1476 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Sundance31us wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
He doesn't like it because it involves giving it to TIM who didn't bother fighting on his own for it. 

It wasn't idealism. He just thought TIM was weak.

I think he enjoyed the explosion too.

True how could I forget that.

I have to profess to preferring it myself. The radiation pulse is nowhere near as awesome. 

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...


Uh...no? 

There's a renegade persuade and a renegade option in everyconversation just about. Not to mention it's quite easy to get disloyal party members to surive. Heck you only need 4 loyal people to pull off a No One Left Behind.  

Which is more renegade though. Convincing Wrex to work with you which may or may not work or just play it safe and kill him? Which is more renegade letting Grunt stay in the Tank not taking the risk of letting him out or letting him out and risking the possbility you would get seriously injured?

Then we are getting into the deal with the ME2 VS. Adding a dislike button isn't that simple. If they want the VS to stay with shepard and be important in the story then that means their is dialog options that need to be put in there regarding the interactions between Shepard and the VS or anyother character. I mean I am sure that others would like to play a total Renegade while still having some interactions with the crew. Bioware have to account for that variable also.

Now regarding Horizon like I said I take it as Ashley feeling betrayed because someone who is a Alliance Hero, her commanding officer and the symbol for all things good about humanity works with a group the galaxy deams terrorists. No matter what type of playthrough your VS will feel betrayed on the meer fact that one of their own worked for the enemy.

And that dialogue can be business like with slight flavoring based off friendly/unfriendly. Sort of like...hm...what was that game again? Oh yes the Dragon Age series! They don't need to talk about how buddy buddy they are in every dialogue. That's ridculous (and annoying). 

What game have you been playing exactly?

Actually one of the complaints in ME2 was the low amount of party banter. Hell even when Shepard is talking to a squad mate it wouldn't be them talking about the old days much unless you want to initiate it.

And Dragon Age 2 ironically did this (to a point with rivalry). And you can already play a total renegade while having interactions with the crew (even the ME1 crew) renegade =/= dislike. They're not the same thing. There's always gonna be a renegade version of interaction. I wouldn't mind having certain characters refuse to talk to you about anything personal (or make it brief) if they disliked you though. More RP options are nice.  

The difference is that there isn't any real meter of rivalry or dislike in either game. In Dragon Age 2 they did it better. No one hated you they just didn't agree with you but respected Hawke. That is what I've been saying that could happen with Shepard and the crew which would make more sense.

Which is perfectly fine. Demanding why my character didn't contact them however? No. "losing you was like losing a limb?" ...Uh...that's not exactly something you say to someone whose just a commander. 

Symbol of all things good about humanity? Wasn't aware that punching reporters in the face was a good thing about humanity. Silly me. 

Losing your Commanding officer is basically like losing a limb when you think about it. They are basically the head of the ship and everyone relys on them for guidance. Without the leader the rest of them was likely loss and felt a bit depressed or pissed off that somone could actually catch all of them off guard and kill one of the most deadly humanoids in the galaxy.

Countless times Shepard was said to be a symbol for humanity don't deny it. If you played ME1 and ME2 you would have heard of the symbol talk.

[1136342t54_]

Now I am pretty much ready to call it quits with this little debate since I didn't plan on doing this today and it is always annoying to keep up with these arguments when only part of you really care about continuing this lol.

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...
Which is more renegade though. Convincing Wrex to work with you which may or may not work or just play it safe and kill him? Which is more renegade letting Grunt stay in the Tank not taking the risk of letting him out or letting him out and risking the possbility you would get seriously injured?

You do realize he treats renegade Shepard and paragon Shepard pretty similarily right?

More renegade would be letting him out. If he's a threat you take him down, if he's not you have a battering ram against the reapers. But of course renegades vary.

What game have you been playing exactly?

Actually one of the complaints in ME2 was the low amount of party banter. Hell even when Shepard is talking to a squad mate it wouldn't be them talking about the old days much unless you want to initiate it.

I wonder the same. So Tali didn't mention how much she liked Shepard when my Shep was speaking to her? Garrus didn't reminiss fondly about old times when I spoke to them?

It's not a choice. Recruiting Garrus gets you the old times dialogue (same for Tali). And that dialogue assumes they and Shepard are friends.

The difference is that there isn't any real meter of rivalry or dislike in either game. In Dragon Age 2 they did it better. No one hated you they just didn't agree with you but respected Hawke. That is what I've been saying that could happen with Shepard and the crew which would make more sense.

