1476 réponses à ce sujet

[yoshibb]

AVPen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

You can bash the Alliance until the cows come home, and you might bring up some good points, but it doesn't change the fact that the VS is an Alliance operative, and they are acting in accordance with their duty. Shepard was once with the Alliance, was once with the Council, but now Shepard is with Cerberus. Freakin' Cerberus. And everyone around here acts like that's perfectly okay, that it's no big deal. You people have a short memory.

You mean like how Ashley/Kaidan were performing their "duty to the Alliance" when they went along with Shepard and openly mutinied against the Alliance and Council after they locked the Normandy down and refused to allow Shepard to travel to Ilos to stop Saren and Soveriegn? 

That was more against the council then the alliance. The alliance were the only ones to show up to fight Sovereign, so I'm thinking they were on Shepard's side with this one. 

[Siansonea]

AVPen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

You can bash the Alliance until the cows come home, and you might bring up some good points, but it doesn't change the fact that the VS is an Alliance operative, and they are acting in accordance with their duty. Shepard was once with the Alliance, was once with the Council, but now Shepard is with Cerberus. Freakin' Cerberus. And everyone around here acts like that's perfectly okay, that it's no big deal. You people have a short memory.

You mean like how Ashley/Kaidan were performing their "duty to the Alliance" when they openly mutinied against the Alliance and Council along with Shepard after the Council/Alliance locked the Normandy down and refused to allow Shepard to travel to Ilos to stop Saren and Soveriegn? 

Oh darn, you got me there, except...THAT was all Captain Anderson's idea. And it was clear that there was no other option. The VS knew what was going on.

Shepard showing up on Horizon with Cerberus is not a parallel situation at all. It's been two years, two years of silence, two years of thinking Shepard was dead. But there's Shepard, alive as can be, claiming that he was in a coma for two years. That just doesn't sound believable to me if I'm the VS. And no matter what, CERBERUS is a whole order of magnitude worse than anything the VS did with Shepard in the first game. It just doesn't add up, and Shepard should see that. But instead, everyone knee-jerk reacts to Ashley/Kaidan's "tone", and doesn't actually listen to what they have to say. Kids today. <_<

Seriously, do you guys not remember what Cerberus did in the first game?  "I don't trust Cerberus" is a pretty mild reaction, considering the atrocities Cerberus has committed.

[Seboist]

yoshibb wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

You can bash the Alliance until the cows come home, and you might bring up some good points, but it doesn't change the fact that the VS is an Alliance operative, and they are acting in accordance with their duty. Shepard was once with the Alliance, was once with the Council, but now Shepard is with Cerberus. Freakin' Cerberus. And everyone around here acts like that's perfectly okay, that it's no big deal. You people have a short memory.

You mean like how Ashley/Kaidan were performing their "duty to the Alliance" when they went along with Shepard and openly mutinied against the Alliance and Council after they locked the Normandy down and refused to allow Shepard to travel to Ilos to stop Saren and Soveriegn? 

That was more against the council then the alliance. The alliance were the only ones to show up to fight Sovereign, so I'm thinking they were on Shepard's side with this one. 

The Normandy was an Alliance ship that was ordered by the human representative to be on lockdown. So yeah, they mutinied against the alliance. It was only Hackett that was on Shepard's side.

[Siansonea]

Seboist wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

You can bash the Alliance until the cows come home, and you might bring up some good points, but it doesn't change the fact that the VS is an Alliance operative, and they are acting in accordance with their duty. Shepard was once with the Alliance, was once with the Council, but now Shepard is with Cerberus. Freakin' Cerberus. And everyone around here acts like that's perfectly okay, that it's no big deal. You people have a short memory.

You mean like how Ashley/Kaidan were performing their "duty to the Alliance" when they went along with Shepard and openly mutinied against the Alliance and Council after they locked the Normandy down and refused to allow Shepard to travel to Ilos to stop Saren and Soveriegn? 

