1476 réponses à ce sujet

[Siansonea]

paul165 wrote...

Very quickly (not that I expect it to make any difference to the conversation)
>>Boo-hoo, Shepard. You want to explain yourself? Go ahead. Don't wait to be asked.<<
Shepard tried (OK poorly but Shepard tried it was incredibly obvious that the VS wasn't listening to anything other than Cerberus). No point in explaining things to people who won't listen

>>Shepard is mysteriously on Horizon after an attack by unknown aliens<<
From which Shepard has just saved you at significant personal risk....

Shepard saved the VS, not "me". And it's still suspicious that Shepard managed to show up right as the aliens were attacking. How did Shepard know to be there? (Of course, it is later learned that the Collectors hit Horizon because the Illusive Man leaked the info that the VS was on Horizon, so hmmmmm, suspicions confirmed...)

>>Shepard arrives after an unexplained two-year absence in which she was declared dead by the Alliance.<<
Because as Shepard states they were 'in a coma' - tends to prevent people from reporting in and even the VS should be able to work that out!

"I was in a coma for two years" sounds like a bad soap opera storyline. No sane person is going to take that claim seriously. If you don't want to say where you've been for two years, fine, but don't make up some ridiculous story. 

>>The VS, on the other hand, is acting on Alliance intel and Alliance authority. <<

What authority? The Alliance has no more authority in the Terminus than Cerberus does. Not to mention the 'Alliance intel' was provided by TIM.

Well, that's some pretzel logic right there. Yes, TIM leaked info to the Alliance. TIM leaked info to the Collectors. TIM set up the whole scenario on Horizon. So yeah, when Lilith and the others get pureed by the Collectors and fed to the Baby Reaper, you can thank TIM. But of course, the VS and Shepard know NONE of this when they meet on Horizon. So, what's your point?

And yeah, neither Shepard nor the VS has any "jurisdiction" on Horizon. Which is why they part ways amicably, even though it's a meeting of two enemy factions (the Alliance and Cerberus). Only because Shepard runs into an Alliance operative that she knows personally, and that she knows well, is she able to walk away without a fight. Some random Alliance soldier is not going to be nearly as accommodating to Cerberus Lackey Shepard as the VS was.

>>VS assumes that Shepard was manipulated<<

How generous of them! They assumed that Shepard was an idiot or under duress and rather than make any attempt to help the poor sod they prefer to wave their alleged moral superiority as a flag.

The moral high ground is pretty clear. You types that embrace the Renegade path as Plan A (how many people can I kill today!) want to rake the VS over the coals for seeing Shepard's working with Cerberus as some kind of minor breach of protocol, a misdemeanor. It's NOT. It's a capital crime. A MAJOR felony. TREASON. Cerberus KILLED an Alliance Admiral and scores of Alliance Marines. That's NOT OKAY for someone who is in the Alliance. So yeah, that "benefit of the doubt" you all beat up the VS for not having? That only works if there is a doubt to begin with. But showing up flying the Cerberus flag is pretty unambiguous. And it's still a worse crime than not automatically believing the best of Shepard, which is really the only "crime" that the VS can be accused of. Not everyone is going to automatically trust and follow you Shepard. You don't have "Player Character" tattooed on your forehead.

>>Yeah, I'm not going to have too much sympathy for the traitor in this scenario. <<
Shepard has saved the VS at least twice by this point (Eden Prime and Horizon) not to mention the VS is not required to have sympathy or trust or whatever version of this statement you prefer.

The VS is required to investigate

Their entire job on Horizon was to investigate Cerberus - they failed utterly despite being given a co-operative source with access to information about the organisation that the Alliance would kill for. The VS has literally within arms reach a Cerberus cell leader, a major warship and an AI with Cerberus databases. On top of that intelligence goldmine Shepard knows the location of several Cerberus cells and at least one major objective.

What use does the VS make of this intelligence windfall - none what so ever!

You keep hammering this point like it's the coup de grâce. Puh-leeze. It seems like the VS's main mission is to help the Horizon colony, and Cerberus intel is a secondary goal. Well, the VS tried to protect the Horizon colony. It sure would have been helpful if Cerberus had warned the Alliance about the seeker swarms, and given them the Freedom's Progress data. Oh yeah, Cerberus is a terrorist organization bent on furthering it's own goals, not the welfare of humanity as a whole, that's right.