There wasn't a real meter of dislike in DAO? Uh...did you play DAO? DA2 true there was no real dislike. There was rivalry however which did have a different feel from friendship.

Losing your Commanding officer is basically like losing a limb when you think about it. They are basically the head of the ship and everyone relys on them for guidance. Without the leader the rest of them was likely loss and felt a bit depressed or pissed off that somone could actually catch all of them off guard and kill one of the most deadly humanoids in the galaxy.

Countless times Shepard was said to be a symbol for humanity don't deny it. If you played ME1 and ME2 you would have heard of the symbol talk.

I'll admit to never being in the military so I'll take your word for it. Still strikes me as odd that you'd ache after a CO that barely gave you the time of day unless it was to bark an offer.

A symbol sure. But trying to act like Shepard is some pure and holy figure is ridculous. Shepard has flaws as the VS well knows. Frankly the whole "best humanity has to offer." spiel just makes me add more ticks to my Shep Sue box. It's overflowing as it is. Shep doesn't need more.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 août 2011 - 01:10 .

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...
You do realize he treats renegade Shepard and paragon Shepard pretty similarily right?

How is that even related to what I just posted and did I even deny that?

More renegade would be letting him out. If he's a threat you take him down, if he's not you have a battering ram against the reapers. But of course renegades vary.

Actually from what the game pretty much tells you is the simplest option would be to keep Grunt in the tank. Why do anything else Grunt wasn't even part of the mission.

Killing Wrex is the most renegade decision since you don't know if he will kill you or not.

I wonder the same. So Tali didn't mention how much she liked Shepard when my Shep was speaking to her?

When? On Freedom's Progress Tali was surprised you were alive and said its good to have Shep back. 

Garrus didn't reminiss fondly about old times when I spoke to them?

Garrus reminissed fondly sure but was about it was more about how they kicked Saren and Sovereign's ass. Who wouldn't reminiss fondly on that?

It's not a choice. Recruiting Garrus gets you the old times dialogue (same for Tali). And that dialogue assumes they and Shepard are friends.

It kind of is. You don't have to talk them really and you forgot about Joker since you do have to activate the dialog with him. Also did I say you always had to activate the dialog? I never said it like it was a fact its just that it didn't happen to Shepard much.

There wasn't a real meter of dislike in DAO? Uh...did you play DAO? DA2 true there was no real dislike. There was rivalry however which did have a different feel from friendship.

I was referring to ME and ME2.

I'll admit to never being in the military so I'll take your word for it. Still strikes me as odd that you'd ache after a CO that barely gave you the time of day unless it was to bark an offer.

A symbol sure. But trying to act like Shepard is some pure and holy figure is ridculous. Shepard has flaws as the VS well knows. Frankly the whole "best humanity has to offer." spiel just makes me add more ticks to my Shep Sue box. It's overflowing as it is. Shep doesn't need more.  

Its not about the squad mates believing the talk its the fact that a large portion of the galaxy believes it especially humans. By working with Cerberus it can be seen as Shepard effectively betraying the Alliance and Humanity. As a result they are betraying the VS.  

[1136342t54_]

Now I'm done lol.

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...
How is that even related to what I just posted and did I even deny that?

Wasn't your whole point about how it would be difficult to implement differences based on how Shep treated them in the past? Yet that right there is an example of BW doing so.

Actually from what the game pretty much tells you is the simplest option would be to keep Grunt in the tank. Why do anything else Grunt wasn't even part of the mission.

The simplest option =! the renegade option.

The most pragamtic thing to do is to open up the tank and see if you can use him. Paragon or not.

Killing Wrex is the most renegade decision since you don't know if he will kill you or not.

As is threatening him to back down. I can do this all day. There is no single "most renegade" choice that all renegades pick. That's the whole point in BW offering choice

When? On Freedom's Progress Tali was surprised you were alive and said its good to have Shep back.

When you're recruiting her during her recruitment mission. Even with a renegade Shepard she's very friendly and amicable (even if you gave Veetor over to Cerberus...really it boggles the mind).

Garrus reminissed fondly sure but was about it was more about how they kicked Saren and Sovereign's ass. Who wouldn't reminiss fondly on that?

You'd reminiss fondly with someone who gave you racist remarks and pretty much ignored you? 

It kind of is. You don't have to talk them really and you forgot about Joker since you do have to activate the dialog with him. Also did I say you always had to activate the dialog? I never said it like it was a fact its just that it didn't happen to Shepard much.

