1476 réponses à ce sujet

[AVPen]

Saberchic wrote...

Badpie wrote...

I don't need things to be frosty between the Ash or Kaidan and Shepard, but I wouldn't mind some awkwardness for the first conversation or so.

Horizon basically went like this:

VS: WTF?
Shep: Eh.

It was so badly written. It should have been at least:

VS: WTF?
Shep: I KNOW. EXPLANATION.
VS: Oddly skeptical yet trusting!

If you chose the middle response, you did give an explanation of what happened. I think the VS was just completely blindsided by Shep's appearance.

Agreed, which is why I posted this exchange a few pages back:  

AVPen wrote...

Kaidan: "Why didn't you try to contact me?! Why didn't you let me know you were alive?!"

Shepard: "Hey, not my choice! I spent the last two years nearly dead and in some kind of coma while Cerberus rebuilt me against my will and...."

Kaidan: "Wait........ you're with Cerberus now?!?!" 

Garrus: *facepalms, "Aw crap, this meeting is gonna suck."

Modifié par AVPen, 05 août 2011 - 04:09 .

[ubermensch007]

Siansonea II wrote... I stopped listening to you after you said "Shepard is a god", which is
why I didn't respond to your nightmarishly formatted TL;DR post.

ubermensch007 wrote...
*snip*

Siansonea II, redbaron 76 -- Err... Are you going to respond to my  'Post' on Page 27 of this thread?

Nope.
Your posts are beyond convoluted. And once you started in with Shepard's Divine Right BS, well, that's when I decided that discourse with you was, as they say, a waste of my time.


You know... I looked up the word "convoluted" (though I already knew what it means)   Con-Vo-Lut-Ed
1. (esp. of an argument, story, or sentence) Extremely complex and difficult to follow
2. Intricately folded, twisted, or coiled

After reading these defintions, hearing you say that of my post; almost sounds like a compliment

Now concerning my "Shepard is a god" comment.For all intents and purposes in the Mass Effect Universe Shepard is nothingless than a "living god".He is set apart.A God among men. Type of figure.That does not mean that he is beyond questioning.That does not mean that I think people should just defer their judgements to him.

You don't want to respond to my post, you are free to choose not too.However I shall continue to respond to what you write.(If it peaks my interest) Especially if your going to continue to say Dumb Sh!t - Crazy Sh!t like (with how you believe that)

"Two years is a long time."

Eh?! ... Two years is a long time? What are you -- A salarian or something?!  I've had  underwear longer than that.Two years is a long time.Honestly...<_<

And... "A  Spectre is a thug."

Really?! So I guess by your logic.The Police, F.B.I. Agents - C.I.A. Operatives.All those who protect and serve their host nation and its citizens.All those who enforce the law.Are thugs?

For clarity's sake, here's what the Codex says of Spectres:

Spectres are agents from the Office of Special Tactics and Reconnaissance and answer only to the Citadel Council.They are elite military operatives, granted the authority to deal with threats to peace and stability in whatever way they deem necessary.They operate independently or in groups of two or three. Some are
empathetic peacekeepers, resolving disputes through diplomacy. Others are cold-blooded assassins, ruthlessly dispatching problem individuals. All get the job done, one way or another, often operating outside of the bounds of galactic law.

The Spectres were founded after the salarians joined the Council. For many years, they operated in secrecy, as back-room "problem solvers". Only after the Krogan Rebellions did their activities become publicized. Assignment of a Spectre is less contentious than military deployment, but makes it clear that the
Council is concerned about a situation.Spectres[/b] are agents entrusted with extraordinary authority by the Citadel Council, including the power of life and death over the inhabitants of the galaxy. They form an elite group selected from a number of different species, and their primary responsibility is to preserve galactic stability by whatever means necessary. Though they are generally considered as being above the law and have complete discretion as to the methods used to accomplish their mission, an individual's status as a Spectre can be revoked by the Council in a case of a gross misconduct. Spectres work either alone or in small groups according to nature of a
particular task and to their personal preference. "Spectre" is a syllabic abbreviation of Special Tactics and Reconnaissance.

And I see that you still haven't introduced your "Pot to the kettle"
Sianonsea II wrote... So we're back to condescending dictionary definitions? Super!

The only one I see being "condescending" around these parts, is you.What with how you keep refering to others as "kids"  "children"  "immaturity" and your generation B.S..Are you a class-A Hacker or something? Because if your not.I really don't see how you could know the demographics of the forumites on this thread.

I think the reason that you gave for not responding to my post on Page 27 of this thread is a cop-out.You have decided to do with me - What you did with whywhywhywhy.When he was asking you,"Why haven't you responded to his post?" You gave some  cockamamie story then and your doing it now.All I was asking of you.Is for you to help me understand your position with being Soooooooooooooo Pro-Alliance and in the VS corner better.And you refuse to do that.You refuse to answer my "VALID" Questions.

