161 réponses à ce sujet

[Rifneno]

Macropodmum wrote...

ROFL, I'm so terribly sorry, it slipped my mind that they would be more likely to turn her than to kill her.  On the other hand though do you think that might be a deterrant to them using humans as broodmothers if they had to listen to her all the time?

My God! That's it! The darkspawn would probably be committing mass suicide in a month! It's genius! 

Persephone wrote...

The failing is yours, namely your inability to accept ANY viewpoint that disagrees with your b/w narrow ,minded reduction of two fascinating characters to evil cardboard cutouts.

Aside from how one views said characters, you just described yourself to a T. The murdering harlot is some sort of hero to you and you take some grand personal offense when people voice disapproval of her. Get over her, and more importantly, get over yourself.

DRTJR wrote...

The Extent that Orsino knew of Quinton’s research is sketchy at best, and the benefits that could have arisen are fascinating, Orsino Probably didn't know how alive Quinton's subjects were. And after three years a Diplomatic and or sarcastic hawke probably would not have tried to Murder Orsino because he knew Quinton was doing stuff.

Everytime someone "gets it" about the Orsino/Quentin thing, an angel gets its wings. Thank you, good sir.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Wait, wait, wait... So you whine about her lying, and now you admit yourself that you are lying to her face. I'm just gonna let that peculiarity simmer for a moment....

Anora only backstabs the Warden if the Warden himself tries to sabotage her plans. If you go along with her plan, she doesn't backstab the Warden.

I don't care that she lies, everyone lies. It's the scope of the lie. Telling your wife that dress doesn't make her ass look fat is a little different from lying in court about witnessing a murder. In metagaming, I like to give her a taste of her own medicine. I also think Alrik should be made tranquil and made cattle for a blood mage, but I don't approve of tranquility and blood mages for the guy down the street.

As for backstabbing, if I go along with her completely, even sparing her father, she tries to have my best bud executed. Yeah, I call that a backstab. I don't really care if you do. And we all know Persephone wouldn't call it a betrayal if Anora was feeding Ferelden citizens to an ogre because she thought it was funny.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I don't give a flying rats ass about Alistair, so I don't really care, and even understand, for the reasons she wants him executed. Should also be mentioned though, that you can convince her to spare him. After which he throws a hissy fit and leaves like a scolded teenager.

And Ostagar may have beena betrayal to Cailan, but to actually try and save him, would have beena betrayal to Ferelden, since it would lose its army in vain, since Cailan was probably dead either way. What Loghain did ensured Ferelden even had an army after Ostagar.

[DRTJR]

Ostagar was a betrayal toward Cailin and the grey wardens, But saved ferelden from an Orlisian take over

[Elessara]

How did this topic get onto Anora/Alistair/DAO ?

Back on topic, I find the information about Meredith's sister interesting but agree with a previous poster that if it was meant to be important to the story then you'd have been able to find it out by other means. The fact that you find out only if you support the templars basically means it's there to make you more sympathetic to the side you've chosen.

[Persephone]

Rifneno wrote...

The murdering harlot is some sort of hero to you and you take some grand personal offense when people voice disapproval of her.

And we all know Persephone wouldn't call it a betrayal if Anora was feeding Ferelden citizens to an ogre because she thought it was funny.

Do not put words in my mouth, dearie. Especially not such blatant nonsense.

And how is Anora a "murderingharlot"? Ah, the joy of sexism. LOVELY.

You are the one getting all bent out of shape if people don't share your EXTREME hatred of Anora. She is not my favorite person either. I respect her as a ruler and politician. Hence why she usually ends up on the throne (With or without Alistair) in my runthroughs. Now follow your own advice and let it go.

[lucia 123]

Elessara wrote...

How did this topic get onto Anora/Alistair/DAO ?

Back on topic, I find the information about Meredith's sister interesting but agree with a previous poster that if it was meant to be important to the story then you'd have been able to find it out by other means. The fact that you find out only if you support the templars basically means it's there to make you more sympathetic to the side you've chosen.

