1476 réponses à ce sujet

[marshalleck]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

So, basically you want them to worship you b/c you're some huge hero?

That's the gist of these "so-and-so stepped on my fragile ego and now they must pay" petty territorialism threads. 

"My Shepard is the hero, ME, not this other character! They must bow and scrape and ingratiate themselves or I will put a gun in their mouth and pull the trigger/push them out the airlock/some other homicide-porn-wish-fulfillment them!"


Really, Shepard's the only one with some 'splainin to do.

Modifié par marshalleck, 10 juillet 2011 - 10:33 .

[Ryzaki]

DragonIroh001 wrote...

If Kaidan/Ash, still shows a lack of trust or acts as worse as they did on Horizon to Shepard I'd say something like this to them.

I'm sorry that I died. I'm sorry that I saved all those colonists on Horizon, including your ungrateful hide from the Collectors. I'm sorry that I did your job better than you did. As with everything else, it's the thought that counts.

Yes that is the *only* apology my Shepard will ever say. 

And no I don't want the VS to kiss my Sheps' feet. They can b*tch at him all they want. As long as my Shep can ignore them/give as good as he gets I'm happy. It would be nice to have someone Shep actually disliked on the ship that *wasn't* overtly aggressive. I could already imagine all my Shep's little digs with the VS's returning quips.  

None of this "oh Kaidan/Ash you were so right! I'm sorry!" crap. I could also do without the "Oh Shepard you were so right! I'm sorry!" from them. Don't start backpeddling now Kaidan/Ash! 

Of course for those players that *do* want their Shep to apologize the option should be there. Just not a forced "you were right all along" moment. I could do without my irritation at the VS being kicked up a few more notches. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 juillet 2011 - 10:40 .

[Chignon]

marshalleck wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

So, basically you want them to worship you b/c you're some huge hero?

That's the gist of these "so-and-so stepped on my fragile ego and now they must pay" petty territorialism threads. 

"My Shepard is the hero, ME, not this other character! They must bow and scrape and ingratiate themselves or I will put a gun in their mouth and pull the trigger/push them out the airlock/some other homicide-porn-wish-fulfillment them!"


Really, Shepard's the only one with some 'splainin to do.

I would just like to say the more posts I read from you the more I like you.

[marshalleck]

 Why thank you! 

[lietk12]

How about for those of us who were aware of Akuze: "I'm sorry I got railroaded into working for Cerberus and also that I never emailed you back."

[ADLegend21]

Chignon wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

So, basically you want them to worship you b/c you're some huge hero?

That's the gist of these "so-and-so stepped on my fragile ego and now they must pay" petty territorialism threads. 

"My Shepard is the hero, ME, not this other character! They must bow and scrape and ingratiate themselves or I will put a gun in their mouth and pull the trigger/push them out the airlock/some other homicide-porn-wish-fulfillment them!"


Really, Shepard's the only one with some 'splainin to do.

I would just like to say the more posts I read from you the more I like you.

agreed.

[Chignon]

marshalleck wrote...

 Why thank you! 

You're most welcome.

lietk12 wrote...

How about for those of us who were aware of Akuze: "I'm sorry I got railroaded into working for Cerberus and also that I never emailed you back."

I'd sure love to see the explanation for the missing "reply" button on the email.

[Rogue Unit]

DragonIroh001 wrote...

If Kaidan/Ash, still shows a lack of trust or acts as worse as they did on Horizon to Shepard I'd say something like this to them.

I'm sorry that I died. I'm sorry that I saved all those colonists on Horizon, including your ungrateful hide from the Collectors. I'm sorry that I did your job better than you did. As with everything else, it's the thought that counts.

But if they're willing to let bygones be bygones, so will I.

Right here, what this guy said.

[robarcool]

Sorry for a being an ignorant. But what is VS that the TC talked about? I mean he refers to Kaidan/Ashley, but what does VS mean? Can anybody enlighten me please?

Modifié par robarcool, 11 juillet 2011 - 02:33 .

[marshalleck]

Virmire Survivor

[robarcool]

Ooooo. Thank you!

[crimzontearz]

marshalleck wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...
So, basically you want them to worship you b/c you're some huge hero?

That's the gist of these "so-and-so stepped on my fragile ego and now they must pay" petty territorialism threads. 


