1476 réponses à ce sujet

[1136342t54_]

Yezdigerd wrote...


No, but last time time Shepard comitted treason she saved the galaxy as we know it, that wouldn't give you pause for thought?. Especially since the VS had “faith” in Shephard's judgment then and were vindicated in defying the alliance.
I just mentioned all Shepard's other alliance buddies since they view her completely differently, even though the VS should know Shep better then them. And having faith in the “hero of the citadel” seems more reasonable to me then simply assuming that Shepard is aiding and abetting a terrorist organization she sought to destroy 2 years ago.

How do your VS know that Shephard intentions aren't good? How does the VS know Shepard isn't played by
Cerberus? How do the VS know Cerberus haven't cloned or brainwashed her?
The VS just never bothers to find out. If Shep was the love of my life I certainly wouldn't leave any rock unturned.

Cerberus is a pro human organization that will do anything to strengthen humanity as a whole. A very renegade shepard could ally with Cerberus. Now depending on the reasons doesn't necessarily matter with a loyal member of the Alliance military. That situation is far more grayer than what happened when Shepard stole the Normandy. The Commander literally had no choice and was working on a very short time frame.

The Collector issue is different because the Alliance was assuming it was Cerberus or Pirates who did this. Shepard working with Cerberus regarding disappearing colonies will confuse the situation even more. The VS likely believes Shepard is genuine about working with Cerberus but she or he thinks that it would be better to work with the Council or the Alliance to deal with the problem.

That would SO not happen in the real world. If you showed up on neutral turf, and met a fellow soldier after believing she was dead for two years, and then found out she was working for an organization that has been killing other soldiers for years, you would NOT give her the "benefit of the doubt" or anything else.

Assuming they aren't shooting at me, If my Navy SEAL buddy turned up with known members of Al-Qa'ida, my first thought wouldn't be that he had embraced militant Islam. Some kind of covert operation would probably be the first many more credible scenarios I would go for in absence of other information..

Different situation when you think about it. Cerberus isn't a terrorist group and shepard was working with them on his own initiative not necessarily on the behalf of the Alliance or US. Technically its basically a reckless attempt to use a supposed terrorist organization as a weapon against your nation's enemies.

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...

...Have you ever played renegade Shepard? I'm seriously asking. Play renegade Shepard (complete renegade) and come back and tell me about some "relatively friendly relationship." 

I didn't know constantly insulting somone and belittling them was conductive to a friendly relationship. 

And it's quite possible to fight and live with someone that you don't like. Magically it happens during the SM. You think Jack and Miranda magically start liking each other just because they fought with each other? Uh... 

Natural growth? I wasn't aware I couldn't pick how hostile to be to my party members in ME1...oh wait...couldn't I be a jerk even near endgame? Oh yes I could! So...hm...this is odd. I can be cruel and harsh all the way up to endgame but magically durnig those relatively peaceful months (no Sovereign or severe Geth threat) my Shep somehow goes from hostile and dersive to
being buddy buddies because of fighting to the death with the crew? Huh. Odd that didn't happen when they were fighting Saren don't you think? 

I've played an all renegade playthrough twice  on both games (ME2 is more tolerable ).

By relatively friendly I mean able to work with your comrade well enough so that you can accomplish difficult missions. Its likely after a while Shepard would be loyal and prefer this crew over others. Even Shepard's crew mates would be very loyal to their commander. Ashley saying that shepard was more than just a skipper to her could be interpreted as you are the only Commander who actually used her for combat missions or at least respect her abilities or something like that.

The choice to be friendly or cold. Why on earth would it make renegade Shepard (or even paragon) Shepard happy no matter what? Why are you trying to push your  Shepard on me? All Sheps are not the same.

So you are denying that shepard didn't feel the slightest bit relieved that Joker someone who was from his former crew a person he trusts was with him during ME2? Every shepard was relieved and maybe happy about that no matter what. 