That was more against the council then the alliance. The alliance were the only ones to show up to fight Sovereign, so I'm thinking they were on Shepard's side with this one. 

The Normandy was an Alliance ship that was ordered by the human representative to be on lockdown. So yeah, they mutinied against the alliance. It was only Hackett that was on Shepard's side.

Hackett, Anderson (did you not notice Anderson punching out Udina?) and the entire crew of the Normandy.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 01 août 2011 - 05:41 .

[Seboist]

Siansonea II wrote...

Seboist wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

You can bash the Alliance until the cows come home, and you might bring up some good points, but it doesn't change the fact that the VS is an Alliance operative, and they are acting in accordance with their duty. Shepard was once with the Alliance, was once with the Council, but now Shepard is with Cerberus. Freakin' Cerberus. And everyone around here acts like that's perfectly okay, that it's no big deal. You people have a short memory.

You mean like how Ashley/Kaidan were performing their "duty to the Alliance" when they went along with Shepard and openly mutinied against the Alliance and Council after they locked the Normandy down and refused to allow Shepard to travel to Ilos to stop Saren and Soveriegn? 

That was more against the council then the alliance. The alliance were the only ones to show up to fight Sovereign, so I'm thinking they were on Shepard's side with this one. 

The Normandy was an Alliance ship that was ordered by the human representative to be on lockdown. So yeah, they mutinied against the alliance. It was only Hackett that was on Shepard's side.

Hackett, Anderson (did you not notice Anderson punching out Udina?) and the entire crew of the Normandy.

Anderson does have a habit of betraying humanity.

[ADLegend21]

restoring trust with the VS? an easy falling excercise could fix that. XD

[Siansonea]

Seboist wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Seboist wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

You can bash the Alliance until the cows come home, and you might bring up some good points, but it doesn't change the fact that the VS is an Alliance operative, and they are acting in accordance with their duty. Shepard was once with the Alliance, was once with the Council, but now Shepard is with Cerberus. Freakin' Cerberus. And everyone around here acts like that's perfectly okay, that it's no big deal. You people have a short memory.

You mean like how Ashley/Kaidan were performing their "duty to the Alliance" when they went along with Shepard and openly mutinied against the Alliance and Council after they locked the Normandy down and refused to allow Shepard to travel to Ilos to stop Saren and Soveriegn? 

That was more against the council then the alliance. The alliance were the only ones to show up to fight Sovereign, so I'm thinking they were on Shepard's side with this one. 

The Normandy was an Alliance ship that was ordered by the human representative to be on lockdown. So yeah, they mutinied against the alliance. It was only Hackett that was on Shepard's side.

Hackett, Anderson (did you not notice Anderson punching out Udina?) and the entire crew of the Normandy.

Anderson does have a habit of betraying humanity.

*sees bait*

*doesn't take it*

[whywhywhywhy]

Siansonea II wrote...
@whywhywhywhywhywhywhy: Actually, it is on topic. We're discussing the VS, and Shepard's reactions to Horizon.
You'll move Heaven and Earth to construct a scenario in which the VS is a completely irrational douchebag for not just cozying up to Shepard the instant they meet on Horizon.

The VS imo is irrational but I didn't expect them to "cozy" up to Shepard I don't value Ash as a LI.  I did however expect her to fall in line and help combat the Reaper threat which threathens the entire galaxy.  Making any promotion or mission (except one against the reapers) irrelevant if you along with the rest of the known galaxy is wiped out.  And if she had time to be sent to Horizon to see if Cerberus was behind the colony abductions whatever she was tasked to do couldn't have been so important or time sensitive.

Siansonea II wrote...
You think the VS should just "trust" Shepard, no matter what. Because Shepard did some awesome stuff two years ago.

If Siansonea Shepard's actions from me1 doesn't matter, if we're playing the "what have you done for me lately" game.  Why is Ash/VS joining Shepard in ME3 on earth ? All he does there is go to trial...

