1476 réponses à ce sujet

[rapscallioness]

@iakus: your post reminded me of this bit I read on the Kaidan fan thread. Courtesy of Caseshep, it's a write up in the New Yorker w/ Jennifer Hale coming out 8/15/2011. It's has some small, but interesting foreshadowing:

"Toward the end of her day at the studio, Hale came to a scene with a character referred to as A/K. It was the most emotional scene of the day, and also one of the most technically tricky, because of the ways that players' choices in Mass Effect 1 and 2 carry over into the new sequel.

blah blah blah, story of Virmire...

...and, in Mass Effect 2, whichever of the two was saved reappears to remonstrate with him or her. The result of that conversation which can play out in various ways, determines how the character of A/K wll interact with Shepard in Mass Effect 3.The new scene involved a tense exchange between Shepard and A/K. The first line of the scene was simple enough. "Let her/him go." but Hale had to say it multiple times, with different emphases, in order to communicate every possible state of alarm with which Shepard would react to A/K.
...
Two were growly, hateful takes, and two were hard, urgent takes.
...
She was then told that her lines had to be recorded as though she were running. "I have a question," Hale said. "It's pretty emotional for Shepard here. How big do you want it?" Walters explained that he wanted Shepard to seem like more of a "real character" in this game, a character who showed "his frailty."
...
"I want Shepard's vulnerability to come out, even though not every player will choose to experience it."
...
Hale's next line was "No!" Livingstone turned to Walters and asked, "Is this a panicked 'No' or an angry 'No'?"
"It's a" -Walters hesitated- "futile 'No.'"
Hale nodded, "No!", she said, stirringly, a moment later.
"More compassion," Livingstone said. "Less heightened."
Hales tried again, and her "No!" seemed to emerge from some alarmed, half-strangled place in her throat."

[AVPen]

Wynne wrote...

ChaplainTappman wrote...

I only feel like this is an issue with Kaidan. Ash is hurt (understandable, since the tech to bring back the dead generally doesn't exist), and suspicious when she finds out about Shepard's Cerberus connection (also understandable, considering it's Cerberus). But she's pretty reserved; "I don't trust Cerberus, and it worries me that you do," or something to that effect.

Kaidan, on the other hand, flat out calls Shepard a traitor. Twice. Even the message he sends to you if you romanced him doesn't give me the impression that he doesn't really believe that and was just speaking emotionally. No matter whether the real world or in game, I don't take kindly to people questioning my integrity.

You make a solid point. I more often saved Kaidan than Ashley, and Ashley was half the time a friend, so I guess I mostly think of Kaidan when I think of the VS. "You betrayed the Alliance, you betrayed me!"

I feel the same--I can have someone question a lot of things about me and not bat an eye, but my integrity... no. I guess it hit home with me, especially since he follows it up with a "also Cerberus might be manipulating you to think it's the Reapers when it's really them!" He words it more harshly than Ash, and I can understand why that would occur to him, but it still felt like he was insulting Shepard's intelligence there. Maybe it's the voice, but somehow it felt more fair coming from Ash than Kaidan.

I've been replaying parts of ME2 with a Shepard who saved Ashley on Virmire instead of Kaidan (ok, I sorta cheated and just Gibbed a few saves from my main "canon" playthrough  ) and it's actually kinda interesting the subtle differences that both Shepard and the two VS characters have during the Horizon encounter:


With Ashley (even if she's non-romanced), Shepard is actually a bit more subdued in his conversation with her - his words are softer, his pauses between sentences are longer almost to add emphasis to what that he's telling her, and his overall reaction just appears to be more regretful that she chooses not to believe him; while Ashley still becomes upset and angry to what she sees as a betrayal by Shepard (and given her personality and family history, that's to be expected), she also seems more conflicted about leaving Shepard than Kaidan does (there's actually a 2-3 second pause from when she says that she's an Alliance soldier and that she needs to report to the Citadel, where she just stares at Shepard and contemplates) and she actually says straight out that she's worried about Shepard being with Cerberus. 