Renegade shepard isn't as cold as you think to be honest. I've never gotten that from a total renegade shepard.

Silly and exaggerating? Ra forbid I ask BW to keep up with viable RP options they gave in the first game. Oh noes.  

So saying that Bioware will force us into liking shepard because they made a assumption that shepard's teammates saw their Commander as a loyal alliance soldier who they respected greatly and were loyal to is asking BW to keep viable RP options?

How is this silly and exaggerating? Shepard owes TIM a debt! How can you work for someone who gives you everything you want, gives you back your life, your ship, a new crew, the means to save the galaxy again without having warm feelings for them?

Oh that arguement doesn't seem so good now does it?

Shepard throughout the game whether renegade or paragon disliked the Illusive Man even more after he risked Shepard's life multiple times.

No one likes the Illusive Man by the end of the game.

[1136342t54_]

I am not going to deny that Bioware dropped the ball a bit when it came to the squad mate relationships but when you think about it its a little difficult to involve your old squad mates in many things if you are 100% douchebag who doesn't give a damn about the crew or squadmates period. At a certain point many of them would have little reason for working with Shepard by ME3 and would stay with their own governments or work with someone else against the Reapers.

BW would have to start pumping out new squadmates.

My argument is that the VS doesn't have to be a BF of Commander shepard to fell betrayed by Shepard. Their are a multitude of reasons to explain the betrayal.

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...
YesI've played an all renegade playthrough twice  on both games (ME2 is more tolerable 
By relatively friendly I mean able to work with your comrade well enough so that you can accomplish difficult missions. Its likely after a while Shepard would be loyal and prefer this crew over others. Even Shepard's crew mates would be very loyal to their commander. Ashley saying that shepard was more than just a skipper to her could be interpreted as you are the only Commander who actually used her for combat missions or at least respect her abilities or something like that.

And I'm not debating that they would work together. Me and you apparently have different differentions of friendly however. Friendly to me...means...amicable cheerful. What you're describing is simply a business relationship. I never denied that was possible. 

My renegade Shepard is amicable to about 2 people. And one of them is TIM. 

So you are denying that shepard didn't feel the slightest bit relieved that Joker someone who was from his former crew a person he trusts was with him during ME2? Every shepard was relieved and maybe happy about that no matter what. 

Renegade shepard isn't as cold as you think to be honest. I've never gotten that from a total renegade shepard.

Why does every Shepard have to be relieved and happy about that? Why do you insist that everyone's Shepard must feel the way yours does? 

I've gotten it. But then again that's my Shepard. I don't claim what others Shepards should or should not feel. This is supposed to be a RPG with heavy emphasis on character interaction. 

So saying that Bioware will force us into liking shepard because they made a assumption that shepard's teammates saw their Commander as a loyal alliance soldier who they respected greatly and were loyal to is asking BW to keep viable RP options?

Liking Shepard? 

You mean forcing the VS into liking Shepard and Vice Versa? 

...I really don't see what you're trying to say in this paragraph it's a jumbled mess. 

Shepard throughout the game whether renegade or paragon disliked the Illusive Man even more after he risked Shepard's life multiple times.

No one likes the Illusive Man by the end of the game.

Why yes paragon Shepard who goes "I understand what you did and why." is showing such a dislike for TIM (and this is after the CS mission.) And renegade Shepard obviously hates TIM that's why he's all gung ho to jump on the mission and tells Miranda if he had gotten the offer he would've joined Cerberus. 

Because obviously all Shepards feel the exact same way. That's why they make all the same exact decisions.  

I did manage to play a renegon Shepard who didn't once say anything negative about TIM (other than the "use the base wisely" at the end). So I don't see where this no one likes TIM by the end of the game is coming from. 

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...