Agreed - but,  unless you completely side with them - you dont see some of the story from their point of view. I do think its important though, I can only assume Bioware thought everybody would play the game every which way to get an all round view of what is really going on.  Reading this thread (the DO thing), I realise how much i missed by not doing that.

I have a question - (I cant remember clearly),.   When i sided with the mages am i right that the dead mages Orsino uses to do his party trick were supposedly killed by the Templars?   Because, on the Templar playthrough Orsino has killed them himself.  Seems too inconsistant to me if this is the case.  

[Plaintiff]

DRTJR wrote...

Ostagar was a betrayal toward Cailin and the grey wardens, But saved ferelden from an Orlisian take over

What Orlesian takeover? There's nothing at all to suggest the Orlesians had any such plans. The Blight is a threat to everyone and every nation of Thedas has a vested interest in ending it as soon as possible, it is not suspicious that a neighbouring country would want to lend aid in stopping the Blight, be it Orlais or anywhere else. As Cailan says, their war with Orlais is a thing of the past. Thirty years in the past, in fact. To put this in perspective: in 1970, nobody sane had any lingering butthurt over World War 2, because there were bigger problems in the then-and-there (which is exactly the situation in Origins).

Orlais is not a clear and present threat in Origins anymore than we would consider Germany or Japan to be one now. The Blight, however, is. Seeking an alliance with Empress Celene is a perfectly legitimate tacitc, even if it would have involved Cailan dumping Anora, which we receive no hint of in-game (not that I would blame him).

The first we hear of a real possibility of Orlesian invasion, as opposed to Loghain's paranoid droolings, is in act 3 of DA2 a full seven years later, when Alistair says there are some nobles who want to reclaim their old province. Some, not all. Orlais is not Mordor, there are just as many decent people in it as there are jerkasses, the possibility of war with Ferelden is an issue on which they are heavily divided. Not to mention, Loghain's betrayal and subsequent murder (yes, murder) of King Cailan would be a huge factor in the erosion of their uneasy truce. Killing a man with whom they were considering an alliance is only going to be seen as provocation. If Orlais does decide to invade Ferelden, it'll be Loghain's own damn fault.

[Plaintiff]

lucia 123 wrote...

Elessara wrote...

How did this topic get onto Anora/Alistair/DAO ?

Back on topic, I find the information about Meredith's sister interesting but agree with a previous poster that if it was meant to be important to the story then you'd have been able to find it out by other means. The fact that you find out only if you support the templars basically means it's there to make you more sympathetic to the side you've chosen.

Agreed - but,  unless you completely side with them - you dont see some of the story from their point of view. I do think its important though, I can only assume Bioware thought everybody would play the game every which way to get an all round view of what is really going on.  Reading this thread (the DO thing), I realise how much i missed by not doing that.

I have a question - (I cant remember clearly),.   When i sided with the mages am i right that the dead mages Orsino uses to do his party trick were supposedly killed by the Templars?   Because, on the Templar playthrough Orsino has killed them himself.  Seems too inconsistant to me if this is the case.  

Yes, the dead mages used to form the Harvester are supposedly killed by the Templars. It's a matter of gameplay/story segregation. Hawke can kill all the templars as soon as they get out of the door, but the cutscene is going to assume that they got in and killed most of the mages that you were trying to protect there, hence why Orsino is all maudlin and whatnot.

[DRTJR]

Plaintiff wrote...

DRTJR wrote...

Ostagar was a betrayal toward Cailin and the grey wardens, But saved ferelden from an Orlisian take over

What Orlesian takeover? There's nothing at all to suggest the Orlesians had any such plans. The Blight is a threat to everyone and every nation of Thedas has a vested interest in ending it as soon as possible, it is not suspicious that a neighbouring country would want to lend aid in stopping the Blight, be it Orlais or anywhere else. As Cailan says, their war with Orlais is a thing of the past. Thirty years in the past, in fact. To put this in perspective: in 1970, nobody sane had any lingering butthurt over World War 2, because there were bigger problems in the then-and-there (which is exactly the situation in Origins).