Kaidan, on the other hand, comes across much more antagonistic towards Shepard - his words are much more loaded with accusation and even insults to Shepard's intellegence (as ChaplainTappman pointed out) and there's a, how do I put it.... almost a bitter "superiority" tone in his attitude as a Alliance soldier; Shepard's tone also has much more of an edge to it than when he talks with Ashley, a near-visible anger underneath his words when Kaidan starts going off on him about being gone for 2 years and then being with Cerberus (anyone who says there's no difference in Shepard's attitude with either VS, just watch and compare the final scene where he says "Joker, bring in the shuttle... I've had enough of this colony").


No idea if Ashley's/Kaidan's reactions would be reversed if I was using a female Shepard instead of a male Shepard (my FemShep's still killing geth on Therum to rescue Liara in ME1 right now  ), but I still found the differences between the two VS and Shepard to be fairly interesting.

Modifié par AVPen, 14 août 2011 - 02:36 .

[Ryzaki]

rapscallioness wrote...

@iakus: your post reminded me of this bit I read on the Kaidan fan thread. Courtesy of Caseshep, it's a write up in the New Yorker w/ Jennifer Hale coming out 8/15/2011. It's has some small, but interesting foreshadowing:

"Toward the end of her day at the studio, Hale came to a scene with a character referred to as A/K. It was the most emotional scene of the day, and also one of the most technically tricky, because of the ways that players' choices in Mass Effect 1 and 2 carry over into the new sequel.

blah blah blah, story of Virmire...

...and, in Mass Effect 2, whichever of the two was saved reappears to remonstrate with him or her. The result of that conversation which can play out in various ways, determines how the character of A/K wll interact with Shepard in Mass Effect 3.The new scene involved a tense exchange between Shepard and A/K. The first line of the scene was simple enough. "Let her/him go." but Hale had to say it multiple times, with different emphases, in order to communicate every possible state of alarm with which Shepard would react to A/K.
...
Two were growly, hateful takes, and two were hard, urgent takes.
...
She was then told that her lines had to be recorded as though she were running. "I have a question," Hale said. "It's pretty emotional for Shepard here. How big do you want it?" Walters explained that he wanted Shepard to seem like more of a "real character" in this game, a character who showed "his frailty."
...
"I want Shepard's vulnerability to come out, even though not every player will choose to experience it."
...
Hale's next line was "No!" Livingstone turned to Walters and asked, "Is this a panicked 'No' or an angry 'No'?"
"It's a" -Walters hesitated- "futile 'No.'"
Hale nodded, "No!", she said, stirringly, a moment later.
"More compassion," Livingstone said. "Less heightened."
Hales tried again, and her "No!" seemed to emerge from some alarmed, half-strangled place in her throat."

Hm...as long as I can choose to be a uncaring douche instead of frail and panicked I'm okay. 

I do not want to have the urge to punch my Shepard in the throat for overacting. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 août 2011 - 02:08 .

[AVPen]

rapscallioness wrote...

@iakus: your post reminded me of this bit I read on the Kaidan fan thread. Courtesy of Caseshep, it's a write up in the New Yorker w/ Jennifer Hale coming out 8/15/2011. It's has some small, but interesting foreshadowing:

"Toward the end of her day at the studio, Hale came to a scene with a character referred to as A/K. It was the most emotional scene of the day, and also one of the most technically tricky, because of the ways that players' choices in Mass Effect 1 and 2 carry over into the new sequel.

blah blah blah, story of Virmire...

...and, in Mass Effect 2, whichever of the two was saved reappears to remonstrate with him or her. The result of that conversation which can play out in various ways, determines how the character of A/K wll interact with Shepard in Mass Effect 3.The new scene involved a tense exchange between Shepard and A/K. The first line of the scene was simple enough. "Let her/him go." but Hale had to say it multiple times, with different emphases, in order to communicate every possible state of alarm with which Shepard would react to A/K.
..."

Hmmm, very very curious... so apparently the dialogue choices you make on Horizon can also affect how the VS perceives and reacts to Shepard in ME3? Sounds good to me.

Modifié par AVPen, 14 août 2011 - 02:32 .

[rapscallioness]

@Ryzaki, yeah I had the urge to punch my FemShep in the throat on Horizon when she said "it'll be just like old times"....

@AVPen sounds good to me, too. Apparently, that lil piece of crap convo is more important than it seemed

[Iakus]

rapscallioness wrote...

@Ryzaki, yeah I had the urge to punch my FemShep in the throat on Horizon when she said "it'll be just like old times"....

