1476 réponses à ce sujet

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Maybe the core of my point as missed, I'll restate it and list the points.

1) Shepard two years ago saved the lives of everyone in the galaxy.
2) Shepard has now saved Ashley's *** two canon times (Once from Geth and now Horizon)
3) Unless Ash is stupid she would be able to see that Shepard just saved the lives of half the colony.

If I knew someone who had saved my life twice not to mention saved the world just a couple dozen months ago if that person told me that he had a reason for working with Cerberus and that he's still on my side than guess what I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

Shepard shouldn't have to explain himself to people who are suppose to know and respect him. Garrus, Tali, Wrex, Anderson, even the Council were willing to give Shepard some trust and the last three didn't even have to have their lives saved by him a few moments before.

Ashley was right to appologise in that E-mail because she was in the wrong and she realised that... maybe if the Devs had her send an E-mail to everyone not just a romance than maybe things would have been taken differently but they didn't.

I have no problem with Ashley as long as she does what I say when I say it and doesn't second guess me. Shepard's trying to save the galaxy for a second time now I would hope he wouldn't have to hold Ashley's hand and explain every reason why he's doing something before she does it.

[shepskisaac]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
They could have showed him the benefit of the doubt that maybe just maybe Shepard is working with Cerberus for a reason...

They know that, they say "but what if Cerberus is lying to you etc what if Cerberus is actually working with the Reapers etc" they're telling you that Cerberus can't be trusted which is a damn truth.

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
Instead all they did was have the nerve to call Shepard a traitor...what a reasonable thing to call the person that just saved you from being abducted and turned into a sticky paste.

Guess what, he/she's working with an organization that is rather rightfuly considered to be terrorist.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 07 juillet 2011 - 03:45 .

[OdanUrr]

First line of dialogue with the VS.

Shepard: "I'm listening."

[ISpeakTheTruth]

IsaacShep wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
They could have showed him the benefit of the doubt that maybe just maybe Shepard is working with Cerberus for a reason...

They know that, they say "but what if Cerberus is lying to you etc what if Cerberus is actually working with the Reapers etc" they're telling you that Cerberus can't be trusted which is a damn truth.

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
Instead all they did was have the nerve to call Shepard a traitor...what a reasonable thing to call the person that just saved you from being abducted and turned into a sticky paste.

Guess what, he's working with an organization that is rather rightly considered terrorist.

1) Shepard says that Cerberus is the only group doing anything about the abductions... which is the damn truth notice how Cerberus shows up and saved the VS's ***. Shepard saved the galaxy from the Reapers 24 months ago... how come this doesn't seem like a massive reason to give Shepard some trust?

2) Guess what? That organization helped Shepard save half the colony and the VS's ***     Shepard is saving the colonies something that Ashely could never do and the Council didn't really care that much about doing in the first place.

You know what would have been a reasonalbe reaction? Tali's reaction when she states she doesn't trust Cerberus but she trusts Shepard to do the right thing.... there that's all I would have liked to here.

Ashley: I don't like Cerberus, and I don't like that you're working with them, but I know who you are and what you've done and I'll trust that you know what you're doing for now.

There its clearly them not liking the situation but without calling the savior of the galaxy a traitor. A nice middle ground.

[Rahmiel]

Shepard disappears for two years and resurfaces in Cerberus. An organisation that is considered (and rightfully so) as a terrorist organisation. Even Aria gave him a body scan to make sure it was the real Shepard.

Why would Shepard not stay in contact with the VS or the alliance? The VS has the right to be suspicious of Shepard. Is it the real Shepard? Is it a Cerberus experiment? Was he brainwashed? You can't trust someone after they disappear for 2 years without warning and then shows up working for people he/she claimed were terrorists.

Also, Wrex is in the game as a squad member but not a permanent squaddie. Think.. LotSB Liara.