You say,"Ooh...That dude said Shepard is a god.I'm not talking to him anymore.I better back away slowly.Whoa... I don't know about you Sian, but that seems like a pretty immature reaction on your part.Even though I disagree with alot of what you say.You sometimes make some good points.(Here and there)

But you know what Sianonesa II -- I see now that: Your full of sh!t... Go wipe your ass!

Modifié par ubermensch007, 05 août 2011 - 04:44 .

[Saberchic]

AVPen wrote...

Saberchic wrote...

Badpie wrote...

I don't need things to be frosty between the Ash or Kaidan and Shepard, but I wouldn't mind some awkwardness for the first conversation or so.

Horizon basically went like this:

VS: WTF?
Shep: Eh.

It was so badly written. It should have been at least:

VS: WTF?
Shep: I KNOW. EXPLANATION.
VS: Oddly skeptical yet trusting!

If you chose the middle response, you did give an explanation of what happened. I think the VS was just completely blindsided by Shep's appearance.

Agreed, which is why I posted this exchange a few pages back:  

AVPen wrote...

Kaidan: "Why didn't you try to contact me?! Why didn't you let me know you were alive?!"

Shepard: "Hey, not my choice! I spent the last two years nearly dead and in some kind of coma while Cerberus rebuilt me against my will and...."

Kaidan: "Wait........ you're with Cerberus now?!?!" 

Garrus: *facepalms, "Aw crap, this meeting is gonna suck."

Sorry, must have missed it with all the bickering going on. Some of these posts are epically long.

I think some players get pissed that Shep does explain and that the VS doesn't join them. I can understand that the player might feel bitter/betrayed after all the VS and them went through together, regardless of a romance or not. However, they should understand that the VS seems genuinely shocked, and so they reacted pretty badly.

I know I was miffed when Kaidan called me a traitor. I felt like after all we went through, he couldn't go on a little faith? But then I realized that, wait a minute, I've been gone for 2 years. A lot has happened that I'm probably not aware of. I don't blame them for being wary. (Ok, my renegade might, but he's really a total hard-ass. )

[Siansonea]

@ubermensch007: Here’s a new word for you to look up: whack. Because that post was straight-up whack, yo.

Also:
• It wasn’t a compliment. At all.
• TMI about the underwear.
• Trying to debate the nature of a situation when you can’t even agree on the basic parameters of the situation is beyond pointless. We’re really not even speaking the same language here. Shepard is a god, indeed. ::eyeroll:: If that’s your position, then nothing I say can possibly matter. Shepard will just smite the VS with his divine wrath. Blah blah blah.

And as for your last line—way to keep it classy.

[Iakus]

Saberchic wrote...

Sorry, must have missed it with all the bickering going on. Some of these posts are epically long.

I think some players get pissed that Shep does explain and that the VS doesn't join them. I can understand that the player might feel bitter/betrayed after all the VS and them went through together, regardless of a romance or not. However, they should understand that the VS seems genuinely shocked, and so they reacted pretty badly.

I know I was miffed when Kaidan called me a traitor. I felt like after all we went through, he couldn't go on a little faith? But then I realized that, wait a minute, I've been gone for 2 years. A lot has happened that I'm probably not aware of. I don't blame them for being wary. (Ok, my renegade might, but he's really a total hard-ass. )

This is true.  It's quite understandable that the VS can't join Shepard this time around.  And it also makes sense that there may be or have been stuff going on that Shepard isn't aware of.

But it sure might have been nice to learn some of it, to give Horizon some context.

That's largely what made LOTSB so great.  It took Liara's obsession with bringing down the shadow Broker, her personality change, and gave it meaning.  After playing that, I came to understand how and why she changed.  I could appreciate the work she was doing on Illium.  It made sense now.

We have no such context on Horizon, just vague lines about "rumors" of Shepard working for Cerberus.  Hurtful accusations, investigations without investigating.  It's completely surreal to me.  There's no meaning, no contecxt, no point besides a wave to the players that yes, this character makes a cameo.  Followed by a big middle finger to the fans of said character.

[Saberchic]

iakus wrote...

This is true.  It's quite understandable that the VS can't join Shepard this time around.  And it also makes sense that there may be or have been stuff going on that Shepard isn't aware of.

But it sure might have been nice to learn some of it, to give Horizon some context.

That's largely what made LOTSB so great.  It took Liara's obsession with bringing down the shadow Broker, her personality change, and gave it meaning.  After playing that, I came to understand how and why she changed.  I could appreciate the work she was doing on Illium.  It made sense now.

We have no such context on Horizon, just vague lines about "rumors" of Shepard working for Cerberus.  Hurtful accusations, investigations without investigating.  It's completely surreal to me.  There's no meaning, no contecxt, no point besides a wave to the players that yes, this character makes a cameo.  Followed by a big middle finger to the fans of said character.

