1476 réponses à ce sujet

[Sheppard-Commander]

Malanek999 wrote...

Sheppard-Commander wrote...
I seem to remember dialogue from Shepard in ME2 where he tells Liara that Cerberus lured the Collectors to Horizon. So...those accusations really werent all that far off base.

Well actually the Collectors targetted Horizon specifically because the VS was there. Cerberus deliberately released intel which the collectors used to discover that. But Cerberus was not doing the abduction and was actually trying to stop it.

Well actually the VS accuses you of being manipulated by Cerberus. Which was obviously an accurate accusation.

[darthnick427]

m00nsh1ne wrote...

The whole trust thing will get resolved the first conversation you have with the VS. They would want something like that out of the way early so they can focus on more important things. And besides unless you were a major a-hole towards them on Horizon it didn't end as badly as some people make it out to be. And a lot of the tension was created from the shock of seeing somebody that the VS watch die and suddenly reappear. Nobody in their right mind can handle that like it was the most normal thing in the world.

Except for Garrus!.....and Tali.....and Wrex......and Anderson.....and even Conrad Verner.....WTF VS?!

[Malanek]

Sheppard-Commander wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Sheppard-Commander wrote...
I seem to remember dialogue from Shepard in ME2 where he tells Liara that Cerberus lured the Collectors to Horizon. So...those accusations really werent all that far off base.

Well actually the Collectors targetted Horizon specifically because the VS was there. Cerberus deliberately released intel which the collectors used to discover that. But Cerberus was not doing the abduction and was actually trying to stop it.

Well actually the VS accuses you of being manipulated by Cerberus. Which was obviously an accurate accusation.

Amongst other accusations. Also the implication with what you wrote implies that Shepard was being manipulated by Cerberus for nefarious purposes. Give me one example of how that was the case.

[marshalleck]

Malanek999 wrote...

Sheppard-Commander wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Sheppard-Commander wrote...
I seem to remember dialogue from Shepard in ME2 where he tells Liara that Cerberus lured the Collectors to Horizon. So...those accusations really werent all that far off base.

Well actually the Collectors targetted Horizon specifically because the VS was there. Cerberus deliberately released intel which the collectors used to discover that. But Cerberus was not doing the abduction and was actually trying to stop it.

Well actually the VS accuses you of being manipulated by Cerberus. Which was obviously an accurate accusation.

Amongst other accusations. Also the implication with what you wrote implies that Shepard was being manipulated by Cerberus for nefarious purposes. Give me one example of how that was the case.

TIM uses Shepard as Collector bait repeatedly. 

[Sheppard-Commander]

Malanek999 wrote...

Sheppard-Commander wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Sheppard-Commander wrote...
I seem to remember dialogue from Shepard in ME2 where he tells Liara that Cerberus lured the Collectors to Horizon. So...those accusations really werent all that far off base.

Well actually the Collectors targetted Horizon specifically because the VS was there. Cerberus deliberately released intel which the collectors used to discover that. But Cerberus was not doing the abduction and was actually trying to stop it.

Well actually the VS accuses you of being manipulated by Cerberus. Which was obviously an accurate accusation.

Amongst other accusations. Also the implication with what you wrote implies that Shepard was being manipulated by Cerberus for nefarious purposes. Give me one example of how that was the case.

That was the main accusation. "What if Cerberus is manipulating you? What if they are behind the attack?" (paraphrasing here of course) both of which turned out to be the case, which you said was not. Manipulation does not imply good or bad, its simply an action. You can just as easily be manipulated into doing good things.

[Malanek]

marshalleck wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Sheppard-Commander wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Sheppard-Commander wrote...
I seem to remember dialogue from Shepard in ME2 where he tells Liara that Cerberus lured the Collectors to Horizon. So...those accusations really werent all that far off base.

Well actually the Collectors targetted Horizon specifically because the VS was there. Cerberus deliberately released intel which the collectors used to discover that. But Cerberus was not doing the abduction and was actually trying to stop it.

Well actually the VS accuses you of being manipulated by Cerberus. Which was obviously an accurate accusation.

Amongst other accusations. Also the implication with what you wrote implies that Shepard was being manipulated by Cerberus for nefarious purposes. Give me one example of how that was the case.

TIM uses Shepard as Collector bait repeatedly. 

To stop the collectors. I should however rephrase that slightly.

The implication is that Shepard was being manipulated by Cerberus, leading Shepard to commit nefarious actions.

[JamieCOTC]

OP is good, very reminiscent of the gatekeeper line in the "Thor" movie. I'd like a little bit of tension to linger between the two, not for the whole game, but longer than the first conversation. VS called Shepard a traitor. That cuts pretty deep.

