1476 réponses à ce sujet

[paul165]

The idea that Anderson explained everything and suddenly the VS is unflinching loyal again is probably more of a problem to me than the idea of continued mistrust.

After all if you can save their life and still be called a traitor I would love to know what Anderson could tell them that would make everything right with the world.

As for the concept of putting myself in the VS shoe's whilst both I and my Sheoard could; I think my Shepard feels that she is entitled to at least a 'thank you for saving my life' before the yelling started about Cerberus.

The other problem is that post Arrival whilst the VS may be more willing to trust Shepard the Allaince has just put Shepard on trial for trying to save the galaxy and I imagine all but the most purity Sue Shepards are going to be someone between mildly cautious of the Alliance and furiously angry - regardless of Horizon the VS's unfliching devotion to the Alliance may well prove problematic to the more...morally flexible Shepard.

Especially after everything you warned the council and alliance about has come true and they have responded by selling you down the river......again.

[Terastar]

We really don't know much of anything about Mass Effect 3 yet but we can have some fun thinking of possible reasons. We do know that the Normandy is in Alliance hands and is being studied. Maybe the VS is supervising this when the call comes to pick Anderson and Shepard up and get them off world? Shepard boards and they are there. I did hear Anderson say take the Normandy to Shepard in the demos so then the VS is under Shepard's command for the time being.

[Siansonea]

I don't think a debrief from Anderson should "make it all better", but it should give the VS some context, something which was sorely lacking on Horizon. Shepard's very casual response to the appearance of the VS was just weird. And Shepard doesn't give near enough context. "I was in a coma for two years, Cerberus rebuilt me" "human colonies are disappearing, Cerberus is the only ones doing anything about it" is just lame. And getting defensive about not being automatically 100% trusted by the VS doesn't help.

If the situation were reversed, if Ash was missing after the destruction of the Normandy SR1, and Shepard shows up on a random world two years later and sees her there with Cerberus, what is Shepard supposed to think? That Ashley died, and was brought back to life through heretofore unknown Magic Miracle Science? That Ashley has a Very Good Reason for working with these awful AWFUL people? That Shepard should just say "FU Alliance" and switch sides to Cerberus because Ashley says "it'll be like old times"? I have a feeling the same people who are in the "b¡tches be hasslin' me, man" camp would not be so forgiving if the shoe was on the other foot. It's been two years, and the situation does not look good, and Shepard doesn't offer any compelling information to the VS that seems plausible and rational, just a bunch of appeals to their "old times" and "you know me". Not good enough Shepard, you aren't a god, you're just a man/woman, and you're in bed with some very nasty people. You can't just snap your fingers and expect everyone to come running. You're not The Fonz.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 28 juillet 2011 - 10:08 .

[HogarthHughes 3]

I completely understand the VS's reluctance to trust Shepard after he/she pops up again after two years working with a rogue Alliance black ops organization. Still, I am curious as to why the Normandy has Alliance insignia on it in ME3. My Shepard is certainly willing to condemn himself to execution or life imprisonment if it means preventing war with the batarians, but he wouldn't give his ship to the Alliance. He'd rather leave it in the hands of Cerberus, or hell just let Joker have it.  I'd be disappointed if Bioware makes it canon for Shepard to give the ship to the Alliance willingly.  If the Alliance presumes to assault Shepard prior to ME3 and take the ship by force, then they will lose any semblance of loyalty my Shepard ever had to them.

*edit - Guess I'm a bit off-topic.  Anyways if Ashley gets judgmental about Cerberus, then she apparently didn't know my Shepard very well.  He was ruthless from the very start, and is perfectly fine working with a bunch of ruthless jingoists to save hundreds of thousands of lives.  I'd be surprised if Ashley of all people wouldn't be able to stomach that, given her somewhat xenophobic very-nationalist stance.  She may not be quite the Cerberus type, but she is damn close.  Jacob seems to be less pro-human (and less xenophobic) than she is and he was/is willing to work with Cerberus.

Modifié par HogarthHughes 3, 28 juillet 2011 - 10:52 .

[Fata Morgana]

Most of the people on BSN must be internet shut-ins with little to no experience with face-to-face human beings.

That's, uh, that's all I'm going to say on this thread.

[Ryzaki]

Heh. I'd love continued mistrust with the opportunity for Shepard to try to get closer to them or tell them to f*** off. The "look we don't have to trust one another to work together." and the inevitable. "Well..bye." when the VS in a sticky situation will be glorious.

