1476 odpowiedzi w tym temacie

[Made Nightwing]

Okay, a lot of people are still pretty sore about the Horizon incident and say they will let the VS remain on the ship instead of taking them on missions. The main reasons for this is that they feel they can no longer trust Kaidan/Ashley after the argument on Horizon.

To fix this, I'd like to see Ashley/Kaidan show that they ARE still loyal to Shepard, and that they're willing to follow him/her into hell if necessary. This doesn't mean that they become afraid to voice counter opinions to Shepard, I don't want their attitude changed, but I would like to see just one bit where they defy illogical orders from the Council or Alliance in order to do what's right with Shepard.

I use the example that people seem to like, that with Ashley/Kaidan's new spectre status, they will challenge Shepard's leadership on the Normandy.

For Ashley:

Ambassador Udina (over holo-imager): Shepard, you need to get the Normandy to the Citadel to help the fleet.
Shepard: We can't hold on to the Citadel, we need to evacuate and fortify a holdable position. Get the fleet out of there.
Udina: I'm giving you an order Shepard.
Shepard: I'm sorry sir, I can't follow that order. I'll bring help as fast as I can, but I won't ride in alone. Goodbye.
Udina: Shepard, don't you...(is cut off)
Ashley: Commander, as an official Council Spectre, I must formally protest your illegal seizure of Alliance property and mutiny against a direct order.
Shepard: Duly noted.
Ashley: Good. Now that that's over with, what's the plan?

For Kaidan (particularly after the arguments about him pulling rank on Shepard)"

Kaidan: Hmm, my orders are to keep you under close surveillance and take the Normandy to Arcturus.
Shepard: Really?
Vega: Sorry ma'am, but Commander Alenko has to follow orders just like the rest of us.
Shepard: Yeah, I gues you're....
Kaidan: But, in all the confusion, it seems I've misplaced my omni-tool, so I can't access those orders. I guess I'll have to act on my own initiative and follow the recommendations given to me by my former commander.
Vega: Ah...boss? What about your orders?
Kaidan: What orders Lieutenant?
Vega: The orders you........what orders? I haven't heard any orders. Guess we'll just have to go with Shepard's recommendation.

[Fleetleader101]

I hadnt heard of this issue yet, but I dont obsess here all the time either so shame on me.

I like this idea, and I guess I figure it will go down somewhat like that.

[crimzontearz]

no..that would feel like a cop-out

[darthnick427]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Okay, a lot of people are still pretty sore about the Horizon incident and say they will let the VS remain on the ship instead of taking them on missions. The main reasons for this is that they feel they can no longer trust Kaidan/Ashley after the argument on Horizon.

To fix this, I'd like to see Ashley/Kaidan show that they ARE still loyal to Shepard, and that they're willing to follow him/her into hell if necessary. This doesn't mean that they become afraid to voice counter opinions to Shepard, I don't want their attitude changed, but I would like to see just one bit where they defy illogical orders from the Council or Alliance in order to do what's right with Shepard.

I use the example that people seem to like, that with Ashley/Kaidan's new spectre status, they will challenge Shepard's leadership on the Normandy.

For Ashley:

Ambassador Udina (over holo-imager): Shepard, you need to get the Normandy to the Citadel to help the fleet.
Shepard: We can't hold on to the Citadel, we need to evacuate and fortify a holdable position. Get the fleet out of there.
Udina: I'm giving you an order Shepard.
Shepard: I'm sorry sir, I can't follow that order. I'll bring help as fast as I can, but I won't ride in alone. Goodbye.
Udina: Shepard, don't you...(is cut off)
Ashley: Commander, as an official Council Spectre, I must formally protest your illegal seizure of Alliance property and mutiny against a direct order.
Shepard: Duly noted.
Ashley: Good. Now that that's over with, what's the plan?

For Kaidan (particularly after the arguments about him pulling rank on Shepard)"

Kaidan: Hmm, my orders are to keep you under close surveillance and take the Normandy to Arcturus.
Shepard: Really?
Vega: Sorry ma'am, but Commander Alenko has to follow orders just like the rest of us.
Shepard: Yeah, I gues you're....
Kaidan: But, in all the confusion, it seems I've misplaced my omni-tool, so I can't access those orders. I guess I'll have to act on my own initiative and follow the recommendations given to me by my former commander.
Vega: Ah...boss? What about your orders?
Kaidan: What orders Lieutenant?
Vega: The orders you........what orders? I haven't heard any orders. Guess we'll just have to go with Shepard's recommendation.

This is the best idea for these characters ever. It stays true to their personalities and it reminds us why we liked them in the first place

[m00nsh1ne]

The whole trust thing will get resolved the first conversation you have with the VS. They would want something like that out of the way early so they can focus on more important things. And besides unless you were a major a-hole towards them on Horizon it didn't end as badly as some people make it out to be. And a lot of the tension was created from the shock of seeing somebody that the VS watch die and suddenly reappear. Nobody in their right mind can handle that like it was the most normal thing in the world.