@AVPen sounds good to me, too. Apparently, that lil piece of crap convo is more important than it seemed

I don't know whether to be happy or frightened...

Modifié par iakus, 14 août 2011 - 02:48 .

[Seboist]

I really hope that those minor dialogue options don't have that impact. If anything should have an impact it's the CB decision and perhaps the Rawlings data.

[Ryzaki]

rapscallioness wrote...

@Ryzaki, yeah I had the urge to punch my FemShep in the throat on Horizon when she said "it'll be just like old times"....

@AVPen sounds good to me, too. Apparently, that lil piece of crap convo is more important than it seemed

Yeah that was bad. Not as bad as the "hey Kaidan how you've been!" but...yeah pretty bad. 

[ubermensch007]

Made Nightwing wrote... DO YOU EVEN KNOW HOW COMA'S WORK??!!!!!!!

For someone to survive
in a coma they need, a) oxygen, nutrition, c) hydration. Without
these things, the human body dies. You honestly believe Shepard could
float around for TWO YEARS without any of these things?../../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png

Ryzaki wrote...

@Made Nightwing: I totally read that as comma's and spent a good five minutes laughing my ass off. XD

@Ryzaki, Your not the only one For a minute there I was like, "Huh?! When the heck did Made Nightwing become such a "Grammar" Naz! ?!" Totally through me off at first from whatever point he was trying to make...

@Made Nightwing and jreezy: I'll just say one more thing about the possibility of Shepard being in a coma-like state.His suit could have done this, as a way of increasing his chances of survival.For I think in a coma his breath would have been more shallow.So he wouldn't use up his oxygen reserves as quickly.(I could be wrong about that though.)

1136342t54 wrote...Shepard was never alive, near death nor encased some type of field.
Shepard was dead period. When the Shadow Broker had Shepard the
Commander was dead. When Cerberus had Shepard the Commander was dead.
The whole point of the Lazarus project was too bring Shep back to life.

Okay look... My whole "Hypothesis" was based on the Virmire Survivors belief that Commander Shepard never died when the Normandy SR-1 was destroyed in 2183.The Blue Suns, the Shadow Broker, Liara'T soni, Feron and Cerberus may know for certain that Shepard was dead.But the Alliance, Council and everyone else Shepard knew from 2183 did not know this for certain.

Dr.Chloe Michel, Emily Wong and etc...(Just read thier emails they sent to Shepard.) I still don't believe for a second that most people would suspect that Shepard faked his death to join Cerberus.Why Shepard was with the Alliance and Citadel Council, he attained a level of renown that could arguably get him DEIFIED in life; as some Roman Emperors like  Gaius Julius Caesar was in death...

What the hell could Cerberus offer him? What could Shepard possibly gain from joining that organization?! 

For example:

A couple of years ago, I failed to show up for work one day.Yet no one I worked with (well at least my managers did not) thought for a moment that I just uped and quit -- without notice.Because they knew that I was not the sort of person to do that.They even said as much to me the next day that I came in to work.They thought that there must have been some misunderstanding.And they were right.I wrote down the wrong day off on my work schedule.I wasn't fired.I wasn't even that firmly rebuked.

Now if I am essentially a "Nobody" of sorts.Yet I have such a good reputation; work ethic wise.How much more so is this or would this be true of a "SOMEBODY" like Commander John Shepard!?!

I believe given what people know of Shepard.It is far more likely that they would believe that he was "Behind Enemy Lines" for the past two years.Akin to Owen Wilson's character from that movie.(Check it out.It's awesome.)

Oh wait... But Cerberus actually does offer Shepard something.A ship.A crew.And a way out of the Terminus Systems.Which is far more than can be said for the Alliance and Council.Who didn't even send a rescue or retrival party after Commander Shepard.They just left him with his ass floating in space.To fend for himself and that's exactly what Shepard does while "BEHIND ENEMY LINES" (In Mass Effect 2) might I add.But Sianonsea II and redbaron76 and whoever else; still have the gall to state that "Shepard working with Cerberus makes him a traitor to the Alliance and Council."