Honestly, I expect this to be rectified in ME3. I'm hoping that we get a lot more story on what's been going on with them. I really want to know. And since the VS has been made a Spectre, I'm sure a lot has happened to them. since we got LotSB with Liara, I want something comparable for the VS.

I'm just hoping that the romance and non-romance paths are both treated the same. I don't want to see a non-romanced Shep and VS just go, "meh. whatever" and act like Horizin never happened. I'm sure there are plenty of Sheps who developed close friendship bonds with the VS, and they should get a chance to discuss it with them too.

[in2seconds]

I'm also sensing a critical emotional point for characters. For example, there is something going on with the turians and it concerns ashley (assuming she is your VS because her grandfather surrendered to turians, so therefore above all aliens, she hates turians the most), there's a point where she will question shep about trust issues and whatnot and then like dragon age where they can be charmed or intimated to stay where in this case change their views or forever doubt shep's decision about rallying and gathering the whole universe.

Modifié par in2seconds, 05 août 2011 - 06:37 .

[ubermensch007]

In the  Liara fans: keep your love blue and true! Thread. I asked this question:

"If BioWare never released the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC.How would you all feel about Liara T'Soni then?

And would this thread even exist?

And so far, I have gotten at least one good response to it.To bring this all back to the Virmire Survivor and the release date of Mass Effect 3.I got to tell you.

In April of this year.I still fancied Operations Cheif Ashley Williams a GREAT DEAL -- And wanted nothing else but for my 'canon' Shep to resume his relationship with her once more.

They say, "Absence makes the heart grow fonder.Which of course means: The lack of something increases the desire for it.

It is also said that: "Time heals all wounds." What I have found concerning my thoughts and feelings towards the VS is that these sayings don't hold much water with me.

How I felt about Ash in April and how I now feel about her 'now' in August -- After talking to others about all this in nightnblu's thread and (somewhat) over here as well.I don't hate her.But I don't want much to do with her at this point.And by the time that ME 3 actually comes out.Seven months from now...I don't see my opinion of her getting better -- only Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar worse!!

I don't want this to happen...But what can I do about it?! BioWare needs to release a Commander Shepard & Virmire Survivor DLC to the same quality of LOTSB PRONTO...If they don't -- I think that they are going to be responsible for ruining a good portion of many peoples expeirence of playing ME 3.

IMO, what they are doing is worse than how fans of Harry Potter had to wait and see where Professor Severus Snape loyalties truly  lied.After reading HBP.That was understandable...Saving the VS all for ME 3.Is STUPID and CRUEL... <_<

Post Script: It has also been said that, "Time is the healer of all necessary evils." Hopefully Shepard will be able to say this to the VS.Given how they feel about his affiliation with Cerberus...

Modifié par ubermensch007, 05 août 2011 - 06:45 .

[Saberchic]

ubermensch007 wrote...

In the  Liara fans: keep your love blue and true! Thread. I asked this question:

"If BioWare never released the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC.How would you all feel about Liara T'Soni then?

And would this thread even exist?

And so far, I have gotten at least one good response to it.To bring this all back to the Virmire Survivor and the release date of Mass Effect 3.I got to tell you.

In April of this year.I still fancied Operations Cheif Ashley Williams a GREAT DEAL -- And wanted nothing else but for my 'canon' Shep to resume his relationship with her once more.

They say, "Absence makes the heart grow fonder.Which of course means: The lack of something increases the desire for it.

It is also said that: "Time heals all wounds." What I have found concerning my thoughts and feelings towards the VS is that these sayings don't hold much water with me.

How I felt about Ash in April and how I now feel about her 'now' in August -- After talking to others about all this in nightnblu's thread and (somewhat) over here as well.I don't hate her.But I don't want much to do with her at this point.And by the time that ME 3 actually comes out.Seven months from now...I don't see my opinion of her getting better -- only Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar worse!!

I don't want this to happen...But what can I do about it?! BioWare needs to release a Commander Shepard & Virmire Survivor DLC to the same quality of LOTSB PRONTO...If they don't -- I think that they are going to be responsible for ruining a good portion of many peoples expeirence of playing ME 3.

IMO, what they are doing is worse than how fans of Harry Potter had to wait and see where Professor Severus Snape loyalties truly  lied.After reading HBP.That was understandable...Saving the VS all for ME 3.Is STUPID and CRUEL... <_<

Post Script: It has also been said that, "Time is the healer of all necessary evils." Hopefully Shepard will be able to say this to the VS.Given how they feel about his affiliation with Cerberus...

I think people are becoming impatient. I also think there doesn't need to be a VS DLC.

ME2 is the middle of the trilogy. Just because we didn't get everything squared away with the VS in the 2nd game doesn't mean their storyline or our games will be ruined.