[whywhywhywhy]

Siansonea II wrote...
 Shepard's very casual response to the appearance of the VS was just weird. And Shepard doesn't give near enough context. "I was in a coma for two years, Cerberus rebuilt me" "human colonies are disappearing, Cerberus is the only ones doing anything about it" is just lame. And getting defensive about not being automatically 100% trusted by the VS doesn't help.

I think it's only wierd if you don't consider it from Shepard's point of view.  If the VS isn't saying "What do you mean ?"  "I don't understand." or "What did they do to you?" you know trying to get answers.  I can understand the VS being weary of Shepard being with Cererus.  I could even say not trusting Shepard either but only after sufficiently questioning him.  Given what they have been through he should at least have gotten the benefit of a doubt, if not then what they went through meant nothing to the VS. 

Siansonea II wrote...
If the situation were reversed, if Ash was missing after the destruction of the Normandy SR1, and Shepard shows up on a random world two years later and sees her there with Cerberus, what is Shepard supposed to think? That Ashley died, and was brought back to life through heretofore unknown Magic Miracle Science? That Ashley has a Very Good Reason for working with these awful AWFUL people? That Shepard should just say "FU Alliance" and switch sides to Cerberus because Ashley says "it'll be like old times"?

Though we don't get an option to break away I never considered that Shepard and his friends/allies were working for Cerberus just "funding" his mission.  That said, the Toombs encounter is a pretty good example of how I think Shepard would handle it.  Though the scenarios don't match up exactly as Toombs was hunting and killing the Scientist most options as Sole survivor are very sympathetic to Toombs.   Because Toombs and Shepard served together(as SS) the same way Ash and Shepard have history/Served together.  I actually think he'd hear them out then agree with or disagree with their actions.

Siansonea II wrote...
I have a feeling the same people who are in the "b¡tches be hasslin' me, man" camp would not be so forgiving if the shoe was on the other foot. It's been two years, and the situation does not look good, and Shepard doesn't offer any compelling information to the VS that seems plausible and rational, just a bunch of appeals to their "old times" and "you know me". Not good enough Shepard,

I would think given the experiments Cerberus was discovered to be involved in that Shepard would think that she might be mind controlled.  I'd look for any options to get her away from them and evaluated to be sure no indoctrination, Thorian mind control or any variation of that was affecting her.

Siansonea II wrote...you aren't a god, you're just a man/woman, and you're in bed with some very nasty people. You can't just snap your fingers and expect everyone to come running.  You're not The Fonz.

ayyyyee   *snaps fingers*  Siansonea II and Ash come running. 

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 28 juillet 2011 - 11:32 .

[Terastar]

First of all in the novels Cerberus was NEVER apart of the Alliance. What happened was when the brain camp got shut down because of Kaidan's action Cerberus wanted to piggy back their research on the kids. You find this all out when Gillian is taken to the Grisom(sp?) Academy. Cerberus has people in all of the key areas of Human business. TIM was mainly interested in how the reapers was able to control and communicate with the collectors from millions of light years away. TIM planned on replicating the collectors experiments on humans to try and find a way to stop them. His idea is to sacrifice a few to save humankind. To him ethics and morality had to be put aside in order for mankind to survive. TIM founded Cerberus right after the first contact war. TIM is driven by never having another scene like that and his solution was to found Cerberus and if mankind is always the strongest the best then the first contact war will never happen again.

[Iakus]

Siansonea II wrote...

I don't think a debrief from Anderson should "make it all better", but it should give the VS some context, something which was sorely lacking on Horizon. Shepard's very casual response to the appearance of the VS was just weird. And Shepard doesn't give near enough context. "I was in a coma for two years, Cerberus rebuilt me" "human colonies are disappearing, Cerberus is the only ones doing anything about it" is just lame. And getting defensive about not being automatically 100% trusted by the VS doesn't help.
.

Context is exactly what the situation needed.  And why the Horizon scene simply doesn't work.