[Rahmiel]

Ashley: I don't like Cerberus, and I don't like that you're working with them, but I know who you are and what you've done and if they didn't experiment with thorian mind control I'd trust that you know what you're doing for now.

.

Fixed.

The reaction of the VS is totally valid.

[Ryzaki]

Memmahkth wrote...
Also, Wrex is in the game as a squad member but not a permanent squaddie. Think.. LotSB Liara.

 

D: 

My ME1 bro squad! 

I hope I get Garrus early. I want my bro squad back at some point in ME3. 

[ISpeakTheTruth]

@Memmahkth That's actually pretty fair if he just dropped in on them and said hi with everything you just listed than yes they would have the right to be highly suspicous of Shepard and openly question him and maybe not even trust him.... however Shepard did just drop in to say hi and get a spot of tea now did he? No, he dorpped in and saved half the colony and saved the VS from being abducted and killed.... then he said hi.

What is it about you people that you completely gloss over the fact that Shepard saved hundreds of lives that day? That he saved the VS? That now because of him everyone will now know who is responsible for the colony abductions? That Shepard once he leaves Horizon is going to continue to save more people from the Collectors? While Ashley was hiding in a locker somewhere hopping help would arrive and when help arrives and saves her she starts calling that person who she knows as a hero a traitor? Seriously? How can any person think her reaction was alright?

[implodinggoat]

I never thought Ash or Kaiden were remarkable characters when I played ME1; but now after Horizon, I regard the VS as nothing more than cannon fodder.

I mean honestly, I march in and save the colony their incompetent ass was supposed to be protecting and in the process save their life for the second time and they have the audacity to call me a traitor?

Nah, that **** don't fly.

[Raiil]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

@Memmahkth That's actually pretty fair if he just dropped in on them and said hi with everything you just listed than yes they would have the right to be highly suspicous of Shepard and openly question him and maybe not even trust him.... however Shepard did just drop in to say hi and get a spot of tea now did he? No, he dorpped in and saved half the colony and saved the VS from being abducted and killed.... then he said hi.

What is it about you people that you completely gloss over the fact that Shepard saved hundreds of lives that day? That he saved the VS? That now because of him everyone will now know who is responsible for the colony abductions? That Shepard once he leaves Horizon is going to continue to save more people from the Collectors? While Ashley was hiding in a locker somewhere hopping help would arrive and when help arrives and saves her she starts calling that person who she knows as a hero a traitor? Seriously? How can any person think her reaction was alright?

Let's be fair; Ashley and Kaidan get zapped trying to help out. Most people would have picked up their sticks and fled for the hills.

I said in another thread that I think the VS had a very understandable reason for flipping out, even if it wasn't the most rational of responses. The letters afterwards- well, Ashley's mostly- showed what happens when cooler heads prevail. I am not a fan of the VS in any case, but there are understandable reasons for their reaction.

Not that my canon Shepard is going to forgive Kaidan all that easily, but Alale Shepard has a lot of feelings and is less than rational at any rate.

[Malanek]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
What is it about you people that you completely gloss over the fact that Shepard saved hundreds of thousands of lives that day?

Fixed.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Here's where I stand on the VS. If they do either of these two things than I'll forgive them and we can be ok between eachother.

1) Since they looked me in the eye and called me a traitor, if they were to look me in the eye and tell me they were worng for saying that and that they will never second guess that what I"m doing is for the greater good again.
or
2) During the Trial they defend me whole heartedly, Saying that I saved their lives on Horizon as well as half the Colony and tell the judge that if I destroyed the Relay than I did it for a damn good reason and they would trust me with their lives.

Id prefer number one but either would work.

[habitat 67]

with a punch to the face, I hope.

[Made Nightwing]

Remember folks, we're here to discuss positive ways of re-establishing trust between the characters. There are other threads for you to discuss how much you hate the VS, want to kill them/punch them/use them as cannon fodder. I know that the VS is not everyone's cup of tea, but don't derail the thread because of that.