I'm not sure what the Liara post has to do with the VS? Are you saying that Liara is getting more love because of it and that this love will overshadow the VS? I'm sorry. I'm a bit confused. Can you clarify?

edited to add: I'm not sure how this has anything to do with restoring trust with the VS.

Modifié par Saberchic, 05 août 2011 - 07:53 .

[Made Nightwing]

ubermensch007 wrote...

In the  Liara fans: keep your love blue and true! Thread. I asked this question:

"If BioWare never released the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC.How would you all feel about Liara T'Soni then?

And would this thread even exist?

And so far, I have gotten at least one good response to it.To bring this all back to the Virmire Survivor and the release date of Mass Effect 3.I got to tell you.

In April of this year.I still fancied Operations Cheif Ashley Williams a GREAT DEAL -- And wanted nothing else but for my 'canon' Shep to resume his relationship with her once more.

They say, "Absence makes the heart grow fonder.Which of course means: The lack of something increases the desire for it.

It is also said that: "Time heals all wounds." What I have found concerning my thoughts and feelings towards the VS is that these sayings don't hold much water with me.

How I felt about Ash in April and how I now feel about her 'now' in August -- After talking to others about all this in nightnblu's thread and (somewhat) over here as well.I don't hate her.But I don't want much to do with her at this point.And by the time that ME 3 actually comes out.Seven months from now...I don't see my opinion of her getting better -- only Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar worse!!

I don't want this to happen...But what can I do about it?! BioWare needs to release a Commander Shepard & Virmire Survivor DLC to the same quality of LOTSB PRONTO...If they don't -- I think that they are going to be responsible for ruining a good portion of many peoples expeirence of playing ME 3.

IMO, what they are doing is worse than how fans of Harry Potter had to wait and see where Professor Severus Snape loyalties truly  lied.After reading HBP.That was understandable...Saving the VS all for ME 3.Is STUPID and CRUEL... <_<

Post Script: It has also been said that, "Time is the healer of all necessary evils." Hopefully Shepard will be able to say this to the VS.Given how they feel about his affiliation with Cerberus...

I have always taken the position that you shouldn't let what anyone else says or thinks of a character ruin them for you. If that had been the case, then I would hate a great many of the characters in Mass Effect.

I honestly have no clue why knightblu creates those forums. He's not an Ashley fan trying to understand the character, in fact he strongly expresses his negative opinion of her, and dismisses arguments against this opinion with wall of text posts that get slightly tiring to read after a while. He's either got way too much free time on his hands, or he's a very subtle troll. Doesn't matter, what he says shouldn't affect your opinion of Ash. You'll find that being a fan of any character is far more enjoyable than hating them.

On the topic of a DLC, it'd be too little, too late. I'd rather Bioware focus all their energy for Ashley/Kaidan on Mass Effect 3.

[ubermensch007]

So far two here disagree with the need of a VS DLC.Your entilted to your opinion of course.But my reason for asking for such a thing is b/c i think it is a terrible idea for BioWare to use ME 3 in its entirety, to patch up things with the VS in the middle of the Reaper War and potential galactic extinction.

There is "seedtime and harvest time." A DLC would allow for the groundwork to be laid for either decideing to "Kiss and makeup or tell them "Your dead to me!"

Saberchic wrote... I think people are becoming impatient. I also think there doesn't need to be a VS DLC.

ME2 is the middle of the trilogy. Just because we didn't get everything squared away with the VS in the 2nd game doesn't mean their storyline or our games will be ruined.

I'm not sure what the Liara post has to do with the VS? Are you saying that Liara is getting more love
because of it and that this love will overshadow the VS? I'm sorry. I'm a bit confused. Can you clarify?

IMPATIENT!?! Not to come across as being hostile or anything.But for the record. If you have a ME L.I. Who is it? I don't know the statistics or anything, but I'm pretty sure that most people did not L.I. Liara in ME 1.Maybe I'm wrong there.But as many options as were available in ME 2.Those who romanced a human from ME 1.And was looking forward to pick things up from where they left off.We got the short-end of the stick (as they say) in Mass Effect 2. <_<

In a way I'm not that bummed out about that.For it gave me a sense of what soldiers in World War 2 or any other overseas conflict must have felt like being away from their sweetheart.Longing to be reunited with them.

Oh and I definetly think that Liara (appears to be) is getting more love (favortism) from BioWare.And for the life of me.I don't understand why.But I do have a few things to say about that.That I shall speak of in my next Blog Post.But it would be Off-Topic here. As for "overshadowing the Vs" Yes -- Liara becomes the Shadow Broker -- alledgedly Kaidan or Ashley is deemed good enough to be Spectres.Which in some ways I find to be laughable, absurd and preposterous.But once again -- This is not the thread to get into that.Personally I think Jacob Taylor has far more of a better resume and pedigree to be considered for Spectre status.But that's something that I shall speak of in his Fan Thread.

