Where's that post of the hypothetical conversation between Ash and Anderson, post Horizon? I need to read that again...
I hope you thank me for searching through this thread for this one:
JKoopman wrote...
VS: Mission accomplished, sir! Reporting for debriefing. Anderson: Ah, excellent! What did you uncover about Shepard and the missing colonies? VS: Well, sir, I can confirm that Shepard is alive. Anderson: Okay, well, I already knew that because Shepard came to visit me here on the Citadel at my own invitation. Didn't you get my email? VS: Oh, well... I can confirm that Shepard is working with Cerberus at least! Anderson: Uh... again, I already knew that. Shepard told me as much himself, and he explained that his alliance with Cerberus was only out of necessity. Did you uncover evidence to the contrary? VS: Well... no. I mean, Shepard told me that he was only using them to investigate the colony attacks but... Anderson: So then you uncovered evidence that Cerberus is controlling him somehow? VS: Err, well... no. I mean, I kinda flipped out and stormed off as soon as he name-dropped Cerberus and didn't really give him a chance to explain... Anderson: So Shepard freely admitted to working with Cerberus? VS: Err, yes. In retrospect, sir, he actually seemed quite up-front about it. Garrus even... Anderson: Wait, Garrus was there too? VS: Yes, sir. He seemed to be quite convinced that Cerberus wasn't the enemy. Anderson:*sigh* Well, did you at least find out anything about the missing colonies? VS: I did, sir. Shepard seemed to think the Collectors are responsible for the colony attacks and that they're working for the Reapers... Anderson: .....Again, already knew that, but proceed. VS: ...um, but I think Cerberus might actually be behind them, sir. Anderson: Interesting. I assume you have evidence to support this? VS: Well... no. It's just my suspicion, sir. After the aliens attacked Horizon, I... Anderson: Wait. They actually attacked Horizon? Well, you must have seen them then! VS: Err, well... no, actually. I got stung by some sort of alien insect and spent the entire attack frozen in stasis behind some crates. All I saw was their ship flying away after Shepard fought them off. Anderson: Shepard actually engaged them? VS: Yes, sir. He saved half the colony from being abducted, myself included. Anderson:*facepalm* So Shepard is working with Cerberus, Shepard fought off the Collectors and saved the colony... and you think that Cerberus are secretly working with the Collectors? So you think that Cerberus is using Shepard to fight themselves? VS: Err... it seemed to make sense at the time, sir. Anderson: Well, did you at least acquire any data from Shepard? Collector scans? Weapon specs? He must have all sorts of intel regarding the Collectors if he successfully engaged them. Perhaps even some countermeasures we could use to protect ourselves. VS: Um... no. Nothing. Anderson: Wasn't he willing to cooperate? VS: Actually, he wanted to take me back to his ship. Anderson: .....So then, what was the problem? VS: Umm......... I kinda called him a traitor and stormed off. Anderson:*facepalm* So let me get this straight. Shepard fought off the Collectors, saved the colony, rescued your own dumb ass and then offered to let you inspect a classified Cerberus warship and share valuable data about advanced alien technology... and your response was to call him a traitor and walk away without so much as a "thank you"? VS: .......... Anderson: So... you basically came back empty-handed. Am I correct? VS: .................... Anderson: Useless. Just... leave. That'll be all. VS:*salutes* Anderson: If I were you, I'd be thinking of some way to make this up to Shepard. You owe him that much for saving your ass. VS: Yes, sir! *turnsto leave* Anderson:*shouts* And it better not be some half-assed email apology!
Very true, but I felt that way with every reunion I had with my former team member. Each of them had lackluster responses to Shepard's return. As for their lack of interest in the colonist abductions, I don't blame the VS for that - it's not his/her decision. I suppose they could leave their service in the Alliance, but they're Alliance soldiers through and through. [edit] Regardless, I was only referring to the anger they felt, that I understood it.
Yeah people take Sheopard's return remarkably well, al things considered. Though Tali's response on Freedom's Progress was pretty good. Much closer to what I thought the VS should have responded.