Siansonea II wrote...
You expect the VS to believe preposterous things, like Shepard saying he was in a coma for two years while Cerberus rebuilt him. Yes, it happened in the game, the player saw it. But the VS didn't, and it sounds like a load of hooey. Any reasonable, rational person would be skeptical about such a story.

You sound like you have no idea what truth and trust mean.  In any relationship friendship or otherwise, trust is the foundation it's built upon.  Do you think the VS wants him to lie to convince her everything is ok when his character is being called into question because of the events that transpired which lead to his association with Cerberus ?  He was truthfully you can't expect more then that.  But who knows maybe your right maybe the VS wants to be lied to, discover he lied I wonder how that would play out.

Siansonea II wrote...
And the whole idea of Shepard working with Cerberus should make a reasonable, rational person question the wisdom and motives of Shepard.

That's a given but should that person not also consider the ramifications of the bad guys (reapers) winning if he doesn't ?  So instead of "how could you !?" maybe "Are things that bad ?" would have been a better stance.  It's certainly more rational.

Siansonea II wrote...
And certainly anybody who gave their oath to the Alliance should not be sanguine about their former commanding officer ditching the Alliance to work with an avowed enemy of the Alliance. You can bash the Alliance until the cows come home, and you might bring up some good points, but it doesn't change the fact that the VS is an Alliance operative, and they are acting in accordance with their duty.

They both were in me1 and we saw how Udina/Alliance and the Council locked the sr1 down when he needed to get to Illos to stop Saren.  Had they along with Anderson been "good little soldiers" and stayed put instead it would have most likely resulted in galactic extinction.  They wouldn't have had the file to take control of the Citadel and given where the conduit takes you(short elevator ride to the console), not to mention Shepard wouldn't have had any idea what Saren was after.  Saren and hs geth after coming through the conduit had to fight a minimal resistance to get up the elevator, couple flights of stairs then boom, done.  Would technically take longer for Shepard to get geared off the normandy and to Saren.

You can't have it both ways so let me ask you does it pay to be a mindless drone of the alliance ?  Or do you still standby "holding the line" against all enemies of the alliance.  Your way we wouldn't have had a me2 or a very different one.  Given what's going on with the series that may not necessarily a bad thing.....others may disagree though.

Siansonea II wrote...
Shepard was once with the Alliance, was once with the Council, but now Shepard is with Cerberus. Freakin' Cerberus. And everyone around here acts like that's perfectly okay, that it's no big deal. You people have a short memory.

It's not that we have short memories I like to think it's about practically.  I don't like Cerberus at all but the game structures them in as a necessary evil at least temporarily to fund this mission.  If Shepard was wealthy he'd have no need for Cerberus he could fund his own mission but out of all the backgrounds you can give him none of them indicates any type of wealth. 

This is where your disconnect happens, are humans who join Cerberus not allowed to fight against the Reapers ? Are they not allowed to live ?  Cerberus is investigating the human colonies something the Alliance wasn't interested in doing until Cerberus became involved.  This fortunately led to the discovery of the connection between the Collectors and the Reapers.  See Cerberus served a vital function in ME2 they funded the mission I just hate you couldn't be more vocal or decisive in how you go about dealing with them.

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 01 août 2011 - 06:52 .

[Siansonea]

You so Renegade. Look at you go.

So in other words, every NPC should kiss Shepard's butt and believe everything Shepard says, even if it sounds ridiculous, because hey, it's Commander Shepard. Shepard doesn't have to abide by any rules, doesn't have to answer for any questionable decisions or anything like that, because the game structure requires Shepard to do those things. Okay, I think I understand your point now. If only the VS knew they were in a video game.

[Siansonea]

I found this elsewhere on the site, someone helpfully transcribed all of the dialog from the Kaidan version of the Horizon scene. Does somebody want to point out where Kaidan is so unreasonable and overly emotional here? Because he seems pretty on the money to me with what he's saying, unless we expect him to have player-perspective knowledge or something.

Romance dialogue.
Regular dialogue.

------

     Mechanic: No! Don't let them get away!