"My Shepard is the hero, ME, not this other character! They must bow and scrape and ingratiate themselves or I will put a gun in their mouth and pull the trigger/push them out the airlock/some other homicide-porn-wish-fulfillment them!"


Really, Shepard's the only one with some 'splainin to do.

lol adorable

sure, let them second guess you. Let them be hypocrites (it's not like they did not committ mutiny with you two years ago because of similar reasons) let your Shepard be a doormat because ZOMG shepard is just like any other person and the VS should totally be weary of him and totally right in disregarding any previous knowledge of Shepard or present circumstances.

I won't. My shepard is a paragon but not a pushover or a saint. They made a choice, as many factors that there could have been ultimately they chose NOT to trust shepard where others (Tali, Liara and Garrus) did even after a first shaky reaction...now they can live with the consequences. It's up to them to win back my trust not vice versa

[Dexi]

marshalleck wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

So, basically you want them to worship you b/c you're some huge hero?

That's the gist of these "so-and-so stepped on my fragile ego and now they must pay" petty territorialism threads. 

"My Shepard is the hero, ME, not this other character! They must bow and scrape and ingratiate themselves or I will put a gun in their mouth and pull the trigger/push them out the airlock/some other homicide-porn-wish-fulfillment them!"


Really, Shepard's the only one with some 'splainin to do.

That's the gist of these VS fanboys... 

I don't want the other chars to bow before my Shepard, I couldn't give a crap if they did that or point me the middle finger. 

But I got no explaining to do to the VS. I did what I had to do and saved the galaxy in the process. 
VS was a stubborn moron on Horizon, and that's it. 
I can give 100 different quotes only from these thread of people saying that them or... their Shepards    didn't understand at first the VS' reaction, but eventually came down with it. See this? Even the fanboys didn't quite get it from the first time.

That's because it was friggin stupid. VS fanboy approved. 

[Made Nightwing]

Would you all kindly cut out the flame war? This thread's point is not to argue about whether the VS or Shepard was right or wrong. I personally think that the VS was completely justified in their doubts. Garrus and Tali went with Shepard, but that's because they're Garrus and Tali. I want unique characters, not ones who just come at my beck and call.

Now can we please get back on topic? Whether you're a fan or not of the VS, all I wanted to do was make you think about the best way for the bond between two soldiers to be restored.

So, here's what I want everyone to do. Go away for a bit and think about a scenario that could help restore this bond. Some of you might just want an apology or a meaningful conversation. Others might want something funny, like Ash teasing you about the enhancements Cerberus gave you. And some might want some full blown over the top heroics from the VS to save your skin.

When you've all done this, come back and post your ideas in a calm and logical manner.

[ZeroDragon980]

Made Nightwing wrote...
 (snip all but this line)
When you've all done this, come back and post your ideas in a calm and logical manner.

Anyway... On to my thought on the matter.

The way I look at is that with all that has happened between the VS and "my" Shepards there should be some sort of restoration of trust, or at the vary least a middle ground that can be gained so that things can move foreward. If you pay attention to the end of the conversation on Horizon after the VS leaves, Shepard did not feel like being there anymore. The inflection of the words indacated that Shepard didn't think it wasn't going to end the way it did, and as a result was upset to a degree.

The reaction of the VS in that conversation is also understandable, if a bit shocking. I only say a bit because the reaction was still understandable. 

Now for ME3 like I mentioned at the beginning of the post there should be something, be it Shepard apologizing, or the VS apologizing or both, or if that is not possible then some way to at least to put it aside until they can talk, the invasion is a good way to allow for middle/neutral ground. I can't really think about any dialog that would work, but some heart felt words would be nice. Paragon would be more diplomatic/kind, Renegade would be more blunt/aggressive.

Like maybe:
Shepard paragon dialog choice "Ash/Kaidan I'm sorry for making you think I was working for Cerberus, but..."
Ashley/Kaidan (interupts Shepard) "I know Shepard, and I'm sorry for reacting the way I did, but..."
(Shepard continues for VS)"But we need to defeat the reapers and we can keep talking more soon" (cue corny Shepard smile) 

Shepard Renegade dialog choice "Look I did what I had to do to save humanity, yes I was using Cerberus resources, but I will not apologize for saving so many people from the Collecters." (Shepard turns and walks away)
Ashley/Kaidan "..." (Closeup of VS' face showing dissapointment, then VS walks away too)

Edit: Ok so I actually thought of something, funny how writing and thinking about it makes the mental juices flow. 
Edit2 for spelling

Modifié par ZeroDragon980, 15 juillet 2011 - 10:20 .

