Progressive_Stupidity1 wrote...
They help rescue Shepard off earth. I'm not gonna hold one hissy fit against them.
not really if credit goes to anyone it would be to captain Anderson and Joker, but i do kinda see your point (slightly)
Restoring Trust with the VS
Débuté par
Made Nightwing
, juil. 06 2011 11:01
#176
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 11:47
Soccer FeverMan
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not really if credit goes to anyone it would be to captain Anderson and Joker, but i do kinda see your point (slightly)
Retour en haut
#177
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 12:24
Made Nightwing
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Soccer FeverMan wrote...
Dr. Nexas wrote...
Ash/Kaiden: I told you so about Cerberus.
Personally i hate cerburus, but at the very point of the matter if it wasn't for cerburus colonies would have kept on vanishing. With the collectors getting closer to creating a human reaper.
Basically if Ash/Kaidan said that you me i'd have my shepard punch in the face
Actually, it's more like they told you that you couldn't trust Cerberus, and you couldn't. Let's face it, the only support you EVER got from Cerberus was one ship, a crew, an executive officer and one soldier. The rest you had to get for yourself. The Illusive man gave you directions that were frequently false, all to get his hands on the Collector Base. And now they're gunning for you in ME3.
So, to put forward a scenario:
Ash: Guess I was right about Cerberus, huh?
Shepard: But....*Cerberus Atlas Mech starts firing rockets at their position*. Yeah, you were right.
#178
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 12:32
ISpeakTheTruth
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My Shepard doesn't trust Cerberus at all so if Ash tries to tell me I told you so than I'm not going to take that kind of statement very well at all. The character is already on shacky ground as it is with me if they try to get snarky with me than that would take away any valididty to any apology that came from them.
Its best to have some kind of apology and leave everything else alone.
Its best to have some kind of apology and leave everything else alone.
#179
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 12:36
HogarthHughes 3
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Made Nightwing wrote...
Actually, it's more like they told you that you couldn't trust Cerberus, and you couldn't. Let's face it, the only support you EVER got from Cerberus was one ship, a crew, an executive officer and one soldier. The rest you had to get for yourself. The Illusive man gave you directions that were frequently false, all to get his hands on the Collector Base. And now they're gunning for you in ME3.
So, to put forward a scenario:
Ash: Guess I was right about Cerberus, huh?
Shepard: But....*Cerberus Atlas Mech starts firing rockets at their position*. Yeah, you were right.
Cerberus almost exclusively funds Shepard throughout ME2, provides nearly all intel, and helps to cover Shepards tracks when needed (Thane recruitment and Garrus LM for example).
If Ashley gets all "told you so" with my renegon Shepard he'll just ignore her. Would it have been better to be locked up by the Alliance for interrogation over Shepards "disappearance" rather than saving the lives of innocent colonists?. It is strange to me that of all the companions, only the humans feel betrayed by Shepard working with Cerberus. I can see why the VS feels that way though, its unfortunate but that is just how the cookie crumbled apparently. However if the VS still doesn't trust Shepards judgement come ME3, then I don't want them on the Normandy. Not because I don't like them of course, it simply wouldn't be smart to have soldiers questioning their CO's every order.
Modifié par HogarthHughes 3, 09 juillet 2011 - 12:55 .
#180
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 01:00
sighineedname
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crimzontearz wrote...
you get the e-mails only by your LI otherwise you get nothing...and that is much better than nothing
Right. My only point was that your claim it is trust or not trust is not true. If they aren't your LI they could have similar feelings, but not as much desire to express them.
#181
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 01:02
Made Nightwing
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HogarthHughes 3 wrote...
Made Nightwing wrote...
Actually, it's more like they told you that you couldn't trust Cerberus, and you couldn't. Let's face it, the only support you EVER got from Cerberus was one ship, a crew, an executive officer and one soldier. The rest you had to get for yourself. The Illusive man gave you directions that were frequently false, all to get his hands on the Collector Base. And now they're gunning for you in ME3.
So, to put forward a scenario:
Ash: Guess I was right about Cerberus, huh?
Shepard: But....*Cerberus Atlas Mech starts firing rockets at their position*. Yeah, you were right.