And it would sure go a long way toward building trust if Shepard were to give the VS the countermeasure against the seeker swarms. Too bad Shepard didn't think of that. 

If they get interrogated by anyone other than Anderson about the Horizon mission they would have an awful lot of explaining to do for their inexplicable failure to complete their mission despite being given such a gift.

I think to keep this relevant to the original topic this bears repeating:

Do you (or your Shepard) really want someone with a record like that guarding your back or even worse giving orders in your absence?

Do I want somebody guarding my back who will just look the other way if I join a terrorist organization? No.

Do I want somebody guarding my back who will question me if I engage in unethical activities? YES.

I don't value sycophants. The VS has a mind of his/her own, and isn't afraid to tell Shepard that she's crossed a line. And she HAS. A really really BIG one. So yeah, I'll take that VS over the one who shrugs noncommittally and asks for a Cerberus application any day of the week. 

Modifié par Siansonea II, 15 août 2011 - 10:37 .

[Seboist]

It's a good thing Shepard never joined a "terrorist organization" isn't it?

[Siansonea]

Seboist wrote...

It's a good thing Shepard never joined a "terrorist organization" isn't it?

Sure she did. She's on their ship, flanked by their people. How is that not joining?

You're not going to sidestep Shepard's association with Cerberus by claiming she is working "with" them and not "for" them. Don't try that BS in a trial, BTW, because you will LOSE.

[Seboist]

Siansonea II wrote...

Seboist wrote...

It's a good thing Shepard never joined a "terrorist organization" isn't it?

Sure she did. She's on their ship, flanked by their people. How is that not joining?

You're not going to sidestep Shepard's association with Cerberus by claiming she is working "with" them and not "for" them. Don't try that BS in a trial, BTW, because you will LOSE.

The "terrorist" label is bull**** slander and that it's from an alien racial caste good ol' boys club like the council who uses a brutal secret force that can get away with bombing a refinery to kill hundreds makes it all the more LOL worthy

VS needs to apologize for being out of line.

[Barquiel]

Seboist wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Seboist wrote...

It's a good thing Shepard never joined a "terrorist organization" isn't it?

Sure she did. She's on their ship, flanked by their people. How is that not joining?

You're not going to sidestep Shepard's association with Cerberus by claiming she is working "with" them and not "for" them. Don't try that BS in a trial, BTW, because you will LOSE.

The "terrorist" label is bull**** slander and that it's from an alien racial caste good ol' boys club like the council who uses a brutal secret force that can get away with bombing a refinery to kill hundreds makes it all the more LOL worthy

VS needs to apologize for being out of line.

Both the Systems Alliance and the Citadel Council have declared Cerberus to be a terrorist organization.

VS = alliance -> you joined a terrorist organization in their eyes.

Btw, you can't get away with bombing a refinery. The council didn't make Anderson a spectre.

Modifié par Barquiel, 15 août 2011 - 10:53 .

[Seboist]

Barquiel wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Seboist wrote...

It's a good thing Shepard never joined a "terrorist organization" isn't it?

Sure she did. She's on their ship, flanked by their people. How is that not joining?

You're not going to sidestep Shepard's association with Cerberus by claiming she is working "with" them and not "for" them. Don't try that BS in a trial, BTW, because you will LOSE.

The "terrorist" label is bull**** slander and that it's from an alien racial caste good ol' boys club like the council who uses a brutal secret force that can get away with bombing a refinery to kill hundreds makes it all the more LOL worthy

VS needs to apologize for being out of line.

Both the Systems Alliance and the Citadel Council have declared Cerberus to be a terrorist organization.

VS = alliance -> you joined a terrorist organization in their eyes.

Btw, you can't get away with bombing a refinery. The council didn't make Anderson a spectre.

The Alliance is just playing politics to make nice with the Council.

Anderscum wasn't made a Spectre due to Saren blaming him for blowing his cover.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Shepard is still a Council SPECTRE. Then the Alliance uses a Cerberus vessel to go into a Batarian system as part of a Black Ops mission to blow the relay? Then betrays their operative by putting on a sham of a military trial? Shepard could simply blame Kinson for the asteroid hitting the relay just like Saren blamed Anderson. Shepard was "trying to stop a rogue operation." All the evidence was destroyed. No witnesses. The Alliance has no case against Shepard. And SPECTREs can do what is necessary to get the job done, and they do apparently freelance without any issue. The VS testimony is heresay.

