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Restoring Trust with the VS


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#376
Siansonea

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whywhywhywhy wrote...


Siansonea II wrote...


*snip*
Sincerely, Commander Shepard



Here's the problem with your "theory" letter that I see,  Shepard would never write this letter.  This letter would be written by a operative Shepard or commander Shepard but not 1st human Spectre Shepard.  The first human Spectre Commander Shepard after defeating sovereign knew the Reaper threat was still a problem.  He vowed to the council he was going to find a way to stop them and walked off, he didn't ask permission.  Now from here the bad writing for the game retrofit to accommodate the addition of traditional fps gameplay plagued me2.  The direct reaper threat is gone until they released the arrival dlc, it makes no sense but we have to work with it.


Shepard was sent to finish off the heretic geth I think because of the nature of synthetics they do pose a threat but someone else should have ben tasked to deal with it.  Nevertheless our hero finds himself dying then waking up in the middle of a attack.  Now here's where your view starts to break down, the likelihood of surviving reentry into a planet atmosphere with only a spacesuit is nil.  While unbelievable Cerberus claims of rebuilding you makes more sense then you just surviving.


We have to know they at least did something to him good or bad you have no idea what they did to Shepard or put in him.  So Sheperd bides his time he hears the story of Cerberus bring him back and immediately asks about his crew.  Now while you ignored this, it tells me he doesn't exactly believe them but if anyone can get Shepard back up to speed on what's what is his crew.  Shepard bides his time, why ? Because it's sound strategy to keep your enemies closer, I hated Cerberus and if Shepard hates Cerberus why would he flip out ? A surprise attack is a lot effective then one that kicks open the guarded front door. 


If they are telling the truth about the collectors then you view it as the enemy of my enemies is my friend.  At the moment he has no resources to get it done himself.  Despite all this the first thing my Shepard does is visit the Citadel and the council reinstates my Spectre status.  And that Scanner in the Citadel the one that says Shepard's dead kind of makes Cerberus a little more believable.  And helps us realize that he might not have any control hardware installed in him.  Now Shepard can start planning his attack if we were allowed to attack.  But saving the colonies comes first and the Alliance doesn't seem to be of much help.  Hackett is the only one who's reliable and he doesn't care about Cerberus only getting the job done.


Your letter shows a interesting belief you think because the council(old especially) will help if they knew the human colonies were under attack.  Last time you presented them proof they only made you a spectre to solve the problem and this time when you come to them they reinstate your Spectre status and tell you to stay within the terminus 
systems, that anywhere closer would be "problematic."  The council doesn't care because they don't want to believe in the reaper threat.  They have pieces of sovereign and it's written off as advance geth tech, they don't care or 
don't want to care.  Shepard wouldn't sit around and wait for approval.



Shepard doesn't know which way is up, and he's in the constant company of an organization that has a vested interest in keeping the flow of information under tight control. Why wouldn't Shepard reach out to the Council and the Alliance before jumping into bed with Cerberus? And it's really only the Turian Councilor who has a problem with Shepard, the Asari Councilor almost always sides with Shepard, and the Salarian Councilor is pretty impartial from what I can tell. 


Anderson says that it might be Cerberus behind the attacks on the colony.  Cerberus doesn't get a free pass but 
if they are going to be attacked it shoud be on things they have actually commited.  Ash is sent to verify it and again she failed her mission until Shepard saved her life so she could report back.  Once that happens where were the alliance troops to help hunt the collectors ?  One ship ? No, not 1 ship was sent.


Despite this, on horizon the VS doesn't care about anything that's happen to you only how it affects them.  Then the moment you mention Cerberus that the effective end of the conversation, why ?  Because the VS, especially Ashley cares more about their careers then they do the reaper threat.  If they didn't they would have asked more questions or taken you in custody, because we know Cerberus does nasty experiments. (Maybe Hackett's order prevents this but that also should say something in shepard's favor) 



Your whole argument is very Shepard-centric. The VS has VERY good reason to doubt Cerberus. It is extremely out of character for Cerberus to be doing anything altruistic. Hello, Akuze? Edolus? Admiral Kahoku? Corporal Toombs? And that's just the stuff the VS and Shepard know about at that point. Cerberus aren't misunderstood, they're awful, pure and simple, and the VS deserves an explanation from Shepard, but instead gets a very bland greeting "How've you been? It's been too long." It's silly that Shepard can be so blasé about working with the enemy. The VS is understandably skeptical.