Instead of kaidan and Ashley being treated like individuals with their own career paths.They are being treated as though they are interchangeable.And I don't like it.

One of the things I like so much about the Shepard VS relationship in ME 2, is that while some see them as having two very different perspectives during the story.I do not.Consider this...During the Prologue, The VS does not see Shepard die.Shepard does not see the VS live.So many people here seem to sympathize and empathize with the Virmire Survivors perspective.But look at things from "My Commander Shepard's eyes" for a few moments.

President Ronald Regan has a great saying,"Believe half of what you see.And none of what you hear." This was my mantra while playing ME 2.My Shepard listened to what everyone had to say.But didn't believe either TIM, Anderson , Joker or anyone else who told him "Oh yeah.Ashley's still alive.She's doing good.You'll see her soon enough.Hold your horses." <_< I was like,"Okay -- Un huh...Until I saw Ashley with my own two eyes and heard her voice.Touched her.Held her.I wasn't all that sure that she survived.It wasn't very difficult for me to believe that Cerberus would clone my dead lover in order to make me happy.So when I was on Horizon -- In my mind. I ran toward Ash ready to embrace her in my arms.And she goes and slaps me in the face instead.  And I just could not understand why she was so angry with me.From my perspective.Next to everything she said to me.I could throw back in her face.Every one of your crewmates is so surprised to see Shepard alive.Well -- I was just as surprised to see them alive.Shepard didn't see any of them survive the destruction of the Normandy SR-1.But they all act like Shepard is an anomaly.They all act like Shepard needs to explain himself and not them as well.

It's weird man.Its weird.

Edit:

Made Nightwing wrote... On the topic of a DLC, it'd be too little, too late. I'd rather Bioware
focus all their energy for Ashley/Kaidan on Mass Effect 3.

How can you say it would be "too little, too late" ? Mass Effect 3 isn't coming out for like seven months.That's more than enough time to make a quality DLC.And it's not just what others say about these characters that is affecting my view of them.It's what I'm saying about them and or speculating about thier intentions, reasoning and conduct.That's starting to sort of do to me as they say in the Legal System: Fruit of the poisonous tree ...

And I think more than not.knightnblu is a forumite who's post are well worth reading  He's funny, articulate and well versed and knowledgeable on many things.

Modifié par ubermensch007, 05 août 2011 - 08:42 .

[Saberchic]

ubermensch007 wrote...
IMPATIENT!?! Not to come across as being hostile or anything.But for the record. If you have a ME L.I. Who is it? I don't know the statistics or anything, but I'm pretty sure that most people did not L.I. Liara in ME 1.Maybe I'm wrong there.But as many options as were available in ME 2.Those who romanced a human from ME 1.And was looking forward to pick things up from where they left off.We got the short-end of the stick (as they say) in Mass Effect 2. <_<

I romance Kaidan. My male Sheps don't romance anybody although one of them "hit that" with Liara just to get some booty.  I was never a big Liara fan, and honestly, until LotSB, I never really liked her.

In a way I'm not that bummed out about that.For it gave me a sense of what soldiers in World War 2 or any other overseas conflict must have felt like being away from their sweetheart.Longing to be reunited with them.

Oh and I definetly think that Liara (appears to be) is getting more love (favortism) from BioWare.

I think LotSB is more about her becoming the Shadow Broker than a LI DLC.
Liara, whether we are fans of hers or not, is an important character in Mass Effect. My guess, she'll be filling in TIM's information gathering role for Shep since Shep and Cerberus have parted ways. A bonus for those who romanced her got to reconcile with her, but that wasn't the main goal of LotSB.

*snipping the off-topic parts to shorten the post* 

One of the things I like so much about the Shepard VS relationship in ME 2, is that while some see them as having two very different perspectives during the story.I do not.Consider this...During the Prologue, The VS does not see Shepard die.Shepard does not see the VS live.So many people here seem to sympathize and empathize with the Virmire Survivors perspective.But look at things from "My Commander Shepard's eyes" for a few moments.

President Ronald Regan has a great saying,"Believe half of what you see.And none of what you hear." This was my mantra while playing ME 2.My Shepard listened to what everyone had to say.But didn't believe either TIM, Anderson , Joker or anyone else who told him "Oh yeah.Ashley's still alive.She's doing good.You'll see her soon enough.Hold your horses." <_< I was like,"Okay -- Un huh...Until I saw Ashley with my own two eyes and heard her voice.Touched her.Held her.I wasn't all that sure that she survived.It wasn't very difficult for me to believe that Cerberus would clone my dead lover in order to make me happy.So when I was on Horizon -- In my mind. I ran toward Ash ready to embrace her in my arms.And she goes and slaps me in the face instead.  And I just could not understand why she was so angry with me.From my perspective.Next to everything she said to me.I could throw back in her face.Every one of your crewmates is so surprised to see Shepard alive.Well -- I was just as surprised to see them alive.Shepard didn't see any of them survive the destruction of the Normandy SR-1.But they all act like Shepard is an anomaly.They all act like Shepard needs to explain himself and not them as well.