@ISpeakTheTruth, good points. Post the dialogue you'd like to see in either situation, the rough wording you'd like to take place.

[Faerlyte]

I have every confidence that Bioware will come through, even where the VS is concerned. I have no idea how they'll do it, but I'm sure they will.

That being said, I still don't find the VS reaction on Horizon to be reasonable or justifiable. For one thing, you have two other old (alien)allies who join up with you despite your association with Cerberus and it makes the VS look bad no matter how you slice it. They trust Shepard enough not to lose their heads and have to write an apology later, whereas the VS apparently does not.

I suspect that the Horizon scene is geared largely towards the people who romanced those characters for this reason because to me the entire thing felt very out of place (I did not romance Kaidan). Sure, they were friends, but no more than anybody else who was on the team in ME1 - perhaps less so in some cases, so the reaction did not fit the context. It might be intended to play into the fact that in ME1 basically shoehorns you into being closer to Ashley and Kaidan than you are to the other characters regardless of whether you romanced them, on the basis that they're part of the Alliance military and Alliance soldiers stick together. I recognize the reason for this among soldiers in war, but they were not the only two people on the team in ME1 and on a personal level them being Alliance personnel doesn't earn them preference over the others.

I suspect that there is a plot driven reason for the VS's behavior on Horizon that will arise later. Or perhaps it's just the reason Bioware contrived for why the VS does not join you in ME2. Who knows? I thought it strange that the VS was incapacitated at the beginning of Horizon, yet managed to escape unscathed to meet you later, but perhaps I missed something on that.

Modifié par Faerlyte, 07 juillet 2011 - 04:51 .

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Made Nightwing wrote...
@ISpeakTheTruth, good points. Post the dialogue you'd like to see in either situation, the rough wording you'd like to take place.

Hmm... Ok let me give this a shot.

*The scene should be just between Shepard and the VS they show up at either Shepard's room or come in on him when he's in the communications room*

VS: I'm sorry for coming in like this but I... I'm sorry.
Shepard: What's wrong?
VS: Me. I was wrong, I was wrong for what I said on Horizon you were - are my commander. I was just so shocked that you were alive and working with Cerberus that I... I didn't think 
(Shepard remains silent.)
VS: I know who you are, I know everything thing you've done and everything you're going to do has always been for the right reasons. I should have never doubted that you would do anything differently. You've saved my life, hell you've already saved the galaxy once and your going to try and do it all over again and I said those things to you. I was wrong to not believe in you... I promise I will never make that mistake again.
*Shepard takes a short pause before giving a small smile*
Shepard: Apology accepted.

My Shepard is a paragon so that's what he'd say... A renegade might just say go to hell and burn lol

[CroGamer002]

Only trust that has to be restored is mine in trusting Bioware in not making Shepard a derp.

[Minty-Fresh]

I'm sure it will boil down to a bunch of top-right dialogue choices.

[TheMakoMaster]

Mesina2 wrote...

Only trust that has to be restored is mine in trusting Bioware in not making Shepard a derp.

whole lot of this

[Golden Owl]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Okay, a lot of people are still pretty sore about the Horizon incident and say they will let the VS remain on the ship instead of taking them on missions. The main reasons for this is that they feel they can no longer trust Kaidan/Ashley after the argument on Horizon.

To fix this, I'd like to see Ashley/Kaidan show that they ARE still loyal to Shepard, and that they're willing to follow him/her into hell if necessary. This doesn't mean that they become afraid to voice counter opinions to Shepard, I don't want their attitude changed, but I would like to see just one bit where they defy illogical orders from the Council or Alliance in order to do what's right with Shepard.

I use the example that people seem to like, that with Ashley/Kaidan's new spectre status, they will challenge Shepard's leadership on the Normandy.