The trial is a show by politicians for the Batarians. Shepard never joined Cerberus, stole their ship, and one of the top Cerberus operatives resigned on the SM. Can Shepard hide behind the Council?

This is going to be some tricky writing, and I just hope they write up Shepard's attorneys very well. After all Shepard does have the money to hire a team of the best judge advocates and doesn't just get assigned one, unless this is purposely a railroad job. Nor will Shepard be stupid enough to self-represent, or take the stand. Still there is no concrete evidence of anything.

[Siansonea]

Seboist wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Seboist wrote...

It's a good thing Shepard never joined a "terrorist organization" isn't it?

Sure she did. She's on their ship, flanked by their people. How is that not joining?

You're not going to sidestep Shepard's association with Cerberus by claiming she is working "with" them and not "for" them. Don't try that BS in a trial, BTW, because you will LOSE.

The "terrorist" label is bull**** slander and that it's from an alien racial caste good ol' boys club like the council who uses a brutal secret force that can get away with bombing a refinery to kill hundreds makes it all the more LOL worthy

VS needs to apologize for being out of line.

Whatever. I'm sure that made sense in your head, with all those emotions percolating around. But in the cold light of logic, it's a pretty clear cut case. The Alliance has declared Cerberus to be a terrorist organization. Therefore, from a legal standpoint, when dealing with the Alliance, Cerberus IS a terrorist organization. Really, how much simpler can it be?

In the grand scheme of things, Cerberus is right up there with the worst criminal organizations in human history, so any argument that tries to defend Cerberus' reputation as a means of excusing Shepard from joining Cerberus is really just stupid rationalization. You Cerberus sympathizers can bathe in the blood of Alliance soldiers all you want, but it's not going to rewrite history. No amount of PR bullsh¡t is going to save Cerberus' reputation at this point. 

[1136342t54_]

paul165 wrote...

>>All unknown to the VS. The VS was suppose to figure out if Cereberus was involved and they now know that since Shep is there. Even if Shepard wanted to tell the VS all about the Cerberus vessel and equipment its highly likely that Miranda would have a fit EDI would be listening in on the info and inform the Illusive Man.<<

They were supposed to investigate Cerberus and all they got was a Cerberus flagged vessel showing up with Shepard on board. Wonderful investigative work on their part wouldn't you agree?

Did you not see part of my post? They were there to see if Cerberus was involved in the next Colony attack solely because TIM  sent out reports saying that Cerberus was involved.

If being a Spectre was about surviving fights Jack would be a Spectre. If somone is to be an XO/Spectre they should have to demonstrate good judgement. The VS doesn't.

How did you even get that from what I said? They didn't jus survive but was successful. Obviously if they were promoted and sent on secret missions that was likely part of the reason why the VS was asked to be in the Spectres.  The VS especially seemed to have almost a perfect record even before joining Shepard especially Kaidan.

The best conclusion to really get out of this is that they both weren't acting themselves obviuosly. It would be foolish to discount everything you know about the character that's rational for one situation that didn't go your way. Of course the VS kind of did the same thing but obviously both sides feel betrayed and sometimes correct judgement doesn't happen. 

I do concede that M!Shep didn't rescue Kaidan on Eden Prime sorry - only combination where rescuing the VS on Eden Prime does not occur though. Regardless that conversation occurs shortly after Shepard has just saved their life again; most people would be at least somewhat grateful but apparently the VS doesn't subscibe to that line of thought.

I don't doubt they were but being grateful doesn't mean you forget that your mission was to confirm Cerberus involvement. Shepard coming in as many are saying the former Spectre has been working with Cerberus will kind of confirm some things.

What is it that you wanted the VS to say to make the situation better? "Thank you?"

[1136342t54_]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Shepard is still a Council SPECTRE. Then the Alliance uses a Cerberus vessel to go into a Batarian system as part of a Black Ops mission to blow the relay? Then betrays their operative by putting on a sham of a military trial? Shepard could simply blame Kinson for the asteroid hitting the relay just like Saren blamed Anderson. Shepard was "trying to stop a rogue operation." All the evidence was destroyed. No witnesses. The Alliance has no case against Shepard. And SPECTREs can do what is necessary to get the job done, and they do apparently freelance without any issue. The VS testimony is heresay.

The trial is a show by politicians for the Batarians. Shepard never joined Cerberus, stole their ship, and one of the top Cerberus operatives resigned on the SM. Can Shepard hide behind the Council?