I am not going to deny that Bioware dropped the ball a bit when it came to the squad mate relationships but when you think about it its a little difficult to involve your old squad mates in many things if you are 100% douchebag who doesn't give a damn about the crew or squadmates period. At a certain point many of them would have little reason for working with Shepard by ME3 and would stay with their own governments or work with someone else against the Reapers.

BW would have to start pumping out new squadmates.

My argument is that the VS doesn't have to be a BF of Commander shepard to fell betrayed by Shepard. Their are a multitude of reasons to explain the betrayal.

Actually no they wouldn't. All they would have to do is have seperate dialogues magically DAO managed this just fine. Maybe have them not talk to a Shepard they dislike if they want to scrimp on the dialogue. It's not a major deal. 

And if your squadmates don't want to work with you when the fate of the galaxy is at stake just because them and SHep isn't friends? That's just stupid 

"Losing you was like losing a limb" isn't just feeling betrayed by Shepard. It's overly personal with no basis for most of my Sheps in my view. Then of course is Joker's "oh you guys are still friends?" comment. 

The VS was never my Shep's friend. Just a co-worker. And sadly we're not even given the opportunity to tell this to Joker. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 août 2011 - 11:38 .

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...
Actually no they wouldn't. All they would have to do is have seperate dialogues magically DAO managed this just fine. 

And if your squadmates don't want to work with you when the fate of the galaxy is at stake just because them and SHep isn't friends? That's just stupid 

"Losing you was like losing a limb" isn't just feeling betrayed by Shepard. It's overly personal with no basis for most of my Sheps in my view. Then of course is Joker's "oh you guys are still friends?" comment. 

The VS was never my Shep's friend. Just a co-worker. And sadly we're not even given the opportunity to tell this to Joker. 

The VS can work with the Alliance military or on their own as Spectres working with Shepard isn't necessary. Grunt can easily stay with Wrex and kill the Reapers there not seeing Shepard as worthy enough to command him. Thane is probably dead. Tali can easily stay with the Flotilla and possibly fight the geth instead of the Reapers. Its assumed Legion escaped from Cerberus is Shepard uses the renegade option and Shepard may still not accept the help of the Geth (you know being a douche bag). Garrus may or may not help not really sure on that yet. Miranda would likely help the Alliance if Shepard isn't douche bag enough to arrest her and send her to an Alliance prison. Jacob will likely go back to the Alliance or get put in jail because of douche bag shepard. It doesn't matter much with Mordin he isn't prone to many emotional responses. Jack doesn't respond well to ass holes for long periods of time and would likely laugh as the Galaxy is destroyed around them but may join if it means killing more Cerberus ass holes.

Now I can go on about this but a 100% renegade shep (Which is stupid shep) doesn't give a crap about most others except the bottom line really. His teammates don't have to work with shepard to fight the Reapers they all can join the military or go back to doing what they do best really. They are badasses on their on and thats if Shepard doesn't get many of them killed on the Suicide Mission. Renegade shepard may not give a rats ass about the loyalty mission or his crewmates but will get the technology necessary for the SM and will survive it with many of his teammates killed.

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...
The VS can work with the Alliance military or on their own as Spectres working with Shepard isn't necessary. Grunt can easily stay with Wrex and kill the Reapers there not seeing Shepard as worthy enough to command him. Thane is probably dead. Tali can easily stay with the Flotilla and possibly fight the geth instead of the Reapers. Its assumed Legion escaped from Cerberus is Shepard uses the renegade option and Shepard may still not accept the help of the Geth (you know being a douche bag). Garrus may or may not help not really sure on that yet. Miranda would likely help the Alliance if Shepard isn't douche bag enough to arrest her and send her to an Alliance prison. Jacob will likely go back to the Alliance or get put in jail because of douche bag shepard. It doesn't matter much with Mordin he isn't prone to many emotional responses. Jack doesn't respond well to ass holes for long periods of time and would likely laugh as the Galaxy is destroyed around them but may join if it means killing more Cerberus ass holes.