[Malanek]

The first thing they should do is back Shepard up at the trial. Testify that Shepard saved the colony on horizon and it was under attack by collectors just as he said.

[crimzontearz]

m00nsh1ne wrote...

The whole trust thing will get resolved the first conversation you have with the VS. They would want something like that out of the way early so they can focus on more important things. And besides unless you were a major a-hole towards them on Horizon it didn't end as badly as some people make it out to be. And a lot of the tension was created from the shock of seeing somebody that the VS watch die and suddenly reappear. Nobody in their right mind can handle that like it was the most normal thing in the world.

if you say so......

[Made Nightwing]

I'd prefer that there be just a little bit of tension, this is a Bioware game after all.

[Sheppard-Commander]

Well, I have issue with your Shepard. It seems he has lost his sack. Even if you regain your Spectre status, when was the last time you heard Shepard address a council member in such a subordinate manner? And my Renegade/former Spectre sure as hell wont be kissing Udina's ass like that.

Udina is a councilor, not an Admiral. Him barking orders at Shepard with what to do with (presumably) now a ship that is Alliance property doesnt jive. It also should be mentioned that the SR2 became Shepard's property at the end of ME3.

While not inaccurate or anything...From those conversation I got the strong urge to beat Kaidan and Vega.

[JaceTAce]

In ME2 the only reason they weren't willing to cooperate with Shepard was because of the current affiliation he/she had with Cerberus. Even then, they still showed some trust and belief in him, more so if they were your ME1 love interest. Since we're finally going up against the Reapers, given no choiuce but to work with each other, and since we are aparently going up against Cerberus as well for currently reasons not ENTIRELY known, they'll likely act in a similar manner to the above thoughts. Just saying.

[Made Nightwing]

Sheppard-Commander wrote...

Well, I have issue with your Shepard. It seems he has lost his sack. Even if you regain your Spectre status, when was the last time you heard Shepard address a council member in such a subordinate manner? And my Renegade/former Spectre sure as hell wont be kissing Udina's ass like that.

Udina is a councilor, not an Admiral. Him barking orders at Shepard with what to do with (presumably) now a ship that is Alliance property doesnt jive. It also should be mentioned that the SR2 became Shepard's property at the end of ME3.

While not inaccurate or anything...From those conversation I got the strong urge to beat Kaidan and Vega.

The SR-2 DID become Shepard's property, but from the demos, it appears to be covered in Alliance colours and symbols, so it's reasonable to assume the Alliance now has a stake in it.

I imagine Vega at being slightly 'shocked' at Shepard and Kaidan's way of doing things.

My Shepard tends to speak softly/respectfully to authority figures, but does whatever he wants to do anyway. Ash was just fooling around before getting down to kicking some ass.

[Badpie]

I think we have bigger issues than a heart to heart about a five minute conversation where both people were jerks. I hope they touch on it, but I'd like it to be minimal. Like - okay that happened but whatever. Now let's kick some ass (and kiss and stuff, if the VS was your romance...ha.).

[marshalleck]

I think Shepard should prove he or she is still loyal to them, not the other way around. They weren't the ones who who mysteriously turned up two years after supposedly dying, working for a terrorist organization.

[Made Nightwing]

Badpie wrote...

I think we have bigger issues than a heart to heart about a five minute conversation where both people were jerks. I hope they touch on it, but I'd like it to be minimal. Like - okay that happened but whatever. Now let's kick some ass (and kiss and stuff, if the VS was your romance...ha.).

I'd just like to see it referenced. Like it or not there ARE those who genuinely feel like they can't trust their old team mate. It wouldn't be much writing to through in, and it would convince those who are playing it for the first time that Ash Is Worth It.

[Sheppard-Commander]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Sheppard-Commander wrote...

Well, I have issue with your Shepard. It seems he has lost his sack. Even if you regain your Spectre status, when was the last time you heard Shepard address a council member in such a subordinate manner? And my Renegade/former Spectre sure as hell wont be kissing Udina's ass like that.

Udina is a councilor, not an Admiral. Him barking orders at Shepard with what to do with (presumably) now a ship that is Alliance property doesnt jive. It also should be mentioned that the SR2 became Shepard's property at the end of ME3.

While not inaccurate or anything...From those conversation I got the strong urge to beat Kaidan and Vega.

The SR-2 DID become Shepard's property, but from the demos, it appears to be covered in Alliance colours and symbols, so it's reasonable to assume the Alliance now has a stake in it.

I imagine Vega at being slightly 'shocked' at Shepard and Kaidan's way of doing things.