The VS heard rumors the extent of which we don't know but everything that was said to the VS was accepted as truth(Imagine how the alliance record the information) about Shepard.  If Ash can't ask the questions she doesn't deserve the answers, remember the "2 year memory gap" that makes Shepard's requirement for the burden of proof a contradiction.  How can he tell them what he doesn't know ?  And what he does know She/he won't listen to.



"Amnesia" sounds like BS, you have to admit. And "resurrection" sounds like BS on steroids. You expect everyone to believe everything Shepard says, like they can see the words "Player Character Protagonist" tattooed on his forehead. Shepard's just a man (or woman), and when a man or woman I know says something that doesn't make sense, it makes me question them. I don't care who they were two years ago, if they're making preposterous claims, I still need evidence. And when Shepard casually invites the VS to abandon the Alliance and join Shepard, I'm surprised the VS didn't just stare at Shepard in disbelief. Akuze, Edolus, Admiral Kahoku, Corporal Toombs. Join them, Shepard? What are you smoking? 


Something, more then what happened should have happened.  I mean if you romanced them you get a apologetic email...you can't retore the trust so easily after that.



It just boggles my mind that anyone can think that the VS is the bad guy in this situation. All they did was tell the truth as they saw it. They didn't give Shepard a chance to explain? I'm pretty sure they did, and Shepard's responses were along the lines of "herp durp Cerberus not so bad, yo" and the VS is understandably unconvinced. Of course they couldn't arrest Shepard, Horizon is in the Terminus Systems after all, but there's no way the VS is just going to buy Shepard's laundry list of improbabilities "for old times' sake". 

#377
Made Nightwing

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whywhywhywhy wrote...

Takes two to tango, make drinks with mangos and order tickets using fandango.   If the VS isn't responsible enough to be in a relationship with a responsible adult that's all the more reason to move on and forget about them.

I can neither confirm nor deny I haven't bought arrival and never plan to.  Still the alliance always seem to be too little too late.  Especially considering how much Sheperd and his lone ship, limited crew and resources accomplished. 


Well, I would move on, but.....what can I say? I'm not the type of guy to hold grudges over insults. If I did, I doubt my brother and I could have survived fifteen years sharing a bunkbed if we weren't able to forget and move past the arguments. To me, words are only words. Now, if she'd shot me I might have been more resentful.

Arrival is the worst of the best, that's for sure, but it's still damn fun (lighting batarians on fire FTW). And just meeting and talking to Admiral Hackett makes it a must have. I will defend the Alliance by saying that they're spread thin over too much territory. If you saved the Council, Fifth Fleet lost almost half it's striking power, including EIGHT cruisers and who knows how many frigates and fighters. If you let them die, then the Alliance fleets are responsible for protecting most of Citadel space, in addition to the human colonies. Cerberus Daily News reported that Hackett is pushing for a massive expansion of the Navy and the Marine Corps (another Frontier Division is being formed around the time of Arrival), but he's being blocked on the issue of dreadnaught production.

#378
whywhywhywhy

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[quote]Siansonea II wrote...
Shepard doesn't know which way is up, and he's in the constant company of an organization that has a vested interest in keeping the flow of information under tight control. Why wouldn't Shepard reach out to the Council and the Alliance before jumping into bed with Cerberus? [/quote] He woke up in bed with Cerberus.  Given what he knows about Cerberus his best option is to play along until he can figure out what's what.  It's not about contacting the Alliance & Council he does that, when given the sr2 the first thing I do is go see the Anderson.  It resulted in nothing.  Let's review.  He woke up got geared fought to the shuttle.  Miranda gave him the choice to leave with her or stay.  He could have tried to fight his way out but how can he be sure he didn't have a bomb inside his head ?  After all it is Cerebus.  He then talked to TIM and went to verify the threat and was given a ship.  Take the ship to the Citadel and the Council says ok keep to the terminus and continue working with Cerberus the only people willing to do the job.

[quote]Siansonea II wrote...
And it's really only the Turian Councilor who has a problem with Shepard, the Asari Councilor almost always sides with Shepard, and the Salarian Councilor is pretty impartial from what I can tell. [/quote]Doesn't matter who sides with who if they all vote the same.

[quote]Siansonea II wrote...
Your whole argument is very Shepard-centric. [/quote]Because he's the victim.  He died because of a sickly stubborn pilot.  And is paying for it.  Big whoop the VS has missed him/her but they have no idea what he's been through. 