> It's too late.
     Shepard: There's nothing we can do. They're gone.
> What do you expect me to do?
     Shepard: That ship is huge. Exactly how are we supposed to catch it?

     Mechanic: Half the colony's in there! They took Egan and Sam and... and Lilith! Do something!

> I'm sorry.
     Shepard: I didn't want it to end this way. I did what I could.
     Party Member: (consoles Shepard)
> Blame them, not me.
     Shepard: I did my best. You just hid in your damned bunker.
     Party Member: (supports Shepard)

     Mechanic: Shepard? Wait. I know that name.
     Mechanic: Sure, I remember you. You're some type of big Alliance hero.
     Kaidan: Commander Shepard. Captain of the Normandy. The first human Spectre. Savior of the Citadel.
     Kaidan: You're in the presence of a legend, Delan. And a ghost.
     Mechanic: All the good people we lost, and you get left behind. Figures.
     Mechanic: Screw this. I'm done with you Alliance types.

     Kaidan: I thought you were dead, Shepard. We all did.
     Kaidan: I thought you were dead, Commander. We all did.

> It's good to see you again.
     Shepard: It's been too long, Kaidan. How've you been?
     Kaidan: Is that all you have to say? You show up after two years and just act like nothing happened.
> You sound angry.
     Shepard: You don't sound too happy to see me. Something bothering you, Kaidan?
     Kaidan: Yeah, something's bothering me. I spent the past two years believing you were dead!
> I was. We can't get into it.
     Shepard: A reunion has to wait. Cerberus brought me back to stop attacks like this.
     (Jump to *)

     Kaidan: I thought we had something, Shepard. Something real. I... I loved you.
     Kaidan: Thinking you were dead tore me apart. How could you put me through that?
     Kaidan: I would've followed you anywhere, Commander. Thinking you were gone... it was like losing a limb.
     Kaidan: Why didn't you try to contact me? Why didn't you let me know you were alive?

> I didn't want to hurt you.
     Shepard: I'm sorry, Kaidan. I was clinically dead. It took two years to bring me back.
     Shepard: So much time has passed. You've moved on. I don't want to reopen old wounds.
> Too much time has passed.
     Shepard: I was out for two years. You've moved on with your career and your life. Why reopen old wounds?
     Kaidan: I did move on. At least, I thought I did. But now we've got reports about you and Cerberus.
> I wasn't even conscious!
     Shepard: Not my choice. I spent the last two years in some kind of coma while Cerberus rebuilt me.
     *Kaidan: You're with Cerberus now? I can't believe the reports were right.
> I have important things to do.
     Shepard: You're still with the Alliance. You've turned a blind eye to the problem. But human colonies are disappearing. I'm trying to save them.
     Kaidan: Really? Is that what you're doing? Because I saw reports that you were working with Cerberus.

     Party Member: (questions reports)
     Kaidan: Alliance intel thought that Cerberus might be behind the missing human colonies. They got a tip this colony might be the next one to get hit.
     Kaidan: Anderson stonewalled me, but there were rumors that you weren't dead. That you were working for the enemy.

> Cerberus isn't the enemy.
     Shepard: Our colonies are disappearing. The Alliance turned its back on them. Cerberus is the only group willing to do something about it.
     Kaidan: You can't really believe that! We both know what Cerberus is like. What they're capable of.
> That's why you're on Horizon.
     Shepard: Building the defense towers was just a cover story. The Alliance sent you here to investigate me, didn't they?
     Kaidan: I was here for Cerberus. You were just a rumor.
> I don't work for Cerberus.
     Shepard: Cerberus and I want the same thing: to save our colonies. That doesn't mean I answer to them.
     Kaidan: Do you really believe that? Or is that just what Cerberus wants you to think?

     Kaidan: I wanted to believe the rumors that you were alive, but I never expected anything like this.
     Kaidan: You turned your back on everything we believed in. You betrayed the Alliance. You betrayed me.
     Kaidan: You turned your back on everything we stood for!