[Comsky159]

If only I could have killed them both

[Bourne Endeavor]

marshalleck wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

So, basically you want them to worship you b/c you're some huge hero?

That's the gist of these "so-and-so stepped on my fragile ego and now they must pay" petty territorialism threads. 

"My Shepard is the hero, ME, not this other character! They must bow and scrape and ingratiate themselves or I will put a gun in their mouth and pull the trigger/push them out the airlock/some other homicide-porn-wish-fulfillment them!"


Really, Shepard's the only one with some 'splainin to do.

For Horizon, seriously? Shepard's dialogue was bad but the VS was utterly incompetent. Frankly, it was so egregious I have to wonder if they are capable of handling affairs while under emotional pressure. If Horizon is any indication, they fail miserable and I would rather put my trust in Garrus or Jacob, neither of whom I have to worry might break into a melodrama whine fest because I've made a decision they dislike. My Renegade Shepards will be none to pleased and basically give a stern warning nothing supersedes the mission. If they attempt to do so otherwise, they will be shot dead. Make it indirect, but the point is made.

While I like the core concept OP, I cringe at your dialogue. Even my most paragon of Shepards would never talk in the way you have illustrate. They seem entirely submissive, bowing like a whipped dog over Udina's complaining, which is ironic given the scene.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 15 juillet 2011 - 12:31 .

[Made Nightwing]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

So, basically you want them to worship you b/c you're some huge hero?

That's the gist of these "so-and-so stepped on my fragile ego and now they must pay" petty territorialism threads. 

"My Shepard is the hero, ME, not this other character! They must bow and scrape and ingratiate themselves or I will put a gun in their mouth and pull the trigger/push them out the airlock/some other homicide-porn-wish-fulfillment them!"


Really, Shepard's the only one with some 'splainin to do.

For Horizon, seriously? Shepard's dialogue was bad but the VS was utterly incompetent. Frankly, it was so egregious I have to wonder if they are capable of handling affairs while under emotional pressure. If Horizon is any indication, they fail miserable and I would rather put my trust in Garrus or Jacob, neither of whom I have to worry might break into a melodrama whine fest because I've made a decision they dislike. My Renegade Shepards will be none to pleased and basically give a stern warning nothing supersedes the mission. If they attempt to do so otherwise, they will be shot dead. Make it indirect, but the point is made.

While I like the core concept OP, I cringe at your dialogue. Even my most paragon of Shepards would never talk in the way you have illustrate. They seem entirely submissive, bowing like a whipped dog over Udina's complaining, which is ironic given the scene.

My Main Shepards tend to speak softly and carry very big sticks. No reason not to be polite to Udina when you're refusing to follow his orders.

BTW, Garrus DID slow a slight fit over the way you blocked his shot with Sidonis, but he comes to forgive you once he's had time to think about it. I just want the VS's thoughts and opinions to be displayed. They did what they believed was the right thing, it's as simple as that really.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Made Nightwing wrote...

My Main Shepards tend to speak softly and carry very big sticks. No reason not to be polite to Udina when you're refusing to follow his orders.

BTW, Garrus DID slow a slight fit over the way you blocked his shot with Sidonis, but he comes to forgive you once he's had time to think about it. I just want the VS's thoughts and opinions to be displayed. They did what they believed was the right thing, it's as simple as that really.

There is a difference between polite and being submissive. We have two full games and even a 100% paragon does not speak like what the OP suggested. Regardless, this is not "your" Shepard anymore than it is mine. The dialogue must be kept as neutral as possible dependent on the class otherwise it may conflict with people's ideas for their Shepard.

Garrus showed frustration only because Shepard was contradicting the objective. It was mild, within his character and did not effect the mission. What the VS did was spew absolute idiocy that no person would ever consider. The essentially blamed Cerberus for Horizon, claimed Shepard is working for them, despite the Collectors being right in plain sight and were then rescued. In essence they said, "Cerberus is using you to attack themselves!" If that was not incompetent enough, their mission was to collect intel on Cerberus... and they see fit to scream "traitor!" when offered to scan a Cerberus war vessel.