[quote]Siansonea II wrote...
The VS has VERY good reason to doubt Cerberus. [/quote]Agreed.  But no reason to doubt Shepard.  Most of the crew member that was former alliance said they joined Cerberus because of Shepard.  Because the alliance/council tried to sweep everything he did and the reaper threat under the rug.  Why do they find a reason but the VS doesn't ?  The answer they are more concerned with their career.

[quote]Siansonea II wrote...
It is extremely out of character for Cerberus to be doing anything altruistic. Hello, Akuze? Edolus? Admiral Kahoku? Corporal Toombs? And that's just the stuff the VS and Shepard know about at that point. Cerberus aren't misunderstood, they're awful, pure and simple, [/quote]You are under the impression I like Cerberus or I'm some type of Cerberus Sympathizer, I'm not.  I don't like them but if the alliance fleet is "spread thin" and the Council only help is that they reinstate him as a Spectre, what the heck is he suppose to do ?  Shepard has no resources but he does have a clear and present danger in the form of the Reaper's agent, the collectors.  I'll leave the letters to the politicians and go get something done with Shepard.  Save lives and all that jazz.

[quote]Siansonea II wrote...
and the VS deserves an explanation from Shepard, but instead gets a very bland greeting "How've you been? It's been too long." It's silly that Shepard can be so blasé about working with the enemy. The VS is understandably skeptical.[/quote]See blame the victim.  His memory of the last two years doesn't exist the passage of time for him doesn't exist it's extremely natural for him to greet her/him that way.  It's extremely irrational that the VS flips out and doesn't wait for the explaination you say they so rightly deserve. 

For you and the VS you make it all about Cerberus, actions speaks louders then words he was there to save the colony. Period.  The VS reacts as if he was gone or went dark not dead and gone.  This is one simply irrefutable truth about the situation, the VS needed answers to trust Shepard but was unwilling to listen to those answers so he/she could get all of the information. Shepard didn't cater to the VS as if something was wrong he responded from a Mission pov when questioned.  Because in him mind the two years hadn't passed so when he tells the VS he was in acoma/death and Ceberus fixed him up what reason do they have to doubt that ?  They can doubt Cerberus as much as they want to but what reason do they have to not believe what Shepard is saying at that moment ? 

If the VS thought they were in the right they never would have sent the (romanced) email.


[quote]Siansonea II wrote...
"Amnesia" sounds like BS, you have to admit. And "resurrection" sounds like BS on steroids. [/quote]The truth doesn't have to sound true it simply needs to be true.  Would you prefer Shepard to lie while in the company of a notorious organization like Cerberus ?  Just to sound better ?  That would sever everything and cement in the VS's head that Shepard changed destroying any friendship/relationship they had permanently.

[quote]Siansonea II wrote...
You expect everyone to believe everything Shepard says, like they can see the words "Player Character Protagonist" tattooed on his forehead. Shepard's just a man (or woman), and when a man or woman I know says something that doesn't make sense, it makes me question them.[/quote]If the VS doesn't trust the man who took them into battle against the reapers, who they risked their lives for then that speaks against the VS. It's not like Horizon was a event with a stranger.  Shepard doesn't walk up to random people and spout of things about Cerberus and the reapers. 

[quote]Siansonea II wrote...
I don't care who they were two years ago, if they're making preposterous claims, I still need evidence. And when Shepard casually invites the VS to abandon the Alliance and join Shepard, I'm surprised the VS didn't just stare at Shepard in disbelief. Akuze, Edolus, Admiral Kahoku, Corporal Toombs. Join them, Shepard? What are you smoking? [/quote]It's fine to want evidence but don't you see what your doing, Cerberus did those things not Shepard.  This is guilt by association and that's wrong.  Your right they should have asked for evidence, that they didn't is part of the problem.  They didn't even wait or try to have a talk.


[quote]Siansonea II wrote...
It just boggles my mind that anyone can think that the VS is the bad guy in this situation.
All they did was tell the truth as they saw it. They didn't give Shepard a chance to explain? I'm pretty sure they did,
[/quote] Because they are wrong if they weren't why'd they right the email ?  Shepard makes no attempt to contact them afterwards he leaves horizon angry and hurt.  The VS have heard what shepard said but they didn't listen.  I find it rdiculous that you state that the truth was "BS" or "Bs on Steroids" shows how closed minded the VS and you are being on this.  He told them the truth he didn't try to sugar coat it up to get them to listen that's who he is and a real friend would have recognized that he was being himself and trying to save lives.