Man -- What!?! If Shepard has a theme song or anthem in 2185 to play for such sort of knucleheads as the VS and anyone who thinks that ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL that Shepard did two years ago doesn't amount to a hill of beans today.It would have to be:

Dr.Dre's - Forgot About Dre ft.Eminem

Eminem:

Nowadays everybody wanna talk like they got something to say

But nothin comes out when they move their lips

Just a buncha gibberish

And muthaf*ckas act like they forgot about Shep

Dre Dre:

Ya'll know me still the same ol' G :innocent:

But I been low key

Hated on by most these *#%$!*

With no cheese, no deals and no G's, no wheels and no keys

No boats, no snowmobiles and no ski's

Mad at me cause(I didn't contact you Ash)

If it was up to me

You muthaf!ck*s would stop comin up to me

With your hands out lookin up to me

Like you want somethin free

You better bow down on both knees

Who you think taught you to smoke trees (Kick Geth ass)

Who you think brought you the o' G's

Eazy-E's Ice Cube's and D.O.C's and Snoop D O double G's

And a group that said muthaf*ck the police (The Council and Alliance can kiss my ass "Mutiny")

Gave you a tape full of dope beats (A resume that got you promoted to Operations Chief)

To bump when stroll through in your hood

So f*ck ya'll all of ya'll

If ya'll don't like me bl*w me

Ya'll are gonna keep f*ckin around with me

And turn me back to the old me

Modifié par ubermensch007, 17 août 2011 - 04:56 .

[ubermensch007]

jreezy wrote...Did you really just write that? Awesome. One my favorite songs. You're OK in my book.

Damn right... Look if the Virmire Survivor starts talking smack to Shepard like what knightnblu wrote here in  Is Ashley Still your girl? Concerning Commander Shepard's Trial:

Frankly, Williams has broken faith with me and I no longer trust her. Therefore, her actions and motivations are now subject to suspicion. If she got her panties all knotted up over my working with Cerberus on
Horizon, I know that she is going to go nuclear over my killing 300K+ Batarian civilians including women and children in the Viper system. If she thought I was misguided then, she is bound to see me as the Prince
of Evil now and there really isn't any point in trying to explain it to her because she has proven that she won't listen. She'll just believe that I am Cerberus through and through with a touch of Attila the Hun and Hitler thrown in for good measure.
 
So why bother? That's why I don't want her on my ship, if in fact it still is my ship, and why I really don't want anything more to do with her. It isn't that I don't like her, it's that I don't want to waste my breath trying to explain my
actions to a brick wall. Other people may find that entertaining, but I don't.
 
If Williams no longer trusts Shepard on Horizon, can you imagine what
she is going to do when she finds out the results of Arrival?

Now we have the situation with Arrival and if Ashley thought Shepard had gone dark side for working with Cerberus, she is going to freak when she finds out about the body count of the victims of that episode in
ME3. Can't imagine how the writers are going to handle that one, but they painted themselves into a corner as I see it.

If the VS had that much trouble believing Shepard about his reasons for working with Cerberus on Horizon, I seriously doubt they are going to buy his reasoning about the Reapers being the reason to destroy the system. That's why if they are around during the trial, I expect that they will have me under guard. In fact, I can hear Ashley
now,

"What the hell were you thinking Shepard?! I knew that you were out of your mind when I saw you on Horizon, but I never thought that you would slaughter innocent women and children as part of your descent into
madness!"

Trying to reason with her about that would be akin to reasoning with a brick wall. She didn't listen to you on Horizon, so why should she give you an ear about that?

If Ashley says some sh!t like that to MY Shepard.He is going to respond to her something like this,"Alright -- Look...(Shepard facepalms and then says)  You know what Ashley!? KISS -- MY -- BLACK ASS! <_< You feel me!?! "

Thanks for the compliment jreezy...

Modifié par ubermensch007, 14 août 2011 - 10:34 .

[ChaplainTappman]

Here's an analogy. You're a cop. You work Vice or SWAT, or some similar high-risk job that requires a huge degree of loyalty and dedication. You work with another officer, a career cop like you. He's worked special tasks jobs like yours for a decade. You get to know him. Trust him. Think of him not only as a trustworthy and respectable comrade, but a close personal friend. Then he disappears; maybe there's an explanation, maybe not. But he's gone.