What ME3 needs is the option for Shepard to have a sit-down with the VS, the earlier in the game the better.  And the VS needs to explain to Shepard:

What he/she has been doing for two years
What rumors exactly have been circulating about Shepard working for Cerberus
Why these rumors seemed so credible despite any past actions Shepard may have done to indicate a contrary attitude towards Cerberus
What Cerberus itself had been up to for two years

Shepard, in turn needs to talk about

Waking up in a Cerberus facility two years later
Divulge all possible medical records to the VS indicating what "extra parts" are put in, and that there is no control chip.  Including submitting to an Alliance doctor for examination (heck my Shep would do that anyway for his own peace of mind)
Freedom's Progress, encountering Tali and Veetor
Omega and the Collector plague
Submit all records avialable indicating a Collector/Reaper connection
Make as many past squadmates as possible available to the VS to confirm Shep's story, including Joker and (if alive) Chakwas.
Talk about all subsequent adventures to Horizon:  Collector Ship, Omega IV Relay, Shadwo Broker, Arrival

Because the writers have shown that trust evaporates so easily, and past actions are virtually meaningless in building that trust, there can be no secrets between Shep and the VS.  All cards must be laid on the table.  There can be no sign of any deception, of anything being held back.

[Made Nightwing]

@whywhywhywhy. I apologise for mistaking your intentions. I am much better at reading people in real life than I am on the internet. I had kind of a bad day yesterday and (unwisely) chose to vent it on you. Again, I humbly apologise. The thing is, after debating Horizon on a dozen different threads, I realised no opinions were ever going to be changed, because no one has the same Shepard. Therefore, I just wanted this thread to be a bit more lighthearted, rather than devolving into the same opinions/counter-opinions that we've all said before (and will doubtless say again)

But, since this IS providing some good insights on various people's views on Horizon, I'll make a different thread for what I originally was looking for. Be back later.

[paul165]

Iakus said:
>>Waking up in a Cerberus facility two years later
Divulge all possible medical records to the VS indicating what "extra parts" are put in, and that there is no control chip. Including submitting to an Alliance doctor for examination (heck my Shep would do that anyway for his own peace of mind)
Freedom's Progress, encountering Tali and Veetor
Omega and the Collector plague
Submit all records avialable indicating a Collector/Reaper connection
Make as many past squadmates as possible available to the VS to confirm Shep's story, including Joker and (if alive) Chakwas.
Talk about all subsequent adventures to Horizon: Collector Ship, Omega IV Relay, Shadwo Broker, Arrival<<

I'm sorry is the VS your superior now - the council/ alliance has the right and indeed the duty to demand those things the VS does not. Whilst I would happily provide access to the debriefings of missions proving what I have been doing and the links between collectors and reapers I am not going to order squadmates to be made available for the VS - if they want to talk to Garrus I'm sure they could wander along to the gunnery deck on their own time and as for access to medical records......

Whilst some of those are very interesting ideas I feel the approach would perhaps be less antagonistic if it were along the lines of the VS asking EDI for mission debriefings rather than Shepard being forced to act like a defendant in a trial - after all (s)he has already been put on trial for their actions in ME2.

[paul165]

Iakus said:
>>Waking up in a Cerberus facility two years later
Divulge all possible medical records to the VS indicating what "extra parts" are put in, and that there is no control chip. Including submitting to an Alliance doctor for examination (heck my Shep would do that anyway for his own peace of mind)
Freedom's Progress, encountering Tali and Veetor
Omega and the Collector plague
Submit all records avialable indicating a Collector/Reaper connection
Make as many past squadmates as possible available to the VS to confirm Shep's story, including Joker and (if alive) Chakwas.
Talk about all subsequent adventures to Horizon: Collector Ship, Omega IV Relay, Shadwo Broker, Arrival<<

I'm sorry is the VS your superior now - the council/ alliance has the right and indeed the duty to demand those things the VS does not. Whilst I would happily provide access to the debriefings of missions proving what I have been doing and the links between collectors and reapers I am not going to order squadmates to be made available for the VS - if they want to talk to Garrus I'm sure they could wander along to the gunnery deck on their own time and as for access to medical records......

[paul165]

Oops sorry lost part of my post meant to say that whilst I think there were several good ideas and things that need to be addressed a perhaps less antagonistic approach would be to have the VS request mission debriefings from EDI and/or occasionaly talk to trusted squadmates like Garrus / Liara/ Joker/ Dr. Chakwas about what was happening during ME2.

Especially Dr. Chakwas if the VS was still, understandably, still not buying the whole 'I died' thing she could discuss it in general terms with them rather than Shepard having to provide a full medical history - whicch is frankly none of the VS's business.

[whywhywhywhy]

Made Nightwing wrote...