[quote]Siansonea II wrote...
and Shepard's responses were along the lines of "herp durp Cerberus not so bad, yo" and the VS is understandably unconvinced.[/quote] He never defended Cerberus he explained why his own actions.  And now the VS never rationally hashed things out with Shepard.

[quote]Siansonea II wrote...
Of course they couldn't arrest Shepard, Horizon is in the Terminus Systems after all, but there's no way the VS is just going to buy Shepard's laundry list of improbabilities "for old times' sake". [/quote] Ok let's look at it from a different perspective.  You have in front of you the 1st human spectre, your former superior, savoir of the Citedal and defender of the galaxy who stopped galactic Genocide.  This person is also a close friend or lover formally presumed dead.  Now we have the infamous Cerberous organization in his company who were rumored to be kidnapping humans.  you find that they weren't and he's there fighting to save the humans.  You don't think it's worth using any means necessary to get him away from Cerberus.  Use a honey or a hammer, lie if you must but she should have gotten him away from Cerberus by any means neccessary ?  I think if the VS showed him that she was disturbed out of concern for his safety and tried to get him to go with her and get away from Cerberus he would have.  Instead the VS condemned him for it and looked at him with disgust and even went so far to call him a traitor.

Keep in mind she had to know he went through some trauma if he wasn't picked up by the patrol that rescued the escape pods.

#379
whywhywhywhy

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Made Nightwing wrote...

Well, I would move on, but.....what can I say? I'm not the type of guy to hold grudges over insults.


Made Nightwing wrote...
If I did, I doubt my brother and I could have survived fifteen years sharing a bunkbed if we weren't able to forget and move past the arguments. To me, words are only words. Now, if she'd shot me I might have been more resentful.

IRL I'm the same way at the moment of insult I may distance myself but when apologized to it's definately forgive and forget.  Now as far as Ash funny enough I wouldn't have held a grduge at me if she shot at me instead of saying what she did I would have understood.  I wouldn't of felt she betrayed him.  Given what he knows she knows about Cerberus it's understandable, he'd just have to gauge if she'd still shoot him after he surrendered.  And given the option I would of surrendered.

Made Nightwing wrote...
Arrival is the worst of the best, that's for sure, but it's still damn fun (lighting batarians on fire FTW). And just meeting and talking to Admiral Hackett makes it a must have.

Tempting but I have to pass.

Made Nightwing wrote...
I will defend the Alliance by saying that they're spread thin over too much territory. If you saved the Council, Fifth Fleet lost almost half it's striking power, including EIGHT cruisers and who knows how many frigates and fighters. If you let them die, then the Alliance fleets are responsible for protecting most of Citadel space, in addition to the human colonies. Cerberus Daily News reported that Hackett is pushing for a massive expansion of the Navy and the Marine Corps (another Frontier Division is being formed around the time of Arrival), but he's being blocked on the issue of dreadnaught production.

I like Hackett he's the most reasonable out of all the people they've shown interact with Shepard and in the decisions he makes.

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 28 juillet 2011 - 01:04 .


#380
redbaron76

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@ whywhwywhy

But shepard is a traitor in a way. He is active duty alliance personel that is awol and working with a terrorist organization, there fore he is under suspicion and not to be trusted fully by vs or alliance. That is ok by my shepard becuse it makes game intresting. As to saying all the other former crew members are working fo cerberus is wrong. They are working for shepard because he asked them. They trust shepard. Ashley does not have that option, because you said the truth, about colonies and being dead and brought back to life makes shepard suspicious to VS and alliance and council, because they do not have proof that cerberus has no control implants planetd inside shepard, so they do not trust completely. And as to vs writing the email, it was a way to let shepard know that there was still something between shepard and ashley. So for you to say that vs was wrong is stubborn and inconsiderate of all the facts.

#381
James2912

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I'll forgive Ashley for a  PB and J... 

Modifié par James2912, 28 juillet 2011 - 01:35 .


#382
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Hackett the most reasonable out of everyone Shepard knows? Pfft.

#383
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James2912 wrote…
**************************
*

Can you even say that and not get banned?:o

Edit: Gave it the asterisk treatment for you James. No one knows what you said now.:D

Modifié par jreezy, 28 juillet 2011 - 04:36 .


