1476 réponses à ce sujet

[Siansonea]

paul165 wrote...

Here comes Johnny!

Cough. Anyway...

Interestingly I wouldn't - I'd wait and let them think I trusted them right until I spat in their face at the worst possible moment. Wait; what am I talking about that's what I did do - ah the post SM TIM conversation good times.

That's just my personality though. I don't deal in subterfuge. I'd be a terrible Infiltrator. I'm much more of a Vanguard type. Get in close and overwhelm them. Don't even give them a chance to act. I will use brutal honesty rather than honey-tongued duplicity every time.

[Iakus]

Siansonea II wrote...

Well, can anyone give me a good reason why Anderson should not tell their top-secret operative everything they know about Cerberus? The operative who is investigating Cerberus? The operative who is more than likely to run into Shepard, if the Alliance’s hypothesis about Cerberus being involved in the abductions proves correct? Anyone?

Comms were down?

[Iakus]

Siansonea II wrote...

paul165 wrote...

Here comes Johnny!

Cough. Anyway...

Interestingly I wouldn't - I'd wait and let them think I trusted them right until I spat in their face at the worst possible moment. Wait; what am I talking about that's what I did do - ah the post SM TIM conversation good times.

That's just my personality though. I don't deal in subterfuge. I'd be a terrible Infiltrator. I'm much more of a Vanguard type. Get in close and overwhelm them. Don't even give them a chance to act. I will use brutal honesty rather than honey-tongued duplicity every time.

Actually, I never thought about Shepard actually playing dumb for the benefit of Cerberus agents and listening devices.  Still, he could have at least passed on info to help the Alliance, like Mordin's anti Seeker tech.  And the VS should have picked up that Something Is Not Right Here.

"The Shepard I knew would never act like this"

[Estelindis]

Siansonea II wrote...

If I'm Commander Shepard, I'm not afraid of Cerberus. I fully expect them to do their worst. And I'll be ready when they do. I'm not going to tiptoe around TIM and Miranda. I'm going to tell them flat out that they're only behind the Reapers on my list of People I Need To Kill Soon-ish. If they have a problem with that, they resurrected the wrong Spectre. It's a mistake they'll live to regret. For a little while, at least. But playing nice with TIM? Not an option.

Fair enough (again), though I don't quite think we're aiming at the same point.    But it would have been nice to get the option to say something like that in-game.

[Iakus]

Estelindis wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

If I'm Commander Shepard, I'm not afraid of Cerberus. I fully expect them to do their worst. And I'll be ready when they do. I'm not going to tiptoe around TIM and Miranda. I'm going to tell them flat out that they're only behind the Reapers on my list of People I Need To Kill Soon-ish. If they have a problem with that, they resurrected the wrong Spectre. It's a mistake they'll live to regret. For a little while, at least. But playing nice with TIM? Not an option.

Fair enough (again), though I don't quite think we're aiming at the same point.    But it would have been nice to get the option to say something like that in-game.

And that is why Horizon fails.  Shep doesn't say it, and the VS doesn't infer it from Shepard's ME1 actions.

[ubermensch007]

My OpinionSucks wrote... (Coincidentally, and feel free to ignore this if you want as I understand it's off-topic, how do you feel about working with Legion? Because I think it's a comparable situation.)


Siansonea II wrote... It is a comparable situation. I'm glad you asked.

My Opinion Sucks, I'm glad you aked that question for two reasons.

One: I was meaning to raise that point myself but I got sidetracked.

Two: If I had asked Siansonea II that -- Than I guess she would have just ignored it. <_<

Siansonea II wrote... @ubermensch007: Here’s a new word for you to look up: whack. Because that post was straight-up whack, yo.

Also:

• It wasn’t a compliment. At all.

• TMI about the underwear.

•Trying to debate the nature of a situation when you can’t even agree on the basic parameters of the situation is beyond pointless. We’re really not even speaking the same language here. Shepard is a god, indeed. ::eyeroll:: If that’s your position, then nothing I say can possibly matter. Shepard will just smite the VS with his divine wrath. Blah blah blah.

And as for your last line—way to keep it classy.

1.Didn't really think that it was.

2.That was more of a joke than a statement of fact.

3.Ryzaki wrote...Yeah wasn't taking to you.

Or about whatever your tangent is going on about. 

Siansonea II wrote... It's an open forum, Sunshine. If you want to have a dialog with a specific
person, that's what PMs are for. But whatever,
it's easier for you to simply dismiss my points as "tangents" than to actually think about what I'm saying (which is directly related to the Horizon exchange). You've got your mad on, and you've stopped doing anything but react. Have fun with that.
Wow... Looks like you just totally "REAPED WHAT YOU SOWED"

"It's easy for you to simply dismiss my points; b/c I disagree with you about whether Shepard could be considered to be a god or not -- than to actually "think" about what I'm saying (that has nothing to do with this disagreement we had)

I thought it was strange that you continue to say that "Shepard is not a god." When no one here was ever saying that he was a god.I decided to bring forth a counter-argument.Because as it has been said, "Assertions is not evidence."