@whywhywhywhy. I apologise for mistaking your intentions. I am much better at reading people in real life than I am on the internet. I had kind of a bad day yesterday and (unwisely) chose to vent it on you. Again, I humbly apologise. The thing is, after debating Horizon on a dozen different threads, I realised no opinions were ever going to be changed, because no one has the same Shepard. Therefore, I just wanted this thread to be a bit more lighthearted, rather than devolving into the same opinions/counter-opinions that we've all said before (and will doubtless say again)

But, since this IS providing some good insights on various people's views on Horizon, I'll make a different thread for what I originally was looking for. Be back later.

Apology accepted.  Don't be too quick to run off you may still find what you were oiginally looking for the thread does seem to be progressing towards your original goal.  Thanks for the apology take a man/woman of character to say they're sorry.  That's not lost on me.

[Siansonea]

paul165 wrote...

Oops sorry lost part of my post meant to say that whilst I think there were several good ideas and things that need to be addressed a perhaps less antagonistic approach would be to have the VS request mission debriefings from EDI and/or occasionaly talk to trusted squadmates like Garrus / Liara/ Joker/ Dr. Chakwas about what was happening during ME2.

Especially Dr. Chakwas if the VS was still, understandably, still not buying the whole 'I died' thing she could discuss it in general terms with them rather than Shepard having to provide a full medical history - whicch is frankly none of the VS's business.

I like the idea of the VS talking to the crew. I think it would make a lot of sense if Kaidan talked to Dr. Chakwas, and if Ashley talked to Joker. I always got the feeling that Kaidan and the doc had a very close friendship, similarly I always felt like Ashley and Joker were pretty tight. Of course, the VS still needs to have a "What the hell, Joker/Chakwas?" moment with them as well, because it's pretty unusual/bad that they're working with Cerberus as well. I would love to see a scene between Kaidan and Dr. Chakwas where she defends her decision to join Cerberus, but that ain't gonna happen, because it's not All About Shepard. That's the problem with a game like this, everything has to artificially revolve around the player character, even if that character is a brick. 

[Iakus]

paul165 wrote...

Iakus said:
>>Waking up in a Cerberus facility two years later
Divulge all possible medical records to the VS indicating what "extra parts" are put in, and that there is no control chip. Including submitting to an Alliance doctor for examination (heck my Shep would do that anyway for his own peace of mind)
Freedom's Progress, encountering Tali and Veetor
Omega and the Collector plague
Submit all records avialable indicating a Collector/Reaper connection
Make as many past squadmates as possible available to the VS to confirm Shep's story, including Joker and (if alive) Chakwas.
Talk about all subsequent adventures to Horizon: Collector Ship, Omega IV Relay, Shadwo Broker, Arrival<<

I'm sorry is the VS your superior now - the council/ alliance has the right and indeed the duty to demand those things the VS does not. Whilst I would happily provide access to the debriefings of missions proving what I have been doing and the links between collectors and reapers I am not going to order squadmates to be made available for the VS - if they want to talk to Garrus I'm sure they could wander along to the gunnery deck on their own time and as for access to medical records......

Whilst some of those are very interesting ideas I feel the approach would perhaps be less antagonistic if it were along the lines of the VS asking EDI for mission debriefings rather than Shepard being forced to act like a defendant in a trial - after all (s)he has already been put on trial for their actions in ME2.

I'm not talking about Shepard being ordered to divulge all that information.  I'm talking about voluntarilly having a sit-down with the VS and clearing the air completely. For the sake of the relationship they had before.

 Bioware, in it's wisdom (or something) decided that the VS was going to be the one former squadmate who goes ballistic at the idea of Shepard working alongside Cerberus.  The lame answers Shepard gave on Horizon were not enough.  So what would have to be enough is to clue the VS in on what Shep's been doing, exactly.  Demonstrate that Shep had a reason for working with Cerberus.  And most of all, that Cerberus is not controlling Shepard.

Notice I also said that the VS will have to clue Shepard in to what's been giong on for the last two years, from teh Alliance side.  Shepard's view of events in the galaxy have largely been from the Cerberus pov.  Now we need Ash/Kaidan's perspective.  Starting with the rumors about SHepard.

[Iakus]

paul165 wrote...

Oops sorry lost part of my post meant to say that whilst I think there were several good ideas and things that need to be addressed a perhaps less antagonistic approach would be to have the VS request mission debriefings from EDI and/or occasionaly talk to trusted squadmates like Garrus / Liara/ Joker/ Dr. Chakwas about what was happening during ME2.

