rapscallioness wrote...
@nightwing..wtf kinda text wall was that a few posts ago? Are you making some kinda artistic statement about the futile nature of this argument?
iakus wrote...
rapscallioness wrote...
Hey, it was our first lover's quarrel. Bound to happen. If BW does it right, it could add some nice depth to the relationship.
I do believe that was the point of the thread. How would you resolve it if you were writing it for BW?
If I were writing, some possibilities could be (roughly in order of seriousness):
1) the "Rumors" the VS heard were truly frightening and horrific. Shepard had been committing terrible acts for Cerberus. Stuff they simply don't want to believe, but Shepard's presence on Horizon somehow made these rumors a lot more credible. In essence, TIM is deliberately driving a wedge between them so Shepard will be all teh more dependant on him. In ME3, Shepard learns of these rumors and is able to put them to rest (maybe)
2) The Alliance (or maybe the Council) for as yet unspecified reasons, have ordered the VS to not make contact with Shepard. Once the initial shock of meeting Shepard wore off, the VS quickly fabricated a reason to get off Horizon asap In essence, the VS blew Shep off on purpose, but does not seriously doubt Shep's loyalty. The reason behind the instructions will be made clear in ME3
3) Shepard was concussed form the praetorian fight. The VS was still dazed from the stasis field. Thus they both said really stupid things they both regret. Both sides enjoy a nervous laugh after having a good sit-down and put it behind them
4) Shepard and /or the VS actually do have a control chip implanted in them at some point. TIM manipulated the conversation (perhaps as a variation of #1) Use of the chip is judicious to preserve cognitive functions. The chip will play a greater role in the conflict against Cerberus in ME3
5) TIM threatened the friends and family of the VS. Back off from Shepard or else. This will come to light as part of the "Cerberus is the enemy...again..." storyline in ME3
6) Whatever cybernetics were holding Shepard's brain together had a temporary short. Hearing, mental processing, and speech centers were all affected. Shep and VS will look back at this later and laugh.
Made Nightwing wrote...
rapscallioness wrote...
@nightwing..wtf kinda text wall was that a few posts ago? Are you making some kinda artistic statement about the futile nature of this argument?
As a matter of fact, I just screwed up the quote positions, but your interpretation works just as well.
Shepard paragon dialog choice "Ash/Kaidan I'm sorry for making you think I was working for Cerberus, but..."
Ashley/Kaidan (interupts Shepard) "I know Shepard, and I'm sorry for reacting the way I did, but..."
(Shepard continues for VS)"But we need to defeat the reapers and we can keep talking more soon" (cue corny Shepard smile)
Shepard Renegade dialog choice "Look I did what I had to do to save humanity, yes I was using Cerberus resources, but I will not apologize for saving so many people from the Collecters." (Shepard turns and walks away)
Ashley/Kaidan "..." (Closeup of VS' face showing dissapointment, then VS walks away too)
Modifié par ZeroDragon980, 19 juillet 2011 - 06:09 .
Bnol wrote...
whywhywhywhy wrote...
Exactly. I'll never use the VS unless forced to and even then I'll ust send her off to get killed then 2 man team it to the objective. Heck I do that now with Jacob when I do play him but that's because I believe him to be a alliance Corsair spy. And he doesn't look for a friendship with maleshep when a brother doesn't want to bond with another brother something's wrong with that (jacob) brother.
For a Paragon Shepard Jacob forms a friendship, even declaring that they will "get loud and spill some drinks on the Citadel" once the collectors are dealt with.
iakus wrote...
whywhywhywhy wrote...
Exactly.
I'll never use the VS unless forced to and even then I'll ust send her
off to get killed then 2 man team it to the objective. Heck I do that
now with Jacob when I do play him but that's because I believe him to be
a alliance Corsair spy. And he doesn't look for a friendship with
maleshep when a brother doesn't want to bond with another brother
something's wrong with that (jacob) brother.
I'm
not going to let one moment of really really bad writing wreck the
character for me. I'm going to wait and see what happens in ME3.
Though
I really hope something is done to resolve the issue.
Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 19 juillet 2011 - 09:25 .
whywhywhywhy wrote...