My Shepard tends to speak softly/respectfully to authority figures, but does whatever he wants to do anyway. Ash was just fooling around before getting down to kicking some ass.

That still doesnt explain where Udina gets off ordering Alliance property around in a combat scenario, does it? He has no rank, his only power is representative. Can a Congressman or Senator order the USS Ronald Reagan to attack Malta? At best, his authority would be derived from being a Councilmember and Shepard being a Spectre, yet that was only a possible outcome in ME2 and not even necessarily a dynamic that still exists in ME3 even if your status was reinstated in ME2.

I'll concede the point about Vega...he is likely still a by-the-book personality. Doesnt mean I dont want to take him down a few pegs after your dialogue.

Użytkownik Sheppard-Commander edytował ten post 07 lipiec 2011 - 12:17

[Malanek]

marshalleck wrote...

I think Shepard should prove he or she is still loyal to them, not the other way around. They weren't the ones who who mysteriously turned up two years after supposedly dying, working for a terrorist organization.

Well Shepard wasn't the one casting false accusations and spying on the VS. The lack of trust was on the VS's part. I think reviewing what happened on horizon should have actually cleared that up for them though. They were just slow to evaluate the situation.

[Sheppard-Commander]

Malanek999 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

I think Shepard should prove he or she is still loyal to them, not the other way around. They weren't the ones who who mysteriously turned up two years after supposedly dying, working for a terrorist organization.

Well Shepard wasn't the one casting false accusations and spying on the VS. The lack of trust was on the VS's part. I think reviewing what happened on horizon should have actually cleared that up for them though. They were just slow to evaluate the situation.

I seem to remember dialogue from Shepard in ME2 where he tells Liara that Cerberus lured the Collectors to Horizon. So...those accusations really werent all that far off base.

[Jazharah]

I am in full support. It was gawdawful to meet them on Horizon, and this will make up for a lot of lost trust.

Shepard leaving Cerberus, in turn, should give them their lost trust as well.

[AngelicMachinery]

Malanek999 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

I think Shepard should prove he or she is still loyal to them, not the other way around. They weren't the ones who who mysteriously turned up two years after supposedly dying, working for a terrorist organization.

Well Shepard wasn't the one casting false accusations and spying on the VS. The lack of trust was on the VS's part. I think reviewing what happened on horizon should have actually cleared that up for them though. They were just slow to evaluate the situation.

I think everyone on horizon especially Shepard were infected by DERP.  

[marshalleck]

Shepard is of course, always perfect and beyond reproach. Pfft.

[marshalleck]

Malanek999 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

I think Shepard should prove he or she is still loyal to them, not the other way around. They weren't the ones who who mysteriously turned up two years after supposedly dying, working for a terrorist organization.

Well Shepard wasn't the one casting false accusations and spying on the VS. The lack of trust was on the VS's part. I think reviewing what happened on horizon should have actually cleared that up for them though. They were just slow to evaluate the situation.

The accusations weren't false. 

[Malanek]

marshalleck wrote...
The accusations weren't false. 

They were. It was the Collectors abducting humans, not Cerberus.

[Malanek]

Sheppard-Commander wrote...
I seem to remember dialogue from Shepard in ME2 where he tells Liara that Cerberus lured the Collectors to Horizon. So...those accusations really werent all that far off base.

Well actually the Collectors targetted Horizon specifically because the VS was there. Cerberus deliberately released intel which the collectors used to discover that. But Cerberus was not doing the abduction and was actually trying to stop it.

[Kasai666]

I love the Ash one, it made me laugh. As for Kaiden...I'm not sure.

[marshalleck]

Malanek999 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
The accusations weren't false. 

They were. It was the Collectors abducting humans, not Cerberus.

They were there investigating reports that Shepard was alive and working with Cerberus, and that it had something to do with the missing colonists. They never accuse Shepard of abducting anyone, but they do express grave concerns over Shepard's temporary alliance with Cerberus. Try to see it from their perspective; Shepard disappears, presumed dead. Alliance/Citadel receives reports (later revealed by TIM that he was the one who fed them) that Shepard is alive and working with Cerberus, and that Horizon might be the next colony attacked. Not wanting to believe any of this could be true, the VS goes to Horizon to wait and watch. Sure enough, colonists get attacked and then Shepard shows up with Cerberus flunkies in tow (sure they may not have actually been in your party in your playthrough, whatever, deal with it) and what is the VS supposed to think? That's confirmation of all the rumors they'd heard, and were hoping to dispel. Not find out it was all apparently true. As for whether Cerberus was behind it...well, TIM basically instigated that attack with more of his carefully planted rumors. So in a way, Cerberus was behind them. 

Shepard's the one whose loyalties are in question, not Kaidan or Ashley's. As they both said, they're still with the Alliance.

Użytkownik marshalleck edytował ten post 07 lipiec 2011 - 12:43