Especially Dr. Chakwas if the VS was still, understandably, still not buying the whole 'I died' thing she could discuss it in general terms with them rather than Shepard having to provide a full medical history - whicch is frankly none of the VS's business.

The talk I mentioned was not meant to be antagonistic, but informative.  Even a heart-to-heart.  Both Shepard and the VS are (I hope) operating on incomplete information.

I've compared it to what sometimes happens on a tv show or movie, (typically a caper film) where you see a major character doing something completely out of character.  A hero stealing something valuable.  A character attacking a loved one.  A member of a team seemingly betraying his compatriots.  Stuff like that.  After this opening scene, it cuts away to big letters saying "48 hours earlier" or something to that extent.  We then see the events leading up to that opening scene play out.  Suddenly, what we saw has context, and we can understand how that character ended up in that position.  Now it's not so out of character, now it makes sense.  What I think we need is something along those lines.

That's in part why I like LOTSB.  IT gives you a glimpse into the life Liara has lived for two years and the kinds of people she's had to deal with.  Suddenly her cold, obsessive personality and willingness to inflict violence makes sense.  Two years of that kind of life would harden anyone.  Now we need something fro Ash/Kaidan.  Since we're not getting any more DLC for ME2, we'll just have to hope for a nice long chat in ME3.  One that doesn't suck.

[LilyasAvalon]

Vega: Ah...boss? What about your orders?
Kaidan: What orders Lieutenant?

This. This line is ADORABLE. I want this in game!

[Siansonea]

iakus wrote...

paul165 wrote...

Oops sorry lost part of my post meant to say that whilst I think there were several good ideas and things that need to be addressed a perhaps less antagonistic approach would be to have the VS request mission debriefings from EDI and/or occasionaly talk to trusted squadmates like Garrus / Liara/ Joker/ Dr. Chakwas about what was happening during ME2.

Especially Dr. Chakwas if the VS was still, understandably, still not buying the whole 'I died' thing she could discuss it in general terms with them rather than Shepard having to provide a full medical history - whicch is frankly none of the VS's business.

The talk I mentioned was not meant to be antagonistic, but informative.  Even a heart-to-heart.  Both Shepard and the VS are (I hope) operating on incomplete information.

I've compared it to what sometimes happens on a tv show or movie, (typically a caper film) where you see a major character doing something completely out of character.  A hero stealing something valuable.  A character attacking a loved one.  A member of a team seemingly betraying his compatriots.  Stuff like that.  After this opening scene, it cuts away to big letters saying "48 hours earlier" or something to that extent.  We then see the events leading up to that opening scene play out.  Suddenly, what we saw has context, and we can understand how that character ended up in that position.  Now it's not so out of character, now it makes sense.  What I think we need is something along those lines.

That's in part why I like LOTSB.  IT gives you a glimpse into the life Liara has lived for two years and the kinds of people she's had to deal with.  Suddenly her cold, obsessive personality and willingness to inflict violence makes sense.  Two years of that kind of life would harden anyone.  Now we need something fro Ash/Kaidan.  Since we're not getting any more DLC for ME2, we'll just have to hope for a nice long chat in ME3.  One that doesn't suck.

Like.

[Terastar]

I am confused on the timeline is anyone else? Mass Effect 2 when Shepard is woke up in the Cerberus station is 2185. Shepard does Collectors mission, LOTSB mission and does Arrival. This spans through 2186. Now Mass Effect 3 trial of Shepard is suppose to take place 6 months - 1 year after game 2 and dlc's ends. What did Shepard do during this time span????

[ladyvader]

Terastar wrote...

I am confused on the timeline is anyone else? Mass Effect 2 when Shepard is woke up in the Cerberus station is 2185. Shepard does Collectors mission, LOTSB mission and does Arrival. This spans through 2186. Now Mass Effect 3 trial of Shepard is suppose to take place 6 months - 1 year after game 2 and dlc's ends. What did Shepard do during this time span????

Actually from my understanding the 6-12 months is after the SM.  Not the DLCs.  Shadow Broker took place after the SM and so did Arrival.  ME3 is 2 months after Arrival.  If I understood what was said during the many demos I watched during E3.

[ubermensch007]

Made Nightwing, I'll answer your question in your OP as best i can.But before all that, I have to do as whywhywhywhy stated on the previous page.

