1476 réponses à ce sujet

[ApplesauceBandit]

Hah! If they pull thank Rank crap on me, they're asking for a Renegade interrupt punch to the face!

[Soccer FeverMan]

Sheppard-Commander wrote...

Well, I have issue with your Shepard. It seems he has lost his sack. Even if you regain your Spectre status, when was the last time you heard Shepard address a council member in such a subordinate manner? And my Renegade/former Spectre sure as hell wont be kissing Udina's ass like that.

Udina is a councilor, not an Admiral. Him barking orders at Shepard with what to do with (presumably) now a ship that is Alliance property doesnt jive. It also should be mentioned that the SR2 became Shepard's property at the end of ME3.

While not inaccurate or anything...From those conversation I got the strong urge to beat Kaidan and Vega.

Well said, well said cuz me personally i'd just hit the renegade button and just punch Ashley/Kaidan in the face if they tried to order me around

sh*t ma Shepard's a thug 

[mulder1199]

demonic_cookie wrote...

I find it very strange that people think that Shepard's return of Spectre status is anything but a cheap political ploy by the Council. They're afraid the Savior of the Citadel will raise the stink, make them look bad in the process, or reawaken the hysteria that no doubt engulfed Council Space after the attack. They don't trust you, they're just throwing you a bone so you don't bite them in their collective alien behinds. And Anderson may be a military man, but he also realizes that whatever political influence he has now is because of your recommendation. He's a smart man, he won't voice his doubts in public.

elektrego is right, the Horizon situation is complicated. I for one am more mad at Shepard for being a complete derpface and not explaining things better. Not to mention that in the end VS survivor was right and working for Cerberus was a Bad Idea.

problem with that is cerb was the only group willing to investigate the colony issues, the alliance basically ignored this (though i think their recognition of shep as a spectre and telling him to stay in the terminus systems is their way of telling him to take care of things) he has to work with cerberus....you have the option to tell many you aren't with them.....

i guess we'll find out when ME3 comes out if bioware assumes shep is suspicious

[FieryDove]

Made Nightwing wrote...

I'd just like to see it referenced. Like it or not there ARE those who genuinely feel like they can't trust their old team mate.

It's more like...The VS no longer trust my shepards, Li or not without trust there isn't much left in my mind. I doubt this will get covered but who knows, it would be nice.

It's not Shepards fault he/she didn't contact them for 2 years. Shep was DEAD. Shep didn't ask to be brought back nor  have much choice in the railroad of who they were *working for* until the end when I could get some satisfaction and go against that ....employer's wishes.

Just my take on it...so imho

[crimzontearz]

elektrego wrote...

Why should they arrest him right then and there, when they have no proof one way or the other.

And exactly that black and white mentality is my problem, the inabilty to acknowledge the complexity of the situation. This and people having a knee jerk reaction without the abilty to move past it eventually. The VS is able to do so.

And regarding their history together - that wasn't even a year. Shepard has been dead longer than that. Especially Ashley has a much stronger connection to the Alliance.
Their lives outside the events of the game are much more than what we experience. I can't take people seriously, who refuse to see that.

the situation may be complex in the factors that lead to the outcome but the outcome itself is VERY binary

Trust shepard/Don't trust Shepard

(note Shepard, not Cerberus....Shepard himself  nor ANYONE on the team including Jacob and Miranda actually trusts Cerberus but EVERYONE trusts Shepard)
 
there is really no in-between

The Virmire survivor weighed in his knowledge of shepard (in my case, Shepard is the hero of the skillian blitz and a spacer), his experience with him/her (saved the citadel together....literally together on the last mission to stop saren, pretty much 100% paragon playthrough import, re-instated as spectre and yadda yadda yadda) against the situation at hand and chose NOT to trust Shepard

that's all there is to it in my mind

[Made Nightwing]

ApplesauceBandit wrote...

Hah! If they pull thank Rank crap on me, they're asking for a Renegade interrupt punch to the face!

Thank you for your fascinatingly original opinion. Thank you for ignoring that my OP was a scenario where they choose NOT to pull rank. Thank you for your attempted thread derailment. Now go away.

[Made Nightwing]

Soccer FeverMan wrote...

Sheppard-Commander wrote...

Well, I have issue with your Shepard. It seems he has lost his sack. Even if you regain your Spectre status, when was the last time you heard Shepard address a council member in such a subordinate manner? And my Renegade/former Spectre sure as hell wont be kissing Udina's ass like that.

Udina is a councilor, not an Admiral. Him barking orders at Shepard with what to do with (presumably) now a ship that is Alliance property doesnt jive. It also should be mentioned that the SR2 became Shepard's property at the end of ME3.

While not inaccurate or anything...From those conversation I got the strong urge to beat Kaidan and Vega.