Cerberus almost exclusively funds Shepard throughout ME2, provides nearly all intel, and helps to cover Shepards tracks when needed (Thane recruitment and Garrus LM for example).
If Ashley gets all "told you so" with my renegon Shepard he'll just ignore her. Would it have been better to be locked up by the Alliance for interrogation over Shepards "disappearance" rather than saving the lives of innocent colonists?. It is strange to me that of all the companions, only the humans feel betrayed by Shepard working with Cerberus. I can see why the VS feels that way though, its unfortunate but that is just how the cookie crumbled apparently. However if the VS still doesn't trust Shepards judgement come ME3, then I don't want them on the Normandy. Not because I don't like them of course, it simply wouldn't be smart to have soldiers questioning their CO's every order.
And that's what my OP was about. I don't particularly want some theoretical declaration of trust, or some half-assed apology. I'd actually like to see the VS snark (just a little bit). What I do want, is that when push comes to shove, when it comes right down to it, the VS shows that actions of trust speak louder than words.
#182
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 01:05
Made Nightwing
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ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
My Shepard doesn't trust Cerberus at all so if Ash tries to tell me I told you so than I'm not going to take that kind of statement very well at all. The character is already on shacky ground as it is with me if they try to get snarky with me than that would take away any valididty to any apology that came from them.
Its best to have some kind of apology and leave everything else alone.
If Shepard didn't trust Cerberus to begin with, then it should be something humorous instead, getting back the old banter that happened in ME1:
*In the middle of a firefight with Cerberus*
Ashley: Guess I was right.....
Shepard: I know, I know! I felt that way from the beginning!
Ashley: Don't worry Skipper
, just yanking your chain.
#183
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 01:12
Taritu
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It's all BS. On the one hand after the events of ME1, yeah, anyone sane would wonder WTF Shepard is doing with Cerberus. Kotaku, etc...
OTOH, I don't recall the narrative ever giving me a choice to not work with Cerberus. Frankly, I'm about 50/50 that when I found out I was on a Cerberus base at the beginning, I would have just killed the Cerb ops, and made my escape on my own (when they turn their back to get on the shuttle, bang, bang.) Or when talking to Anderson, propose to go undercover and break Cerberus, or... any number of other opportunities. Shep was on a railroad, so people feel blamed by the VS for something that wasn't their choice. No way my Sole Survivor would have worked with Cerberus, even if he'd played along, he would have betrayed first opportunity.
The story never made much sense. Not so much that it was on rails (ME1 was on rails), but that it seemed to against everything an even slightly Paragon Shep stood for in the original game.
So, my lost trust isn't for the VS, it's for the Devs. Obviously I'll still play the game, I'm still a fan. But ME2's story was crap compared to ME1, and DA2's ending was crap, and if Bioware can't tell coherent stories, they're just another game developer, and not one with the best gameplay.
So the trust I want to see restored is my trust in the Bioware writing team. Tell an awesome story that feels coherent.
OTOH, I don't recall the narrative ever giving me a choice to not work with Cerberus. Frankly, I'm about 50/50 that when I found out I was on a Cerberus base at the beginning, I would have just killed the Cerb ops, and made my escape on my own (when they turn their back to get on the shuttle, bang, bang.) Or when talking to Anderson, propose to go undercover and break Cerberus, or... any number of other opportunities. Shep was on a railroad, so people feel blamed by the VS for something that wasn't their choice. No way my Sole Survivor would have worked with Cerberus, even if he'd played along, he would have betrayed first opportunity.
The story never made much sense. Not so much that it was on rails (ME1 was on rails), but that it seemed to against everything an even slightly Paragon Shep stood for in the original game.
So, my lost trust isn't for the VS, it's for the Devs. Obviously I'll still play the game, I'm still a fan. But ME2's story was crap compared to ME1, and DA2's ending was crap, and if Bioware can't tell coherent stories, they're just another game developer, and not one with the best gameplay.
So the trust I want to see restored is my trust in the Bioware writing team. Tell an awesome story that feels coherent.