You kind of do have to talk to them to get those nice upgrades so you don't lose people during the Omega 4 relay mission! And Garrus' "just like old times" dialogue starts when you recruit him (as does Tali's).

I was referring to ME and ME2.

...In that case..huh? I wasn't saying ME or ME2 had a dislike meter. They did have dialogue choices where Shepard could express dislike.

Its not about the squad mates believing the talk its the fact that a large portion of the galaxy believes it especially humans. By working with Cerberus it can be seen as Shepard effectively betraying the Alliance and Humanity. As a result they are betraying the VS.  

So...the squadmates don't have their own minds and can come up with how they see Shepard on heir own? And I don't see how they're betraying the VS. Shep owes the VS nothing.

[ubermensch007]

Another thing that get's me about how the Virmire Survivor reacts to Shepard and the company he keeps on Horizon.Is that they seem to forget where they are.When they first encounter Commander Shepard once again: The TERMINUS SYSTEMS... (The same place they last saw him)

It never seems to occur to the VS, that for all they know, Shepard Commander could have been trying to get back to Alliance and or Citadel Space for the last two years.But Noooooooooooooooooooo; they jump to the conclusion that Shepard has "betrayed all that they once stood for." When he could be just like Jude Law's character in Cold Mountain.Who went on a Great Odyssey, in order to return home to his loved one.

What's up with that!?! I mean last time I checked.John Shepard got spaced and he is not Superman.So he can't propel himself through the vaccum of space under his own power like the Man of Tomorrow can... It isn't a bunch of hooey to believe that he could have been in acoma for the last two years.What with being bombarded by cosmic rays and what not.For God only knows how long, until a rescue ship retrieved him.

[redbaron76]

But he did not try to get back to alliance and he did not contact the alliance. So either way you look at it VS is right so get over it and accept it.

[Iakus]

redbaron76 wrote...

But he did not try to get back to alliance and he did not contact the alliance. So either way you look at it VS is right so get over it and accept it.

Mine did.  

He talked to that nice C-Sec officer Bailey who got him declared Not Dead

He talked to the Council, who thought he was crazy, but offered him his Spectreship back so he can go around breaking all sorts of rules anyway, provided he stayed in the Terminus, which Spectres don't mean much anyway

He talked to Councilor Anderson and Ambassador Udina.  Anderson was understandably cagey around Shepard.  Can't really blame him for that, what with the Cerberus connection.  Udina was grouchy as always, but thought Shepard being a Spectre again could be a good thing.

Pity that never comes up.  Just "I spent two years in some kind of coma while Cerberus rebuilt me"

Such an artificial comflict

[Made Nightwing]

ubermensch007 wrote...

Another thing that get's me about how the Virmire Survivor reacts to Shepard and the company he keeps on Horizon.Is that they seem to forget where they are.When they first encounter Commander Shepard once again: The TERMINUS SYSTEMS... (The same place they last saw him)

It never seems to occur to the VS, that for all they know, Shepard Commander could have been trying to get back to Alliance and or Citadel Space for the last two years.But Noooooooooooooooooooo; they jump to the conclusion that Shepard has "betrayed all that they once stood for." When he could be just like Jude Law's character in Cold Mountain.Who went on a Great Odyssey, in order to return home to his loved one.

What's up with that!?! I mean last time I checked.John Shepard got spaced and he is not Superman.So he can't propel himself through the vaccum of space under his own power like the Man of Tomorrow can... It isn't a bunch of hooey to believe that he could have been in acoma for the last two years.What with being bombarded by cosmic rays and what not.For God only knows how long, until a rescue ship retrieved him.

DO YOU EVEN KNOW HOW COMA'S WORK??!!!!!!!

For someone to survive in a coma they need, a) oxygen, nutrition, c) hydration. Without these things, the human body dies. You honestly believe Shepard could float around for TWO YEARS without any of these things?

[Ryzaki]

@Made Nightwing: I totally read that as comma's and spent a good five minutes laughing my ass off. XD

[ubermensch007]

Made Nightwing wrote... DO YOU EVEN KNOW HOW COMA'S WORK??!!!!!!!

For someone to survive in a coma they need, a) oxygen, nutrition, c) hydration. Without
these things, the human body dies. You honestly believe Shepard could  float around for TWO YEARS without any of these things?../../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png

Err... NO -- I do not believe that Shepard drifted in space for two years.What I was saying was.That after a ship retreived his nearly lifeless body from the vaccum of space.He could have been in a coma-like state for the duration of time that it took to revive him and repair his injuries.If your Shepard is a biotic; for all we know and the VS.He could have encased himself in a life support field. (If it is even possible for a biotic to do such a thing.)