This is going to be some tricky writing, and I just hope they write up Shepard's attorneys very well. After all Shepard does have the money to hire a team of the best judge advocates and doesn't just get assigned one, unless this is purposely a railroad job. Nor will Shepard be stupid enough to self-represent, or take the stand. Still there is no concrete evidence of anything.

Not so simple. The Batarians want retribution and the only two people who are responsible for the Asteroid collision is Kinson and Shepard. Kinson for building the engines to move the Asteroid and Shepard for actually using it. Kinson is dead and Shepard is the only one the Alliance can use to put on trial and prevent a war that the Galaxy doesn't needs.

[1136342t54_]

elektrego wrote...

Re. The VS' mission on Horizon.

I am going back to something that I pointed out very early in this thread:

Shepard to Anderson AFTER Horizon. It is basically the same for both Ashley and Kaidan, except for the names:

Ashley Williams was on Horizon. She said, she was looking into Cerberus.

Anderson: I know, I approved the mission. We had to find out, if they were behind the missing colonists. I couldn't tell anyone without compromising the investigation. I am sorry.

Shepard: I thought we were friends! Never expected you to go behind my back!

Anderson: We didn't know about you at the time and I wouldn't have told you, if I did!
What if The Illusive Man was manipulating you, lying to you. The Report actually confirmed your story. I still don't trust Cerberus, but they were right about the Collectors abducting the colonists. Unfortunately, Williams didn't find anything to convince the Council the Reapers were behind this or even that they exist.

Again, this is AFTER Horizon. So the report the VS writes about Horizon actually clears Shepard's name in the eyes of the Alliance and the reason Anderson and Hackett treat you like they do after Horizon is that report. Well, how about that. The Vs is responsible for the Alliance finally seeing that Shepard has good reasons to work with Cerberus, though they still don't like it. (But I bet this point is just being ignored again or simply rejected.)

So in short: The mission of the VS was to investigate the connection between the missing colonists and Cerberus. And despite their emotional outbourst in the face of the person they thought dead for two years, they act professionally and write a report (as they were the only Alliance representative on Horizon I feell save to assume it was the VS, who has written it) that says that Shepard is actually not a traitor and has good reasons to work with Cerberus.

Yes, they reacted emotional (I don't have the superhuman expectation, that they should have remained calm and matter-of-fact in a situation like that), but in the end, they got over it and eventually acted professional, an action that seems impossible for many here and  I have a hard time to take anybody serious, who can't do the same.
But I trust the VS, because they show that level of professionalism. despite their personal feelings about Cerberus.
I, as Shepard and their former CO and friend, lover in some cases, don't hold a grudge against them because, they didn't choose to  join me, I had a good team and accomplsihed my mission. I don't need a friend to agree with me about everything and be with me every step of the way.
I am grateful they stayed true to themselves and were honest about how they felt about my dealings with Cerberus.
It's been fracking two years, a period longer than we knew each other, why should I expect them to just continue, where we left off, when I died ( yes, others did, but it isn't something I expect and I don't measure people based on the actions of others.)
And I am not willing to condemn anybody based on an emotionally charged five-minute-conversation. Granted, we don't get much more in the game, but I am not too blind to see the fact that it was their report, that made the Alliance understand my actions.

Personally I am not interested in this "stupid" Alliance vs "evil" Cerberus BS, that has taken over this thread.
To me it comes down to how I am willing to treat a person, that has been at my side for a few very important weeks in my life, despite them acting irrational, because I have done the same in my real life and I am grateful for the people, who haven't held it against me and have shown themselves to be real friends an not someone, who looked at me just for the affirmation of their actions.

To add a little specualtion an wishful thinking: I am pretty sure, they acted that cr*appy on Horizon, because they knew, if they listened, they would be tempted to go with me and betray their own oath to the Alliance. I am grateful they reported back and helped to fully restore the Alliance's trust in me.

And now I am going back to not writing as Shepard in the first person and  not treating this serious and simply being amused.

You know what I think this post should really just be the end of this debate honestly. I don't doubt the VS is wrong but they are not as horrible as some make them out to be. If they stook by me through the entirety of that whole ordeal in Mass Effect 1 I could excuse what they did on Horizon.

[Iakus]

I could let it slide if the questioned Shepard's judgement, or if they suspected Shep was being manipulated or controlled (as Anderson indicated) but they accused Shep of disloyalty and betrayal. Strong accusations that can potentially fly in the face of Shepard's past behavior.