[Malanek]

Sheppard-Commander wrote...
That was the main accusation. "What if Cerberus is manipulating you? What if they are behind the attack?" (paraphrasing here of course) both of which turned out to be the case, which you said was not. Manipulation does not imply good or bad, its simply an action. You can just as easily be manipulated into doing good things.

That's simply not true. A complete load of rubbish. The collectors abducted colonists on a dozen planets. How was Cerbnberus responsible for that? The collectors were behind the attackssssss. Plural is important, that is what the VS accused shep and cerberus of. Which is patently false.

[Made Nightwing]

JamieCOTC wrote...

OP is good, very reminiscent of the gatekeeper line in the "Thor" movie. I'd like a little bit of tension to linger between the two, not for the whole game, but longer than the first conversation. VS called Shepard a traitor. That cuts pretty deep.

Correct, thus there needs to be a moment of catharsis. The Kaidan one would not only put Kaidan up to a suitable level of cool for new players, but give Vega a level in badass for importers.

[CrazyRah]

JamieCOTC wrote...

OP is good, very reminiscent of the gatekeeper line in the "Thor" movie. I'd like a little bit of tension to linger between the two, not for the whole game, but longer than the first conversation. VS called Shepard a traitor. That cuts pretty deep.

This is pretty much how i would like it to be between them

[Sheppard-Commander]

Malanek999 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Sheppard-Commander wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Sheppard-Commander wrote...
I seem to remember dialogue from Shepard in ME2 where he tells Liara that Cerberus lured the Collectors to Horizon. So...those accusations really werent all that far off base.

Well actually the Collectors targetted Horizon specifically because the VS was there. Cerberus deliberately released intel which the collectors used to discover that. But Cerberus was not doing the abduction and was actually trying to stop it.

Well actually the VS accuses you of being manipulated by Cerberus. Which was obviously an accurate accusation.

Amongst other accusations. Also the implication with what you wrote implies that Shepard was being manipulated by Cerberus for nefarious purposes. Give me one example of how that was the case.

TIM uses Shepard as Collector bait repeatedly. 

To stop the collectors. I should however rephrase that slightly.

The implication is that Shepard was being manipulated by Cerberus, leading Shepard to commit nefarious actions.

Do we know the overall motivations of TIM/Cerberus? Do we know why/when they actually became agents of the Reapers? No. But we know they will be working for them in ME3...do you really think that the actions Shepard took on behalf of Cerberus will not come back to bite you?

What is actually implicated, is that Shepard may unwittingly be a pawn for Cerberus. Which seems highly likely to have happened.

[Malanek]

Sheppard-Commander wrote...
Do we know the overall motivations of TIM/Cerberus? Do we know why/when they actually became agents of the Reapers? No. But we know they will be working for them in ME3...do you really think that the actions Shepard took on behalf of Cerberus will not come back to bite you?

What is actually implicated, is that Shepard may unwittingly be a pawn for Cerberus. Which seems highly likely to have happened.

No, we don't know their ultimate motivations. However I am struggling to see how destroying the human reaper and stopping the abductions was a bad thing.

Rather than being manipulated by Cerberus, in reality Shepard used them for money, ship, crew, intel while still calling all the shots.

Modifié par Malanek999, 07 juillet 2011 - 01:15 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Malanek999 wrote...

Sheppard-Commander wrote...
That was the main accusation. "What if Cerberus is manipulating you? What if they are behind the attack?" (paraphrasing here of course) both of which turned out to be the case, which you said was not. Manipulation does not imply good or bad, its simply an action. You can just as easily be manipulated into doing good things.

That's simply not true. A complete load of rubbish. The collectors abducted colonists on a dozen planets. How was Cerbnberus responsible for that? The collectors were behind the attackssssss. Plural is important, that is what the VS accused shep and cerberus of. Which is patently false.

TIM lured the collectors to Horrizon,  so,  they were in fact behind that particular attack.

[Sheppard-Commander]

Malanek999 wrote...

Sheppard-Commander wrote...
Do we know the overall motivations of TIM/Cerberus? Do we know why/when they actually became agents of the Reapers? No. But we know they will be working for them in ME3...do you really think that the actions Shepard took on behalf of Cerberus will not come back to bite you?

What is actually implicated, is that Shepard may unwittingly be a pawn for Cerberus. Which seems highly likely to have happened.

No, we don't know their ultimate motivations. However I am struggling to see how destroying the human reaper and stopping the abductions was a bad thing.

Cerberus ends up studying the Collector base/wreckage after you give it to them/destroy it. Would they have had that opportunity if they werent employing the Human Howitzer himself? Did they learn/gain anything indirectly from Shepard's actions?

Just because you cant predict the future, doesnt mean you should blind yourself to the potential outcomes of it.