I responded to those sharing views I disagreed with or agreed with, if you truly wanted suggestions to fix something you have to listen to what people consider the problem.  Otherwise you'd resolve nothing,

How do you Restore Trust with the VS? I have to add Admiral Anderson to this equation as well...One of my BIGGEST problems with both of these characters in Mass Effect 2.Has to do with something that they both say to Shepard.Its what I like to call, "Captain Obvious Vs. Commander Shepard" in ME 2 moments...

Shepard & Ashley's Reunion

Ashley: I went to Anderson but he wouldn't talk. But there were rumors that you weren't dead.Worse; that you were working for the enemy.

Shepard (I don't work for Cerberus) Cerberus and I want the same things --to save our colonies.That doesn't mean I answer to them.

Ashley: Do you really believe that? Or is that just what Cerberus wants you to think? I'd like to believe you Shepard.But I don't trust Cerberus.And it worries me that you do.What did they do to you? What if there behind it? What if they're working with the Collectors?

Garrus: Damn it Williams.Your so focused on Cerberus that your ignoring the real threat.

Now in Ashley's defense.Perhaps in her own way, she felt as though she were trying to reason with Shepard here.But as they say,"It's not what you say.Its how you say it." Not only does Ash attack Shep's honor and integrity, by calling him a traitor.She goes waaaaaaaay beyond questioning his judgement (for working with Cerberus) which is completly fair and reasonable... She INSULTS his Intelligence.

After just going down a Litany  List of all of Shepard's great accolades: "Commander Shepard.Captain of the Normandy.The first human Spectre.Savior of the Citadel.She even throws in some personal commentary for good measure. " Your in the presence of a god. DeLann.Back from the dead."

That Ash could think for a moment that someone as sophisticated, accomplished and expeirenced in moving through all social circles as Commander Shepard is.(She even is in awe of Shepard after the Feros mission.For how he manages to talk the ExoGeni Represenatives to work with the colonist.) Would have the rug pulled over his eyes by an organization that he had encountered so many times previously.Is just -- beyond the pale...

You know that old saying, "There's a sucker born every minute" (is a phrase often credited to P. T. Barnum (1810–1891), an American showman. ) It is generally taken to mean that there will always be many gullible people in the world.

This is 'now" what Ash seems to think Shepard is! And I commend Shepard for how he conducts himself in her presence.Even though what she is saying is totally incendiary.He does not become argumentive with her.He doesn't puff himself up with (justifiable) pride and be like, "Ash... I was born at night.Not last night.Who the hell do you think your talking too?! Some idealistic naieve little boy -- who suffers from  Asperger's Syndrome or something!? Do you really think -- that it has not occured to me.That Cerberus could be deceiving me?"

And now we come to Captain Obvious # 2 -- Anderson.As much as some feel that the relationship betwixt Shep and the VS was deteriorated in ME 2.BioWare made this possible as well for Shepard and Andersons bromance.

Shepard: I thought we were friends.I never expected you to go behind my back!

Anderson: We didn't know about you at the time -- And I wouldn't have told you if I did! What if the Illusive Man was manipulating you? Lying to you?

Ah Anderson...As accomplished as he is.Shepard is his better.Shepard has succeeced, where Anderson has failed.To understand fully; what cuts deep about what Ashley & Anderson say to Shepard.We must know who and what Shepard is first and foremost.A COMMANDING OFFICER...Let's look at what that means for a minute.

The commanding officer (CO) is the officer in command of a military unit.Typically, the commanding officer has ultimate authority over the unit, and is usually given wide latitude to run the unit as he sees fit,
within the bounds of military law. In this respect, commanding officers have significant responsibilities
(for example, the use of force, finances, equipment, the Geneva Conventions), duties (to higher authority, mission effectiveness, duty of care to personnel) and powers (for example, discipline and punishment of personnel within certain limits of military law).

A CO by defintion is someone who is entrusted to make judgement calls an delgate responsibilities.What Ashley and Anderson do to Shepard,.What they say to Commander Shepard is nothing less -- Than question his fitness to be in command.

Modifié par ubermensch007, 30 juillet 2011 - 07:21 .

[ubermensch007]

Goddamn It...

I didn't mean to Double Post

Modifié par ubermensch007, 30 juillet 2011 - 07:25 .

[Siansonea]

ubermensch007 wrote...

Made Nightwing, I'll answer your question in your OP as best i can.But before all that, I have to do as whywhywhywhy stated on the previous page.

