nothing but encourage that very behavior.  Meredith treats the mages with suspicion and contempt and creates an environment where the mages are abused and tortured.  It is not surprising that those mages will act out and otherwise try to escape her tightening grip.

Considering the fact that there was a blood mage or abomination on
every corner of Kirkwall her vigilance was well placed and her call for
annulment when it was made was totally justified.

Or you could say Meredith was obviously a complete failure at her job and should have been removed long before the Annulment issue came up.

Modifié par GavrielKay, 08 juillet 2011 - 06:56 .

[megski]

Persephone wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Demanding Alistair's execution if you support her, for one. It's politically pragmatic, yes, but I can't believe she had the gall to try and pull that right in front of the Warden. Even after you've spared her father, no less

So true. She deserved the noose just for that.

Nope. She deserves a crown for proving she has the backbone that is needed to be an efficient ruler.

I disagree.  The warden and Alistair sucked it up and risked life and limb to save her kingdom, a kingdom Alistair willingly would hand over to her.  Wanting him executed isn't proof of a backbone.  She probably still would have tried if either the warden or Alistair wouldn't have killed Loghain in front of her.  I think she was afraid to suggest it.   
I always envisioned Anora on borrowed time anyway.  I figured my warden didn't have time to watch over Ferelden at the moment, but eventually she would put  Alistair's son on the throne or have her own heir.  I still have a feeling that Anora is a snake in the grass.  

[DRTJR]

Both Eamon and (Can)The Warden be better at ruling a nation than Anora, and face it if you put Alister on the throne both you and Eamon are running the show.

[Rifneno]

megski wrote...

I disagree.  The warden and Alistair sucked it up and risked life and limb to save her kingdom, a kingdom Alistair willingly would hand over to her.  Wanting him executed isn't proof of a backbone.  She probably still would have tried if either the warden or Alistair wouldn't have killed Loghain in front of her.  I think she was afraid to suggest it.   
I always envisioned Anora on borrowed time anyway.  I figured my warden didn't have time to watch over Ferelden at the moment, but eventually she would put  Alistair's son on the throne or have her own heir.  I still have a feeling that Anora is a snake in the grass.  

It's plot armor. The reason she doesn't try to have him executed if Loghain dies is because they wanted to ensure the player has another Grey Warden to jump on the archdemon grenade. Don't know why, it'd actually be some awesome karmic backlash to let a douche warden (and you'd pretty much have to be since all you have to do to save Alistair is ask her not to do it) paint themselves into a corner. But there you have it.

DRTJR wrote...

Both Eamon and (Can)The Warden be better at ruling a nation than Anora, and face it if you put Alister on the throne both you and Eamon are running the show.

Agreed. It's a commonly held belief that Anora is some Camelot-esque ruler that's just awesome, but I've never seen any actual evidence of it. Like most politicians with a great reputation, she probably just has savvy PR. The fact she ends up purging the alienage does not speak well of her to me. Especially since it doesn't happen with Alistair ruling. Of course, assuming it ever happens. As we now know, epilogues are lies told by apostates seeking to spread subversion against the Chantry.

[Macropodmum]

megski wrote...

  I still have a feeling that Anora is a snake in the grass.  

First play through I put her on the throne (because my warden was elven and wanted to run off with Alistair), so I couldn't see why people didn't like her.  I opposed her second time around to put Alistair on the throne and that is when she showed her true colours, a definate snake in the grass

[Vit246]

Macropodmum wrote...

megski wrote...

  I still have a feeling that Anora is a snake in the grass.  

First play through I put her on the throne (because my warden was elven and wanted to run off with Alistair), so I couldn't see why people didn't like her.  I opposed her second time around to put Alistair on the throne and that is when she showed her true colours, a definate snake in the grass

Well, you are depriving Anora of the throne and queenship, so you don't really have the right to get mad at her for opposig you.

[DRTJR]

Alister is the Pro-Elf choice, as a city Elf Shianni became a close adviser, and The Warden became the Bann of the elves(Which gave the elves a voice in the landsmeet).

[Vit246]

Rifneno wrote...

Agreed. It's a commonly held belief that Anora is some Camelot-esque ruler that's just awesome, but I've never seen any actual evidence of it. Like most politicians with a great reputation, she probably just has savvy PR. The fact she ends up purging the alienage does not speak well of her to me. Especially since it doesn't happen with Alistair ruling. Of course, assuming it ever happens.

The Alienage purging is only her one failure. But no one can really deny her existing political leadership skills. Don't the epilogues with a Queen Anora say otherwise?

Modifié par Vit246, 09 juillet 2011 - 03:05 .

[Rifneno]

Macropodmum wrote...

First play through I put her on the throne (because my warden was elven and wanted to run off with Alistair), so I couldn't see why people didn't like her.  I opposed her second time around to put Alistair on the throne and that is when she showed her true colours, a definate snake in the grass

All hail Alistair the Mongoose!

Vit246 wrote...

Well, you are depriving Anora of the throne and queenship, so you don't really have the right to get mad at her for opposig you.