#184
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 01:50
crimzontearz
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sighineedname wrote...
crimzontearz wrote...
you get the e-mails only by your LI otherwise you get nothing...and that is much better than nothing
Right. My only point was that your claim it is trust or not trust is not true. If they aren't your LI they could have similar feelings, but not as much desire to express them.
good for them
they can come and say that to my face in ME3 in a way that makes me forgive them for being such lil ***** on Horizon. Or else my sentiment will pretty much remain the same and they can rot on the Normandy. I'm not going to have someone around who second guesses me like that
#185
Guest_elektrego_*
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 08:47
Guest_elektrego_*
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I had a thought yesterday, that is related to the topic.
What if the Alliance gets completely obliterated? What I gathered from the E3 demo is, that at least the Earth's defense units are gone by the time Shepard gets rescued by the Normandy.
Anderson's last orders to Shepard are practically to do anything to gather allies to defeat the reapers. There is much room for interpretation in that order and not much room for defying anything.
So will the Alliance have left anything resembling a command structure by the time "Team Normandy" is on its mission, to give any more specific orders?
Thinking of it, once Shepard became a Spectre in ME1, the Alliance, i.e. Hackett never ordered Shepard to do anything, they had to ASK him for favours.
As for the council, they don't really seem to give orders to their Spectres as well. The way I remember it, they were making suggestions as to what Shepard should do, that never seemed to have much of a binding quality. The very nature of the Spectres is to preserve galactic peace by whatever means necessary, how they do it is their own buisness.
So, again, I doubt there will be any specific orders you can actually defy and that are therefore causing a situation where loyalties will be tested.
I can actually understand when someone says they don't like them and are unable to trust them in their support of Shepard, I have no problem with that, but you will probably have to wait a long time to put it to the test.
You should however be able to trust that they will do anything to fight the Reapers and Cerberus in the situation you are in. Based on their characters you should at least be able to trust them, when you engage those enemies; an elite soldier, (former) spectre and hero like Shepard should at least be able to seperate personal and professional trust.
The idea presented in the OP is fun to speculate about, but I don't really see it happening that way.
What I can see is this.
By the end of the game, once it has become clear that we can actually win this thing, Shepard has to make a decision that will influence the future of the Alliance. Shall the Alliance be restored after the Reapers are defeated or shall it rest in peace and make way for a new future?
In this I see a potential confrontation with the VS that will show if they are on the same page by then or not.
edit:
Another scenario, I just thought of after hitting the submit button:
You come across an Alliance outpost that is under attack by Cerberus troops. You can either help them or leave them to their fate, because you don't have time to save one small outpost.
This might cause a nice argument with the VS and a chance for you to see if they are able to fall in line.
What if the Alliance gets completely obliterated? What I gathered from the E3 demo is, that at least the Earth's defense units are gone by the time Shepard gets rescued by the Normandy.
Anderson's last orders to Shepard are practically to do anything to gather allies to defeat the reapers. There is much room for interpretation in that order and not much room for defying anything.
So will the Alliance have left anything resembling a command structure by the time "Team Normandy" is on its mission, to give any more specific orders?
Thinking of it, once Shepard became a Spectre in ME1, the Alliance, i.e. Hackett never ordered Shepard to do anything, they had to ASK him for favours.
As for the council, they don't really seem to give orders to their Spectres as well. The way I remember it, they were making suggestions as to what Shepard should do, that never seemed to have much of a binding quality. The very nature of the Spectres is to preserve galactic peace by whatever means necessary, how they do it is their own buisness.
So, again, I doubt there will be any specific orders you can actually defy and that are therefore causing a situation where loyalties will be tested.
I can actually understand when someone says they don't like them and are unable to trust them in their support of Shepard, I have no problem with that, but you will probably have to wait a long time to put it to the test.
You should however be able to trust that they will do anything to fight the Reapers and Cerberus in the situation you are in. Based on their characters you should at least be able to trust them, when you engage those enemies; an elite soldier, (former) spectre and hero like Shepard should at least be able to seperate personal and professional trust.
The idea presented in the OP is fun to speculate about, but I don't really see it happening that way.
What I can see is this.