Most "grown-ups" have the abilty to just decide to agree to disagree about a certain point or argument, but continue on with other topics of discussion.But this is a quality you appear to lack.

And I think that this is unfortunate...

But -- Meh...

Modifié par ubermensch007, 12 août 2011 - 03:38 .

[paul165]

>>“Everyone is standing in the mud?” How is the VS not being completely aboveboard?<<

They are completely above board about working for a not terribly pleasant organisation infiltrated by terrorists. They can't claim as much moral superiority about working for the Alliance as Horizon seems to indicate.

>>Amusing, but I’m really not going to take the IRA’s word on Cthulu and the Fae either.<<

And why should you? The point was working for the IRA was the least insane part of that sentence and yet that is what the VS fixates on rather than wondering whether Shepard has totally lost the plot.

>>That's just my personality though. I don't deal in subterfuge. I'd be a terrible
Infiltrator. I'm much more of a Vanguard type. Get in close and
overwhelm them. Don't even give them a chance to act. I will use brutal
honesty rather than honey-tongued duplicity every time.<<

Whilst also being a vanguard I tend to play Shepard as long term goals kind of person so they will be polite with Cerberus, encouraging with Jack and patient with the wide variety of daddy issues the squad has. Because the long term payoff from that approach Shepard considers to be high enough to justify the short term irritation. Whats the quote again

'Be patient, be polite, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.'

Not to mention the amusement of the expression on his face as all of TIMs intricately crafted plans fall apart with no warning at all. Don't look at me like that it's perfectly normal:whistle:

Modifié par paul165, 10 août 2011 - 10:37 .

[RGC_Ines]

laecraft wrote...

The very first thing I want to know in ME3 is who let VS on board of Normandy, because it most certainly wasn't my Shepard.

Well it's Alliance ship right now, so I assume, that's military thing. More interesting is, what VS  doing on Earth on Shep trial. Will VS will be one of those who arrested Shepard? Will he/she defend Shepard on the trial? Or maybe VS will be against Shepard? Who knows...
I don't like the idea You described that no one will care, that VS is on the ship ( Shepard, Joker, Garrus) and take it like normal situation. I hope for some good dialogs here.
About trust there are two sides not only Shepard and not only VS.
I don't trust VS anymore after Horizon becouse:
-Alliance and Council destroyed all Shepard ( and VS) work from ME
-VS is still pro-alliance and it's look like he/she done nothing with it
-VS called my PC traitor, don't want to consider other options

VS don't trust Shepard becouse:
-Shepard is working with Cerberus
-Shepard probably faked her\\his dead ( who belive in ressurection?)
Of course we, as a player knew, why Shep is with Cerberus and we know the truth about Lazarus project, while BioWare only knew if VS seriously didn't care about Alliance& Council lies, but those two poor souls in the game know nothing for sure, so they both will need to sit down and have honest talk.
Also there are sometimes strong emotions if we are talking about Shep\\VS such friendship or love, so VS distrust hurts sometimes more.

[Dariustwinblade]

Still I hope to get a chance to butcher them in Me3 like I did with Morinth after she killied Samara. (send Morinth into the vent, yes you may consider me evil for killing Morinth)

[RGC_Ines]

Dariustwinblade wrote...

Still I hope to get a chance to butcher them in Me3 like I did with Morinth after she killied Samara. (send Morinth into the vent, yes you may consider me evil for killing Morinth)

Well Morinth killed Samara becouse You, the player allow her, so why all this hate?
What's for You is the reason, that You want to kill certain character?
I killed only two companions in ME2 with "cold blood" and they were Cerberus agents. I don't think I can really trust them and keep them for ME3. I would consider to kill VS not becouse of Horizon, but if he/she will betray my PC, he/she will be under Reapers control, he/she will try to arrest my Shepard ( well if Devs will allow me to do so).

[Siansonea]

paul165 wrote...


>>“Everyone is standing in the mud?” How is the VS not being completely aboveboard?<<


They are completely above board about working for a not terribly pleasant organisation infiltrated by terrorists. They can't claim as much moral superiority about working for the Alliance as Horizon seems to indicate.

I really don't understand what you're trying to say here. That because bad people have infiltrated the Alliance, therefore the Alliance as a whole is unworthy of respect? I'm sure the Alliance does everything it can to root out the moles, but the whole point of infiltrating an organization is to be INVISIBLE within the organization. So saying that Kaidan and Ashley have to share the blame of Cerberus moles within the Alliance—that's ridiculous.