For Ashley:

Ambassador Udina (over holo-imager): Shepard, you need to get the Normandy to the Citadel to help the fleet.
Shepard: We can't hold on to the Citadel, we need to evacuate and fortify a holdable position. Get the fleet out of there.
Udina: I'm giving you an order Shepard.
Shepard: I'm sorry sir, I can't follow that order. I'll bring help as fast as I can, but I won't ride in alone. Goodbye.
Udina: Shepard, don't you...(is cut off)
Ashley: Commander, as an official Council Spectre, I must formally protest your illegal seizure of Alliance property and mutiny against a direct order.
Shepard: Duly noted.
Ashley: Good. Now that that's over with, what's the plan?

For Kaidan (particularly after the arguments about him pulling rank on Shepard)"

Kaidan: Hmm, my orders are to keep you under close surveillance and take the Normandy to Arcturus.
Shepard: Really?
Vega: Sorry ma'am, but Commander Alenko has to follow orders just like the rest of us.
Shepard: Yeah, I gues you're....
Kaidan: But, in all the confusion, it seems I've misplaced my omni-tool, so I can't access those orders. I guess I'll have to act on my own initiative and follow the recommendations given to me by my former commander.
Vega: Ah...boss? What about your orders?
Kaidan: What orders Lieutenant?
Vega: The orders you........what orders? I haven't heard any orders. Guess we'll just have to go with Shepard's recommendation.

I like this^ very much...stays in character and I feel a good scenerio...Well done Made Nightwing.

[dreamextractor]

I actually like both Ash and Kaidan and don't care that they questioned Shepard and didn't agree with him. I will be pretty annoyed if they're the only one apologizing since Shepard should get the chance to explain everything too instead of just letting them do all of the talking again - there should be an effort to fix that friendship from both sides and it should take more than one conversation.

Hopefully it doesn't end in "I should go", too.

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

Mesina2 wrote...

Only trust that has to be restored is mine in trusting Bioware in not making Shepard a derp.

Haha Shepard definitely has some slow moments.

"Hey guise I have an idea lets go to the middle of the collector ship and plug it into our ship's computer"

"Illusive man says I have no choice but to work for his hilariously evil terrorist organization? I guess that means I have to work for Cerberus now"

"Reporter giving me sh*t? Punch her out on galactic TV. That will solve the problem."

"Krogan giving me sh*t? IT'S MOTHERF*CKING HEADBUTT TIME. Doin' diplomacy the Shepard way."

I mean, he/she kind of herps and derps his/her way through the galaxy. But hey, can't argue with the results.

Modifié par DaveExclamationMarkYognaut, 07 juillet 2011 - 05:21 .

[Bluko]

Am I the only one not buthurt over Horizon?

I mean yeah it's kind of crappy reunion. But it's not as if the Virmire Survior told Shepard to go burn in a fire. Basically my impression was...

VS:"I don't like Cerberus, so I'm not going to join you. Sorry."
Shepard:"You sure? I have cookies..."
VS:"No thanks I'll probably team up with you again later though."
Shepard:"Whatever."

Heaven forbid squadmates actually have opinions of their own and don't simply follow Shepard around like some kind of dog. (I'm looking at you Tali and Garrus.) Sure it sucks VS didn't rejoin you. But I don't really feel VS owes Shepard any more of an apology. What'd they do wrong to Shepard exactly?

[PrinceLionheart]

Bluko wrote...

Am I the only one not buthurt over Horizon?

Nope. In fact, I'm surprised more characters didn't go "WTF" over Shepard being in a Cerberus Uniform and riding a cerberus ship after being MIA for 2 years.

[Malanek]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...
Haha Shepard definitely has some slow moments.

"Reporter giving me sh*t? Punch her out on galactic TV. That will solve the problem."

"Krogan giving me sh*t? IT'S MOTHERF*CKING HEADBUTT TIME. Doin' diplomacy the Shepard way."

I mean, he/she kind of herps and derps his/her way through the galaxy. But hey, can't argue with the results.

You didn't have to do these you know. If this is a case of Shepard herping and derping it is because the player chose to.