I responded to those sharing views I disagreed with or agreed with, if you truly wanted suggestions to fix something you have to listen to what people consider the problem.  Otherwise you'd resolve nothing,

How do you Restore Trust with the VS? I have to add Admiral Anderson to this equation as well...One of my BIGGEST problems with both of these characters in Mass Effect 2.Has to do with something that they both say to Shepard.Its what I like to call, "Captain Obvious Vs. Commander Shepard" in ME 2 moments...

Shepard & Ashley's Reunion

Ashley: I went to Anderson but he wouldn't talk. But there were rumors that you weren't dead.Worse; that you were working for the enemy.

Shepard (I don't work for Cerberus) Cerberus and I want the same things --to save our colonies.That doesn't mean I answer to them.

Ashley: Do you really believe that? Or is that just what Cerberus wants you to think? I'd like to believe you Shepard.But I don't trust Cerberus.And it worries me that you do.What did they do to you? What if there behind it? What if they're working with the Collectors?

Garrus: Damn it Williams.Your so focused on Cerberus that your ignoring the real threat.

Now in Ashley's defense.Perhaps in her own way, she felt as though she were trying to reason with Shepard here.But as they say,"It's not what you say.Its how you say it." Not only does Ash attack Shep's honor and integrity, by calling him a traitor.She goes waaaaaaaay beyond questioning his judgement (for working with Cerberus) which is completly fair and reasonable... She INSULTS his Intelligence.

After just going down a Litany  List of all of Shepard's great accolades: "Commander Shepard.Captain of the Normandy.The first human Spectre.Savior of the Citadel.She even throws in some personal commentary for good measure. " Your in the presence of a god. DeLann.Back from the dead."

That Ash could think for a moment that someone as sophisticated, accomplished and expeirenced in moving through all social circles as Commander Shepard is.(She even is in awe of Shepard after the Feros mission.For how he manages to talk the ExoGeni Represenatives to work with the colonist.) Would have the rug pulled over his eyes by an organization that he had encountered so many times previously.Is just -- beyond the pale...

You know that old saying, "There's a sucker born every minute" (is a phrase often credited to P. T. Barnum (1810–1891), an American showman. ) It is generally taken to mean that there will always be many gullible people in the world.

This is 'now" what Ash seems to think Shepard is! And I commend Shepard for how he conducts himself in her presence.Even though what she is saying is totally incendiary.He does not become argumentive with her.He doesn't puff himself up with (justifiable) pride and be like, "Ash... I was born at night.Not last night.Who the hell do you think your talking too?! Some idealistic naieve little boy -- who suffers from  Asperger's Syndrome or something!? Do you really think -- that it has not occured to me.That Cerberus could be deceiving me?"

And now we come to Captain Obvious # 2 -- Anderson.As much as some feel that the relationship betwixt Shep and the VS was deteriorated in ME 2.BioWare made this possible as well for Shepard and Andersons bromance.

Shepard: I thought we were friends.I never expected you to go behind my back!

Anderson: We didn't know about you at the time -- And I wouldn't have told you if I did! What if the Illusive Man was manipulating you? Lying to you?

Ah Anderson...As accomplished as he is.Shepard is his better.Shepard has succeeced, where Anderson has failed.To understand fully; what cuts deep about what Ashley & Anderson say to Shepard.We must know who and what Shepard is first and foremost.A COMMANDING OFFICER...Let's look at what that means for a minute.

The commanding officer (CO) is the officer in command of a military unit.Typically, the commanding officer has ultimate authority over the unit, and is usually given wide latitude to run the unit as he sees fit,
within the bounds of military law. In this respect, commanding officers have significant responsibilities
(for example, the use of force, finances, equipment, the Geneva Conventions), duties (to higher authority, mission effectiveness, duty of care to personnel) and powers (for example, discipline and punishment of personnel within certain limits of military law).

A CO by defintion is someone who is entrusted to make judgement calls an delgate responsibilities.What Ashley and Anderson do to Shepard,.What they say to Commander Shepard is nothing less -- Than question his fitness to be in command.

Looks like another case of Playercharacteritis to me, and it looks terminal. Yeah yeah, Shepard is Teh Awesome. Everyone should bow down before Shepard, and praise Him.

Never mind that Shepard is actually a complete ******. Shepard is constantly being fooled, manipulated, and lied to. Mainly by the Illusive Man. But yeah, you're the one who's really calling the shots Shepard. Sure you are.

And what's with all the hotlinks? It's like a Wikipedia page up in here all of a sudden.