Since opposing means making desperate lies to keep her father the madman in power, whom she knows is going to lead the country to ruin by ignoring the blight to glare at the Orlesian border... yeah, we do have a right to get mad at her. This "great" ruler is putting her country on the chopping block in a desperate attempt to stay in power. Remember that old story about the king who said he was going to cut a baby in half to see who the real mother was, the one who cared for it enough to let it go? Anora wants half a baby. Not to mention Ferelden is a monarchy. Anora has no blood claim to the throne. That's how a monarchy works.

[DRTJR]

Anora's servant is also Orlesian, that's another failure. so Orlesian and Elf purges, I wish i could have killed her. also I don't blame Loghain,

[Macropodmum]

Rifneno wrote...

Macropodmum wrote...

First play through I put her on the throne (because my warden was elven and wanted to run off with Alistair), so I couldn't see why people didn't like her.  I opposed her second time around to put Alistair on the throne and that is when she showed her true colours, a definate snake in the grass

All hail Alistair the Mongoose! .

Lol, did always have a soft spot for small furry animals

Rifneno wrote...

Vit246 wrote...

Well, you are depriving Anora of the throne and queenship, so you don't really have the right to get mad at her for opposig you.

Since opposing means making desperate lies to keep her father the madman in power, whom she knows is going to lead the country to ruin by ignoring the blight to glare at the Orlesian border... yeah, we do have a right to get mad at her. This "great" ruler is putting her country on the chopping block in a desperate attempt to stay in power. Remember that old story about the king who said he was going to cut a baby in half to see who the real mother was, the one who cared for it enough to let it go? Anora wants half a baby. Not to mention Ferelden is a monarchy. Anora has no blood claim to the throne. That's how a monarchy works.

Not to mention the madman also betrayed her husband the king and that I saved her worthless, backstabbing hide.  I really wish there was the option to leave her locked up

Modifié par Macropodmum, 09 juillet 2011 - 03:17 .

[Vit246]

[quote]Rifneno wrote...

Since opposing means making desperate lies to keep her father the madman in power, whom she knows is going to lead the country to ruin by ignoring the blight to glare at the Orlesian border... yeah, we do have a right to get mad at her. This "great" ruler is putting her country on the chopping block in a desperate attempt to stay in power. Remember that old story about the king who said he was going to cut a baby in half to see who the real mother was, the one who cared for it enough to let it go? Anora wants half a baby.[/quote]

At that point, Loghain himself admitted the Blight to be a real threat, he just questions why Grey Wardens are needed. And he intended to deal with both the Blight and Orlais, despite how stupid that was.

Anora only opposes you in the first place if you stupidly make it clear that you will not support her or support Loghain not paying for his actions. How she does it is irrelevant. Anora is willing to oppose her father and give you her full support if you give yours as well. The only lie there can be is if the Warden gives the throne to Alistair after promising Anora the throne. As stupid as it is for Anora to support Loghain at that point, you did not give her much choice when negotiating with her.

[quote]Not to mention Ferelden is a monarchy. Anora has no blood claim to the throne. That's how a monarchy works.[/b]

Oh please. Bloodlines have no intrinsic value or effect on leadership skills. Bloodlines come and go. Monarchies don't need special blood to have good rulers. Cailan and an unhardened Alistair are weak kings with no real skill for ruling a kingdom. But if you want to get technical about it, Anora inherited nobility after Maric made Loghain a noble. Besides that, she has marriage claims to the throne.

[megski]

Rifneno wrote...

megski wrote...

I disagree.  The warden and Alistair sucked it up and risked life and limb to save her kingdom, a kingdom Alistair willingly would hand over to her.  Wanting him executed isn't proof of a backbone.  She probably still would have tried if either the warden or Alistair wouldn't have killed Loghain in front of her.  I think she was afraid to suggest it.   
I always envisioned Anora on borrowed time anyway.  I figured my warden didn't have time to watch over Ferelden at the moment, but eventually she would put  Alistair's son on the throne or have her own heir.  I still have a feeling that Anora is a snake in the grass.  

It's plot armor. The reason she doesn't try to have him executed if Loghain dies is because they wanted to ensure the player has another Grey Warden to jump on the archdemon grenade. Don't know why, it'd actually be some awesome karmic backlash to let a douche warden (and you'd pretty much have to be since all you have to do to save Alistair is ask her not to do it) paint themselves into a corner. But there you have it.

DRTJR wrote...

Both Eamon and (Can)The Warden be better at ruling a nation than Anora, and face it if you put Alister on the throne both you and Eamon are running the show.

Agreed. It's a commonly held belief that Anora is some Camelot-esque ruler that's just awesome, but I've never seen any actual evidence of it. Like most politicians with a great reputation, she probably just has savvy PR. The fact she ends up purging the alienage does not speak well of her to me. Especially since it doesn't happen with Alistair ruling. Of course, assuming it ever happens. As we now know, epilogues are lies told by apostates seeking to spread subversion against the Chantry.

I never thought about that really.  So, according to Loghain, Tevinter Maleficar slavers are ok...just no Orlesians!  After all that Anora purged the alienage too, bleh, so much for caring about the little people.  

[Macropodmum]

megski wrote...

I never thought about that really.  So, according to Loghain, Tevinter Maleficar slavers are ok...just no Orlesians!  After all that Anora purged the alienage too, bleh, so much for caring about the little people.  

Meh, the only person Anora cares about is herself, I doubt she even lamented Cailans death