Well said, well said cuz me personally i'd just hit the renegade button and just punch Ashley/Kaidan in the face if they tried to order me around

sh*t ma Shepard's a thug 

And did, at any stage, did you notice the later parts? About how the set up was for Ash/Kaidan to show their true colours? And did you also notice how I repeatedly requested that this thread remain free of the usual 'Imma so tough, Imma gonna be so hardcore and renegade PAWNCH the VS'? Did you? I didn't create this thread to be a spamming ground. I will report you to the mods next time you go off topic. Differing opinions are one thing, but when they're not related to the conversation at hand they shouldn't even be put up.

[Patchwork]

For both the VS and Shep (speaking for my Shepard here) there's the logical that understands Shepard using the only resource available to save the colonies. That the VS were right to be suspicious, it is Cerberus after all. Blind faith was never part of the VS's character especially Kaidan's.There's also the emotional where both parties feel betrayed. So much had happened and my Shepard was in a situation where she desperately wanted to trust someone but couldn't. She needed Kaidan more than she ever had and he turned his back. Whereas Kaidan grieved, suffered survivor's guilt and what's more plausible that Shepard was brought back to life or she defecated to Cerberus?

I don't think this should be something which should be swept away with one conversation.

Should the VS be happy that Shepard is swanning back in and taking over the Normandy 2.5 which is more than likely now theirs? They're Spectres not just another one of Shepard's lackeys. I don't want them kowtowing to Shepard. Of course I want the Normandy completely under Shepard's command, contrary moi? but have the Council/Alliance put Shepard there. Let the situation with the VS simmer, let both sides be upset and over the first half of the game reach a new equilibrium.

I like that the VS is independent just as I like that Liara treats Shepard as person not a saviour.

[Wulfram]

mulder1199 wrote...

problem with that is cerb was the only group willing to investigate the colony issues, the alliance basically ignored this

The Alliance were investigating - Freedom's progress was the first occasion that Cerberus got there before the official investigators.  It just happened that this time there was a survivor.

[caraniente]

crimzontearz wrote...


the situation may be complex in the factors that lead to the outcome but the outcome itself is VERY binary

Trust shepard/Don't trust Shepard

(note Shepard, not Cerberus....Shepard himself  nor ANYONE on the team including Jacob and Miranda actually trusts Cerberus but EVERYONE trusts Shepard)
 

See, in my mind there's a big difference between trusting Shep and Cerberus. At that point the VS doesn't know what has gone on - it's mentioned in interactions with both VSs that there's worries over Shep being controlled in some way, and don't forget Miranda's original intention to put a control chip in Shep.

Trusting Shep believes he/she is doing the right thing - sure. Trusting that Cerberus isn't f*cking with their heads - no. Throwing away their careers, their whole lives, to join Shep on that basis - no. Hell, I don't have a single Shep - even the ones that think Cerberus has the right idea - who doesn't think TIM is playing them in some way. He brought Shep back for his own reasons, he's using them for his own reasons, and when whatever little plan he has ends, he'll throw them away without a second thought.

So yeah, in my head, that conversation goes something like:
VS: "About what I said on Horizon... I'm sorry. I trusted you, I knew you were doing what you thought had to be done, but I didn't trust Cerberus. I had to check things out my own way."
Shep: "I understand. I didn't trust them either. I'm not saying things can just go back to the way they were, but lets see how things go, ok?"

[ThePwener]

Doesn't matter what they do. Kaidan will be mildly tolerated aboard the Normandy. It may have an Alliance logo outside, but it ain't they're property. My Shepard isn't Alliance anymore, neither is the crew or anyone else aboard if they know what's good for them.

If Kaidan even tries his new Spectre status on me his going to get slapped upside the head.

[Nightdragon8]

funny enough tho, by the time ME3 starts Shep is back in the Alliance. so there shouldn't be an issue there. Your Spectre status may be an issue but my guess is that you will still keep your rank. (maybe a level of demotion on paper when the trail gets interrupted. Then you say "See "Reapers" I told you so."

[ThePwener]

No, Anderson reinstates Shepard, but we don't know how we can react. Anderson offered us the Spectre title, and we could refuse it. I bet we'll be able to say yes or no later in the game.

[sighineedname]

crimzontearz wrote...

the situation may be complex in the factors that lead to the outcome but the outcome itself is VERY binary

Trust shepard/Don't trust Shepard

"I wouldn't have expected you to work for Cerberus, but I know why they sent you to Horizon. I saw how many people were lost there, and if anyone can stop the Collectors, you can. I can't go where you're going, but I can wish you luck."

That seems inbetween to me. Kaiden says something similar if he is your LI as far as I know. 

[Ultai]

It's all just a big misunderstanding and mostly bad writing on Shep's part. Problem is some people consider their Shepard infallible or space jesus and think no one should ever question him/her because they're always right.  If there are apologies, it should come from both.  Possibly starting with Shep first.

[ThePwener]

Ultai wrote...