By the end of the game, once it has become clear that we can actually win this thing, Shepard has to make a decision that will influence the future of the Alliance. Shall the Alliance be restored after the Reapers are defeated or shall it rest in peace and make way for a new future?
In this I see a potential confrontation with the VS that will show if they are on the same page by then or not.
edit:
Another scenario, I just thought of after hitting the submit button:
You come across an Alliance outpost that is under attack by Cerberus troops. You can either help them or leave them to their fate, because you don't have time to save one small outpost.
This might cause a nice argument with the VS and a chance for you to see if they are able to fall in line.
Modifié par elektrego, 09 juillet 2011 - 09:11 .
#186
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 12:50
crimzontearz
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I have no issue trusting them in battle. I have an issue, at this point, trusting them to trust me without question and without faltering.
also, they pissed me off
So at this point we will see....all in all I can't wait
also, they pissed me off
So at this point we will see....all in all I can't wait
#187
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 05:37
Soccer FeverMan
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laecraft wrote...
Memmahkth wrote...
Judging from the demo we saw of Shepard escaping Earth (which, could change mind you) it would appear that the VS rescues you. I don't really know how much more loyal they can be.
That's not VS' initiative. Captain Anderson orders VS to do so. He's the one who calls the ship. VS merely follows the Alliance orders...as usual.
Notice that Shepard is NOT the one who calls Normandy. It could be because he doesn't have the clearance to do so. VS might not have listened to him if he called. It would seem that Alliance has the Normandy, and VS is in charge of the ship, and Anderson orders Shepard's pickup. I can't see where VS rescues Shepard, here.
That is an assumption on your part, just because Anderson calls the Normandy it automatically means it is in the Alliances possesion and the VS is in charge. Please tell me how that would be possible
#188
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 08:42
Silent X
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I hope this doesn't come across as necro-ing. . . I wanted to reply to this topic last night but was too tired.
Personally, I'm more worried about getting the VS to trust Shepard than the other way around. I realize this depends on both player attitude and how you roleplay your Shep, but mine's a major Paragon who despises Cerberus and felt dirty the whole time she was working with them. Then Arrival happened. So as of where ME2 left off, my Shepard is pretty guilt-ridden and understands why Kaidan wouldn't trust her. (If you consider it relevant, he was not her LI; they were just friends.)
I could see a conversation somewhat like this happening:
Kaidan: Shepard. Looks like we're going to be working together again.
Shepard: Yeah. [awkward pause] Is that going to be a problem?
Kaidan: Anderson still seems to trust you. . . But I don't understand the things I've been hearing about you. First Cerberus, then the Bahak system? That's not like the Commander I knew.
Shepard: I know how it looks. [begins pacing] I tried to explain on Horizon, but I didn't do a very good job. Look. Cerberus brought me back. I didn't have a say in that. They told me colonies were disappearing. So I went running back to the Council the first chance I got. They grudgingly reinstated me as a Spectre and told me they couldn't do anything else. And. . . I'm sorry, Kaidan, but. . . the Alliance wasn't in a good position to do anything about the disappearances either. I collaborated with Cerberus because I couldn't see a better option. If I could, I would have taken it. But the Collectors had to be stopped, so I worked with them. And as soon as the Collectors were taken care of, I got out. The Bahak system. . . The Reapers were about to come pouring through that relay, and from there they could have been anywhere in the galaxy in days. I blew up that relay to buy the whole galaxy time. [pause] I know I killed 300,000 people. And I'm going to have to find a way to live with that. I understand where you're coming from. You're not sure if I'm the same person you knew two years ago. Just do one thing for me, if you would?
Kaidan: What's that?
Shepard: Just give me a chance to earn back your trust. To show you I haven't changed. The Reapers are here. I need your help.
Whew, sorry, that got long-winded. OP, I also like your examples. They remind me of a couple of great Star Trek scenes. I don't know if that was at all intentional.
Personally, I'm more worried about getting the VS to trust Shepard than the other way around. I realize this depends on both player attitude and how you roleplay your Shep, but mine's a major Paragon who despises Cerberus and felt dirty the whole time she was working with them. Then Arrival happened. So as of where ME2 left off, my Shepard is pretty guilt-ridden and understands why Kaidan wouldn't trust her. (If you consider it relevant, he was not her LI; they were just friends.)