Modifié par ubermensch007, 12 août 2011 - 05:21 .

[Siansonea]

ubermensch007 wrote...

Another thing that get's me about how the Virmire Survivor reacts to Shepard and the company he keeps on Horizon.Is that they seem to forget where they are.When they first encounter Commander Shepard once again: The TERMINUS SYSTEMS... (The same place they last saw him)

It never seems to occur to the VS, that for all they know, Shepard Commander could have been trying to get back to Alliance and or Citadel Space for the last two years.But Noooooooooooooooooooo; they jump to the conclusion that Shepard has "betrayed all that they once stood for." When he could be just like Jude Law's character in Cold Mountain.Who went on a Great Odyssey, in order to return home to his loved one.

What's up with that!?! I mean last time I checked.John Shepard got spaced and he is not Superman.So he can't propel himself through the vaccum of space under his own power like the Man of Tomorrow can... It isn't a bunch of hooey to believe that he could have been in acoma for the last two years.What with being bombarded by cosmic rays and what not.For God only knows how long, until a rescue ship retrieved him.

Who the hell is John Shepard? Never met him.

"And another thing that gets me..." blah blah blah. Another thing that gets me about Shepard is that she is WORKING FOR CERBERUS. So yeah, get mad at the VS all you want over assumptions he or she did or did not make, but NOTHING the VS did or didn't do is as AWFUL as WORKING FOR CERBERUS. Now that's just math.

[Made Nightwing]

Ryzaki wrote...

@Made Nightwing: I totally read that as comma's and spent a good five minutes laughing my ass off. XD

I don't know why, but I have a tendency to insert the belonging   " 's" into every word I write. My shrink says it indicates a desire to belong.

[Iakus]

Siansonea II wrote...


"And another thing that gets me..." blah blah blah. Another thing that gets me about Shepard is that she is WORKING FOR CERBERUS. So yeah, get mad at the VS all you want over assumptions he or she did or did not make, but NOTHING the VS did or didn't do is as AWFUL as WORKING FOR CERBERUS. Now that's just math.

Well, it's a good thing Shepard (my Shepard, at least) isn't working for Cerberus, isn't it? 

He's temporarilly working alongside them.  Teaming up against a  threat even bigger than Cerberus.  Ya know, the Reapers.  Using the Collectors as pawns.  Just as they used the geth last time 'round.

But eventually, Cerberus won't be the lesser evil.  Form the sound of things, that'll happen in ME3. 

[1136342t54_]

ubermensch007 wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote... DO YOU EVEN KNOW HOW COMA'S WORK??!!!!!!!

For someone to survive in a coma they need, a) oxygen, nutrition, c) hydration. Without
these things, the human body dies. You honestly believe Shepard could  float around for TWO YEARS without any of these things?../../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png

Err... NO -- I do not believe that Shepard drifted in space for two years.What I was saying was.That after a ship retreived his nearly lifeless body from the vaccum of space.He could have been in a coma-like state for the duration of time that it took to revive him and repair his injuries.If your Shepard is a biotic; for all we know and the VS.He could have encased himself in a life support field. (If it is even possible for a biotic to do such a thing.)

Shepard was never alive, near death nor encased some type of field. Shepard was dead period. When the Shadow Broker had Shepard the Commander was dead. When Cerberus had Shepard the Commander was dead. The whole point of the Lazarus project was too bring Shep back to life.

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...

Wasn't your whole point about how it would be difficult to implement differences based on how Shep treated them in the past? Yet that right there is an example of BW doing so.

But isn't that a perfect example of BW not taking an account of paragaon and renegade something non of us really support? Actually when I think about Grunt didn't really respect to many of sheps renegade decisions and disagreed with them. Mainly during his rite and regarding the Cerberus base.

The simplest option =! the renegade option.

The most pragamtic thing to do is to open up the tank and see if you can use him. Paragon or not.

Whats your point? I pretty much said the 100% stupid renegade would keep Grunt in the tank.

As is threatening him to back down. I can do this all day. There is no single "most renegade" choice that all renegades pick. That's the whole point in BW offering choice

When has shepard threatening wrex to back down worked? Their is a renegade option to convince him to work with you but its never a threatening option at all. 

When you're recruiting her during her recruitment mission. Even with a renegade Shepard she's very friendly and amicable (even if you gave Veetor over to Cerberus...really it boggles the mind).