I don't think the VS is "ruined forever" nor is Shepard entirely blameless for the situation on Horizon, but such accusations go too far.

[1136342t54_]

iakus wrote...

I could let it slide if the questioned Shepard's judgement, or if they suspected Shep was being manipulated or controlled (as Anderson indicated) but they accused Shep of disloyalty and betrayal. Strong accusations that can potentially fly in the face of Shepard's past behavior.

I don't think the VS is "ruined forever" nor is Shepard entirely blameless for the situation on Horizon, but such accusations go too far.

 I would say its a bit implied that they accused shepard of disloyalty. I'm not going to necessarily fault them (much) with the betrayal bit since that's what Shepard technically did but they did imply a bit that they were more loyal. Also elektrego raised a good point. The VS report supported Shepard's argument and it seemed that they ultimately believed Shepard was doing this for the right reasons.

[ChaplainTappman]

elektrego wrote...

Again, this is AFTER Horizon. So the report the VS writes about Horizon actually clears Shepard's name in the eyes of the Alliance and the reason Anderson and Hackett treat you like they do after Horizon is that report. Well, how about that. The Vs is responsible for the Alliance finally seeing that Shepard has good reasons to work with Cerberus, though they still don't like it. (But I bet this point is just being ignored again or simply rejected.)

I have to say, this is a GREAT point. That's something I hadn't considered, in part because I'm fairly certain I've only ever heard that particular line of Anderson's once. And it definitely changes my opinion on the VS. As I've said ad nauseum, I don't begrudge the VS being upset at Horizon. My issue has always been that their first assumption was that Shepard betrayed the Alliance and/or the Council. I'm still not happy about it. But you're right, that was obviously just a knee jerk irrational reaction, and that they actually actively demonstrated their trust in Shepard.

I still think there will be some sort of conversation in ME3 to the effect of "these issues need airing out." But, for me, it'll be much less confrontational than I expected. Again, great point, and I thank you for bringing it up.

[Seboist]

Siansonea II wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Seboist wrote...

It's a good thing Shepard never joined a "terrorist organization" isn't it?

Sure she did. She's on their ship, flanked by their people. How is that not joining?

You're not going to sidestep Shepard's association with Cerberus by claiming she is working "with" them and not "for" them. Don't try that BS in a trial, BTW, because you will LOSE.

The "terrorist" label is bull**** slander and that it's from an alien racial caste good ol' boys club like the council who uses a brutal secret force that can get away with bombing a refinery to kill hundreds makes it all the more LOL worthy

VS needs to apologize for being out of line.

Whatever. I'm sure that made sense in your head, with all those emotions percolating around. But in the cold light of logic, it's a pretty clear cut case. The Alliance has declared Cerberus to be a terrorist organization. Therefore, from a legal standpoint, when dealing with the Alliance, Cerberus IS a terrorist organization. Really, how much simpler can it be?

In the grand scheme of things, Cerberus is right up there with the worst criminal organizations in human history, so any argument that tries to defend Cerberus' reputation as a means of excusing Shepard from joining Cerberus is really just stupid rationalization. You Cerberus sympathizers can bathe in the blood of Alliance soldiers all you want, but it's not going to rewrite history. No amount of PR bullsh¡t is going to save Cerberus' reputation at this point. 

LOL, Cerberus are choir boys compared to real life Mexican drug cartels.

You hypocrite paragons really have no grasp of what the Spectres even are. They can kill,torture,bomb and do just about anything and the Council will look the other way. Real life Gestapo and Stasi agents couldn't have gotten away with half the things they do. Even a Pure Paragon is a grey character due to this.

Just admit it, the whole Horizon encounter was atrocious writing. There's no reason why a timid passive guy like Kaidan should be getting so bent out of shape for my Shepard collaborating with an organization that was an irrelevant non-entity in the first game while she was a Spectre who could have done things like exterminate the Rachni, wipe out Feros colony or do mafia hits for criminals like Helena Blake.

Oh and Cerberus enabled Shepard to save humanity from the collectors, so my and my Shepard's concscious are clean.

[Seboist]

iakus wrote...

I could let it slide if the questioned Shepard's judgement, or if they suspected Shep was being manipulated or controlled (as Anderson indicated) but they accused Shep of disloyalty and betrayal. Strong accusations that can potentially fly in the face of Shepard's past behavior.