As to the colony abductions: I wasn't talking about going off with Shepard, I'm talking about asking questions like "What were those things?" "How come you didn't get stung" "What does "assuming direct control" mean?
To me, there was too much anger, not enough wonder. And certainly not enough curiosity.
Honestly, that whole post is a load of bollocks. Ash is getting the blame for Anderson screwing her over.
Agreed. Much of the misunderstanding on the part of the VS re. Shepard could have been prevented if Anderson hadn't stonewalled them. The fact that Anderson did in spite of having goodwill towards Shepard tells me that he wanted the VS's investigation to be independent and unprejudiced. Accordingly, getting snippy because they relay some information that (unbeknownst to them) he already knew is completely hypocritical and, frankly, beneath a character of his integrity.
It's not written perfectly, that's for sure. But truth be told, we could dissect any conversation in the game and come up with some glaring problems. But yeah, the VS needed to ask Shepard a lot more questions, and Shepard needed to volunteer a lot more information. I think BioWare didn't put a lot of thought into the scene, it was their cameo for the VS, just to acknowledge their place in the first game and give a reason for them to be "out of the picture" for the second game and save them for the third game. I strongly suspect that a whole lot more was originally written for that scene, but it was probably cut for length.
There's "not written perfectly" and then there's wretched. Plenty of scenes were not perfect. Horizon makes my top three worst scenes of ME2. I'd rather have had no cameo at all than that one. It's what you get when you cut too many corners, I guess.
Where's that post of the hypothetical conversation between Ash and Anderson, post Horizon? I need to read that again...
I hope you thank me for searching through this thread for this one:
That's it, thank you :happy:
And the pont of it is that Anderson talked to Shepard to find out what was going on. He asked Shepard to come and explainhis actions. Consequently he gained some information and stayed on good terms with Shepard. The VS, otoh, was in a position to gain a lot more information, saw for him/herself that Cerberus was not responsible for the missing colonies, stormed off, and possibly damaged future relations with Shep.
Honestly, that whole post is a load of bollocks. Ash is getting the blame for Anderson screwing her over.
I agree. This is some Ash hater's wet dream. If I was Ash, and Anderson went all Douchebag on me like this, I would tell Anderson, "Well, since you already know everything, you don't need me for the rest of this debriefing. Tell you what, next time you have information that pertains to one of my active investigations, how about you give me that information BEFOREHAND. That would be much more helpful than you just keeping everything to yourself. You know that "need to know" thing? Well, when you send someone off to investigate Cerberus, and you learn that someone that person knows is WORKING with Cerberus, it might be a good idea to let your agent know that. But I guess being a politician has weakened your strategic skills. Sir."
Honestly, that whole post is a load of bollocks. Ash is getting the blame for Anderson screwing her over.
Agreed. Much of the misunderstanding on the part of the VS re. Shepard could have been prevented if Anderson hadn't stonewalled them. The fact that Anderson did in spite of having goodwill towards Shepard tells me that he wanted the VS's investigation to be independent and unprejudiced. Accordingly, getting snippy because they relay some information that (unbeknownst to them) he already knew is completely hypocritical and, frankly, beneath a character of his integrity.
And Anderson would never say anything like this fanfiction writer's poor attempt at VS-bashing. Anderson would understand the VS' point of view, because Anderson is a grown-up. Anderson not telling the VS about Shepard really makes no sense to me. I can understand Anderson not telling Shepard about the VS, but seriously, what was the point of keeping the VS in the dark about Shepard being alive and working with Cerberus? Did he think the VS was a poor security risk or something? Ridiculous.
Anderson talked to Shepard to find out what was going on. He asked Shepard to come and explainhis actions. Consequently he gained some information and stayed on good terms with Shepard. The VS, otoh, was in a position to gain a lot more information, saw for him/herself that Cerberus was not responsible for the missing colonies, stormed off, and possibly damaged future relations with Shep.
You know, regardless of what we as the players know, there was a fair bit of evidence in favour of Cerberus being involved in the attack on Horizon. The presence of husks, which are known to have been experimented on by Cerberus, is just one example. Shepard's squad treats this like proof of Reaper involvement, but, again, it's just evidence (which could be interpreted a number of ways).