I could see a conversation somewhat like this happening:
Kaidan: Shepard. Looks like we're going to be working together again.
Shepard: Yeah. [awkward pause] Is that going to be a problem?
Kaidan: Anderson still seems to trust you. . . But I don't understand the things I've been hearing about you. First Cerberus, then the Bahak system? That's not like the Commander I knew.
Shepard: I know how it looks. [begins pacing] I tried to explain on Horizon, but I didn't do a very good job. Look. Cerberus brought me back. I didn't have a say in that. They told me colonies were disappearing. So I went running back to the Council the first chance I got. They grudgingly reinstated me as a Spectre and told me they couldn't do anything else. And. . . I'm sorry, Kaidan, but. . . the Alliance wasn't in a good position to do anything about the disappearances either. I collaborated with Cerberus because I couldn't see a better option. If I could, I would have taken it. But the Collectors had to be stopped, so I worked with them. And as soon as the Collectors were taken care of, I got out. The Bahak system. . . The Reapers were about to come pouring through that relay, and from there they could have been anywhere in the galaxy in days. I blew up that relay to buy the whole galaxy time. [pause] I know I killed 300,000 people. And I'm going to have to find a way to live with that. I understand where you're coming from. You're not sure if I'm the same person you knew two years ago. Just do one thing for me, if you would?
Kaidan: What's that?
Shepard: Just give me a chance to earn back your trust. To show you I haven't changed. The Reapers are here. I need your help.
Whew, sorry, that got long-winded. OP, I also like your examples. They remind me of a couple of great Star Trek scenes. I don't know if that was at all intentional.
#189
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 10:42
Guest_laecraft_*
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Soccer FeverMan wrote...
laecraft wrote...
Memmahkth wrote...
Judging from the demo we saw of Shepard escaping Earth (which, could change mind you) it would appear that the VS rescues you. I don't really know how much more loyal they can be.
That's not VS' initiative. Captain Anderson orders VS to do so. He's the one who calls the ship. VS merely follows the Alliance orders...as usual.
Notice that Shepard is NOT the one who calls Normandy. It could be because he doesn't have the clearance to do so. VS might not have listened to him if he called. It would seem that Alliance has the Normandy, and VS is in charge of the ship, and Anderson orders Shepard's pickup. I can't see where VS rescues Shepard, here.
That is an assumption on your part, just because Anderson calls the Normandy it automatically means it is in the Alliances possesion and the VS is in charge. Please tell me how that would be possible
We know that the Alliance has the Normandy. It's painted blue and has Alliance logos all over it. VS is on board and is a ranking officer...if they're not in charge, then I wonder who is. It's definitely not Shepard, since he's not the one calling the Normandy.
#190
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 10:47
Made Nightwing
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Silent X wrote...
I hope this doesn't come across as necro-ing. . . I wanted to reply to this topic last night but was too tired.
Personally, I'm more worried about getting the VS to trust Shepard than the other way around. I realize this depends on both player attitude and how you roleplay your Shep, but mine's a major Paragon who despises Cerberus and felt dirty the whole time she was working with them. Then Arrival happened. So as of where ME2 left off, my Shepard is pretty guilt-ridden and understands why Kaidan wouldn't trust her. (If you consider it relevant, he was not her LI; they were just friends.)
I could see a conversation somewhat like this happening:
Kaidan: Shepard. Looks like we're going to be working together again.
Shepard: Yeah. [awkward pause] Is that going to be a problem?
Kaidan: Anderson still seems to trust you. . . But I don't understand the things I've been hearing about you. First Cerberus, then the Bahak system? That's not like the Commander I knew.