Its been a few years its likely Tali doesn't hold a grudge with Shepard and when its renegade shepard doing this I'd see it as Tali being used to dealing with Shepard and pretty much expecting that much from renegade Shepard. Getting pissed wouldn't do to much about it.

Also I never really saw her as very friendly but cooperative and willing to get help during a life or death situation.

You'd reminiss fondly with someone who gave you racist remarks and pretty much ignored you? 

When that person you pretty much fought with and helped save the galaxy with then I wouldn't be too against reminissing but I would be reminissing fondly regarding the fact that we saved the galaxy not because this person is my friend or something.

Their are a lot of explanations for these actions if you would just think about it. I'm not saying the way bioware did it is perfect but it isn't so OC that I would accuse Bioware of  destroying my rp experience.

You kind of do have to talk to them to get those nice upgrades so you don't lose people during the Omega 4 relay mission! And Garrus' "just like old times" dialogue starts when you recruit him (as does Tali's).

Really? I've never got into a old times convo with him while asking Garrus or Tali about upgrades.

...In that case..huh? I wasn't saying ME or ME2 had a dislike meter. They did have dialogue choices where Shepard could express dislike.

I was saying how a DA2 rivalry meter is better than plane dislike for shep. Even if you got someone total rivalvry it they never hated you they just disagreed with you heavily but respected you. Thats how I see it instead of using a dislike button and having everyone want to punch you by ME3 and only work with you out of necessity.

So...the squadmates don't have their own minds and can come up with how they see Shepard on heir own? And I don't see how they're betraying the VS. Shep owes the VS nothing.

How the hell did you get that out of what I said? What I was saying that the fact the general population of the Galaxy especially humans and the Alliance sees shepard as a symbol for humanity as a whole and he is a ALLIANCE OFFICER/SPECTRE Shepard working with Cerberus is a betrayal to the Alliance military, Council Spectres, Council, Humanity and as a result your Alliance crew members who haven't joined cerberus.

Its not about emotional trauma or them being BFFs (something you consistently say) its the simple fact that Shepard joined a known Terrorist Organization that is enemies of the Council and Systems Alliance Military.

[1136342t54_]

iakus wrote...

Well, it's a good thing Shepard (my Shepard, at least) isn't working for Cerberus, isn't it? 

He's temporarilly working alongside them.  Teaming up against a  threat even bigger than Cerberus.  Ya know, the Reapers.  Using the Collectors as pawns.  Just as they used the geth last time 'round.

But eventually, Cerberus won't be the lesser evil.  Form the sound of things, that'll happen in ME3. 

That's how I played my shepard to the problem is that even though you know this, your crew knows this  and hell even Cerberus knows this doesn't mean that the whole Galaxy won't see it differently.

I mean the Council even through all their faults did put the right way. They thought shepard was dead but now reports are around that shep is alive and working for Cerberus a enemy of the Council and Systems Alliance. 

[Wynne]

Siansonea II wrote...

"And
another thing that gets me..." blah blah blah. Another thing that gets
me about Shepard is that she is WORKING FOR CERBERUS. So yeah, get mad
at the VS all you want over assumptions he or she did or did not make,
but NOTHING the VS did or didn't do is as AWFUL as WORKING FOR CERBERUS.
Now that's just math.

Your math is wrong. Cerberus was the only group willing to do something about the Collectors.

Did the VS solve the problem? Save the day? Do the impossible and carry out the suicide mission? Did the Alliance send out the fleet through the Omega 4 relay and stop the Reapers' plans? Would they have? The answer to every single one of those questions is a resounding NO. They all would've been late at best, resulting in hundreds or thousands more deaths; maybe even something worse.

Shepard did what was necessary to save lives--nothing more, nothing less. Still, when the VS is all like, "I heard you were working for Cerberus, what the hell?! You're not the Shepard I once knew!" I can understand. Maybe they were subconsciously worried you got implanted with the mind-control chip Miranda wanted to put in, or that you "came back wrong" like the old horror movie tropes. Or maybe they were just plain thrown; scared of not walking the line as an Alliance soldier. I can forgive what they did on Horizon if I'm fair about it, especially since their letters show obvious remorse.

But "As awful as working for Cerberus" my ass. As awful as saving the galaxy from a Reaper plot by working for Cerberus, more like. The VS gave you some high-and-mighty bs on Horizon, but when it comes down to it, Shepard did it because saving lives was more important than feeling shiny and perfect and staying on the paladin's version of the high ground. I'd wager even the VS will understand that by the time Shepard sees them again in ME3.