Also, if we're going to talk about player knowledge, there's the tiny fact that TIM did actually set up the attack on Horizon. Just saying.
As for Anderson, he had the resources to hear about Shepard and extend a hand to her. The VS, as far as we know, was in deep cover and could do no such thing.
EDIT: Siansonea, I agree so much with both of your posts there. Anderson would never speak to Ash that way - and, if he did, she'd be entirely entitled to respond as you write.
1. you can avoid going to Citadel for pretty much the entire game. you can avoid ever talking to Anderson and the council - its not necessary to finish the game. there are times where Citadel was the first place I went to. there were play throughs were I didn't show up on a Citadel long after Horizon.
2. lets get something straight. VS was NOT sent to horizon to investigate Shepard. VS was sent to Horizon because they got a tip that that colony was going to be attacked next and that abductions are connected to Cerberus, probably done BY Cerberus. VS heard some rumors about Shepard being alive but nothing concrete.
3. neither VS, nor Anderson had any knowledge whatsoever about Shepard possibly showing up on Horizon. if I'm reading the timeline correctly, actualy - by the time you have a chance to show up on a Citadel even if its the first place you go to, VS was already dispatched to Horizon. its quite possible that contact with the citadel would have to be limited. and no sensitive information could be passed along.
4. you can learn all of the above but simply asking VS AND Anderson.
5. I'm personally not convinced that Cerberus wasn't entirely unconnected to collectors. after all. TIM managed to find set up that collector ship trap for Shepard, faking Turian encryption and all. he managed to get the word about Horizon out to all the involved parties. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that TIM was manipulating both Shepard AND collectors.
lastly. in that conversation? it sounded nothing like Anderson. I very much agree that it was just a wish fulfillment dream of a miffed VS hater, who cannot handle being challenged... at all.
Horizon was... bad. it was carelessly written and as it stands, neither party was blameless. but I have much easier time sympathizing with VS's point of view then with Shepard's.
There's been some talk about Shepard's line to the VS," It's been to long.How have you been?"
I believe someone said that hearing Shep say that to the VS made them cringe
I can't really say that I understand such a reaction as this myself...I took what Shepard says here as him not only speaking to the VS, but BioWare's way of speaking to all those who's Love Interest is the VS (or they are one of their favorite characters from Mass Effect 1.)
Think about how much stuff you have to do in ME 2 before you are "Finally" reunited with the VS.
-Escape the Lazarus Station
-Go to Freedom's Progress
-Visit the Citadel Council and get reinstated as a Spectre or tell them to 'FO' and get stonewalled by Anderson
-Recruit Dr.Mordin Solus, The Convict, Dr.Okeer and Archangel
-Add in Kasumi and Zaeed
-You can even throw in some "Side Quest" for good measure
ALL THIS can take place before you ever reach Horizon.So Commander Shepard's words struck me as more than appropriate...What he says here reminds me of what Sam says to Frodo towards the end of the Two Towers.As the Awesome screenwriter Philippia Boyens put it.In that scene sam was talking to the audeince as well as Mr.Frodo.
Another thing: Sian, I don't believe that either I or whywhywhywhy, were being condescending at all; when we put the definition of certain words in our post.I do that at times bec ause.
A. I don't assume that everyone knows what certain words mean.
B. Even if one knows what a word means.Reading a defintion outloud or silently can cause one to view that word differently.
Like for example the word 'violence'. It doesn't sound so bad when you said it outloud.It sort of reminds of the word 'violet' A pretty color that is sort of has a calming and soothing effect on the one who looks at it.But I recall reading the defintion of violence one day, (not that long ago0 and -- reading that description of what that word implies made me cringe and (almost) shiver
Anywhoo... On to my main point now.
paul165 wrote... A more entertaining question is whether we can trust the Alliance given the events of Arrival and what we know of the beginning of ME3 but that I fear is a conversation for another thread.