I don't think the VS is "ruined forever" nor is Shepard entirely blameless for the situation on Horizon, but such accusations go too far.

They had some legit things to say like saying that Shepard might owe Cerberus for bringing her back the the dead or that TIM is manipulating her with the Reaper threat but the whole thing became a theater of the absurd. Seeing the VS acting so over the top and anti-Cerberus that they make Tali look like a moderate on them was hard to believe. Kaidan and Ash were arguably the most loyal squad members in ME1 and to see them spew such garbage like Shepard being a traitor was laughable.

[1136342t54_]

Seboist wrote...

LOL, Cerberus are choir boys compared to real life Mexican drug cartels.

Your right those are some hardcore dudes /Sarcasm

So Mexican drug cartels have death camps for children, turn people into zombies for weapons, experiment on sentient creatures for shock troopers, Assassinate Military Admirals, Killed the pope (Cerberus has done this), Tortured and implanted people with cybernetics on the off chance of creating a ultimate soldier (Retribution Novel) and a variety of other things that the Mexican drug cartels doesn't have neither the will or capability to do all in the name of drugs.

You hypocrite paragons really have no grasp of what the Spectres even are. They can kill,torture,bomb and do just about anything and the Council will look the other way. Real life Gestapo and Stasi agents couldn't have gotten away with half the things they do. Even a Pure Paragon is a grey character due to this.

Kill yes, torture yes, bomb yes all for the greater good. When Spectres actually do those things they save more lives than they take and they do it for the good of the galaxy. Cerberus has done many many many despicable acts for humanity as a whole and not all of their ends justified the means.

Just admit it, the whole Horizon encounter was atrocious writing. There's no reason why a timid passive guy like Kaidan should be getting so bent out of shape for my Shepard collaborating with an organization that was an irrelevant non-entity in the first game while she was a Spectre who could have done things like exterminate the Rachni, wipe out Feros colony or do mafia hits for criminals like Helena Blake.

That irrelevant non entity was partly a former Alliance Black ops organization, killed a Admiral, pope, assasinated politicians, created biotic death camps and many other things. That organization has power and resources beyond a normal terrorist group. Is it so hard to believe that the VS was just pissed off at the moment? Kaidan being like that isn't so impossible since we know what happened the last time Kaidan got super pissed.

Oh and Cerberus enabled Shepard to save humanity from the collectors, so my and my Shepard's concscious are clean.

Good for your Shep.

[1136342t54_]

jreezy wrote...

So who exactly needs to be doing the restoring of trust here?

Not sure exactly. The VS seems to trust shepard but not Cerberus. Many believe that the VS needs to prove to Shepard that they can be trusted although I think their report to Anderson kind of shows where their trust lies.

[enayasoul]

elektrego wrote...

Re. The VS' mission on Horizon.

I am going back to something that I pointed out very early in this thread:

Shepard to Anderson AFTER Horizon. It is basically the same for both Ashley and Kaidan, except for the names:

Ashley Williams was on Horizon. She said, she was looking into Cerberus.

Anderson: I know, I approved the mission. We had to find out, if they were behind the missing colonists. I couldn't tell anyone without compromising the investigation. I am sorry.

Shepard: I thought we were friends! Never expected you to go behind my back!

Anderson: We didn't know about you at the time and I wouldn't have told you, if I did!
What if The Illusive Man was manipulating you, lying to you. The Report actually confirmed your story. I still don't trust Cerberus, but they were right about the Collectors abducting the colonists. Unfortunately, Williams didn't find anything to convince the Council the Reapers were behind this or even that they exist.

Again, this is AFTER Horizon. So the report the VS writes about Horizon actually clears Shepard's name in the eyes of the Alliance and the reason Anderson and Hackett treat you like they do after Horizon is that report. Well, how about that. The Vs is responsible for the Alliance finally seeing that Shepard has good reasons to work with Cerberus, though they still don't like it. (But I bet this point is just being ignored again or simply rejected.)

So in short: The mission of the VS was to investigate the connection between the missing colonists and Cerberus. And despite their emotional outbourst in the face of the person they thought dead for two years, they act professionally and write a report (as they were the only Alliance representative on Horizon I feell save to assume it was the VS, who has written it) that says that Shepard is actually not a traitor and has good reasons to work with Cerberus.