I don't get why people want to defend the VS by demonizing Shepard. It doesn't really work.

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...

*snip*

*sighs* You know what? At this point we're not gonna agree. You're gonna to insist that it's okay that BW offers the choice for Shepard to express dislike of certain charaters yet in the next game that never happened regardless of player choice. I can't be bothered arguing about this anymore. I'll just have to stick to killing off anyone my Shepard isn't friends with and calling it a day. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 août 2011 - 11:55 .

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...
*sighs* You know what? At this point we're not gonna agree. You're gonna to insist that it's okay that BW offers the choice for Shepard to express dislike of certain charaters yet in the next game that never happened regardless of player choice. I can't be bothered arguing about this anymore. I'll just have to stick to killing off anyone my Shepard isn't friends with and calling it a day. 

Really? I thought when I say multiple times that "I don't think what Bioware did was perfect." or "What Bioware didn't do was okay." or "I'm giving explanations that can explain the reasons why the NPC are acting this way." Is me saying its okay for Bioware to do this?

Well I guess you know more about me than I do since I don't think what Bioware did was perfect but it doesn't screw with my game experience. 

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...
Really? I thought when I say multiple times that "I don't think what Bioware did was perfect." or "What Bioware didn't do was okay." or "I'm giving explanations that can explain the reasons why the NPC are acting this way." Is me saying its okay for Bioware to do this?

Well I guess you know more about me than I do since I don't think what Bioware did was perfect but it doesn't screw with my game experience. 

Ugh. Sorry. I'm angry about another thred. 

It screwed with mine and it irked me. But there are ways around that. I'm not fond of killing characters I like just because my Shep doesn't but if it'll avoid my Shep being OOC...oh well. 

[1136342t54_]

Wynne wrote...
Your math is wrong. Cerberus was the only group willing to do something about the Collectors. 

Did the VS solve the problem? Save the day? Do the impossible and carry out the suicide mission? Did the Alliance send out the fleet through the Omega 4 relay and stop the Reapers' plans? Would they have? The answer to every single one of those questions is a resounding NO. They all would've been late at best, resulting in hundreds or thousands more deaths; maybe even something worse.

Actually the Alliance was trying to do something about this. If you played Arrival before you did the SM Hackett will tell Shepard how Alliance ships investigating these attacks have been dissappearing and were attempting to figure out how to combat the attackers.

Shepard did what was necessary to save lives--nothing more, nothing less. Still, when the VS is all like, "I heard you were working for Cerberus, what the hell?! You're not the Shepard I once knew!" I can understand. Maybe they were subconsciously worried you got implanted with the mind-control chip Miranda wanted to put in, or that you "came back wrong" like the old horror movie tropes. Or maybe they were just plain thrown; scared of not walking the line as an Alliance soldier. I can forgive what they did on Horizon if I'm fair about it, especially since their letters show obvious remorse.

But "As awful as working for Cerberus" my ass. As awful as saving the galaxy from a Reaper plot by working for Cerberus, more like. The VS gave you some high-and-mighty bs on Horizon, but when it comes down to it, Shepard did it because saving lives was more important than feeling shiny and perfect and staying on the paladin's version of the high ground. I'd wager even the VS will understand that by the time Shepard sees them again in ME3.

The problem is the VS at that time had a small amount of info to work on regarding shepards true motives. To the VS Shepard is supposedly alive after 2 years and working with Cerberus. Now that could mean many things. One possibility is that Shepard was never dead and worse was working with Cerberus.

Actually worse possible thing is that shepard arranged the attack to fake his own death so that he could be free to work for Cerberus. Now this one is the most extreme one but if you play a renegade shep its not impossible for a VS to think this.

Sure Shepard chose to go the dirtier route and it was the correct one but the thing is the VS doesn't exactly knows that and if the VS does then its more of a matter of aiding the enemy to fight another enemy. Technically the VS was trying to find out what was behind the missing colonies. The problem was the low amount of information they had not because they didn't want to. If Cerberus gave them the option to work with the group and find out what happened with the missing colonies they would likely say no simply because they are Alliance Marines and it would be a blatant betrayal to do this. Ashley definitely wouldn't because of her family history.

I don't get why people want to defend the VS by demonizing Shepard. It doesn't really work.

I'm not necessarily defending the VS but both the VS and Shepard is at fault obviously. The VS will likely see it from Shepard's side when they become a Spectre. They never truly had the experience of a Spectre to understand that the lines between friend and foe gets blurry.