> I'm not a traitor.
     Shepard: Kaidan, you know me. You know I'd only do this for the right reason.
> Look at the big picture.
     Shepard: This isn't about me working for Cerberus, Kaidan. Something far more important is at stake.
> Get over it.
     Shepard: The past is done. You need to focus on what's happening now.

     Shepard: You saw it yourself. The Collectors are targetting human colonies and they're working with the Reapers.
     Kaidan: I want to believe you, Shepard. But I don't trust Cerberus. They could be using the threat of a Reaper to manipulate you.
     Kaidan: What if they're behind it? What if they're working with the Collectors?
     Party Member: (comment about Kaidan's doubts)

> You're too emotional, Kaidan.
     Shepard: You're letting how you feel about their history get in the way of the facts.
     Kaidan: Maybe. Or maybe you feel like you owe Cerberus because they saved you. Maybe you're the one who's not thinking straight.
> So you won't listen?
     Shepard: I can see you won't listen to reason.
     Kaidan: You show up after two years and tell me you're working with Cerberus. What does reason figure into any of this?

     Kaidan: You've changed. But I still know where my loyalties lie. I'm an Alliance solider. Always will be.
     Kaidan: I've got to report back to the Citadel. They can decide if they believe your story or not.

> Don't go. Join me.
     Shepard: I could use someone like you in my crew, Kaidan. It'll be just like old times.
     Kaidan: No, it won't. I'll never work for Cerberus.
> Goodbye.
     Shepard: So long, Kaidan.
     Kaidan: So long, Commander. Good luck.
     (Jump to **)
> Fat chance.
     Shepard: We both know how that's gonna turn out. The Alliance will try to blame Cerberus just like you did.
     Kaidan: A leopard can't change its spots. Cerberus can't be trusted.

     Kaidan: Goodbye, Shepard. And be careful.

     **Shepard: Joker -- send the shuttle to pick us up. I've had enough of this colony.

[Iakus]

Siansonea II wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

You can bash the Alliance until the cows come home, and you might bring up some good points, but it doesn't change the fact that the VS is an Alliance operative, and they are acting in accordance with their duty. Shepard was once with the Alliance, was once with the Council, but now Shepard is with Cerberus. Freakin' Cerberus. And everyone around here acts like that's perfectly okay, that it's no big deal. You people have a short memory.

You mean like how Ashley/Kaidan were performing their "duty to the Alliance" when they openly mutinied against the Alliance and Council along with Shepard after the Council/Alliance locked the Normandy down and refused to allow Shepard to travel to Ilos to stop Saren and Soveriegn? 

Oh darn, you got me there, except...THAT was all Captain Anderson's idea. And it was clear that there was no other option. The VS knew what was going on.

The VS knew that SHepard got into all sorts of crazy hijinks during the chase for Saren and the Reapers.  Now here's Shepard again, on another whirwind adventure full of wacky hijinks.  You don't suppose...

Nah.  Must be a traitor...

Shepard showing up on Horizon with Cerberus is not a parallel situation at all. It's been two years, two years of silence, two years of thinking Shepard was dead. But there's Shepard, alive as can be, claiming that he was in a coma for two years. That just doesn't sound believable to me if I'm the VS. And no matter what, CERBERUS is a whole order of magnitude worse than anything the VS did with Shepard in the first game. It just doesn't add up, and Shepard should see that. But instead, everyone knee-jerk reacts to Ashley/Kaidan's "tone", and doesn't actually listen to what they have to say. Kids today. <_<

Yeah, SHepard (and maybe Garrus) show up with Cerberus personell and equipment  But they're shooting at the scary aliens hauing the colonists off!  and their husk minions!  And they get the gun emplacement working and drive off their ship!  They saved teh colony!  The first one in two years not to get completely stripped!  This is not the reputation Cerberus has.  They destroy colonies with their mad scientist experiments, not save them!  

Seeing this would be like unto seeing Superman and Lex Luthor working together to stop an alien invasion.  Are Lois and Jimmy going to assume Supes has gone Dark Side?  Or will they wonder if there's something else going on?