It's weird man.Its weird.

Yes, but Shepard didn't go through 2 years of thinking that Ashley was dead. Joker was the last one off the Normandy, and what he saw was pretty much Shep's last moments. There's no reason for anybody to think he'd survive that. She went through a whole grieving process. I'm sure she was shocked, and then she might have felt slapped in the face when you said you were with Cerberus. (notice how the VS gets caught up on that one word no matter what else you say).

I just think people may need to cut the VS some slack. I'm not saying that they are blameless on Horizon (hello! I'm not a traitor! yes I still get stuck on that ), but they are only human, and their reaction is understandable.

[Made Nightwing]

ubermensch007 wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote... On the topic of a DLC, it'd be too little, too late. I'd rather Bioware
focus all their energy for Ashley/Kaidan on Mass Effect 3.

How can you say it would be "too little, too late" ? Mass Effect 3 isn't coming out for like seven months.That's more than enough time to make a quality DLC.And it's not just what others say about these characters that is affecting my view of them.It's what I'm saying about them and or speculating about thier intentions, reasoning and conduct.That's starting to sort of do to me as they say in the Legal System: Fruit of the poisonous tree ...

And I think more than not.knightnblu is a forumite who's post are well worth reading  He's funny, articulate and well versed and knowledgeable on many things.

If they had been willing to put in a MASSIVE EFFORT! I would have accepted it and been grateful, probably would have named my first born after Casey. But unless it was something on par with what LOTSB gave us (THE MOST EPIC DLC SINCE GTA IV: THE BALLAD OF GAY TONY), then I wouldn't want it. It's not like a lack of DLC will estrange me from the VS permanently.

I DID get a little unsure of how much I liked them after reading too much VS hate and 'logical' opinions on why they sucked. Then I played ME1 again, we walk into Chora's Den, Ash makes a snarky comment about the dancers, Kaidan does one of his comebacks and I'm like

Fact of the matter is, as much as I liked the ME2 crew, I just didn't FEEL with them what I felt with Ashley and Kaidan. I felt just as heartbroken playing through Virmire and having to leave one of them behind again as I did the first time. And to get back those two characters that permanently endeared themselves to me in ME1, I'm willing to wait another seven months, I just want their comeback to be epic, and not a 560 point Arrive-esque DLC.

On a side note: Man, it's not going to be the same with out Ash/Kaidan bouncing their banter off each other. You don't notice it as much in ME1, consider I always play Virmire last, then go straight to the Council. But in ME3, we'll have a whole game to notice their absence...

[ubermensch007]

Saberchic wrote... I just think people may need to cut the VS some slack. I'm not saying
that they are blameless on Horizon (hello! I'm not a traitor! yes I
still get stuck on that ), but they are only human, and their reaction is understandable.

Yeah, that whole Shepard is a "traitor" and  he 'betrayed the Alliance and Citadel Council has been repeated to the nth degree by some in this thread.I just have to say though.IMHO, I see betrayal as a person taking a hostile action against someone who trust them.Without just cause.

I would ask Sianonsea II and redbaron76, "Exactly what "HOSTILE" action does Commander Shepard commit against either the Alliance HQ or Citadel Council in Mass Effect 2? Shepard died as a Spectre.When he got back on his feet.The only ones that he had to answer to was his former employer.Not his former - former employer.

Last time I checked there is this little thing called Freedom of assembly, sometimes used interchangeably with the freedom of association, is the individual right to come together and collectively express, promote, pursue and defend common interests.[1] The right to freedom of association is recognized as a human right, a political freedom and a civil liberty.

Just because someone is working for Cerberus, does not mean that they can be arrested for this..The N7: Lost Operative Mission makes it clear that if what's on that data file is decipherd.Than Cerberus may very well be considered to be criminals.And there abilty to move smoothlty through the inter-galactic community would be difficult.But a person can be a member of the Crypts or Bloods.Or KKK for that matter.If the lawful authorities have no proof that they have done anything illegal themselves.They can't do d!ck...If there aren't a pair of matches in their hands, drugs in their pockets or recently fired firearm on their person.They can go about their buisness scott free.

The same goes for Cerberus Operatives...

Modifié par ubermensch007, 05 août 2011 - 09:39 .

[Goneaviking]

ubermensch007 wrote...

Saberchic wrote... I just think people may need to cut the VS some slack. I'm not saying
that they are blameless on Horizon (hello! I'm not a traitor! yes I
still get stuck on that ), but they are only human, and their reaction is understandable.