Shepard: I know how it looks. [begins pacing] I tried to explain on Horizon, but I didn't do a very good job. Look. Cerberus brought me back. I didn't have a say in that. They told me colonies were disappearing. So I went running back to the Council the first chance I got. They grudgingly reinstated me as a Spectre and told me they couldn't do anything else. And. . . I'm sorry, Kaidan, but. . . the Alliance wasn't in a good position to do anything about the disappearances either. I collaborated with Cerberus because I couldn't see a better option. If I could, I would have taken it. But the Collectors had to be stopped, so I worked with them. And as soon as the Collectors were taken care of, I got out. The Bahak system. . . The Reapers were about to come pouring through that relay, and from there they could have been anywhere in the galaxy in days. I blew up that relay to buy the whole galaxy time. [pause] I know I killed 300,000 people. And I'm going to have to find a way to live with that. I understand where you're coming from. You're not sure if I'm the same person you knew two years ago. Just do one thing for me, if you would?
Kaidan: What's that?
Shepard: Just give me a chance to earn back your trust. To show you I haven't changed. The Reapers are here. I need your help.
Whew, sorry, that got long-winded. OP, I also like your examples. They remind me of a couple of great Star Trek scenes. I don't know if that was at all intentional.
Completely intentional, I'm a massive Trekkie.
#191
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 10:57
Dexi
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Silent X wrote...
I hope this doesn't come across as necro-ing. . . I wanted to reply to this topic last night but was too tired.
Personally, I'm more worried about getting the VS to trust Shepard than the other way around. I realize this depends on both player attitude and how you roleplay your Shep, but mine's a major Paragon who despises Cerberus and felt dirty the whole time she was working with them. Then Arrival happened. So as of where ME2 left off, my Shepard is pretty guilt-ridden and understands why Kaidan wouldn't trust her. (If you consider it relevant, he was not her LI; they were just friends.)
I could see a conversation somewhat like this happening:
Kaidan: Shepard. Looks like we're going to be working together again.
Shepard: Yeah. [awkward pause] Is that going to be a problem?
Kaidan: Anderson still seems to trust you. . . But I don't understand the things I've been hearing about you. First Cerberus, then the Bahak system? That's not like the Commander I knew.
Shepard: I know how it looks. [begins pacing] I tried to explain on Horizon, but I didn't do a very good job. Look. Cerberus brought me back. I didn't have a say in that. They told me colonies were disappearing. So I went running back to the Council the first chance I got. They grudgingly reinstated me as a Spectre and told me they couldn't do anything else. And. . . I'm sorry, Kaidan, but. . . the Alliance wasn't in a good position to do anything about the disappearances either. I collaborated with Cerberus because I couldn't see a better option. If I could, I would have taken it. But the Collectors had to be stopped, so I worked with them. And as soon as the Collectors were taken care of, I got out. The Bahak system. . . The Reapers were about to come pouring through that relay, and from there they could have been anywhere in the galaxy in days. I blew up that relay to buy the whole galaxy time. [pause] I know I killed 300,000 people. And I'm going to have to find a way to live with that. I understand where you're coming from. You're not sure if I'm the same person you knew two years ago. Just do one thing for me, if you would?
Kaidan: What's that?
Shepard: Just give me a chance to earn back your trust. To show you I haven't changed. The Reapers are here. I need your help.
Whew, sorry, that got long-winded. OP, I also like your examples. They remind me of a couple of great Star Trek scenes. I don't know if that was at all intentional.
If it's anything like that, I'm hugely great I left Kaidan to die.
I see absolutely no reason for Shepard to apologize this much and justify his actions.
It was Cerberus who brought him back to life. Without Cerberus Shepard would still be dead.
Through Cerberus and Cerberus resources Shepard defeated the Collectors, saved human lives and gave the Reapers a harder job to do.
The fact that now Cerberus is indoctrinated is a whole other story.
It was not Shepard who was wrong. Kaidan/Ashely was the wrong one. But now it's not the same thing, the problem's data changed, so no reason for Shepard to be that apologizing.
"Shepard: Just give me a chance to earn back your trust. To show you I haven't changed. The Reapers are here. I need your help." that's more of what a women that cheated on his husband would tell him to regain his trust, not an elite soldier to another regarding the battle with the apocalypse.
The rest, for me, it sounds like a kid trying to escape a punishment from his parent...
#192
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 12:36
DragonIroh001
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If Kaidan/Ash, still shows a lack of trust or acts as worse as they did on Horizon to Shepard I'd say something like this to them.
But if they're willing to let bygones be bygones, so will I.