Yes, they reacted emotional (I don't have the superhuman expectation, that they should have remained calm and matter-of-fact in a situation like that), but in the end, they got over it and eventually acted professional, an action that seems impossible for many here and  I have a hard time to take anybody serious, who can't do the same.
But I trust the VS, because they show that level of professionalism. despite their personal feelings about Cerberus.
I, as Shepard and their former CO and friend, lover in some cases, don't hold a grudge against them because, they didn't choose to  join me, I had a good team and accomplsihed my mission. I don't need a friend to agree with me about everything and be with me every step of the way.
I am grateful they stayed true to themselves and were honest about how they felt about my dealings with Cerberus.
It's been fracking two years, a period longer than we knew each other, why should I expect them to just continue, where we left off, when I died ( yes, others did, but it isn't something I expect and I don't measure people based on the actions of others.)
And I am not willing to condemn anybody based on an emotionally charged five-minute-conversation. Granted, we don't get much more in the game, but I am not too blind to see the fact that it was their report, that made the Alliance understand my actions.

Personally I am not interested in this "stupid" Alliance vs "evil" Cerberus BS, that has taken over this thread.
To me it comes down to how I am willing to treat a person, that has been at my side for a few very important weeks in my life, despite them acting irrational, because I have done the same in my real life and I am grateful for the people, who haven't held it against me and have shown themselves to be real friends an not someone, who looked at me just for the affirmation of their actions.

To add a little specualtion an wishful thinking: I am pretty sure, they acted that cr*appy on Horizon, because they knew, if they listened, they would be tempted to go with me and betray their own oath to the Alliance. I am grateful they reported back and helped to fully restore the Alliance's trust in me.

And now I am going back to not writing as Shepard in the first person and  not treating this serious and simply being amused.

You bring up some excellent points.  Hmm... what you said about Ashley indeed helping Shepard well, that just brings to light an aspect I obviously overlooked.  Thanks! 

[HogarthHughes 3]

jreezy wrote...

So who exactly needs to be doing the restoring of trust here?

I think the VS needs to learn to trust Shepard again.  Of course, my Shepard won't apologize (or feel sorry about) working with and helping Cerberus, so that might not happen.  Ashley isn't entirely wrong when she says "you turned your back on everything we stood for," Shepard working with Cerberus is something of a betrayal of the Alliance (though their overarching purposes are very similar: to protect and advance humanity as a whole).  I would have liked Horizon better if the VS could say something along the lines of "I should've known" if Shepard had shown a disregard for morals in the past.  It seemed especially odd to me that Ashley was so perturbed by Shepard working with Cerberus, starting ME2 it seemed like Liara and Tali (and Kaidan if he were alive) would be the most miffed by a ruthless pro-human group.  Then Liara turns out to be fairly ruthless after two years (had to go back and choose her as a LI then ), Tali puts up a bit of a fuss but ultimately believes in Shepard, and Ashley of all people takes Shepards new "friends" as a personal betrayal.  The nationalist/speciesist soldier with a bit of xenophobia just can't stand the thought of working with Cerberus, those big evil monsters.  It isn't as though (like Seboist said earlier on this page) the SPECTREs aren't a very "ends justify the means"-esque group, is it so horrible to then work with a group of jingoists with the same philosophy on morals (to save hundreds of thousands of innocent lives I'll add)?  But eh Horizon isn't really a big deal in any way (at least to me).  If Ashley can let bygones be bygones so can Shepard, no apologies or lengthy explanations needed.  If she is still gonna try to claim moral superiority (and think of Shepard as a terrible person because of it), well then she could perhaps be fun to argue with?  It was great arguing with Kaidan about whether or not the Council was holding humanity back, I wish Jacob had offered the same opportunity in ME2.

Modifié par HogarthHughes 3, 16 août 2011 - 04:12 .

[1136342t54_]

HogarthHughes 3 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

So who exactly needs to be doing the restoring of trust here?

I think the VS needs to learn to trust Shepard again.  Of course, my Shepard won't apologize (or feel sorry about) working with and helping Cerberus, so that might not happen.  Ashley isn't entirely wrong when she says "you turned your back on everything we stood for," Shepard working with Cerberus is something of a betrayal of the Alliance.  I would have liked Horizon better if the VS could say something along the lines of "I should've known" if Shepard had shown a disregard for morals in the past.

The VS does trust Shep.

[Iakus]

jreezy wrote...

So who exactly needs to be doing the restoring of trust here?

The writers