#384
demonic_cookie

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Takes two to tango

Why don't they both have to explain then? Why is it VS who needs to explain/apologize, and Shep doesn't?

#385
redbaron76

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What i do not understand is why are people sore about horizon. We know that the horizon was created to ensure that vs was stilll present in the background and could not go on the suicide mission. And in the email i was explained that vs still had feelings for shepard. So lets go over some facts.

1. Ashley calls Shepard a traitor
In away Ashley is right. Shepard is active duty line officer in alliance millitary working for a organization that is designated terrorist and suspected of colony abductions because of rumors spread by TIM.
2. Ashley does not trust shepard.
Ashley is right, shepard is brought back to life by cerberus, he could feel obligated and own his life to cerberus. Secondly Cerberus might have planted a control device in shepard when the reconstructed him. Nobody knows if that was done or not. Miranda said there was not but she might have been lying to shepard.
3. Ashley still love shepard and vice versa
Gues that would depend on shepard that you play if you cheated or moved on.
4. Horizon was a loyalty mission for shepard, for him to have some closure before suicide mission.
5 Ashley was under orders from councilor anderson to investigate rumors of cerberus and shepard, when shepard arrived at horizon and repelled collectors it was proven that it was not cerberus responsible but collectors. She also got confirmation that shepard was alive and working with cerberus or for cerberus. When that happened all the emotions she has suppressed for a year come bublyng to surface and no matter how stoic a person is, those emotions will prevent logic from coming out on top. And her using traitor was emotional response, so she can not be really blamed for it. Secondly shepard did not contact her at all.

So the way I see it the whole Horizon thing was shepards fault and TIM faned it with the rumors, and it could have been simply prevented by shepard calling or cintactin Ashley. And thirdly ashley was under direct orders from alliance command not to trust shepard if it was confirmed that he was working with cerberus. Even anderson who is shepard's friend is suspicious of Shepard.

Hell even i am suspicious of my shepard wandering if TIM planted some reaper technology in my shepard when they revived my shepard.

#386
whywhywhywhy

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redbaron76 wrote...

@ whywhwywhy

But shepard is a traitor in a way. He is active duty alliance personel that is awol and working with a terrorist organization, there fore he is under suspicion and not to be trusted fully by vs or alliance.

Hackett and Councilor Anderson don't agree and/or they trust Shepard to know he's doing what he's doing for the right reasons.  Anderson ok they are buddies, but Hackett denied a request to take him into custody.  That's the alliance side of it the other is that he's a Spectre they can't charge him for that if they wanted to.  So it doesn't matter how he fights the collectors.  If the alliance doesn't want to trust him then they need a better info network cause it's all lies from TIM.

redbaron76 wrote...
That is ok by my shepard becuse it makes game intresting. As to saying all the other former crew members are working fo cerberus is wrong. They are working for shepard because he asked them. They trust shepard.

I agree I've said this many times.  But some of them joined when he wasn't around but it was because of Shepard they joined not because they wanted to be part of Cerberus but because Cerberus was the only organization that stepped up to continue Shepard's fight against the Reapers. Ken and Gabby are a example of this.  Though their loyalty is obviously to Shepard not Cerberus they were there before he was.

redbaron76 wrote...
Ashley does not have that option, because you said the truth, about colonies and being dead and brought back to life makes shepard suspicious to VS and alliance and council, because they do not have proof that cerberus has no control implants planetd inside shepard, so they do not trust completely.

Why not ask him to come in an check him out ?

redbaron76 wrote...
And as to vs writing the email, it was a way to let shepard know that there was still something between shepard and ashley. So for you to say that vs was wrong is stubborn and inconsiderate of all the facts.

A email is no way to solve a relationship crisis.  I disagree with you abut this completely, the email was a way for her to ease her conscious over how she acted after most likely finding out more about the situation.

#387
redbaron76

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@ whywhywhy

But that is where i disagree with you. You consider horizon a relationships crisis. It is not. Relation ship crisis occured when shepard died. There was no resolution to that crisis, and if you consider name calling a crisis you need a thicker skin.

#388
Siansonea

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I'm sorry, but I'm not going to just "trust Shepard" hero of this, savior of that, when he says "oh yeah, I've uh, been dead for two years, yeah, that's it, and I uh, was rebuilt by Cerberus by Miracle Science, yeah, that's the ticket..."