>>Amusing, but I’m really not going to take the IRA’s word on Cthulu and the Fae either.<<


And why should you? The point was working for the IRA was the least insane part of that sentence and yet that is what the VS fixates on rather than wondering whether Shepard has totally lost the plot.

I tend to feel the exact opposite. Really insane things are easy to dismiss, no one can be expected to take them seriously. But something like working with Cerberus, that's not a flight of fancy. That's real. That needs to be discussed. 

>>That's just my personality though. I don't deal in subterfuge. I'd be a terrible Infiltrator. I'm much more of a Vanguard type. Get in close and overwhelm them. Don't even give them a chance to act. I will use brutal honesty rather than honey-tongued duplicity every time.<<


Whilst also being a vanguard I tend to play Shepard as long term goals kind of person so they will be polite with Cerberus, encouraging with Jack and patient with the wide variety of daddy issues the squad has. Because the long term payoff from that approach Shepard considers to be high enough to justify the short term irritation. Whats the quote again


'Be patient, be polite, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.'


Not to mention the amusement of the expression on his face as all of TIMs intricately crafted plans fall apart with no warning at all. Don't look at me like that it's perfectly normal

That was funneh. 


Different play styles are perfectly valid, that's for sure. And I roleplay all six of my Shepards differently. Some are sneaky, others are utterly without guile. It's fun to play different types of Shepards, and they all have a different take on the Horizon sequence. My Vanguard was brought up short by Kaidan, and he completely gets Kaidan's point of view. My Infiltrator was just rolling his eyes as Ashley hassled him, and he was staring at her boobs the whole time. My Soldier just wanted to b¡tchslap Kaidan for daring to defy her. My Engineer just blankly stared and made noncomittal responses, and she had even romanced Kaidan. My Sentinel and my Adept were both kind of put off by Kaidan, but they shrugged it off, they could see where he was coming from, but geez, he could have given them a little credit for not being a ******.

[Siansonea]

Dariustwinblade wrote...

Still I hope to get a chance to butcher them in Me3 like I did with Morinth after she killied Samara. (send Morinth into the vent, yes you may consider me evil for killing Morinth)

I think I would consider you evil regardless.

[Sepewrath]

elektrego wrote...

The amount of time people put into trying to logically proof how right they are to hate someone because of a an emotinally charged five minute conversation is amazing. Inventing all those scenarios that have very little to do with what actually happens, condemning th VS for not seeing Shepard's side of the story, when they continue to do the very same with the VS and are actually more irrational in their behaviour than the VS who eventually sees why Shepard is doing, what he is doing.
Ah, the sweet loss of perspective...
This amuses me *cue circus music*

do do doddido do do dido

[Siansonea]

elektrego wrote...

The amount of time people put into trying to logically proof how right they are to hate someone because of a an emotinally charged five minute conversation is amazing. Inventing all those scenarios that have very little to do with what actually happens, condemning th VS for not seeing Shepard's side of the story, when they continue to do the very same with the VS and are actually more irrational in their behaviour than the VS who eventually sees why Shepard is doing, what he is doing.
Ah, the sweet loss of perspective...
This amuses me *cue circus music*

Inorite? It's particularly amusing when people want to "butcher" the VS because they "betrayed" Shepard. This, ladies and germs, is seriously effed-up logic.

[frostajulie]

effed up or not I do hope we get to rp the option to get the VS the heck off my ship preferable by spacing. I wouldn't do it in all playthroughs but it would be a great option

[1136342t54_]

jreezy wrote...
People actually believe Ashley betrayed Shepard?

Of course they do. You see when a love interest doesn't get down on their knees on command from Commander Shepard it is an automatic betrayal and the punishment for that is spacing because they hurt the sensitive bad ass marine/Spectre.

[paul165]

>>I really don't understand what you're trying to say here. That because bad people have infiltrated the Alliance, therefore the Alliance as a whole is unworthy of respect? I'm sure the Alliance does everything it can to root out the moles, but the whole point of infiltrating an organization is to be INVISIBLE within the organization. So saying that Kaidan and Ashley have to share the blame of Cerberus moles within the Alliance—that's ridiculous.<<

I was saying that the Alliance is not massively better than Cerberus (see Torfan, BAat, illegal research) and the Council treads even closer (Krogan Rebellions). As for Cerberus infiltrators how hard they have to try to stay invisible seems to be somewhat variable along with how well the Alliance gets along with the 'rogue' organisation. **Cough** Arrival, Jacob's job offer, the grave of the SR1, construction of the SR2 **Cough**

Or for that matter - who actually did the research that led to EDI the Alliance after all has a history of AI research and AFAIK are the only major player except the Quarians with any real expertise in it.