Yeah, that whole Shepard is a "traitor" and  he 'betrayed the Alliance and Citadel Council has been repeated to the nth degree by some in this thread.I just have to say though.IMHO, I see betrayal as a person taking a hostile action against someone who trust them.Without just cause.

I would ask Sianonsea II and redbaron76, "Exactly what "HOSTILE" action does Commander Shepard commit against either the Alliance HQ or Citadel Council in Mass Effect 2? Shepard died as a Spectre.When he got back on his feet.The only ones that he had to answer to was his former employer.Not his former - former employer.

Last time I checked there is this little thing called Freedom of assembly, sometimes used interchangeably with the freedom of association, is the individual right to come together and collectively express, promote, pursue and defend common interests.[1] The right to freedom of association is recognized as a human right, a political freedom and a civil liberty.

Just because someone is working for Cerberus, does not mean that they can be arrested for this..The N7: Lost Operative Mission makes it clear that if what's on that data file is decipherd.Than Cerberus may very well be considered to be criminals.And there abilty to move smoothlty through the inter-galactic community would be difficult.But a person can be a member of the Crypts or Bloods.Or KKK for that matter.If the lawful authorities have no proof that they have done anything illegal themselves.They can't do d!ck...If there aren't a pair of matches in their hands, drugs in their pockets or recently fired firearm on their person.They can go about their buisness scott free.

The same goes for Cerberus Operatives...

An American soldier disappears during an ambush in Afganistan and no sign of him having been discovered he is declared missing in action, and presumed dead. However after two years he reveals his presence to a former squadmate, and it becomes known that he is now a member of al-Qaeda.

What's he doing working with al-Qaeda? Who the *&^% cares? Al-Qaeda is a terrorist organisation, and holding membership within it is an illegal act.

Modifié par Goneaviking, 05 août 2011 - 12:28 .

[Ryzaki]

Yes let's ignore everything else that occurs when Shep shows up with Cerberus.

It's more like said soldier sees a supernatural threat, spends the next year ranting about it toyour superiors who roll their eyes, you've seen said threat in the flesh however and were by his sie when he deflected for a while (another treasonous act) and cae back to save the day. Now he ends up dying in some bizarre suprise attack with some technologically advanced foe (which the first threat was...hm...could they be connected! O:) and you find yourself in a small town that Al Queada was suspected to attack in their recent kidnapping spress (there's no evidence but that's what your peeps assume). Turns out some more weird enemies are the ones who attack you and your friend (and some members of Al Queada along with another of your old friends) show up and save your ass.
Then you don't even bother asking "WTF was trying to kill me!" you instead jump down his throat about him working with Al-Queda.

[Iakus]

Made Nightwing wrote...

I have always taken the position that you shouldn't let what anyone else says or thinks of a character ruin them for you. If that had been the case, then I would hate a great many of the characters in Mass Effect.

I honestly have no clue why knightblu creates those forums. He's not an Ashley fan trying to understand the character, in fact he strongly expresses his negative opinion of her, and dismisses arguments against this opinion with wall of text posts that get slightly tiring to read after a while. He's either got way too much free time on his hands, or he's a very subtle troll. Doesn't matter, what he says shouldn't affect your opinion of Ash. You'll find that being a fan of any character is far more enjoyable than hating them.

On the topic of a DLC, it'd be too little, too late. I'd rather Bioware focus all their energy for Ashley/Kaidan on Mass Effect 3.

I find that thread is the mirror image of this one in a lot of ways.  One lays the blame completely on teh VS (Ash in this case) and the other places most of the blame on Shepard, it seems.  Both are right to a certain degree, but both overstate their case as well.  IMO, the whole scene is rotten to the core and ME2 could only have been improved with its removal. 

[Siansonea]

Ryzaki wrote...

Yes let's ignore everything else that occurs when Shep shows up with Cerberus.

It's more like said soldier sees a supernatural threat, spends the next year ranting about it toyour superiors who roll their eyes, you've seen said threat in the flesh however and were by his sie when he deflected for a while (another treasonous act) and cae back to save the day. Now he ends up dying in some bizarre suprise attack with some technologically advanced foe (which the first threat was...hm...could they be connected! O:) and you find yourself in a small town that Al Queada was suspected to attack in their recent kidnapping spress (there's no evidence but that's what your peeps assume). Turns out some more weird enemies are the ones who attack you and your friend (and some members of Al Queada along with another of your old friends) show up and save your ass.
Then you don't even bother asking "WTF was trying to kill me!" you instead jump down his throat about him working with Al-Queda.

So, kids, the take-away here is that it's okay to work for al-Qaeda, as long as it's for "the right reasons". 

There's a signpost up ahead. I think it says "slippery slope", but maybe it just says "primrose path"...

[Iakus]

Siansonea II wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Yes let's ignore everything else that occurs when Shep shows up with Cerberus.