I don't think that "that is a conversation for another thread at all - Paul.(And for me.It is the events of Mass Effect 2 that raises serious questions about the Alliance) In fact if you consider the name of this thread, "Restoring Trust with the VS' The Virmire Survivor in ME 2 represents the Alliance.Commander Shepard in ME 2 (whether he or she likes it or not) represents Cerberus.The impression that I have gotten from Siansonea II and redbaron76 is that they are clearly Pro-Alliance (to the extreme) and Anti-Cerberus to the same degree.
redbaron76 wrote... In ME 3 Cerberus is enemy. So in ME 2 Shepard was woking for or with enemy. Last time I checked working with enemy is a high treason, capital crime punishable by death. SO anybody justifying Shepard working with cerberus as not treason is either a five year old child or to stubborn to admit that their pro cerberus stance is all wrong.They blame VS for Horizon when the whole scene was engenered by TIM of Cerberus for his own purpose. People lets face it Shepard was working for the wrong side in ME2 that is why my Shepard blew up Collector Base. That is why my Shepard cut all contact with Cerberus and passed on all Cerberus information to Alliance HQ, hopefully they will find it in their hearts not to excute my Shepard for working with terrorists. AS to VS I hope we get a spectacular scene where the whole Horizon scene is mulled over and my Shepard and Ashley can kiss and make up and then go kill some Reapers, to save the galaxy for the third time.
Siansonea II wrote... Speaking as Shepard, I'll take my chances being loyal to the Alliance. I've spent most of my adult life in the Alliance military, if I didn't have faith in them, I wouldn't have joined them in the first place, or I wouldn't have stayed. The Alliance helped me stop Sovereign, I couldn't have done it without the Fifth Fleet. So yeah, Cerberus can go to Hell, I'm not keeping their secrets or protecting their people. If Jack, Zaeed or Kasumi want to settle things in a confrontational way, I invite them to try. Their loyalty has never been mine.
And if the Alliance can't keep sensitive information under wraps, well, then I guess it's out there for others to find. Seems like the Alliance did a pretty good job of keeping the VS's activities on the down low, at least if you believe the Illusive Man. In any case, Cerberus will at least get the message that I'm Not Working For You, the Shadow Broker at this point is not a concern (only after talking to Liara does his name come up, and that's after Horizon) and the Hegemony? *shrug*
I have a couple of questions for you two (and anyone else who would like to chime in) Yes or No (aloborate if you prefer)
1. Do you believe "If you are not part of the solution.Than you are part of the problem."
2. Do you believe: Whatever one decides to defend (protect and support.) Must be "Defended from all threats - Foreign and Domestic."
What I'm trying to understand here is,How is it -- after playing Mass Effect 2, that the Alliance has any credibilty to you lot.After all we learn and here about the Alliance (Post-Battle of the Citadel) from Jacob Taylor, Jeff "Joker" Moreo, Engineers Kenneth Donnely & Gabriella "Gabby" Daniels, David Anderson and the Colonist of Horizon.If you don't remember what they said.Here's a laundry list of it.
Jacob: General public never knew you were dead, or heard the real story of the Battle of the Citadel.Did you know that they used you on recruitment ads? You were the human ideal for like six months.Then they replaced you with a composite image they invented.Guess you didn't focus test right.Perfect example of humanity, and they still dumped you.www.youtube.com/watch
Joker: It all fell apart without you Commander.Everything you stirred up, the Council just wanted it gone.The team was broken up, records sealed, and I was grounded.The Alliance took away the one thing that mattered to me.Hell yeah I joined Cerberus!www.youtube.com/watch
Ken & Gabby: After you died, Anderson lost political clout.The Council backslide on the Reaper menace.They discounted Soveriegn as an isolated threat, as a single -- Which was bullsh-t! They said your warnings of greater danger were mistaken or delusional.We lost respect for Alliance leadership.We need to fight the real enemy, and only Cerberus seemed to be doing that.
Engineer Donelly: Once you were gone, the Alliance descended like vultures, tearing apart everything you said.I was very public with my defense for you.I didn't hold back.
