1154 réponses à ce sujet

[SwobyJ]

Reason with it however you will. Facts are: they came and apologized, said they were going to do something and didn't do it. As for the movie there's no telling how it would of turned out. I agree that many game-to-movie productions may have been bad, but it would be crazy to just assume that every future game-to-movie production will be bad as well. We just don't know how the movie would have been perceived by fans. Plus I don't see what's the big deal with canonizing when the series has been canonizing player decisions anyway; say Udina becoming councilor or Rachni queen still being alive no matter what our choices was from previous games.   

 

@the bolded:

 

Simple as that.

[dreamgazer]

@the bolded:
 
Simple as that.

Sunk-cost projects with little-to-no foreseeable market value are rarely that simple, often resulting in good intentions that fall through. That doesn't make them "lies".

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

Sunk-cost projects with little-to-no foreseeable market value are rarely that simple, often resulting in good intentions that fall through. That doesn't make them "lies".

 

By technical definition, yes, that does make them lies. While I agree that it isn't as simple as what's being presented, good intentions or no, BW did say that they would address the problem, and it has gone on un-addressed, and likely will permanently. That is a lie on BW's part.

[dreamgazer]

By technical definition, yes, that does make them lies. While I agree that it isn't as simple as what's being presented, good intentions or no, BW did say that they would address the problem, and it has gone on un-addressed, and likely will permanently. That is a lie on BW's part.

 

Until it can be proven that BW had no intention of making the corrections and that it wasn't a result of reevaluating the situation, no, it wasn't a lie. If that's lying, then anyone who's ever broken a prior pledge due to extenuating circumstances, be it time or money or distance, was "lying".

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

Until it can be proven that BW had no intention of making the corrections and that it wasn't a result of reevaluating the situation, no, it wasn't a lie. If that's lying, then anyone who's ever broken a prior pledge due to extenuating circumstances, be it time or money or distance, was "lying".

 

Yes, they were lying. That's what happens when you break a pledge, or an oath, or a promise, be it intentional or unintentional. Bioware lied since they never followed up on their initial response and have more or less ignored all other inquiries into the topic. Granted, I'm with you on the extenuating circumstances, but in a technical and legal perspective, they did indeed lie. You make a promise on time or money or distance in a business setting and it goes unfulfilled for whatever reason, that can become a legal issue.

[10K]

Yes, they were lying. That's what happens when you break a pledge, or an oath, or a promise, be it intentional or unintentional. Bioware lied since they never followed up on their initial response and have more or less ignored all other inquiries into the topic. Granted, I'm with you on the extenuating circumstances, but in a technical and legal perspective, they did indeed lie. You make a promise on time or money or distance in a business setting and it goes unfulfilled for whatever reason, that can become a legal issue.

OMG someone who knows the definition of a lie, I am totally in awe     

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

OMG someone who knows the definition of a lie, I am totally in awe     

 

I'm not opposed to it necessarily. Lying, like any action, is a tool to be used when necessary, and I find it advantageous to be skilled in it. So many people don't know how to lie, when Adolf Hitler himself said it best. Make a story, roll with it, don't change it, keep details the same, and keep repeating it so much that it becomes second nature. Of course, I'm a trained interrogator and semi-sociopath that knows how to get inside their mind. It's a skill. Use it well when needed, discard it when it's not needed. 

 

This is one of those cases where the truth is much better than a lie. That's the number one failing of most people who lie: they don't know when to stop and differentiate when the truth is better than lying. BW should have claimed that the project to update Deception was dead and just declare it as canonically ambiguous: certain events and the broad, overall plot of the book is to remain the same, but the details and what-hows can be called non-canon. That works best.

[dreamgazer]

Yes, they were lying. That's what happens when you break a pledge, or an oath, or a promise, be it intentional or unintentional. Bioware lied since they never followed up on their initial response and have more or less ignored all other inquiries into the topic. Granted, I'm with you on the extenuating circumstances, but in a technical and legal perspective, they did indeed lie. You make a promise on time or money or distance in a business setting and it goes unfulfilled for whatever reason, that can become a legal issue.

 

Then every single creative endeavor that has fallen through was a "lie", since they all involved pledges that were reconsidered.  

 

OMG someone who knows the definition of a lie, I am totally in awe     

 

Cute. As stated, until proven that BioWare had no intention of ever making the corrections, that wasn't a lie.

 

Parameters change, especially when resources are involved.

[dreamgazer]

This is one of those cases where the truth is much better than a lie. That's the number one failing of most people who lie: they don't know when to stop and differentiate when the truth is better than lying. BW should have claimed that the project to update Deception was dead and just declare it as canonically ambiguous: certain events and the broad, overall plot of the book is to remain the same, but the details and what-hows can be called non-canon. That works best.

 

Ultimately, I agree with this, even if it wasn't their original intention.  

 

The question becomes whether it's worth the effort to make this announcement now.  Who's it going to please, beyond bitter detractors looking for ammo?

[This is the End My Friend]

The cake was a lie?

[10K]

General Slotts OMG where have you been?!!!