It's more like said soldier sees a supernatural threat, spends the next year ranting about it toyour superiors who roll their eyes, you've seen said threat in the flesh however and were by his sie when he deflected for a while (another treasonous act) and cae back to save the day. Now he ends up dying in some bizarre suprise attack with some technologically advanced foe (which the first threat was...hm...could they be connected! O:) and you find yourself in a small town that Al Queada was suspected to attack in their recent kidnapping spress (there's no evidence but that's what your peeps assume). Turns out some more weird enemies are the ones who attack you and your friend (and some members of Al Queada along with another of your old friends) show up and save your ass.
Then you don't even bother asking "WTF was trying to kill me!" you instead jump down his throat about him working with Al-Queda.

So, kids, the take-away here is that it's okay to work for al-Qaeda, as long as it's for "the right reasons". 

There's a signpost up ahead. I think it says "slippery slope", but maybe it just says "primrose path"...

Not "for"  "with"

But it is a slippery slope, I see no problem with the VS pointing that out.  What I do have a problem with is the VS acting like Shepard's racing down the slope in a toboggan yelling "WHEEEEE!!!!!" all the while

[TheMarshal]

Goneaviking wrote...

An American soldier disappears during an ambush in Afganistan and no sign of him having been discovered he is declared missing in action, and presumed dead. However after two years he reveals his presence to a former squadmate, and it becomes known that he is now a member of al-Qaeda.

What's he doing working with al-Qaeda? Who the *&^% cares? Al-Qaeda is a terrorist organisation, and holding membership within it is an illegal act.

Cerberus isn't trying to kill the Alliance.  It'd be more like a soldier goes missing and is discovered to be working for Blackwater or some other private organization that's caused more harm than good.

[Siansonea]

iakus wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Yes let's ignore everything else that occurs when Shep shows up with Cerberus.

It's more like said soldier sees a supernatural threat, spends the next year ranting about it toyour superiors who roll their eyes, you've seen said threat in the flesh however and were by his sie when he deflected for a while (another treasonous act) and cae back to save the day. Now he ends up dying in some bizarre suprise attack with some technologically advanced foe (which the first threat was...hm...could they be connected! O:) and you find yourself in a small town that Al Queada was suspected to attack in their recent kidnapping spress (there's no evidence but that's what your peeps assume). Turns out some more weird enemies are the ones who attack you and your friend (and some members of Al Queada along with another of your old friends) show up and save your ass.
Then you don't even bother asking "WTF was trying to kill me!" you instead jump down his throat about him working with Al-Queda.

So, kids, the take-away here is that it's okay to work for al-Qaeda, as long as it's for "the right reasons". 

There's a signpost up ahead. I think it says "slippery slope", but maybe it just says "primrose path"...

Not "for"  "with"

But it is a slippery slope, I see no problem with the VS pointing that out.  What I do have a problem with is the VS acting like Shepard's racing down the slope in a toboggan yelling "WHEEEEE!!!!!" all the while

Okay kids, it's okay to work WITH al-Qaeda, as long as it's for "the right reasons". 

Swim at your own risk, though. If you spend the rest of your life in federal prison serving time for treason, I will have to say "I told you so" at some point. 

[Siansonea]

TheMarshal wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

An American soldier disappears during an ambush in Afganistan and no sign of him having been discovered he is declared missing in action, and presumed dead. However after two years he reveals his presence to a former squadmate, and it becomes known that he is now a member of al-Qaeda.

What's he doing working with al-Qaeda? Who the *&^% cares? Al-Qaeda is a terrorist organisation, and holding membership within it is an illegal act.

Cerberus isn't trying to kill the Alliance.  It'd be more like a soldier goes missing and is discovered to be working for Blackwater or some other private organization that's caused more harm than good.

So, Admiral Kahoku wasn't in the Alliance?
The Alliance Marines on Akuze and Edolus who were killed by Cerberus weren't Alliance?
The fact that they tortured Corporal Toombs instead of outright killing him is somehow okay?

Really?

I can't believe people are going to such great lengths to downplay Cerberus' past actions, and for the sole reason of justifying Shepard's decision to work for Cerberus and cast the VS as the bad guy on the Horizon. You people and your "shades of grey". 

[Saberchic]

I'm not sure the al-Qaeda analogy works well.

Cerberus seems to be a more extreme version of the Alliance whereas the Alliance is making sure to protect humans and fight for humanity (politically as well as militarily). Cerberus seems to be more human dominance goal-oriented.

They're both "fighting for humanity" but do it really differently. The al-Qaeda reference doesn't quite hold the same meaning.

Either way, the VS is well within their rights to be wary. Look at all the experiments in ME1 that we shut down. Cerberus is classified as a known terrorist organization with both the Alliance and the Council races.

I can understand why they were shocked and acted the way they did even though I would have preferred they had a little more faith in me (Shep).