I'm sorry that I died. I'm sorry that I saved all those colonists on Horizon, including your ungrateful hide from the Collectors. I'm sorry that I did your job better than you did. As with everything else, it's the thought that counts.
But if they're willing to let bygones be bygones, so will I.
#193
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 01:22
Wynne
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I'm with Dexi on the Kaidan/Shep convo there--no, Kaidan doesn't deserve that much of an apology; neither does Ash.
After all they and Shepard went through, to at least LISTEN is the least they could've done. They didn't. They pulled that finger-wagging "I'm disappointed in you, I have standards but you've forgotten yours, you let me think you were dead" crap. In that vein, Shepard apologizing is nothing less than laughably ridiculous. Even if Shepard had a real choice available, Cerberus was the best option at that point. The Alliance had its hands tied and the Council had its head in the same collective rectal cavity where it has always dwelled. So no, Shepard wasn't to blame for their reactions on Horizon.
If they realize that they didn't understand the situation in ME2, I will be fine with them. But if they pull that high horse thing a second time, I'll stick them in an escape pod and hit the damned eject button.
After all they and Shepard went through, to at least LISTEN is the least they could've done. They didn't. They pulled that finger-wagging "I'm disappointed in you, I have standards but you've forgotten yours, you let me think you were dead" crap. In that vein, Shepard apologizing is nothing less than laughably ridiculous. Even if Shepard had a real choice available, Cerberus was the best option at that point. The Alliance had its hands tied and the Council had its head in the same collective rectal cavity where it has always dwelled. So no, Shepard wasn't to blame for their reactions on Horizon.
Yeah, that sounds about right to me. (And it would be even sweeter if they recognized the fact that you're choosing a Renegade option when you're 90% Paragon. "It isn't like you to get so intense.")DragonIroh001 wrote...
I'm sorry that I died. I'm sorry that I saved all those colonists on Horizon, including your ungrateful hide from the Collectors. I'm sorry that I did your job better than you did.
If they realize that they didn't understand the situation in ME2, I will be fine with them. But if they pull that high horse thing a second time, I'll stick them in an escape pod and hit the damned eject button.
#194
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 01:33
crimzontearz
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why the hell would THEY deserve an apology at all
no seriously...
no seriously...
#195
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 02:11
xxSgt_Reed_24xx
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god forbid someone actually disagrees with/doesn't follow the almighty Shepard blindly!
"Omg, you don't want to, drop anything and everything you're doing, to follow me at this point in time!? what a traitor! wah, wah, wah!" Quit being so butthurt.
The fact that the VS are more independent than the rest of the squad is what makes them more ... real... to me and it's one of the reasons I love the VS.
That being said...
they have a good reason not to join up with you. They feel betrayed by you b/c you are working with a group that they only know as a terrorist organization. Of course they are going to be suspicious. Add in the shock they are feeling from seeing you alive after they thought you were dead for the last two years (potentially their lover)... then they acted pretty calm imo. In fact, the other squaddies that knew you from ME1 should have made a bigger, "omg shepard! you're alive!?" than they did.
They also acknowledge that they know what you are doing and why you have to do what you're doing in their email (if they're your LI anyway).
Besides, who's to say they didn't have their own important mission that they were on (perhaps working against the collectors themselves, as Hackett says the alliance was doing in arrival) and couldn't go with you? Maybe they had to make you want to leave them behind?
We don't know how loyal the VS is to Shepard until ME3... still I don't see the point in being so butthurt over the actions on horizon.
"Omg, you don't want to, drop anything and everything you're doing, to follow me at this point in time!? what a traitor! wah, wah, wah!" Quit being so butthurt.
The fact that the VS are more independent than the rest of the squad is what makes them more ... real... to me and it's one of the reasons I love the VS.
That being said...
they have a good reason not to join up with you. They feel betrayed by you b/c you are working with a group that they only know as a terrorist organization. Of course they are going to be suspicious. Add in the shock they are feeling from seeing you alive after they thought you were dead for the last two years (potentially their lover)... then they acted pretty calm imo. In fact, the other squaddies that knew you from ME1 should have made a bigger, "omg shepard! you're alive!?" than they did.