Now I can go on about this but a 100% renegade shep (Which is stupid shep) doesn't give a crap about most others except the bottom line really. His teammates don't have to work with shepard to fight the Reapers they all can join the military or go back to doing what they do best really. They are badasses on their on and thats if Shepard doesn't get many of them killed on the Suicide Mission. Renegade shepard may not give a rats ass about the loyalty mission or his crewmates but will get the technology necessary for the SM and will survive it with many of his teammates killed.

The assumption that Shepard only picks the renegade or only picks the paragon is severely limiting your roleplaying scope so I suggested looking beyond that. Pro-cerberus Shepard does not have to sell Legion. 

...and you just called renegade stupid? Yeah...I'm gonna back away before I go into renegade tangent mode. Suffice to say I disagree. And most of those people on your list of "no longer working for Shep!" can also be dead. So obviously Shep's still gonna have new peeps. Liara is obsessed with Shep no matter how he/she treats her. She'll stay with him no matter what. Ash/Kaidan have a duty to the alliance. That's already 2 companions. Garrus? Maybe even if he doesn't like Shepard he just wants to see it through and knows no one else gets the job done as well. Tali...she probably would stay on the flotila I'll give you that. Grunt? Even jerkwad Shepard who can't stand him is still his battlemaster (or he might be dead). Jack? I...kill off Jack so I really couldn't care less what the hell she does. Miranda? If she doesn't respect Shepard she might be planning to work with him so she can betray him to TIM later (if Shep's not pro-Cerberus) or because of TIM's orders (if Shep is pro-cerberus). It's not difficult for them to stay despite not liking Shepard. You don't have to like someone to work with them. There are bigger things at stake then worrying about working with the person you dislike. (which is why all my Sheps don't care about the VS working with them. More bodies to throw at the Reapers? Heck yeah!) 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 août 2011 - 11:55 .

[Sepewrath]

1136342t54 wrote...
Now I can go on about this but a 100% renegade shep (Which is stupid shep) doesn't give a crap about most others except the bottom line really. His teammates don't have to work with shepard to fight the Reapers they all can join the military or go back to doing what they do best really. They are badasses on their on and thats if Shepard doesn't get many of them killed on the Suicide Mission. Renegade shepard may not give a rats ass about the loyalty mission or his crewmates but will get the technology necessary for the SM and will survive it with many of his teammates killed.

A renegade Shepard would care as much about the loyalty missions as a paragon Shepard would, albeit perhaps for different reasons. If your peoples heads aren't in the game, they can be a liability, so for the sake of the mission, you get their heads screwed on straight. While a paragon may do it, for the sake of the individual. And while they are badasses on their own, no one on their own is going to do anything against, that includes the great Shepard. Not to mention on their own, they lack the resources to do any more than hole up in a building and try to survive. Lastly I would agree with the above poster, I don't know why anyone makes the decision before the game to stick to one path.

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...
The VS can work with the Alliance military or on their own as Spectres working with Shepard isn't necessary. Grunt can easily stay with Wrex and kill the Reapers there not seeing Shepard as worthy enough to command him. Thane is probably dead. Tali can easily stay with the Flotilla and possibly fight the geth instead of the Reapers. Its assumed Legion escaped from Cerberus is Shepard uses the renegade option and Shepard may still not accept the help of the Geth (you know being a douche bag). Garrus may or may not help not really sure on that yet. Miranda would likely help the Alliance if Shepard isn't douche bag enough to arrest her and send her to an Alliance prison. Jacob will likely go back to the Alliance or get put in jail because of douche bag shepard. It doesn't matter much with Mordin he isn't prone to many emotional responses. Jack doesn't respond well to ass holes for long periods of time and would likely laugh as the Galaxy is destroyed around them but may join if it means killing more Cerberus ass holes.