Bnol wrote...
whywhywhywhy wrote...
Exactly. I'll never use the VS unless forced to and even then I'll ust send her off to get killed then 2 man team it to the objective. Heck I do that now with Jacob when I do play him but that's because I believe him to be a alliance Corsair spy. And he doesn't look for a friendship with maleshep when a brother doesn't want to bond with another brother something's wrong with that (jacob) brother.
For a Paragon Shepard Jacob forms a friendship, even declaring that they will "get loud and spill some drinks on the Citadel" once the collectors are dealt with.
My paragon bar is full but I don't make all paragon choices could that be why I haven't seen it ? I guess I'll try it again, with jacob. Thanks.........I still think he's a spy though.
ktaylor2 wrote...
Ok. Maybe I'm a bit behind. But what the hell does VS stand for int his instance?
whywhywhywhy wrote...
While I agree the writing sucked and the storyline is horrid in ME2, I can't write it off the VS's (ash in my case) actions so simply. One thing is clear despite the player not being able to actually decide anything meaningful in me2, the point of the scene is that Ash doesn't give you a Chance to explain. Regardless how the scene is handle this is what Ashley's character is now and Sheperd was blindsighted. When he woke up the first thing he did was ask about his team, when Ash first sees him she greets then attacks him. Why Should Sheperd be the one to convince Her she's wrong ? Even if better written and I could convince her I don't know if I would if Traitor is part of her dialog.
And to all the others saying people who don't like the VS are "butthurt" or wanted her/him to "bow down" you couldn't be further from the truth. It isn't about Sheperd at all it's about the reapers an the VS survivor knows that but goes crazy because Cerberus wants to fight the Collectors/Reapers. They've shown that they are unreliable and since I never considered Ash a LI but liked her as a Soldier her now questionable judgement she's useless to me.
LOLandStuff wrote...
I have no intention of apologizing or gaining their trust. I'll just do my job of saving the galaxy as a soldier or Spectre and not Alliance.I have others I can trust on my team and who didn't throw me a hissy fit.
But I'll be really butt hurt if they're in command of the Normandy. I stole that ship and it is rightfully mine.
whywhywhywhy wrote...
While I agree the writing sucked and the storyline is horrid in ME2, I can't write it off the VS's (ash in my case) actions so simply. One thing is clear despite the player not being able to actually decide anything meaningful in me2, the point of the scene is that Ash doesn't give you a Chance to explain. Regardless how the scene is handle this is what Ashley's character is now and Sheperd was blindsighted. When he woke up the first thing he did was ask about his team, when Ash first sees him she greets then attacks him. Why Should Sheperd be the one to convince Her she's wrong ? Even if better written and I could convince her I don't know if I would if Traitor is part of her dialog.
And to all the others saying people who don't like the VS are "butthurt" or wanted her/him to "bow down" you couldn't be further from the truth. It isn't about Sheperd at all it's about the reapers an the VS survivor knows that but goes crazy because Cerberus wants to fight the Collectors/Reapers. They've shown that they are unreliable and since I never considered Ash a LI but liked her as a Soldier her now questionable judgement she's useless to me.
Your argument is agreeable. When you think about it before LOTSB they were doing it with Liara too. I guess I'd explore the option of getting her back just to see how it's handled, but if they make Sheperd grovel for her forgiveness I may not get through it. Thanks for opening my eyes to that.iakus wrote...
whywhywhywhy wrote...
While I agree the writing sucked and the storyline is horrid in ME2, I can't write it off the VS's (ash in my case) actions so simply. One thing is clear despite the player not being able to actually decide anything meaningful in me2, the point of the scene is that Ash doesn't give you a Chance to explain. Regardless how the scene is handle this is what Ashley's character is now and Sheperd was blindsighted. When he woke up the first thing he did was ask about his team, when Ash first sees him she greets then attacks him. Why Should Sheperd be the one to convince Her she's wrong ? Even if better written and I could convince her I don't know if I would if Traitor is part of her dialog.