Just because the player knows this is "true" and Shepard thinks this is "true" doesn't mean that anyone else should believe it for one second. It's preposterous. Anyone who buys that line is blinded by Artificial Protagonist Trust.

#389
redbaron76

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@ Siansonea II

You said it perfectly. Even my shepard does not trust himself.

#390
trobbins777

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(Horizon)
VS:"What if Cerberus is working with the collectors?"

Shepard: "That's preposterous"

(Later in ME3)

Shepard: "Cerberus are agents of the reapers!"

VS: "Somehow, I told you so, doesn't cover it."

Shepard: "I said reapers not collectors."

VS: "Because that makes it soooooo much better."

Modifié par trobbins777, 28 juillet 2011 - 02:40 .


#391
whywhywhywhy

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redbaron76 wrote...

@ whywhywhy

But that is where i disagree with you. You consider horizon a relationships crisis. It is not. Relation ship crisis occured when shepard died. There was no resolution to that crisis, and if you consider name calling a crisis you need a thicker skin.

How can it be a Crisis if he's dead ?  The relationship at that point in time is over.  It is a relationship crisis Shepard doesn't respond to her email, he's angry and hurt.  His showing up when he should be dead dying and working with a questionable organization he's fought against with her isn't a Relationship(friend or lover) Crisis ? 

As far as the insult thing I refer you to the 'is ashley still your girl' thread.  I've made many posts there that explain my position on that.  We don't have simple name calling friend or lover they are both soldiers.  One soldiers is highly
accomplished and recognized the other is a incompetent who failed her missions.  The incompetent soldier Tells the accomplished one your a traitor.  That's not simple name calling.  It's a mockery of all the sacrifices he's made a a soldier. 

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 28 juillet 2011 - 03:10 .


#392
whywhywhywhy

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Siansonea II wrote...

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to just "trust Shepard" hero of this, savior of that, when he says "oh yeah, I've uh, been dead for two years, yeah, that's it, and I uh, was rebuilt by Cerberus by Miracle Science, yeah, that's the ticket..."

Just because the player knows this is "true" and Shepard thinks this is "true" doesn't mean that anyone else should believe it for one second. It's preposterous. Anyone who buys that line is blinded by Artificial Protagonist Trust.


Then how does the VS ever work with Shepard again ?  Apparently your position is incorrect if they will work together again.  And say what you will but I notice you have a hard time answering questions directly.  You always respond with some rhetoric that the VS is blameless and Shepard a idiot.  Try answering the questions.  I always do.:huh:

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 28 juillet 2011 - 03:15 .


#393
whywhywhywhy

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trobbins777 wrote...

(Horizon)
VS:"What if Cerberus is working with the collectors?"

Shepard: "That's preposterous"

(Later in ME3)

Shepard: "Cerberus are agents of the reapers!"

VS: "Somehow, I told you so, doesn't cover it."

Shepard: "I said reapers not collectors."

VS: "Because that makes it soooooo much better."


Yeah cause they couldn't have been indoctrinated after the fact.  What happens if VS is indoctrinated ?

#394
redbaron76

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Why do you blame VS is the question I say to you. Because she called you a traitor you get upset and do not want to use her on your team. The whole point is for you to repair the trust you share with VS. And after all the real cause of the crisis is not horizon but shepards death. And if you want to take hard line that is fine, but blaming the vs for the incident when she was under orders not to trust shepard is something VS can not be held responsible for. After all we all know that VS is all soldier. But to take your statement into account I think that both VS and shepard need to apologise for horizon, Vs for calling traitor and not trusting shepard, and shepard for not contacting VS and leting them know that he was still alive and for taking cerberus is only onky trying to prevent colonies from disapiarin and only one to do it line.

#395
Siansonea

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whywhywhywhy wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to just "trust Shepard" hero of this, savior of that, when he says "oh yeah, I've uh, been dead for two years, yeah, that's it, and I uh, was rebuilt by Cerberus by Miracle Science, yeah, that's the ticket..."

Just because the player knows this is "true" and Shepard thinks this is "true" doesn't mean that anyone else should believe it for one second. It's preposterous. Anyone who buys that line is blinded by Artificial Protagonist Trust.