Now I can go on about this but a 100% renegade shep (Which is stupid shep) doesn't give a crap about most others except the bottom line really. His teammates don't have to work with shepard to fight the Reapers they all can join the military or go back to doing what they do best really. They are badasses on their on and thats if Shepard doesn't get many of them killed on the Suicide Mission. Renegade shepard may not give a rats ass about the loyalty mission or his crewmates but will get the technology necessary for the SM and will survive it with many of his teammates killed.

The assumption that Shepard only picks the renegade or only picks the paragon is severely limiting your roleplaying scope so I suggested looking beyond that. Pro-cerberus Shepard does not have to sell Legion. 

...and you just called renegade stupid? Yeah...I'm gonna back away before I go into renegade tangent mode. Suffice to say I disagree. And most of those people on your list of "no longer working for Shep!" can also be dead. So obviously Shep's still gonna have new peeps. Liara is obsessed with Shep no matter how he/she treats her. She'll stay with him no matter what. Ash/Kaidan have a duty to the alliance. That's already 2 companions. Garrus? Maybe even if he doesn't like Shepard he just wants to see it through and knows no one else gets the job done as well. Tali...she probably would stay on the flotila I'll give you that. Grunt? Even jerkwad Shepard who can't stand him is still his battlemaster (or he might be dead). Jack? I...kill off Jack so I really couldn't care less what the hell she does. Miranda? If she doesn't respect Shepard she might be planning to work with him so she can betray him to TIM later (if Shep's not pro-Cerberus) or because of TIM's orders (if Shep is pro-cerberus). It's not difficult for them to stay despite not liking Shepard. You don't have to like someone to work with them. There are bigger things at stake then worrying about working with the person you dislike. (which is why all my Sheps don't care about the VS working with them. More bodies to throw at the Reapers? Heck yeah!) 

My whole point was that a pure Renegade shep isn't a smart playthrough and it would be difficult for Bioware to have the game revolve around that. Almost the same goes with a pure paragon shep. Pure paragon is stupid but it still allows for Bioware to keep the squadmates. At the same time people like Wrex, Grunt and Jack wouldn't really like that Shepard much other than the fact that he or she kicks all kinds of ass which will earn respect from Wrex and Grunt.

Am I saying that Bioware shouldn't plan for that? No I am saying that it would be difficult as hell to do that during a trilogy like Mass Effect.

[redbaron76]

Because that person is a troll looking toi agitate people with irrelevant opinion. I kind of doubt that Ryzaki even played the game at ful renegade or if he played the game at all, he is just complaining and being imature.

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...
My whole point was that a pure Renegade shep isn't a smart playthrough and it would be difficult for Bioware to have the game revolve around that. Almost the same goes with a pure paragon shep. Pure paragon is stupid but it still allows for Bioware to keep the squadmates. At the same time people like Wrex, Grunt and Jack wouldn't really like that Shepard much other than the fact that he or she kicks all kinds of ass which will earn respect from Wrex and Grunt.

Am I saying that Bioware shouldn't plan for that? No I am saying that it would be difficult as hell to do that during a trilogy like Mass Effect.

And you say this like pure paragon Shepard is a smart playthrough. It's not. 

Except of course BW assumes the player had a pure renegade import for the default ME2 world. So...yeah. 

Wrex is dead, Grunt and Jack can be dead. 

So why should they be able to plan for the character's deaths (a viable option they give the player) but not for them not being on friendly terms with Shepard? (another viable option they give the player). 

You don't think that's a little inconsistent? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 août 2011 - 12:09 .

[1136342t54_]

Sepewrath wrote...
A renegade Shepard would care as much about the loyalty missions as a paragon Shepard would, albeit perhaps for different reasons. If your peoples heads aren't in the game, they can be a liability, so for the sake of the mission, you get their heads screwed on straight. While a paragon may do it, for the sake of the individual. And while they are badasses on their own, no one on their own is going to do anything against, that includes the great Shepard. Not to mention on their own, they lack the resources to do any more than hole up in a building and try to survive. Lastly I would agree with the above poster, I don't know why anyone makes the decision before the game to stick to one path.