Engineer Daniels: That's an undrstatement.If Kenneth wasn't such a talented engineer, they'd have court marshaled him for insubordination.
Engineer Donelly: But it got me noticed by The Illusive Man. He made me an offer, and here I am. www.youtube.com/watch
Lilith: People out here don't trust the Alliance (Ash) Its nothing personal.
Sian you say that Shepard is not a god.But the way you and red, go on about your "eternal devotion" to the Alliance Command.And how you say that you have "FAITH" in them".Makes it appear as though you have no problem viewing that institution as a god.
The Systems Alliance is the represenative body of Earth and all human colonies in Citadel Space.As it is backed by Earth's most powerful nations, the Alliance has become humanity's military, exploratory, and economic spearhead.
It came into being from an "us vs them" mentality.It was created as a "United-Human Front". Earth's eighteen largest nations drafted and ratified the Systems Alliance charter, establishing a representative political body to expand and defend human territory. Shortly thereafter, the various nations of Earth pooled their military resources to create the Systems Alliance Military.
This is their reason for being.And they have been found wanting... After what goes down in ME 2.My Commander Shepard is of the opinion that the Systems Alliance has lost next to all credibilty.My Shepard -- Is not "loyal' to any person or institution.He is "LOYAL" to his 'Principles' .
To answer my own two questions.Yes times two.If the Alliance and Citadel Council are aiding the enemy, (by way of being misguided, inept, short-sighted and preoccupied with lesser concerns) than they are the "enemy". Shepard has tried to reason with them.To no avail.At some point, they are just going to have to get out of my way.Or get run over...
Very true, but I felt that way with every reunion I had with my former team member. Each of them had lackluster responses to Shepard's return. As for their lack of interest in the colonist abductions, I don't blame the VS for that - it's not his/her decision. I suppose they could leave their service in the Alliance, but they're Alliance soldiers through and through. [edit] Regardless, I was only referring to the anger they felt, that I understood it.
Yeah people take Sheopard's return remarkably well, al things considered. Though Tali's response on Freedom's Progress was pretty good. Much closer to what I thought the VS should have responded.
As to the colony abductions: I wasn't talking about going off with Shepard, I'm talking about asking questions like "What were those things?" "How come you didn't get stung" "What does "assuming direct control" mean?
To me, there was too much anger, not enough wonder. And certainly not enough curiosity.
Haha, I actually prefer Wrex's response most of all. He doesn't question my return, but he seems happiest to see Shepard.
Oh, I see. True. I'd say our VS he has a case of tunnel vision.
VS: Mission accomplished, sir! Reporting for debriefing. Anderson: Ah, excellent! What did you uncover about Shepard and the missing colonies? VS: Well, sir, I can confirm that Shepard is alive. Anderson: Okay, well, I already knew that because Shepard came to visit me here on the Citadel at my own invitation. Didn't you get my email? VS: Oh, well... I can confirm that Shepard is working with Cerberus at least! Anderson: Uh... again, I already knew that. Shepard told me as much himself, and he explained that his alliance with Cerberus was only out of necessity. Did you uncover evidence to the contrary? VS: Well... no. I mean, Shepard told me that he was only using them to investigate the colony attacks but... Anderson: So then you uncovered evidence that Cerberus is controlling him somehow? VS: Err, well... no. I mean, I kinda flipped out and stormed off as soon as he name-dropped Cerberus and didn't really give him a chance to explain... Anderson: So Shepard freely admitted to working with Cerberus? VS: Err, yes. In retrospect, sir, he actually seemed quite up-front about it. Garrus even... Anderson: Wait, Garrus was there too? VS: Yes, sir. He seemed to be quite convinced that Cerberus wasn't the enemy. Anderson:*sigh* Well, did you at least find out anything about the missing colonies? VS: I did, sir. Shepard seemed to think the Collectors are responsible for the colony attacks and that they're working for the Reapers... Anderson: .....Again, already knew that, but proceed. VS: ...um, but I think Cerberus might actually be behind them, sir. Anderson: Interesting. I assume you have evidence to support this? VS: Well... no. It's just my