Seriously, do you guys not remember what Cerberus did in the first game?  "I don't trust Cerberus" is a pretty mild reaction, considering the atrocities Cerberus has committed.

"I don't trust Cerberus" is fine.  It's the "You're a traitor who's forgotten your loyalties" that crosses a line.

Garrus says "I don't trust Cerberus" but joins Shepard
Tali makes her distrust of Cerberus abundantly clear.  Also helps Shepard
Anderson doesn't trust Cerberus, but defends Shepard before the Council
Hackett "doesn't like" Cerberus or the way they do things.  But trusts Shepard enough with the Dr Kenson incident.

[Iakus]

Siansonea II wrote...

I found this elsewhere on the site, someone helpfully transcribed all of the dialog from the Kaidan version of the Horizon scene. Does somebody want to point out where Kaidan is so unreasonable and overly emotional here? Because he seems pretty on the money to me with what he's saying, unless we expect him to have player-perspective knowledge or something.

     Kaidan: You turned your back on everything we believed in. You betrayed the Alliance. You betrayed me.
     Kaidan: You turned your back on everything we stood for!

Here

     Kaidan: You've changed. But I still know where my loyalties lie. I'm an Alliance solider. Always will be.
     Kaidan: I've got to report back to the Citadel. They can decide if they believe your story or not.

And here

And most of Shepard's responses to Kaidan's questions, of course.

Modifié par iakus, 01 août 2011 - 09:03 .

[Siansonea]

iakus wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

You can bash the Alliance until the cows come home, and you might bring up some good points, but it doesn't change the fact that the VS is an Alliance operative, and they are acting in accordance with their duty. Shepard was once with the Alliance, was once with the Council, but now Shepard is with Cerberus. Freakin' Cerberus. And everyone around here acts like that's perfectly okay, that it's no big deal. You people have a short memory.

You mean like how Ashley/Kaidan were performing their "duty to the Alliance" when they openly mutinied against the Alliance and Council along with Shepard after the Council/Alliance locked the Normandy down and refused to allow Shepard to travel to Ilos to stop Saren and Soveriegn? 

Oh darn, you got me there, except...THAT was all Captain Anderson's idea. And it was clear that there was no other option. The VS knew what was going on.

The VS knew that SHepard got into all sorts of crazy hijinks during the chase for Saren and the Reapers.  Now here's Shepard again, on another whirwind adventure full of wacky hijinks.  You don't suppose...

Nah.  Must be a traitor...

There's a difference between saying "you betrayed the Alliance" and calling someone a "traitor". Kaidan never said the word "traitor". And Shepard IS betraying the Alliance by working for an avowed enemy of the Alliance, i.e., Cerberus. 

Shepard showing up on Horizon with Cerberus is not a parallel situation at all. It's been two years, two years of silence, two years of thinking Shepard was dead. But there's Shepard, alive as can be, claiming that he was in a coma for two years. That just doesn't sound believable to me if I'm the VS. And no matter what, CERBERUS is a whole order of magnitude worse than anything the VS did with Shepard in the first game. It just doesn't add up, and Shepard should see that. But instead, everyone knee-jerk reacts to Ashley/Kaidan's "tone", and doesn't actually listen to what they have to say. Kids today. <_<

Yeah, SHepard (and maybe Garrus) show up with Cerberus personell and equipment  But they're shooting at the scary aliens hauing the colonists off!  and their husk minions!  And they get the gun emplacement working and drive off their ship!  They saved teh colony!  The first one in two years not to get completely stripped!  This is not the reputation Cerberus has.  They destroy colonies with their mad scientist experiments, not save them!  

Seeing this would be like unto seeing Superman and Lex Luthor working together to stop an alien invasion.  Are Lois and Jimmy going to assume Supes has gone Dark Side?  Or will they wonder if there's something else going on?

Now we're comparing Shepard to Superman? 