My whole point like I said before was basically to show why Bioware to make consequences and even positives for a pure stupid Renegade playthrough would be difficult as hell but they could do it.

I saw pure Renegade shep as a ends justify the means, partially psychopathic, douchebag, quick way out type of shepard. That type of shepard is likely to go the simple route and just get the technology necessary to win the battle and go in to eliminate the threat quickly. Its not like Shepard hasn't done crap like that and won really.

I wasn't really saying that the others should go it on their own. I actually supported they needed help but they don't need Shepard at all. Like I said Tali can go to the Flotilla, VS can work with the Alliance, Grunt can work with Wrex and the Krogan, Samara can work with the Asari,  Liara is the Shadow Broker and has a small army working for her, Garrus can work with the Turian military etc. Shepard was never really the only game in town but working with a pure renegade shepard who may or may not sacrifice his teammates or teammates species to defeat the Reapers to put humanity on top isn't the best way to fight the Reapers. They wouldn't trust a pure Renegade Shepard and would likely see a pure paragon shepard as to idealistic for this but they may still work with that Shepard.

[Ryzaki]

Really?

You think Grunt a Krogan would want to work with someone he sees as idealistic? Paragon Shepard to most Krogan would be seen as weak (until he took out the guns at least). Renegade Shepard is the one who would be respected.

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...
And you say this like pure paragon Shepard is a smart playthrough. It's not. 

Except of course BW assumes the player had a pure renegade import for the default ME2 world. So...yeah. 

Wrex is dead, Grunt and Jack can be dead. 

So why should they be able to plan for the character's deaths (a viable option they give the player) but not for them not being on friendly terms with Shepard? (another viable option they give the player). 

You don't think that's a little inconsistent? 

I am not trying to be a **** but did you read my post?

I said the same thing pretty much goes for the paragon playthrough. A pure paragon playthrough isn't smart either.

Did I say they can't plan for the players deaths? No I said it would be difficult to plan for a entirely stupid Renegade or Paragon playthrough (albeit the paragon is a little easier).

Seriously I hope your not purposely ignoring me because if you are then I'm wasting my time.

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...

Really?

You think Grunt a Krogan would want to work with someone he sees as idealistic? Paragon Shepard to most Krogan would be seen as weak (until he took out the guns at least). Renegade Shepard is the one who would be respected.

Read my post again please. Actually I'll make it easier for you.

pure paragon shepard as to idealistic for this but they may still work with that Shepard.

may is the key word since they may not work with pure paragon shepard.

[Goneaviking]

Ryzaki wrote...

Really?

You think Grunt a Krogan would want to work with someone he sees as idealistic? Paragon Shepard to most Krogan would be seen as weak (until he took out the guns at least). Renegade Shepard is the one who would be respected.

I don't know about that; on Omega paragon Shepard threatened to break the legs of a dodgy merchant and later on stared down a surly krogan drunk and beat a couple a couple of turian muggers senseless while his guns were all safely stored on Normandy.

Grunt, or Wrex for that matter, happily go along with Shepard because he can promise them the toughest fight. I don't think idealism is necessarily a discouragement for them.

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...
may is the key word since they may not work with pure paragon shepard.

And why would that not apply for a renegade Shepard? Pure renegade maybe cutthroat and brutish but they would still work with him as well. There's no reason that should only apply for one Shepard. 

1136342t54 wrote...
I am not trying to be a **** but did you read my post?

I said the same thing pretty much goes for the paragon playthrough. A pure paragon playthrough isn't smart either.

Did I say they can't plan for the players deaths? No I said it would be difficult to plan for a entirely stupid Renegade or Paragon playthrough (albeit the paragon is a little easier).

Seriously I hope your not purposely ignoring me because if you are then I'm wasting my time.