Exactly. The entire scene takes on an air of unreality. I can't understand why the VS goes off on Shepard the way he/she does when they already know from firsthand experience what carzy sh...stuff Shepard has done in the past to save the galaxy. The only way I feel it can be resolved in a way that makes any sense at all is if something else is going on that Shepard (and maybe the VS) don't know about. Otherwise, it's simply bad, bad writing.And to all the others saying people who don't like the VS are "butthurt" or wanted her/him to "bow down" you couldn't be further from the truth. It isn't about Sheperd at all it's about the reapers an the VS survivor knows that but goes crazy because Cerberus wants to fight the Collectors/Reapers. They've shown that they are unreliable and since I never considered Ash a LI but liked her as a Soldier her now questionable judgement she's useless to me.
As I've said
I have no problem with the VS not being recruitable
I have no problem with them disapproving of working with Cerberus
I DO have a problem with them freaking out and calling me a traitor.
But at the same time, Bioware's attempt to drive a wedge between Shepard and the VS is so pathetically obvious I am instinctively digging my heels in:D
Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 19 juillet 2011 - 08:06 .
rapscallioness wrote...
@iakus and @nightwing yeah #5 is interesting. especially considering that Cerberus has some "fans" within the Alliance military- industrial complex. Wouldn't be too hard to get to Kaidan. Tim definitely didn't want Kaidan influencing her, making Shep question too much.
Heck, I could even see Tim threatening Shep's life to Kaidan if he didn't back off. Could be revealed in ME3
Modifié par Unpleasant Implications, 19 juillet 2011 - 09:37 .
iakus wrote...
rapscallioness wrote...
Hey, it was our first lover's quarrel. Bound to happen. If BW does it right, it could add some nice depth to the relationship.
I do believe that was the point of the thread. How would you resolve it if you were writing it for BW?
If I were writing, some possibilities could be (roughly in order of seriousness):
1) the "Rumors" the VS heard were truly frightening and horrific. Shepard had been committing terrible acts for Cerberus. Stuff they simply don't want to believe, but Shepard's presence on Horizon somehow made these rumors a lot more credible. In essence, TIM is deliberately driving a wedge between them so Shepard will be all teh more dependant on him. In ME3, Shepard learns of these rumors and is able to put them to rest (maybe)
2) The Alliance (or maybe the Council) for as yet unspecified reasons, have ordered the VS to not make contact with Shepard. Once the initial shock of meeting Shepard wore off, the VS quickly fabricated a reason to get off Horizon asap In essence, the VS blew Shep off on purpose, but does not seriously doubt Shep's loyalty. The reason behind the instructions will be made clear in ME3
3) Shepard was concussed form the praetorian fight. The VS was still dazed from the stasis field. Thus they both said really stupid things they both regret. Both sides enjoy a nervous laugh after having a good sit-down and put it behind them
4) Shepard and /or the VS actually do have a control chip implanted in them at some point. TIM manipulated the conversation (perhaps as a variation of #1) Use of the chip is judicious to preserve cognitive functions. The chip will play a greater role in the conflict against Cerberus in ME3
5) TIM threatened the friends and family of the VS. Back off from Shepard or else. This will come to light as part of the "Cerberus is the enemy...again..." storyline in ME3
6) Whatever cybernetics were holding Shepard's brain together had a temporary short. Hearing, mental processing, and speech centers were all affected. Shep and VS will look back at this later and laugh.
rapscallioness wrote...
@varus praetor. okay, you obviously feel very strongly about it. Are there any other ways besides iakus' #1 idea that you can think of to explain/resolve the Horizon hooha?
Siansonea II wrote...
If I was Ashley, I sure wouldn't trust that Cerberus lapdog Shepard. I mean, faking his own death and then working for Cerberus for two years? W. T. Freakin' F. And then that whole "I was in a coma and Cerberus rebuilt me" song and dance. This isn't some bad sci-fi vid, Shepard, this is real life. I'm not an idiot. You faked your death so you could join Cerberus, and that just tells me that I never knew you at all. Everything about you is shady. So yeah, trust? Out the window.
Wait, this is a thread about the VS restoring trust with SHEPARD? *spittake* Shepard is the one who needs to eat crow here, what with working with CERBERUS and all. Shepard is the one whose "loyalty" is questionable.
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