Orlais is not a clear and present threat in Origins anymore than we would consider Germany or Japan to be one now. The Blight, however, is. Seeking an alliance with Empress Celene is a perfectly legitimate tacitc, even if it would have involved Cailan dumping Anora, which we receive no hint of in-game (not that I would blame him).

The first we hear of a real possibility of Orlesian invasion, as opposed to Loghain's paranoid droolings, is in act 3 of DA2 a full seven years later, when Alistair says there are some nobles who want to reclaim their old province. Some, not all. Orlais is not Mordor, there are just as many decent people in it as there are jerkasses, the possibility of war with Ferelden is an issue on which they are heavily divided. Not to mention, Loghain's betrayal and subsequent murder (yes, murder) of King Cailan would be a huge factor in the erosion of their uneasy truce. Killing a man with whom they were considering an alliance is only going to be seen as provocation. If Orlais does decide to invade Ferelden, it'll be Loghain's own damn fault.

The Alince I get But King Cailan was going to Dump Anora(Who is suposedly infertal) for Empress Celene which would have then made Ferelden and Orlais one nation, and since Orlais is bigger then Ferelden would be absorbed into Orlais.

Codex entry: Cailan's Documents - Page 2 of 3


Your Majesty,
My men will arrive as soon as possible to bolster your forces. Maker willing, this Blight will be ended before it has begun.
Cailan, I beseech you, as your uncle, not to join the Grey Wardens on the Field. You cannot afford to take this risk. Ferelden cannot afford it. Let me remind you again that you do not have an heir. Your death--and it pains me even to think of it--would plunge Ferelden into chaos.
And yes, perhaps when this is over you will allow me to bring up the subject of your heir. While a son from both the Theirin and Mac Tir lines would unite Ferelden like no other, we must accept that perhaps this can never be. The queen approaches her thirtieth year and her ability to give you a child lessens with each passing month. I submit to you again that it might be time to put Anora aside. We parted harshly the last time I spoke of this, but it has been a full year since then and nothing has changed.
Please, nephew, consider my words, and Andraste's grace be with you.
-- "A letter from Arl Eamon to King Cailan[/i]"

Codex entry: Cailan's Documents - Page 3 of 3


(This letter appears to have been crumpled then carefully smoothed out and folded again[/i])

Cailan,


The visit to Ferelden will be postponed indefinitely, due to the darkspawn problem. You understand, of course? The darkspawn have odd timing, don't they? Let us deal with them first. Once that is done we can further discuss a permanent alliance between Orlais and Ferelden.


-- "A note written in an uncharacteristally familiar tone from Empress Celene to King Cailan[/i]"

[Plaintiff]

DRTJR wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

DRTJR wrote...

Ostagar was a betrayal toward Cailin and the grey wardens, But saved ferelden from an Orlisian take over

What Orlesian takeover? There's nothing at all to suggest the Orlesians had any such plans. The Blight is a threat to everyone and every nation of Thedas has a vested interest in ending it as soon as possible, it is not suspicious that a neighbouring country would want to lend aid in stopping the Blight, be it Orlais or anywhere else. As Cailan says, their war with Orlais is a thing of the past. Thirty years in the past, in fact. To put this in perspective: in 1970, nobody sane had any lingering butthurt over World War 2, because there were bigger problems in the then-and-there (which is exactly the situation in Origins).

Orlais is not a clear and present threat in Origins anymore than we would consider Germany or Japan to be one now. The Blight, however, is. Seeking an alliance with Empress Celene is a perfectly legitimate tacitc, even if it would have involved Cailan dumping Anora, which we receive no hint of in-game (not that I would blame him).