You're not don't worry about it. I jumped the gun. I'm sick of hearing the renegade bashing on these forums and I took it out on you. I apologize. 

And it's not difficult to plan for an entirely stupid playthrough where they got everyone save 2 people killed? Because they sort of have to do that already. 

I'm trying to point out that they already have to deal with various variables. They can't just say "oh you're automatically friends!" ...what about unloyal characters? What if their mission was failed? What if they lost the loyalty after a fight? All those variables need to be accounted for. Adding a dislike/like button on top of that isn't a big deal. 

Goneaviking wrote...
I don't know about that; on Omega paragon Shepard threatened to break the legs of a dodgy merchant and later on stared down a surly krogan drunk and beat a couple a couple of turian muggers senseless while his guns were all safely stored on Normandy.

Grunt, or Wrex for that matter, happily go along with Shepard because he can promise them the toughest fight. I don't think idealism is necessarily a discouragement for them.

True. But neither does Renegade Shep's crassness (Grunt still goes along with Shepard as does Wrex out of respect for Shep's abilities). 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 août 2011 - 12:26 .

[Sepewrath]

Agreed, the paragon Shepard puts a whole in Virmire the same way a Renegade does and that's what they respect. In fact, Grunt doesn't like the Renegade decision to keep the base, but does like Paragon decision, which is sold as idealism in the dialogue.

[redbaron76]

You also have to remember that there are certain default thing that bioware takes in effect when creating scenarious in their games. And apparently one of those defaults is that shepard is paragon and friend with all of his crew mates. So it is a bit antirenagade. But then who wants to be renegade certainly not me.

[Sepewrath]

1136342t54 wrote...
I wasn't really saying that the others should go it on their own. I actually supported they needed help but they don't need Shepard at all. Like I said Tali can go to the Flotilla, VS can work with the Alliance, Grunt can work with Wrex and the Krogan, Samara can work with the Asari,  Liara is the Shadow Broker and has a small army working for her, Garrus can work with the Turian military etc. Shepard was never really the only game in town

Well Shep has been the only game in town, they others weren't actively
doing anything. If Garrus was working with the Turians, Tali the Quarians etc in ME1, everyone
would be dead or dying right now lol. But they do need Shepard as much
as Shepard needs them, no individual group would be anymore than cannon
fodder and I think an alliance would work better with a Council like
situation on the Normandy vs everyone calling themselves working
together, but really focusing on their own interest.

[Ryzaki]

Sepewrath wrote...

Agreed, the paragon Shepard puts a whole in Virmire the same way a Renegade does and that's what they respect. In fact, Grunt doesn't like the Renegade decision to keep the base, but does like Paragon decision, which is sold as idealism in the dialogue.

He doesn't like it because it involves giving it to TIM who didn't bother fighting on his own for it. 

It wasn't idealism. He just thought TIM was weak. 

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...

And why would that not apply for a renegade Shepard? Pure renegade maybe cutthroat and brutish but they would still work with him as well. There's no reason that should only apply for one Shepard. 

Because Renegade Shepard likely killed them.1

You're not don't worry about it. I jumped the gun. I'm sick of hearing the renegade bashing on these forums and I took it out on you. I apologize. 

And it's not difficult to plan for an entirely stupid playthrough where they got everyone save 2 people killed? Because they sort of have to do that already. 

I'm trying to point out that they already have to deal with various variables. They can't just say "oh you're automatically friends!" ...what about unloyal characters? What if their mission was failed? What if they lost the loyalty after a fight? All those variables need to be accounted for. Adding a dislike/like button on top of that isn't a big deal. 

Then we are getting into the deal with the ME2 VS. Adding a dislike button isn't that simple. If they want the VS to stay with shepard and be important in the story then that means their is dialog options that need to be put in there regarding the interactions between Shepard and the VS or anyother character. I mean I am sure that others would like to play a total Renegade while still having some interactions with the crew. Bioware have to account for that variable also.