Time passes. One night you raid a meth lab. Afterwards, as you're going through processing the suspects you've arrested, you find your buddy. He's sitting there, plain as day, handcuffed with everyone else who got arrested. What's your first thought? Is it "holy **** my friend's a meth dealer?" or is it "holy **** my friend's undercover with these meth dealers?"

[Siansonea]

ChaplainTappman wrote...

Here's an analogy. You're a cop. You work Vice or SWAT, or some similar high-risk job that requires a huge degree of loyalty and dedication. You work with another officer, a career cop like you. He's worked special tasks jobs like yours for a decade. You get to know him. Trust him. Think of him not only as a trustworthy and respectable comrade, but a close personal friend. Then he disappears; maybe there's an explanation, maybe not. But he's gone.

Time passes. One night you raid a meth lab. Afterwards, as you're going through processing the suspects you've arrested, you find your buddy. He's sitting there, plain as day, handcuffed with everyone else who got arrested. What's your first thought? Is it "holy **** my friend's a meth dealer?" or is it "holy **** my friend's undercover with these meth dealers?"

Meth dealer. Crooked cops abound.

[ChaplainTappman]

Siansonea II wrote...
Meth dealer. Crooked cops abound.

I pity you, then. It must be a sad existence, having so little faith in even those you call friends.

[Siansonea]

ChaplainTappman wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
Meth dealer. Crooked cops abound.

I pity you, then. It must be a sad existence, having so little faith in even those you call friends.

Ah, the "I pity you" game. Okay, I'll play. I pity YOU for being so credulous. Who says Shepard was ever a friend? Shepard can be kind of a soulless b¡tch when she wants to be. I wouldn't put anything past her.

[paul165]

Gonna need to a boat to get to Palaven?

[redbaron76]

There people go specukating that Ashley does not trust shepard. Give us a logical proof that she does not trust shepard. Calling him traitor and telling him that she knows where her loyalty lays are words, not proof.

[1136342t54_]

Meh Ashley likely trusts Shepard enough to believe that he or she would do anything even (commit treason) to do what he or she think is the best way to fight the Reapers.

[Made Nightwing]

To whoever seemed to think that Ash has broken faith with Shepard:

From Ashley's perspective, Shepard is the one who has broken faith. From her perspective, he somehow managed to survive the crash, and then joined Cerberus.

To those who think Ash should have believed Shepard was undercover:

Ash has been serving as a top level operative for Councilor/Admiral Anderson, and the rest of the Alliance brass. If an agent as important and as vital as Shepard had been sent undercover, she would have been told about it. Her prior connection to him makes her a logical choice for working in tandem operation to take down Cerberus bases, plus a Shepard who is in love with Ash is less likely to go completely rogue once he is undercover.

[1136342t54_]

[quote]ubermensch007 wrote...


Okay look... My whole "Hypothesis" was based on the Virmire Survivors belief that Commander Shepard never died when the Normandy SR-1 was destroyed in 2183.The Blue Suns, the Shadow Broker, Liara'T soni, Feron and Cerberus may know for certain that Shepard was dead.But the Alliance, Council and everyone else Shepard knew from 2183 did not know this for certain.
[/quote]
Understandable this was a theory of mine that the VS would think that Shepard may not have been truly dead.

[quote]
Dr.Chloe Michel, Emily Wong and etc...(Just read thier emails they sent to Shepard.) I still don't believe for a second that most people would suspect that Shepard faked his death to join Cerberus.Why Shepard was with the Alliance and Citadel Council, he attained a level of renown that could arguably get him DEIFIED in life; as some Roman Emperors like  Gaius Julius Caesar was in death...

What the hell could Cerberus offer him? What could Shepard possibly gain from joining that organization?! 
[/quote]
Its not that hard to believe. Remember the Council was sending Shepard to hunt down Geth on goose chase missions in the Terminus to ignore the true threat. The only group with the resources to help Shepard with the Reapers would be Cerberus. Hell they even have the resources to remake the Normandy to become better than ever. It could be pretty tempting.

Cerberus can offer shepard a superior Normandy ship, Cybernetic enhancements better than what most people have, a strong AI and the willingness to fight the Reapers. Its not too unlikely for shepard to help them. Shepard could have done worse things than joining Cerberus since his time as a Spectre.