The first we hear of a real possibility of Orlesian invasion, as opposed to Loghain's paranoid droolings, is in act 3 of DA2 a full seven years later, when Alistair says there are some nobles who want to reclaim their old province. Some, not all. Orlais is not Mordor, there are just as many decent people in it as there are jerkasses, the possibility of war with Ferelden is an issue on which they are heavily divided. Not to mention, Loghain's betrayal and subsequent murder (yes, murder) of King Cailan would be a huge factor in the erosion of their uneasy truce. Killing a man with whom they were considering an alliance is only going to be seen as provocation. If Orlais does decide to invade Ferelden, it'll be Loghain's own damn fault.

The Alince I get But King Cailan was going to Dump Anora(Who is suposedly infertal) for Empress Celene which would have then made Ferelden and Orlais one nation, and since Orlais is bigger then Ferelden would be absorbed into Orlais.

Codex entry: Cailan's Documents - Page 2 of 3


Your Majesty,
My men will arrive as soon as possible to bolster your forces. Maker willing, this Blight will be ended before it has begun.
Cailan, I beseech you, as your uncle, not to join the Grey Wardens on the Field. You cannot afford to take this risk. Ferelden cannot afford it. Let me remind you again that you do not have an heir. Your death--and it pains me even to think of it--would plunge Ferelden into chaos.
And yes, perhaps when this is over you will allow me to bring up the subject of your heir. While a son from both the Theirin and Mac Tir lines would unite Ferelden like no other, we must accept that perhaps this can never be. The queen approaches her thirtieth year and her ability to give you a child lessens with each passing month. I submit to you again that it might be time to put Anora aside. We parted harshly the last time I spoke of this, but it has been a full year since then and nothing has changed.
Please, nephew, consider my words, and Andraste's grace be with you.
-- "A letter from Arl Eamon to King Cailan[/i]"

Codex entry: Cailan's Documents - Page 3 of 3


(This letter appears to have been crumpled then carefully smoothed out and folded again[/i])

Cailan,


The visit to Ferelden will be postponed indefinitely, due to the darkspawn problem. You understand, of course? The darkspawn have odd timing, don't they? Let us deal with them first. Once that is done we can further discuss a permanent alliance between Orlais and Ferelden.


-- "A note written in an uncharacteristally familiar tone from Empress Celene to King Cailan[/i]"

That's still not an invasion. Being absorbed into Orlais is only a problem if they get oppressed in the same way they were previously, which is by no means guaranteed, whatever Loghain might think. Marrying Celene would elevate Cailan to her level poltically and he would be in a position to ensure that the interests of his people were represented, and he might well be capable of doing that. Ferelden would have much to gain.

In fact, it would be possible for them to marry and still keep the nations separate. It would be unprecedented, sure, but we're talking about the people who make the laws, they can do whatever the hell they want.

[DRTJR]

the Hydra of Problems that arise are that while Cailin might protect Fereldens what would the Next succession of Orlisian royals do, Also who's to say once a child has been made, what would happen to Cailin since from codex entries we know her uncle the former Emporror died suddenly and mysteriously.

Their kid would be the heir for both Ferelden and Orlais. the Problem arises if they are sepreate nations the Child will have an advisor(Because there always is one) who convinces the child to retake his/her rightfull place on the throne of the other nation.

Fereldens at large are still on the whole still harbor resentment for the government of Orlais

and the Landsmeet would eat their beards and declair the "Former" King a trator and banish him thus pitting the Nobility(Who all either faught or are only one generation removed from those who faught) against Orlais even further.

[Sinaxi]

@Persephone...ok, we must have a very different opinion of what having "backbone" means. I didn't know having backbone meant using everyone around you to ensure you get what you want. That's called being manipulative and spineless which Anora demonstrates quite effectively. She cares only about maintaining her power and not much else. Case in point: she will jump to side against her father because it's the most conveinent, and when it's not she stands beside him. Her and her father are both snakes, under the illusion they are doing what's best when they just don't want to admit to themselves they can't stand to be opposed or have their power threatened. Now Alistair...sooo much better.