Malanek999 wrote...
Rather than being manipulated by Cerberus, in reality Shepard used them
for money, ship, crew, intel while still calling all the shots.

And that whole entire time you relied on TIM himself. TIM's actual motivation likely was beyond just stopping the Collector attacks, if you havent learned that the man is a master manipulator/opportunist by now I dont think that point is going to get across to you.

Modifié par Sheppard-Commander, 07 juillet 2011 - 01:23 .

[Malanek]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Sheppard-Commander wrote...
That was the main accusation. "What if Cerberus is manipulating you? What if they are behind the attack?" (paraphrasing here of course) both of which turned out to be the case, which you said was not. Manipulation does not imply good or bad, its simply an action. You can just as easily be manipulated into doing good things.

That's simply not true. A complete load of rubbish. The collectors abducted colonists on a dozen planets. How was Cerbnberus responsible for that? The collectors were behind the attackssssss. Plural is important, that is what the VS accused shep and cerberus of. Which is patently false.

TIM lured the collectors to Horrizon,  so,  they were in fact behind that particular attack.

I've already gone over this. It's just a case of reasonable cause. TIM deliberately dropped intel about the VS being on horizon. That is all. The alliance put the VS on horizon, was that attack the alliances fault? The collectors were only interested in the VS because of their association with Shepard which originated when Shep offed Sovereign. Was destroying Sovereign bad because it led to the collector abductions? If TIM hadn't leaked the intel the collectors would have attacked a different colony that Shepard would not have been able to save. TIM was partly responsible for stopping the attacks. Fault for the collector attacks lie 100% with the reapers.

[Malanek]

Sheppard-Commander wrote...
Just because you cant predict the future, doesnt mean you should blind yourself to the potential outcomes of it.

Nor should you jump to completely unfounded conclusions. Are you saying it would have been a better thing to let the collectors carry out their reaper construction?

[Made Nightwing]

Please don't argue about TIM's plans. There are other threads and apps for that

[AngelicMachinery]

Malanek999 wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Sheppard-Commander wrote...
That was the main accusation. "What if Cerberus is manipulating you? What if they are behind the attack?" (paraphrasing here of course) both of which turned out to be the case, which you said was not. Manipulation does not imply good or bad, its simply an action. You can just as easily be manipulated into doing good things.

That's simply not true. A complete load of rubbish. The collectors abducted colonists on a dozen planets. How was Cerbnberus responsible for that? The collectors were behind the attackssssss. Plural is important, that is what the VS accused shep and cerberus of. Which is patently false.

TIM lured the collectors to Horrizon,  so,  they were in fact behind that particular attack.

I've already gone over this. It's just a case of reasonable cause. TIM deliberately dropped intel about the VS being on horizon. That is all. The alliance put the VS on horizon, was that attack the alliances fault? The collectors were only interested in the VS because of their association with Shepard which originated when Shep offed Sovereign. Was destroying Sovereign bad because it led to the collector abductions? If TIM hadn't leaked the intel the collectors would have attacked a different colony that Shepard would not have been able to save. TIM was partly responsible for stopping the attacks. Fault for the collector attacks lie 100% with the reapers.

I get it,  you totally believe the end justifies the means.  That's great,  and you know what you may even be right but TIM is partially responcible for that attack on Horizon and that's GREAT fodder for anyone who's against Cerberus.  It may be true that he was responsible for Victory over the collectors the colonist smoothies from Horizon though are on TIM's hand's no matter how you want to justify it.  

[Malanek]

AngelicMachinery wrote...
I get it,  you totally believe the end justifies the means.  That's great,  and you know what you may even be right but TIM is partially responcible for that attack on Horizon and that's GREAT fodder for anyone who's against Cerberus.  It may be true that he was responsible for Victory over the collectors the colonist smoothies from Horizon though are on TIM's hand's no matter how you want to justify it.  

No, you don't get it at all. I never said that and I don't believe it. I said the VS made false accusations and then others said they didn't. The VS accused Cerberus from being behind the attacks. That was obviously a false accusation and I am not sure why people have such a hard time acknowledging what seems an incredibly obvious fact to me.

[Sheppard-Commander]

Malanek999 wrote...

Sheppard-Commander wrote...
Just because you cant predict the future, doesnt mean you should blind yourself to the potential outcomes of it.

Nor should you jump to completely unfounded conclusions. Are you saying it would have been a better thing to let the collectors carry out their reaper construction?

Hello? Pot? Hey, its Malanek999. Just wanted to say, dude you are so black. It's not even funny.

You spent the whole game assissting Cerberus, and now they are working for the enemy...yet you assume that that whole time you where really the one pulling the strings when you where entirely reliant on TIM to piece together the picture for you. A picture that could have easily been manipulated to show you what he wanted you to see and nothing more, provided the proper motivation was in place.