Then how does the VS ever work with Shepard again ?  Apparently your position is incorrect if they will work together again.  And say what you will but I notice you have a hard time answering questions directly.  You always respond with some rhetoric that the VS is blameless and Shepard a idiot.  Try answering the questions.  I always do.:huh:


Oh, I can answer the question with one word: Proof. You've been relying on people having faith in Shepard, despite the circumstances. The circumstances look really bad for Shepard. The most likely scenario, given the circumstances, is that Shepard faked his death to work with Cerberus, and has been covertly working with Cerberus for two years. That scenario is a lot more realistic than "I was in a coma for two years. Cerberus rebuilt me." No one with half a brain would think Shepard's story was true, when a very likely other scenario is evident. I would certainly think "I never knew Shepard at all" before I'd believe "preposterous story of resurrection is true", and if Shepard thinks anyone should just "trust" him, that shows poor judgment. It's been two years for the VS, and Shepard KNOWS that. He's not a victim, he's just a ******. He has to know how bad it looks, but rather than offer any actual proof he just goes into hail-fellow-well-met casual chitchat mode. He should have said something like "hey, look at my omnitool data, see these recordings from Freedom's Progress? They show that the Collectors hit another colony, and you just witnessed another Collector attack. Whether it's the Reapers or not, the Collectors have to be stopped. I don't trust Cerberus either, do you think I've forgotten about Akuze, or Admiral Kahoku? I haven't, believe me. Call Tali, she can verify the situation from Freedom's Progress, she was there when we got there." The VS shouldn't have to demand specific answers, they aren't the ones whose situation looks bad. Shepard has some splainin' to do, and doesn't really ever try to offer anything but "you know me, you should trust me." Not good enough. It's just not. Not when you're alive after being "dead" for two years, and not when you're on a Cerberus ship with Cerberus companions, it just looks too bad for "trust" to trump that.

#396
AVPen

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Siansonea II wrote...

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to just "trust Shepard" hero of this, savior of that, when he says "oh yeah, I've uh, been dead for two years, yeah, that's it, and I uh, was rebuilt by Cerberus by Miracle Science, yeah, that's the ticket..."

Soooo.... you don't trust yourself? :pinched:

#397
whywhywhywhy

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AVPen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to just "trust Shepard" hero of this, savior of that, when he says "oh yeah, I've uh, been dead for two years, yeah, that's it, and I uh, was rebuilt by Cerberus by Miracle Science, yeah, that's the ticket..."

Soooo.... you don't trust yourself? :pinched:

yeah seems a bit dysfunctional lol:D

#398
SerraAdvocate

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AVPen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to just "trust Shepard" hero of this, savior of that, when he says "oh yeah, I've uh, been dead for two years, yeah, that's it, and I uh, was rebuilt by Cerberus by Miracle Science, yeah, that's the ticket..."

Soooo.... you don't trust yourself? :pinched:


Not that this is what Siansonea was saying, but my Spacer/Sole Survivor Shepard absolutely doesn't trust himself at that point. You think he's going to take Cerberus' word that they didn't stick him with a control chip or do something else to his brain? He's only truly convinced that he's not been tampered with after he blows up the base.

Modifié par Helm505, 28 juillet 2011 - 03:36 .


#399
demonic_cookie

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whywhywhywhy
I am still waiting for your answer to my question. If "it takes two to tango", why is it that only the VS needs to apologize?

#400
Siansonea

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whywhywhywhy wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to just "trust Shepard" hero of this, savior of that, when he says "oh yeah, I've uh, been dead for two years, yeah, that's it, and I uh, was rebuilt by Cerberus by Miracle Science, yeah, that's the ticket..."

Soooo.... you don't trust yourself? :pinched:

yeah seems a bit dysfunctional lol:D


Au contraire, mon frère. What's dysfunctional is over-identifying with the player character's point of view, to the point where other character's points of view are completely dismissed/devalued.

You aren't really Commander Shepard, you know. You're playing the character, it's not you. And in any case, the VS isn't Playing Mass Effect 2™, the VS is confronting a long-dead friend (maybe) who is working with the enemy.

If you can't put yourself in someone else's shoes, then you're the one who's dysfunctional, pure and simple. I can look at the situation from the VS point of view, because I'm not Shepard. I'm a player of a game. I can see other character's points of view, including characters like Tela Vasir (one of the best adversaries in the entire game), who also calls out Shepard on working with Cerberus. That was an awesome moment. Really, the most unrealistic thing about ME2 (other than Magic Science Resurrection and Puree O' Humans Reaper Chow) is that more people don't call out Shepard for working with Cerberus.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 28 juillet 2011 - 03:43 .