They also acknowledge that they know what you are doing and why you have to do what you're doing in their email (if they're your LI anyway).
Besides, who's to say they didn't have their own important mission that they were on (perhaps working against the collectors themselves, as Hackett says the alliance was doing in arrival) and couldn't go with you? Maybe they had to make you want to leave them behind?
We don't know how loyal the VS is to Shepard until ME3... still I don't see the point in being so butthurt over the actions on horizon.
#196
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 02:30
crimzontearz
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that from someone who is obviously biased (look at your sig)
also, you know what? screw this
Shepard is an N7 (somethig Ash and Kaiden are not), a spectre (again something the VS is not at least until ME3), savior of the citatel, hero of the skillian blitz (can they boast anything like that?), half of t he galaxy owes him, and he just saved the VS's ***.......AGAIN!
so guess what? yes god forbid they are moroinc enough to think he is a common goon working for cerberus without even giving him a chance to explain or see reason (like Tali and Garrus do for instance). If they decide that the situation outweighs what they know about Shepard and warrants them acting like spoiled children then **** them. Honestly if they act like horizon did not matter in ME3 I'll ignore them....if they keep the BS second guessing up I'll drop them or airlock them. If they own up to their stupidity I'll keep them around, pretty simple.
also, you know what? screw this
Shepard is an N7 (somethig Ash and Kaiden are not), a spectre (again something the VS is not at least until ME3), savior of the citatel, hero of the skillian blitz (can they boast anything like that?), half of t he galaxy owes him, and he just saved the VS's ***.......AGAIN!
so guess what? yes god forbid they are moroinc enough to think he is a common goon working for cerberus without even giving him a chance to explain or see reason (like Tali and Garrus do for instance). If they decide that the situation outweighs what they know about Shepard and warrants them acting like spoiled children then **** them. Honestly if they act like horizon did not matter in ME3 I'll ignore them....if they keep the BS second guessing up I'll drop them or airlock them. If they own up to their stupidity I'll keep them around, pretty simple.
#197
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 02:36
xxSgt_Reed_24xx
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So, basically you want them to worship you b/c you're some huge hero?
#198
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 03:03
crimzontearz
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worship? no
stop second guessing Shepard's judgement and realize he does his job WAY better than they do AND saved their sorry ***es AGAIN? oh yeah
Also yeah...if you met someone who literally saved the world (galaxy) from an alien invasion nearly single handedly and has shepard's credentials you ****ing listen to him...without mention past history together
stop second guessing Shepard's judgement and realize he does his job WAY better than they do AND saved their sorry ***es AGAIN? oh yeah
Also yeah...if you met someone who literally saved the world (galaxy) from an alien invasion nearly single handedly and has shepard's credentials you ****ing listen to him...without mention past history together
#199
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 09:55
Silent X
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Okay, some of you adamantly disagree. That's fine. Like I said, it depend on how you roleplay Shepard. My Shepard is loyal and more than a little sentimental, and has definite guilt issues after Arrival. It's as much a matter of needing to get things off her chest as it is wanting to apologize. She felt really burned after Horizon, but when she calmed down and thought about it, she understood why Kaidan reacted the way he did.
*shrug* Your Shepard may not be like that. I'm not saying anyone else is wrong for roleplaying however they choose to roleplay. I just hope that when Ashley/Kaidan joins back up with us in ME3, we will have a variety of reactions available. Because clearly feelings about them vary a lot, and we should be able to express that in-game.
*shrug* Your Shepard may not be like that. I'm not saying anyone else is wrong for roleplaying however they choose to roleplay. I just hope that when Ashley/Kaidan joins back up with us in ME3, we will have a variety of reactions available. Because clearly feelings about them vary a lot, and we should be able to express that in-game.
#200
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Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 10:29
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xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...
they have a good reason not to join up with you.
Then why would they join with me now? What happened to their good reason? Nothing has changed. The Reapers are still attacking the galaxy - only in full force now. I still believe I did the right thing saving those colonies. I still put humanity's interests above the Alliance's. My Shepard doesn't regret his past actions, nor would he hesitate to work with Cerberus again, should the opportunity arise. He's still a traitor. Why is VS in the squad?