Horizon is some of the worst dialogue in BioWare's history for those reasons. It literally makes Ash/Kaidan into complete and utter morons. An emotional reaction is reasonable, so is not wanting to join Cerberus, even for Shepard but christ, just say they have an important mission and not this dribble. There is a reason Horizon is so widely criticized and this was it.

[marshalleck]

Dexi wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

So, basically you want them to worship you b/c you're some huge hero?

That's the gist of these "so-and-so stepped on my fragile ego and now they must pay" petty territorialism threads. 

"My Shepard is the hero, ME, not this other character! They must bow and scrape and ingratiate themselves or I will put a gun in their mouth and pull the trigger/push them out the airlock/some other homicide-porn-wish-fulfillment them!"


Really, Shepard's the only one with some 'splainin to do.

That's the gist of these VS fanboys... 

I don't want the other chars to bow before my Shepard, I couldn't give a crap if they did that or point me the middle finger. 

But I got no explaining to do to the VS. I did what I had to do and saved the galaxy in the process. 
VS was a stubborn moron on Horizon, and that's it. 
I can give 100 different quotes only from these thread of people saying that them or... their Shepards    didn't understand at first the VS' reaction, but eventually came down with it. See this? Even the fanboys didn't quite get it from the first time.

That's because it was friggin stupid. VS fanboy approved. 

I never said the dialogue there was well-written, but I do understand the spirit of what Bioware wanted to accomplish, even if the actual implementation failed miserably. The VS had intel which seemed to show Shepard in a very bad light. Their experiences on Horizon seemed to confirm all they'd heard, rather than dispel it as they'd hoped. They were shocked.

Shepard has yet to explain just what has been going on with him/her since being spaced in the beginning of ME2. I hate to invoke tired old cliches, but as they say, trust is a two-way street. Shepard and the VS both have to come clean. The VS attempted to do that with a ****ty email (this is me arching an eyebrow questioningly at Bioware). Shepard hasn't done anything, and apparently many in this thread feel Shepard doesn't have to do anything because Shepard is the hero, and beyond reproach. This is the juvenile, childish relationship drama daytime television talk shows and teenage relationships are made of.

Modifié par marshalleck, 16 juillet 2011 - 06:28 .

[Darksaberexile]

I'd like for there to be one option where trust was never lost, and Shepard/the VS meet up and play the situation off as Shepard being undercover as a Spectre working for Cerberus while finding out more about structure/resources/etc. Reasoning for this given below:

I'm assuming the VS would know I had spoken to the Council and gotten Spectre status back, and my squad for Horizon (Garrus/Mordin) doesn't exactly speak to a "OMG Cerberus FTW!" stance. Treating Shepard's work to stop the Collectors as an undercover job to also learn more about Cerberus, it would be impossible to actually tell the VS that; I have a bridge to sell anyone that believes Cerberus didn't have a way to find out what went on between Shepard and the VS lol.

The VS could easily trust Shepard and assume there's something going on, but asking that is a good way to blow Shepard's cover. Making it appear Shepard is a traitor to the Alliance, and not expecting/giving him the chance to explain more about what's going on would be a very good decision to make, in those circumstances. And, there's no reason for the VS to join Shepard, since with Garrus present, it would be clear Shepard has some allies he can trust, and Shepard has a pretty good track record of being able to accomplish suicide missions and survive. At the same time, someone has to take care of things such as the Batarian's mirror system, and I for one am not leaving that to Conrad Verner, sorry guys

As for other rp perspectives/dialogues, I'm not sure how I'd like those to play out. But, I do agree with hoping it's not written how Horizon was <_<

[Made Nightwing]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

My Main Shepards tend to speak softly and carry very big sticks. No reason not to be polite to Udina when you're refusing to follow his orders.

BTW, Garrus DID slow a slight fit over the way you blocked his shot with Sidonis, but he comes to forgive you once he's had time to think about it. I just want the VS's thoughts and opinions to be displayed. They did what they believed was the right thing, it's as simple as that really.