Seriously, do you guys not remember what Cerberus did in the first game?  "I don't trust Cerberus" is a pretty mild reaction, considering the atrocities Cerberus has committed.

"I don't trust Cerberus" is fine.  It's the "You're a traitor who's forgotten your loyalties" that crosses a line.

Kaidan never says "You're a traitor who's forgotten your loyalties". If you're going to be mad at somebody, be mad at what they actually said, not your worse-sounding paraphrase.

Garrus says "I don't trust Cerberus" but joins Shepard
Tali makes her distrust of Cerberus abundantly clear.  Also helps Shepard
Anderson doesn't trust Cerberus, but defends Shepard before the Council
Hackett "doesn't like" Cerberus or the way they do things.  But trusts Shepard enough with the Dr Kenson incident.

Well, Anderson and Hackett don't JOIN Cerberus either. Tali and Garrus aren't Alliance, so they can do whatever they want. But Kaidan and Ashley are Alliance soldiers. So just ditching the Alliance and joining Shepard is a much trickier proposition than it is for Tali and Garrus. Which Shepard knows perfectly well, yet extends the ridiculous invitation anyway. 

[Siansonea]

All right, let's take them individually:

iakus wrote...
*snip*

     Kaidan: You turned your back on everything we believed in. You betrayed the Alliance. You betrayed me.
     Kaidan: You turned your back on everything we stood for!

Here

Shepard DID turn his back on everything they stood for in ME1. Remember Shepard and Company OPPOSING Cerberus in ME1? Remember the decidedly anti-Cerberus slant throughout that entire game? Remember Edolus, Binthu, and Nepheron? Remember Corporal Toombs? Remember Akuze? Yeah, Shepard did a 180° turn on Cerberus. That's "turning your back". And Kaidan only says the "betrayal" line to a romanced Shepard, because it's more personal in that situation.

     Kaidan: You've changed. But I still know where my loyalties lie. I'm an Alliance solider. Always will be.
     Kaidan: I've got to report back to the Citadel. They can decide if they believe your story or not.

And here

Shepard has changed. And what's wrong with being loyal to the Alliance? Shepard's not a god, to demand absolute fealty above all others. Kaidan's loyalty SHOULD be to the Alliance. Shepard has been missing for TWO YEARS, and Kaidan's supposed to drop everything he's been doing for the last two years after a few words with Shepard? 

Seriously? 

And most of Shepard's responses to Kaidan's questions, of course.

I don't know what this means in this context.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 01 août 2011 - 09:31 .

[whywhywhywhy]

Siansonea II wrote...

You so Renegade. Look at you go.

So in other words, every NPC should kiss Shepard's butt and believe everything Shepard says, even if it sounds ridiculous, because hey, it's Commander Shepard. Shepard doesn't have to abide by any rules, doesn't have to answer for any questionable decisions or anything like that, because the game structure requires Shepard to do those things. Okay, I think I understand your point now. If only the VS knew they were in a video game.

What can I say I'ma bad boy.  And to answer your question yeah he doesn't cause he's a spectre. Why do you keep rehashing the same argument and not responding to what I posted ? 

Lastly how badly did that guy hurt you ? 
Pm and let me know. 
Dr. Whywhywhywhy can make it all better.

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 01 août 2011 - 09:45 .

[Siansonea]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

You so Renegade. Look at you go.

So in other words, every NPC should kiss Shepard's butt and believe everything Shepard says, even if it sounds ridiculous, because hey, it's Commander Shepard. Shepard doesn't have to abide by any rules, doesn't have to answer for any questionable decisions or anything like that, because the game structure requires Shepard to do those things. Okay, I think I understand your point now. If only the VS knew they were in a video game.

What can I say I'ma bad boy.  And to answer your question yeah he doesn't cause he's a spectre. Why do you keep rehashing the same argument and not responding to what I posted ? 

Lastly how badly did that guy hurt you ? 
Pm and let me know. 