suspicion, sir. After the aliens attacked Horizon, I... Anderson: Wait. They actually attacked Horizon? Well, you must have seen them then! VS: Err, well... no, actually. I got stung by some sort of alien insect and spent the entire attack frozen in stasis behind some crates. All I saw was their ship flying away after Shepard fought them off. Anderson: Shepard actually engaged them? VS: Yes, sir. He saved half the colony from being abducted, myself included. Anderson:*facepalm* So Shepard is working with Cerberus, Shepard fought off the Collectors and saved the colony... and you think that Cerberus are secretly working with the Collectors? So you think that Cerberus is using Shepard to fight themselves? VS: Err... it seemed to make sense at the time, sir. Anderson: Well, did you at least acquire any data from Shepard? Collector scans? Weapon specs? He must have all sorts of intel regarding the Collectors if he successfully engaged them. Perhaps even some countermeasures we could use to protect ourselves. VS: Um... no. Nothing. Anderson: Wasn't he willing to cooperate? VS: Actually, he wanted to take me back to his ship. Anderson: .....So then, what was the problem? VS: Umm......... I kinda called him a traitor and stormed off. Anderson:*facepalm* So let me get this straight. Shepard fought off the Collectors, saved the colony, rescued your own dumb ass and then offered to let you inspect a classified Cerberus warship and share valuable data about advanced alien technology... and your response was to call him a traitor and walk away without so much as a "thank you"? VS: .......... Anderson: So... you basically came back empty-handed. Am I correct? VS: .................... Anderson: Useless. Just... leave. That'll be all. VS:*salutes* Anderson: If I were you, I'd be thinking of some way to make this up to Shepard. You owe him that much for saving your ass. VS: Yes, sir! *turnsto leave* Anderson:*shouts* And it better not be some half-assed email apology![/quote] [/quote] Incredible.
Where's that post of the hypothetical conversation between Ash and Anderson, post Horizon? I need to read that again...
I hope you thank me for searching through this thread for this one:
JKoopman wrote...
VS: Mission accomplished, sir! Reporting for debriefing. Anderson: Ah, excellent! What did you uncover about Shepard and the missing colonies? VS: Well, sir, I can confirm that Shepard is alive. Anderson: Okay, well, I already knew that because Shepard came to visit me here on the Citadel at my own invitation. Didn't you get my email? VS: Oh, well... I can confirm that Shepard is working with Cerberus at least! Anderson: Uh... again, I already knew that. Shepard told me as much himself, and he explained that his alliance with Cerberus was only out of necessity. Did you uncover evidence to the contrary? VS: Well... no. I mean, Shepard told me that he was only using them to investigate the colony attacks but... Anderson: So then you uncovered evidence that Cerberus is controlling him somehow? VS: Err, well... no. I mean, I kinda flipped out and stormed off as soon as he name-dropped Cerberus and didn't really give him a chance to explain... Anderson: So Shepard freely admitted to working with Cerberus? VS: Err, yes. In retrospect, sir, he actually seemed quite up-front about it. Garrus even... Anderson: Wait, Garrus was there too? VS: Yes, sir. He seemed to be quite convinced that Cerberus wasn't the enemy. Anderson:*sigh* Well, did you at least find out anything about the missing colonies? VS: I did, sir. Shepard seemed to think the Collectors are responsible for the colony attacks and that they're working for the Reapers... Anderson: .....Again, already knew that, but proceed. VS: ...um, but I think Cerberus might actually be behind them, sir. Anderson: Interesting. I assume you have evidence to support this? VS: Well... no. It's just my suspicion, sir. After the aliens attacked Horizon, I... Anderson: Wait. They actually attacked Horizon? Well, you must have seen them then! VS: Err, well... no, actually. I got stung by some sort of alien insect and spent the entire attack frozen in stasis behind some crates. All I saw was their ship flying away after Shepard fought them off. Anderson: Shepard actually engaged them? VS: Yes, sir. He saved half the colony from being abducted, myself included. Anderson:*facepalm* So Shepard is working with Cerberus, Shepard fought off the Collectors and saved the colony... and you think that Cerberus are secretly working with the Collectors? So you think that Cerberus is using Shepard to fight themselves? VS: Err... it seemed to make sense at the time, sir. Anderson: Well, did you at least acquire any data from Shepard? Collector scans? Weapon specs? He must have all sorts of intel regarding the Collectors if he successfully engaged them. Perhaps even some countermeasures we could use to protect ourselves. VS: Um... no. Nothing. Anderson: Wasn't he willing to cooperate? VS: Actually, he wanted to take me back to his ship. Anderson: .....So then, what was the problem? VS: Umm......... I kinda called him a traitor and stormed off. Anderson:*facepalm* So let me get this straight. Shepard fought off the Collectors, saved the colony, rescued your own dumb ass and then offered to let you inspect a classified Cerberus warship and share valuable data about advanced alien technology... and your response was to call him a traitor and walk away without so much as a "thank you"? VS: .......... Anderson: So... you basically came back empty-handed. Am I correct? VS: .................... Anderson: Useless. Just... leave. That'll be all. VS:*salutes* Anderson: If I were you, I'd be thinking of some way to make this up to Shepard. You owe him that much for saving your ass. VS: Yes, sir! *turnsto leave* Anderson:*shouts* And it better not be some half-assed email apology!
The VS does indeed have tunnel vision as soon as they hear about Cerberus nothing else matters: not that you are alive, not that they haven't seen Garrus in years, not who attacked the colony, not how you drove them off (or were immune to the seeker swarms - thank you iakus) or even that you just saved their life again.
Not asking about the seeker swarms is a really serious problem as most Shepards would share the technology without reservation and it could save a lot of civilian lives.
Being not a great fan of the 'bad writing' argument because we can only respond to what is presented not what the writers may, or may not, have wished us to get from the scene; the VS reminds me of one of those old Cold War warriors who blamed everything on the other side. This to me has certain advantages as an analogy but the problem is it took decades for the warriors to become like that and the VS as an absolute maximum has been fighting Cerberus ~ three years.
This again is where it would be helpful to understand why they are so fixated on Cerberus - if they have spent the last three years in constant operations against Cerberus wading through the results of terrifying experiments and burying friends and squadmates it makes sense otherwise....
Regarding trusting the Alliance my Shepard would tend to agree with Joker's axiom that 'I don't trust anyone who makes more than I do' (apologies for the probable misquote). The Alliance is a big organisation and like any big organisation it has its share of unsung heroes, angels, demons and empire builders - which one fits your Shepard is of course entirely up to you.
Personally I interpret the Alliance's lack of action in ME2 as a combination of lack of resources, remember the Alliance is hideously overstretched in ME2 not helped by the Council's victory cruise and various pr stunts, bureaucratic inertia and a 'not my problem; attitude. After all intervening in the Terminus for the Alliance is like asking the modern day First World to intervene in Somalia (sure it's tragic but we need those ships elsewhere, and we have budgets to balance and we can't be seen to be expansionist as the Council races are already worried about that and well is it ultimately our problem after all those dumb hicks chose to leave our protection didn't they?)
Real world disclaimer: this is the attitude of a hypothetical Alliance pen pusher and does not represent my attitude towards the decade long civil war labelled as Somalia on maps. *Phew*
As for the hypothetical dialogue between the VS and Anderson whilst I find it highly entertaining it would never happen - not because it couldn't but because Anderson is a reasonable authority figure now if you replace Anderson with Udina the entire conversation becomes a lot more plausible because Udina really is that much of a jerk. I'll have to to try my own go at this dialogue but something for another post as this is already approaching tl;dr
paul165 wrote... Being not a great fan of the 'bad writing' argument because we can only respond to what is presented not what the writers may, or may not, have wished us to get from the scene; the VS reminds me of one of those old Cold War warriors who blamed everything on the other side. This to me has certain advantages as an analogy but the problem is it took decades for the warriors to become like that and the VS as an absolute maximum has been fighting Cerberus ~ three years.