The VS has to take precisely as much responsiblity for those actions as Shepard does for Akuse and Pragia. How much that should weigh on the discussions between the VS and Shepard is of course a matter of roleplaying rather than objective fact.

Modifié par paul165, 11 août 2011 - 12:11 .

[Yezdigerd]

I must say that I really can't understand how anyone can take the VS antagonism seriously. I just went huh? when Ashley callled me a traitor.
The game works on the assumption that the VS are close. In ME they even chose to betray the alliance because they have such faith in Shephard's judgement.
Yet on Horizon the VS act like they are brainwashed. the VS know nothing about Sheps relations to Cerberus but assume the worst, despite them being friends and all. Maybe Shepards buddies are ex-cerburus, or a splinter group, or that Cerberus is playing Shep falsely, is working with Cerberus under duress, or what actually was the case, Cerberus chose to work with Shep over some kind of mutually benefical goel for the benefit of humanity
That Shepard and his Cerb buddies saves the VS and the colony would indicate that Shep is the same upstanding dude that the VS knew from ME1.
but even if Shepard's action was blatantly treasonous, executing alliance admirals, supervising vivisections of the colonists what is more likely, that Shepard been swayed to Cerberus philosophy, or that he is mind controlled in some fashion?

To me the answer is obvious, yet the VS washes their hands of their friends "treason" and leaves him in the clutches of the Cerberus sect. which is just appalling if they really are friends or lovers.
Joker, Chakwas still unshakable faith in Shep, Andersson is sceptic but no treason spiel either. Hacketts trust Shephards version of things implicitly. but the woman/man that profess to love you cannot even be bothered hearing your side of the story much less give you the benefit of the doubt. It's just comical in the end and I just feel pity for the VS for being a victim of bad writing rather then hurt over what they actually are saying.

Modifié par Yezdigerd, 11 août 2011 - 01:00 .

[Siansonea]

Yezdigerd wrote...

I must say that I really can't understand how anyone can take the VS antagonism seriously. I just went huh? when Ashley callled me a traitor.
The game works on the assumption that the VS are close. In ME they even chose to betray the alliance because they have such faith in Shephard's judgement.
Yet on Horizon the VS act like they are brainwashed. the VS know nothing about Sheps relations to Cerberus but assume the worst, despite them being friends and all. Maybe Shepards buddies are ex-cerburus, or a splinter group, or that Cerberus is playing Shep falsely, is working with Cerberus under duress, or what actually was the case, Cerberus chose to work with Shep over some kind of mutually benefical goel for the benefit of humanity
That Shepard and his Cerb buddies saves the VS and the colony would indicate that Shep is the same upstanding dude that the VS knew from ME1.
but even if Shepard's action was blatantly treasonous, executing alliance admirals, supervising vivisections of the colonists what is more likely, that Shepard been swayed to Cerberus philosophy, or that he is mind controlled in some fashion?

To me the answer is obvious, yet the VS washes their hands of their friends "treason" and leaves him in the clutches of the Cerberus sect. which is just appalling if they really are friends or lovers.
Joker, Chakwas still unshakable faith in Shep, Andersson is sceptic but no treason spiel either. Hacketts trust Shephards version of things implicitly. but the woman/man that profess to love you cannot even be bothered hearing your side of the story much less give you the benefit of the doubt. It's just comical in the end and I just feel pity for the VS for being a victim of bad writing rather then hurt over what they actually are saying.

Right, everyone's supposed to have "unshakeable faith" in Shepard. Because she's a god or something. Nope.

Once again, it boils down to the time-honored "yeah Shepard is there with Cerberus and yeah they're kinda bad and all, but KAIDAN DIDN'T ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS OR GIVE SHEPARD THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT!!!!! STFU ASHLEY!!!" We'll just excuse all of Shepard's bad judgement, and expect the VS to behave according to our third-person omniscient observation. That would SO not happen in the real world. If you showed up on neutral turf, and met a fellow soldier after believing she was dead for two years, and then found out she was working for an organization that has been killing other soldiers for years, you would NOT give her the "benefit of the doubt" or anything else. You'd tell her to go to Hell, or worse. I think the VS showed admirable restraint. But "because it's Shepard" we're supposed to turn off all logic, and just take everything on faith. Puh-leeze.

[Ryzaki]

Oi vey. I just want the option to RP a hostile/cold relationship with the VS. If my Shepard acts like everything is dandy with them on the ship bleh.  

Or even the option to smile in their face while secretly plotting against them and the alliance. Either would be awesome. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 août 2011 - 03:32 .