It's all just a big misunderstanding and mostly bad writing on Shep's part. Problem is some people consider their Shepard infallible or space jesus and think no one should ever question him/her because they're always right.  If there are apologies, it should come from both.  Possibly starting with Shep first.

Not really. Kaidan contradicted himself way too much in Horizon and acted like a complete jerkass. He denied the Reapers just like the Council did.

[mulder1199]

more than likely kaiden would stay on my ship unless necessary anyways....never used him in ME1 as it is....and he was generally was my Virmire non-survivor....

it seemed to me he was always pretty worthless in battle...

[crimzontearz]

sighineedname wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
the situation may be complex in the factors that lead to the outcome but the outcome itself is VERY binary

Trust shepard/Don't trust Shepard

"I wouldn't have expected you to work for Cerberus, but I know why they sent you to Horizon. I saw how many people were lost there, and if anyone can stop the Collectors, you can. I can't go where you're going, but I can wish you luck."


That seems inbetween to me. Kaiden says something similar if he is your LI as far as I know. 

you get the e-mails only by your LI otherwise you get nothing...and that is much better than nothing

[Made Nightwing]

Ser Bard wrote...

For both the VS and Shep (speaking for my Shepard here) there's the logical that understands Shepard using the only resource available to save the colonies. That the VS were right to be suspicious, it is Cerberus after all. Blind faith was never part of the VS's character especially Kaidan's.There's also the emotional where both parties feel betrayed. So much had happened and my Shepard was in a situation where she desperately wanted to trust someone but couldn't. She needed Kaidan more than she ever had and he turned his back. Whereas Kaidan grieved, suffered survivor's guilt and what's more plausible that Shepard was brought back to life or she defecated to Cerberus?

I don't think this should be something which should be swept away with one conversation.

Should the VS be happy that Shepard is swanning back in and taking over the Normandy 2.5 which is more than likely now theirs? They're Spectres not just another one of Shepard's lackeys. I don't want them kowtowing to Shepard. Of course I want the Normandy completely under Shepard's command, contrary moi? but have the Council/Alliance put Shepard there. Let the situation with the VS simmer, let both sides be upset and over the first half of the game reach a new equilibrium.

I like that the VS is independent just as I like that Liara treats Shepard as person not a saviour.

Well said.

[Made Nightwing]

mulder1199 wrote...

more than likely kaiden would stay on my ship unless necessary anyways....never used him in ME1 as it is....and he was generally was my Virmire non-survivor....

it seemed to me he was always pretty worthless in battle...

Kaidan's status as the VS, or how powerful he is in battle (pretty ****ing badass, like Liara and Tali rolled into one) is not the topic of this thread. Please go elsewhere to discuss squad powers.

[Made Nightwing]

ThePwener wrote...

Ultai wrote...

It's all just a big misunderstanding and mostly bad writing on Shep's part. Problem is some people consider their Shepard infallible or space jesus and think no one should ever question him/her because they're always right.  If there are apologies, it should come from both.  Possibly starting with Shep first.

Not really. Kaidan contradicted himself way too much in Horizon and acted like a complete jerkass. He denied the Reapers just like the Council did.

Please quote parts where he contradicted himself or denied the Reapers, or else don't flame.

Honestly, I don't know where you guys get these ideas. Anderson tells you that they were searching for evidence that PROVED the existence of the Reapers, but were unable to find any.

[Soccer FeverMan]

[/quote]

Okay, damn good work. Some people don't want a flat out apology, but that kind of scenario works for me. Particularly if Shepard's Ultra Paragon and the VS didn't have as much reason to tear into them as they would to a super pro-human Renegade Shep.[/quote]

woah woah woah not all renegades are super pro human, i play as a renegade shepard but when it came time for me to be a xenophobe i didn't do it. I put Ash and Pressly in their place when they started talking sh*t about my boys Garrus and Wrex

[Made Nightwing]

[quote]Soccer FeverMan wrote...

[/quote]

Okay, damn good work. Some people don't want a flat out apology, but that kind of scenario works for me. Particularly if Shepard's Ultra Paragon and the VS didn't have as much reason to tear into them as they would to a super pro-human Renegade Shep.[/quote]

woah woah woah not all renegades are super pro human, i play as a renegade shepard but when it came time for me to be a xenophobe i didn't do it. I put Ash and Pressly in their place when they started talking sh*t about my boys Garrus and Wrex
[/quote]

Put them in their place? Shepard makes a few passive-aggressive statements that make Ash/Pressly re-examine their opinions on aliens.

[Soccer FeverMan]

Dr. Nexas wrote...

Ash/Kaiden: I told you so about Cerberus.

Personally i hate cerburus, but at the very point of the matter if it wasn't for cerburus colonies would have kept on vanishing. With the collectors getting closer to creating a human reaper. 

Basically if Ash/Kaidan said that you me i'd have my shepard punch in the face