This again is where it would be helpful to understand why they are so fixated on Cerberus - if they have spent the last three years in constant operations against Cerberus wading through the results of terrifying experiments and burying friends and squadmates it makes sense otherwise....
And this is precisely why it was bad writing, we have no clue why the fixation. It goes beyond all reason unless there's something else going on that we don't know about. In which case we should have been told, at the very least that there's something else going on that we don't know about.
As for the hypothetical dialogue between the VS and Anderson whilst I find it highly entertaining it would never happen - not because it couldn't but because Anderson is a reasonable authority figure now if you replace Anderson with Udina the entire conversation becomes a lot more plausible because Udina really is that much of a jerk. I'll have to to try my own go at this dialogue but something for another post as this is already approaching tl;dr
I'm a huge VS fan, especially Ash, and I found that dialogue HI-larious. The fact that she's talking to Anderson, even an OOC Anderson, is irrelevant. It could just as easily have been Udina, the Council, Hackett, or Bob the Alliance Special Forces Commander. All that is important is that she's talking to an interested third party, who was not present onHorizon, and trying to describe what happned. And it's there that it shows just how ridiculous and irrational the VS acted. How out of character, they were, how myopic their view, how forgetful they were of teh past. It's funny because it's true. I find that the best kind of humor.
Honestly, that whole post is a load of bollocks. Ash is getting the blame for Anderson screwing her over.
1. It refers to the VS, not just to Ash.
2. iakus wanted to read it, so I posted it for him.
3. I still find it rather funny since it is suppose to be, you know.... a joke? (unless VS fans can't take a joke, it's hard to say from reading this thread sometimes)
Well, I'm glad you were all amused by the dialog, because its only value is as a joke. It certainly has no other value other than perhaps to demonstrate that it's author has the emotional maturity of a 12-year-old. Ashley had the nerve to stand up to Shepard, so naturally she's just a "stupid b¡tch". No, it couldn't be that the player character might actually need to take a look at herself and reevaluate her actions. No, it couldn't be that. It's Shepard!!!!!! <_<
Well, I'm glad you were all amused by the dialog, because its only value is as a joke. It certainly has no other value other than to demonstrate that it's author has the emotional maturity of a 12-year-old. Ashley had the nerve to stand up to Shepard, so naturally she's just a "stupid b¡tch". No, it couldn't be that the player character might actually need to take a look at herself and reevaluate her actions. No, it couldn't be that. It's Shepard!!!!!! <_<
Actions which I'd like to remind you - and which you have convienently ignored throughout your numerous pages of arguements that you've had with other individuals in this thread - that the player has no say whatsoever in any capacity to doing or not doing in the "Mass Effect 2" video game. <_<
Well, I'm glad you were all amused by the dialog, because its only value is as a joke. It certainly has no other value other than to demonstrate that it's author has the emotional maturity of a 12-year-old. Ashley had the nerve to stand up to Shepard, so naturally she's just a "stupid b¡tch". No, it couldn't be that the player character might actually need to take a look at herself and reevaluate her actions. No, it couldn't be that. It's Shepard!!!!!! <_<
Actions which I'd like to remind you - and which you have convienently ignored throughout your numerous pages of arguements that you've had with other individuals in this thread - that the player has no say whatsoever in any capacity to doing or not doing in the "Mass Effect 2" video game. <_<
Right. Because the game not giving you the option to do something means that whatever the game DOES let you do is automatically The Right Thing To Do. Is that about right?
Hmmm... In that joke exchange between the Virmire Survivor and Anderson. Anderson neglected to mention that Shepard (and crew) were also responsible for getting those Alliance supplied "lasers" functional, which was supposedly the official reason that the VS was on Horizon.
Hmmm... In that joke exchange between the Virmire Survivor and Anderson. Anderson neglected to mention that Shepard (and crew) were also responsible for getting those Alliance supplied "lasers" functional, which was supposedly the official reason that the VS was on Horizon.
Yeah, how about that Alliance technology, huh? I suppose we're going to blame the VS for that too?
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