Malanek999 wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...
I
get it,  you totally believe the end justifies the means.  That's
great,  and you know what you may even be right but TIM is partially
responcible for that attack on Horizon and that's GREAT fodder for
anyone who's against Cerberus.  It may be true that he was responsible
for Victory over the collectors the colonist smoothies from Horizon
though are on TIM's hand's no matter how you want to justify it.  

No,
you don't get it at all. I never said that and I don't believe it. I
said the VS made false accusations and then others said they didn't. The
VS accused Cerberus from being behind the attacks. That was
obviously a false accusation and I am not sure why people have such a
hard time acknowledging what seems an incredibly obvious fact to
me.

Except that the accusation that Cerberus was behind the attack on Horizon was true, not false.

Close your eyes and plug your ears all you like. Shepard himself says otherwise, so your opinion of the matter is utterly incorrect.

Modifié par Sheppard-Commander, 07 juillet 2011 - 01:31 .

[Malanek]

Sheppard-Commander wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Sheppard-Commander wrote...
Just because you cant predict the future, doesnt mean you should blind yourself to the potential outcomes of it.

Nor should you jump to completely unfounded conclusions. Are you saying it would have been a better thing to let the collectors carry out their reaper construction?

Hello? Pot? Hey, its Malanek999. Just wanted to say, dude you are so black. It's not even funny.

You spent the whole game assissting Cerberus, and now they are working for the enemy...yet you assume that that whole time you where really the one pulling the strings when you where entirely reliant on TIM to piece together the picture for you. A picture that could have easily been manipulated to show you what he wanted you to see and nothing more, provided the proper motivation was in place.

How was destroying the collector base assisting cerberus? How was uploading compromising information about them to the alliance assisting cerberus? How was shutting down project overlord and freeing archer assisting cerberus? How was taking control of their top of the line ship assisting cerberus?

Again, are you actually saying it would have been better to do nothing and leave the collectors to construct a reaper? Answer that question.

Sheppard-Commander wrote...
Except that the accusation that Cerberus was behind the attack on Horizon was true, not false.

Even if that is true and it was in fact Cerberus who were behind that particular attack (which they weren't but I really can't add more than has already been said) that wasn't even the accusation. The VS accused Cerberus of being behind the attacks that had already taken place. Explain how that accusation is true.

Modifié par Malanek999, 07 juillet 2011 - 01:40 .

[AquamanOS]

They were pulling your strings. Or rather attempted too. Since everytime the Omega 4 relay is brought up TIM gushes about what wonders you'll find, and needs to be reminded that they're trying to destroy the Collectors, obviously TIM's true goal is to find tech to put Cerberus on top. All of the stuff he gives you is ultimately to advance that, with the abduction stopping being a secondary priority at best.

Whether it works is up to you. You blow the base, and TIM's plan totally failed. You didn't? He just played you.

[rapscallioness]

JamieCOTC wrote...

OP is good, very reminiscent of the gatekeeper line in the "Thor" movie. I'd like a little bit of tension to linger between the two, not for the whole game, but longer than the first conversation. VS called Shepard a traitor. That cuts pretty deep.

^This.

And nice thread Nightwing.

I was disgruntled after that Horizon hooha. First off, the way it was written, my Shep had no lines even worth saying. Kaidan didn't want to hear it anyway, and was completely prepared to believe all the circumstantial stuff w/out even hearing her side of the story.

I'm not saying he should have hopped on the Normandy and taken off w/Cerberus. But he should have given her the benefit of the doubt, or maybe just stfu and listened. He's got his mind made up.

I know, poor Kaidan was in shock......yeah, well I bet Shep was pretty shocked , too, to wake up from the dead and be working for Cerberus.

So, yes, a lil tension...but laced through the first parts of the game, or so in their convo.s. Not all in one big convo.

And last thing I want is for them to be like it's all good..no biggie, bro. Some good romantic and sexual tension is the heart of a successful romance plot.

PLz BW, gimme more than 2 options that say either..."you had your chance and blew it!" or, "It's okay, honey..derp"

At least a "Lemme think about it..and we'll see" type of option.

Basically Kaidan pulled a Jack.."F. U...but thnx for asking."  He's so worried she's being manipulated by Cerberus and in dangerous waters....but then he leaves..saying F.U...and be careful.

[Raiil]

I like the idea. Some people RP that they can't fully trust the VS (for whatever reason, one of my Sheps is like that) and for others, it's a nice giggle and a reminder that all is not lost, you've got your badass crew at your back. I think the OP's suggestion was flexible enough that it could be read in multiple ways.