I'm still waiting for you to make a legitimate point. When you construct an actual logical scenario, I'll respond, but pretty much everything you say is a haphazard collection of misquotes, assumptions and false conclusions based on false perceptions. Those things are self-evident, I certainly don't need to point them out again. Especially since you just ignore all the perfectly rational observations made by people who have disagreed with you in this thread. All your arguments boil down to a simple "but it's Shepard!!!!"

And you can stop with the innuendo any time. You're just making yourself look like an ass.

[Made Nightwing]

@Siansonea, making some good points. But as much as I agree with them, I believe you also understand that we're all RPing as as individuals. @whywhywhywhy's logic chain makes sense for his Shepards, your logic makes sense for yours. There is no one perfect scenario.

[Made Nightwing]

darkness reborn wrote...

I'll just toss the Vs out of the airlock, let Cerberus rebuild the VS, then yell at them for working for Cerberus.

Payback's a B***H!

Nah, Liara's the only squadmate allowed to be that much of a Mary Sue.

[whywhywhywhy]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

You so Renegade. Look at you go.

So in other words, every NPC should kiss Shepard's butt and believe everything Shepard says, even if it sounds ridiculous, because hey, it's Commander Shepard. Shepard doesn't have to abide by any rules, doesn't have to answer for any questionable decisions or anything like that, because the game structure requires Shepard to do those things. Okay, I think I understand your point now. If only the VS knew they were in a video game.

What can I say I'ma bad boy.  And to answer your question yeah he doesn't cause he's a spectre. Why do you keep rehashing the same argument and not responding to what I posted ? 

Lastly how badly did that guy hurt you ? 
Pm and let me know. 

Siansonea II wrote...
I'm still waiting for you to make a legitimate point.
When you construct an actual logical scenario, I'll respond, but pretty much everything you say is a haphazard collection of misquotes, assumptions and false conclusions based on false perceptions.

Then you should have a easy time ripping me a new one, that you haven't is evidence of the contrary.

Siansonea II wrote...
Those things are self-evident, I certainly don't need to point them out again. Especially since you just ignore all the perfectly rational observations made by people who have disagreed with you in this thread. All your arguments boil down to a simple "but it's Shepard!!!!"

No. You've simply convinced yourself of that.

Siansonea II wrote...
And you can stop with the innuendo any time.

innuendo ? You make it sound dirty they were just jabs at you for these comments "In any case, stop speculating about my psychological profile, because I can pretty much guarantee that you'll be off the mark. You simply don't have enough information. " and "Gee, and usually you're so rational and objective."  If we look at your Shepard comments they do carry a hint of man hate.  They certainly lack rationale of the situation from Shepard's perspective.

You said I was off the mark that my conclusion was false. I didn't think it would bother you unless it was true. 
I'll stop since I know it bothers you.

Siansonea II wrote...
You're just making yourself look like an ass.

Sorry. Defense mechanism to make sure noone likes me.

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 01 août 2011 - 10:23 .

[Made Nightwing]

darkness reborn wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

darkness reborn wrote...

I'll just toss the Vs out of the airlock, let Cerberus rebuild the VS, then yell at them for working for Cerberus.

Payback's a B***H!

Nah, Liara's the only squadmate allowed to be that much of a Mary Sue.

Plz.

I'm sorry, but that's how it goes. I'd lay a hundred to one odds that Liara will retain her plot armour from previous games.

[whywhywhywhy]

Made Nightwing wrote...

darkness reborn wrote...

Made
Nightwing wrote...

darkness reborn wrote...



I'll
just toss the Vs out of the airlock, let Cerberus rebuild the VS, then
yell at them for working for Cerberus.



Payback's a B***H!

Nah, Liara's the only squadmate allowed to be that much
of a Mary Sue.

Plz.../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png

I'm sorry, but that's how it goes. I'd lay a
hundred to one odds that Liara will retain her plot armour from previous
games.

Finally something we can agree on. I think they might be planning to use her in spin off games in some capacity. Kind of like Flemeth in the DA series.

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 01 août 2011 - 10:31 .