[10K]

I'm not opposed to it necessarily. Lying, like any action, is a tool to be used when necessary, and I find it advantageous to be skilled in it. So many people don't know how to lie, when Adolf Hitler himself said it best. Make a story, roll with it, don't change it, keep details the same, and keep repeating it so much that it becomes second nature. Of course, I'm a trained interrogator and semi-sociopath that knows how to get inside their mind. It's a skill. Use it well when needed, discard it when it's not needed. 

 

This is one of those cases where the truth is much better than a lie. That's the number one failing of most people who lie: they don't know when to stop and differentiate when the truth is better than lying. BW should have claimed that the project to update Deception was dead and just declare it as canonically ambiguous: certain events and the broad, overall plot of the book is to remain the same, but the details and what-hows can be called non-canon. That works best.

I know lying is a tool, and I can understand sometimes it is necessary. But all I was trying to get across at the very beginning of this entire ordeal, was BW said they were going do something but never actually did it. Weather they had the resources to do so or not was never my concern. I agree, they should of claimed that the project surrounding Deception was dead, but they didn't. They lie, which doesn't make them bad, it just makes them another company. It's something they must do to maintain their image when it's threatened, it's necessary. I get that. 

 

Edit:

@Dreamgazer

Proof isn't needed to determine if BW had no intentions to correct Deception because a lie can be unintentional. They unintentionally lied, they probably didn't do it on propose, but they did it. It's okay that they lied, it's cool.

 

Also Off topic: @Hello!I'mTheDoctor 

did you have another account username: Dr. Doctor?

[dreamgazer]

Again, if that's a lie, then so many other things involving business, creative, and personal issues that are impacted by changing situations also becomes lies, when they absolutely aren't.

[10K]

Well they are technically, but aren't taken seriously as such. A lie is defined by being both intentional and unintentional. 

[SwobyJ]

Sunk-cost projects with little-to-no foreseeable market value are rarely that simple, often resulting in good intentions that fall through. That doesn't make them "lies".

 

I'm fine with nothing else being done.

 

I'm not so fine with it just being dropped with no information given.

[dreamgazer]

Well they are technically, but aren't taken seriously as such. A lie is defined by being both intentional and unintentional. 

 

Just for the hell of it, can you elaborate on the concept of an "unintentional lie"?

[This is the End My Friend]

General Slotts OMG where have you been?!!!

 

LOL. I mainly hang my hat in the Off-Topic forum these days. 

[10K]

Just for the hell of it, can you elaborate on the concept of an "unintentional lie"?

Here's a definition of lie:  An untrue or inaccurate statement that may or may not be believed true by the speaker.

 

An unintentional lie is when the speaker of that lie believes they will do what they actually said, but never actually does it. Ex. BW may have believed they'll actually make corrections, but never does it. They believed what they said, but in the end it never came to fruition. They didn't do it on purpose, but they did do it.

 

I mean, their statement wasn't exactly true. Can you say their statement was true? 

[dreamgazer]

Here's a definition of lie:  An untrue or inaccurate statement that may or may not be believed true by the speaker.

 

An unintentional lie is when the speaker of that lie believes they will do what they actually said, but never actually does it. Ex. BW may have believed they'll actually fix the corrections, but never does it. They believed what said, but in the end it never came to fruition.

 

I mean, their statement wasn't exactly true. Can you say their statement was true? 

 

Yeah, you might want to look at a few more accurate definitions of the word lie, which is correctly defined as "an intentionally false statement". An untrue or inaccurate statement believed true by the speaker is not a lie.  Among other things, that's a mistake.

 

Can't say whether the statement was, at the time, either true or false. Del Ray very well might have those corrections on file somewhere, without executing the reprints. But as I've stated several times, situations change (especially in printed mediums), and decisions impacted by a changing climate aren't immediately dismissed as lies.  Deception was the definition of a money pit, and I wouldn't blame them whatsoever for abandoning any reprints after reevaluation.

 

Might be nice of them to provide an update once and for all, but, really, it's Deception.

[10K]

There's more than one definition of lie, and the one I provided is a correct definition from the Merriam Webster dictionary. I don't care if they abandoned Deception, from the beginning I've stated this. I could careless about that book. I wrote in my first post that they lied; my opinion was refuted so I refuted back. You believe they didn't lie, I believe they did we're not getting anywhere because no one is changing anyone's mind so let's drop it. At least we can agree that no one cares about Deception, so that's something.    

[dreamgazer]

There's more than one definition of lie, and the one I provided is a correct definition from the Merriam Webster dictionary. I don't care if they abandoned Deception, from the beginning I've stated this. I could careless about that book. I wrote in my first post that they lied; my opinion was refuted so I refuted back. You believe they didn't lie, I believe they did we're not getting anywhere because no one is changing anyone's mind so let's drop it. At least we can agree that no one cares about Deception, so that's something.    

 

Merrian Webster: an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker to be untrue with intent to deceive.

 

But yeah, it's probably best to move on from that, because one cannot prove either way whether the statement was a lie.

[10K]

Link: http://www.merriam-w.../dictionary/lie

 

Fourth definition Letter B: An untrue or inaccurate statement that may or may not be believed true by the speaker.

[SwobyJ]

Its just the looser definition Dreamgazer, sheesh. It still is one.

[dreamgazer]

When it comes to accusing folks of lying, the distinction is important.