For example:

A couple of years ago, I failed to show up for work one day.Yet no one I worked with (well at least my managers did not) thought for a moment that I just uped and quit -- without notice.Because they knew that I was not the sort of person to do that.They even said as much to me the next day that I came in to work.They thought that there must have been some misunderstanding.And they were right.I wrote down the wrong day off on my work schedule.I wasn't fired.I wasn't even that firmly rebuked.

Now if I am essentially a "Nobody" of sorts.Yet I have such a good reputation; work ethic wise.How much more so is this or would this be true of a "SOMEBODY" like Commander John Shepard!?!

I believe given what people know of Shepard.It is far more likely that they would believe that he was "Behind Enemy Lines" for the past two years.Akin to Owen Wilson's character from that movie.(Check it out.It's awesome.)

Oh wait... But Cerberus actually does offer Shepard something.A ship.A crew.And a way out of the Terminus Systems.Which is far more than can be said for the Alliance and Council.Who didn't even send a rescue or retrival party after Commander Shepard.They just left him with his ass floating in space.To fend for himself and that's exactly what Shepard does while "BEHIND ENEMY LINES" (In Mass Effect 2) might I add.But Sianonsea II and redbaron76 and whoever else; still have the gall to state that "Shepard working with Cerberus makes him a traitor to the Alliance and Council."
[/quote]
Well technically it does. He is working for a terrorist group, using a ship illegally made with Alliance tech and schematics, using illegal AI and can willingly quit the Spectres. What Shepard did was treason no matter the intentions. Just because shep did it for good reasons doesn't mean anyone else will see it a different way. 

"The road to he;l is paved with good intentions."

[quote]
Man -- What!?! If Shepard has a theme song or anthem in 2185 to play for such sort of knucleheads as the VS and anyone who thinks that ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL that Shepard did two years ago doesn't amount to a hill of beans today.It would have to be:

Dr.Dre's - Forgot About Dre ft.Eminem

Eminem:

Nowadays everybody wanna talk like they got something to say

But nothin comes out when they move their lips

Just a buncha gibberish

And muthaf*ckas act like they forgot about Shep

Dre Dre:

Ya'll know me still the same ol' G :innocent:

But I been low key

Hated on by most these *#%$!*

With no cheese, no deals and no G's, no wheels and no keys

No boats, no snowmobiles and no ski's

Mad at me cause(I didn't contact you Ash)

If it was up to me

You muthaf!ck*s would stop comin up to me

With your hands out lookin up to me

Like you want somethin free

You better bow down on both knees

Who you think taught you to smoke trees (Kick Geth ass)

Who you think brought you the o' G's

Eazy-E's Ice Cube's and D.O.C's and Snoop D O double G's

And a group that said muthaf*ck the police (The Council and Alliance can kiss my ass "Mutiny")

Gave you a tape full of dope beats (A resume that got you promoted to Operations Chief)

To bump when stroll through in your hood

So f*ck ya'll all of ya'll

If ya'll don't like me bl*w me

Ya'll are gonna keep f*ckin around with me

And turn me back to the old me

[/quote]

Meh my quote pretty much says it all. Look at what Saren did. While he was more flawed in his ideas his goal was to save the galaxy (and put turians on top lol). Shepard's goal is to save the galaxy but he is working with some seriously evil bastards. It would be kind of difficult to not see a small amount of another Saren in Shepard. The VS may trust Shepard but cannot betray the Alliance by working with cerberus or Shepard.

[Iakus]

redbaron76 wrote...

There people go specukating that Ashley does not trust shepard. Give us a logical proof that she does not trust shepard. Calling him traitor and telling him that she knows where her loyalty lays are words, not proof.

Words mean things.

[1136342t54_]

Eh I still didn't here the VS cry out "I don't trust you!"

[redbaron76]

But they still are just words. And by working for cerberus is treason. Unless you guys can provide proof of orders for shepard to go undercover it is legaly defined as treason. And we all know that shepard is not working undercover , he actually got killed in line of duty. He was rebuilt still is alliance soldier and is not a clone. Cerberus are traitors and work for the reapers and last time i checked reapers are still the enemy. And if working for the allies of enemy is not treason please tell me what is.

[redbaron76]

But to get back on topic. The trial in ME 3 will be only about event that happened in DLC Arrival, not cereberus activities. Apparently Shepard activities with cerberus are still classified up to wazoo. SO it will not enter trial at all.