There is a difference between polite and being submissive. We have two full games and even a 100% paragon does not speak like what the OP suggested. Regardless, this is not "your" Shepard anymore than it is mine. The dialogue must be kept as neutral as possible dependent on the class otherwise it may conflict with people's ideas for their Shepard.

Garrus showed frustration only because Shepard was contradicting the objective. It was mild, within his character and did not effect the mission. What the VS did was spew absolute idiocy that no person would ever consider. The essentially blamed Cerberus for Horizon, claimed Shepard is working for them, despite the Collectors being right in plain sight and were then rescued. In essence they said, "Cerberus is using you to attack themselves!" If that was not incompetent enough, their mission was to collect intel on Cerberus... and they see fit to scream "traitor!" when offered to scan a Cerberus war vessel.

Horizon is some of the worst dialogue in BioWare's history for those reasons. It literally makes Ash/Kaidan into complete and utter morons. An emotional reaction is reasonable, so is not wanting to join Cerberus, even for Shepard but christ, just say they have an important mission and not this dribble. There is a reason Horizon is so widely criticized and this was it.

On the contrary, Paragon Shepard DOES try to soften his decisions throughout ME1, not so much in ME2. Udina was under attack at the Citadel, Shepard knew that going there immediately was a mistake, so he apologised that he would not come straight away, but promised to bring help. Udina could relay this message to those still fighting. It makes sense for a Paragon option. I can't write for other people's Sheps, and they sure as **** don't want me to put words in their mouths.

My personal theory is that they're mission is to deal with the batarian orbital mirror system. I just wish Bioware had done more than hint at it.

[redbaron76]

Nobady accusess cerberus of being behind missing colonies. VS is sent to investigate possible rumors that cerberus was involved in disapirancess of colonies. Rumors that were started by tim to getr ashley on horizon, so that collectors would attack that planet so that shepard can stop the attack. Cerberus started own rumors so that alliance would suspect them. So malanek999 when ashley accuses you of the treason she is right. She did not accuse cerberus of colonies disapiaring, she only stated that alliance susspected cerberus because of the rumors tim planted.

[Yakko77]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Okay, a lot of people are still pretty sore about the Horizon incident and say they will let the VS remain on the ship instead of taking them on missions. The main reasons for this is that they feel they can no longer trust Kaidan/Ashley after the argument on Horizon.

To fix this, I'd like to see Ashley/Kaidan show that they ARE still loyal to Shepard, and that they're willing to follow him/her into hell if necessary. This doesn't mean that they become afraid to voice counter opinions to Shepard, I don't want their attitude changed, but I would like to see just one bit where they defy illogical orders from the Council or Alliance in order to do what's right with Shepard.

I use the example that people seem to like, that with Ashley/Kaidan's new spectre status, they will challenge Shepard's leadership on the Normandy.

For Ashley:

Ambassador Udina (over holo-imager): Shepard, you need to get the Normandy to the Citadel to help the fleet.
Shepard: We can't hold on to the Citadel, we need to evacuate and fortify a holdable position. Get the fleet out of there.
Udina: I'm giving you an order Shepard.
Shepard: I'm sorry sir, I can't follow that order. I'll bring help as fast as I can, but I won't ride in alone. Goodbye.
Udina: Shepard, don't you...(is cut off)
Ashley: Commander, as an official Council Spectre, I must formally protest your illegal seizure of Alliance property and mutiny against a direct order.
Shepard: Duly noted.
Ashley: Good. Now that that's over with, what's the plan?

For Kaidan (particularly after the arguments about him pulling rank on Shepard)"

Kaidan: Hmm, my orders are to keep you under close surveillance and take the Normandy to Arcturus.
Shepard: Really?
Vega: Sorry ma'am, but Commander Alenko has to follow orders just like the rest of us.
Shepard: Yeah, I gues you're....
Kaidan: But, in all the confusion, it seems I've misplaced my omni-tool, so I can't access those orders. I guess I'll have to act on my own initiative and follow the recommendations given to me by my former commander.
Vega: Ah...boss? What about your orders?
Kaidan: What orders Lieutenant?
Vega: The orders you........what orders? I haven't heard any orders. Guess we'll just have to go with Shepard's recommendation.

Well played!  I like it!  I don't want to remain mad or on bad terms with the VS.  I like your suggestion a lot!