Now regarding Horizon like I said I take it as Ashley feeling betrayed because someone who is a Alliance Hero, her commanding officer and the symbol for all things good about humanity works with a group the galaxy deams terrorists. No matter what type of playthrough your VS will feel betrayed on the meer fact that one of their own worked for the enemy.

[1136342t54_]

Sepewrath wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...
I wasn't really saying that the others should go it on their own. I actually supported they needed help but they don't need Shepard at all. Like I said Tali can go to the Flotilla, VS can work with the Alliance, Grunt can work with Wrex and the Krogan, Samara can work with the Asari,  Liara is the Shadow Broker and has a small army working for her, Garrus can work with the Turian military etc. Shepard was never really the only game in town

Well Shep has been the only game in town, they others weren't actively
doing anything. If Garrus was working with the Turians, Tali the Quarians etc in ME1, everyone
would be dead or dying right now lol. But they do need Shepard as much
as Shepard needs them, no individual group would be anymore than cannon
fodder and I think an alliance would work better with a Council like
situation on the Normandy vs everyone calling themselves working
together, but really focusing on their own interest.

I'm talking about ME3 specifically.

I could actually accept them all working with each other in ME3 even if they all don't care much for one another but it seems in ME3 that there will be a few wars even during the Reaper invasion due to differences in opinions. Shepard would have to bring them together for the time being. Bioware kind of did say how Shepard can die to your choices in ME2. They may take it farther than how they did it in ME2 (which wasn't exactly how I pictured).

A total Renegade shep will either go a little paragade and try to find more ways to save the galaxy other than using the most quick solution but the best one or just try the quickest way to achieve the goal and get screwed over in the end.. Paragons have the same problem since they chose the most moral solution which is stupid in itself many times.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 12 août 2011 - 12:39 .

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...
Because Renegade Shepard likely killed them.

Uh...no? 

There's a renegade persuade and a renegade option in everyconversation just about. Not to mention it's quite easy to get disloyal party members to surive. Heck you only need 4 loyal people to pull off a No One Left Behind.  

Then we are getting into the deal with the ME2 VS. Adding a dislike button isn't that simple. If they want the VS to stay with shepard and be important in the story then that means their is dialog options that need to be put in there regarding the interactions between Shepard and the VS or anyother character. I mean I am sure that others would like to play a total Renegade while still having some interactions with the crew. Bioware have to account for that variable also.

Now regarding Horizon like I said I take it as Ashley feeling betrayed because someone who is a Alliance Hero, her commanding officer and the symbol for all things good about humanity works with a group the galaxy deams terrorists. No matter what type of playthrough your VS will feel betrayed on the meer fact that one of their own worked for the enemy.

And that dialogue can be business like with slight flavoring based off friendly/unfriendly. Sort of like...hm...what was that game again? Oh yes the Dragon Age series! They don't need to talk about how buddy buddy they are in every dialogue. That's ridculous (and annoying). 

And Dragon Age 2 ironically did this (to a point with rivalry). And you can already play a total renegade while having interactions with the crew (even the ME1 crew) renegade =/= dislike. They're not the same thing. There's always gonna be a renegade version of interaction. I wouldn't mind having certain characters refuse to talk to you about anything personal (or make it brief) if they disliked you though. More RP options are nice.  

Which is perfectly fine. Demanding why my character didn't contact them however? No. "losing you was like losing a limb?" ...Uh...that's not exactly something you say to someone whose just a commander. 

Symbol of all things good about humanity? Wasn't aware that punching reporters in the face was a good thing about humanity. Silly me. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 août 2011 - 12:40 .

[Sundance31us]

Ryzaki wrote...
He doesn't like it because it involves giving it to TIM who didn't bother fighting on his own for it. 

It wasn't idealism. He just thought TIM was weak.

I think he enjoyed the explosion too.