158 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Maybe it will be covered in an expansion. I do think they should move on in DA3.

[Hello There]

Interesting poll results. It seems that only one third would to continue with the mage VS Templar, with a majority third wanting to have a save the world story.

All up, two thirds do not want the Mage vs Templar story as main focus.

Keep voting. More people = better results.

Modifié par Hello There, 22 juillet 2011 - 06:30 .

[Cutlasskiwi]

It's not so much that I hate or dislike save the world stories, I just had a lot of problems with DAO story. I also thought the political struggle in DA2 was refreshing and I actually liked that Hawke couldn't stop everything or make everything alright. It made for a great experience where my Hawke failed and I didn't have to reload.

With that said, as long as we get to see how everything plays out with the mages and templars conflict I'm happy. DA2's ending is to big not to be continued, whether it be an expansion or a new game I don't care.

[wright1978]

Really the results suggest how utterly divided people are on the future direction of DA despite the spin the OP seems to be trying to put on them.

[Huntress]

Hello There wrote...

Interesting poll results. It seems that only one third would to continue with the mage VS Templar, with a majority third wanting to have a save the world story.

All up, two thirds do not want the Mage vs Templar story as main focus.

Keep voting. More people = better results.

Well I think mages and templars is a great conflict, well see how DA3 unfold, right now am waiting for the DLC to continue Hawke adventures, sadly the romances still the same as before, not happy with that, but I'll survive.

[CrimsonZephyr]

Yellow Words wrote...

It's not so much that I hate or dislike save the world stories, I just had a lot of problems with DAO story. I also thought the political struggle in DA2 was refreshing and I actually liked that Hawke couldn't stop everything or make everything alright. It made for a great experience where my Hawke failed and I didn't have to reload. 

Except that Hawke fails far too often. It's no good playing as hero who is literally good for nothing.

[Cutlasskiwi]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Yellow Words wrote...

It's not so much that I hate or dislike save the world stories, I just had a lot of problems with DAO story. I also thought the political struggle in DA2 was refreshing and I actually liked that Hawke couldn't stop everything or make everything alright. It made for a great experience where my Hawke failed and I didn't have to reload. 

Except that Hawke fails far too often. It's no good playing as hero who is literally good for nothing.

My Hawke was good at a lot of things and helped a lot of people. Some things happen that were out of her hands and she couldn't do much about it. Refreshing in my eyes but I can understand why some people might not like it.

[alex90c]

The only thing you can honestly say Hawke is good at, is killing stuff (helped of course by the fact that he can't go five seconds without getting jumped by the Kirkwall parachute division). Move up in to "relevant" things and you'll see how Hawke is completely ineffectual, powerless and ... lame.

[Melca36]

This is why I will NEVER support the Chantry. Having the sisters walking around the poor sections of Kirkwall, asking for donations.

[Cutlasskiwi]

alex90c wrote...

The only thing you can honestly say Hawke is good at, is killing stuff (helped of course by the fact that he can't go five seconds without getting jumped by the Kirkwall parachute division). Move up in to "relevant" things and you'll see how Hawke is completely ineffectual, powerless and ... lame.

How is the Warden any different in that regards? Walking around and killing stuff is pretty much all the Warden do too. And Hawke might not be able to change any of the major things that is happening but the game gives me a chance to have Hawke react to what is happening and role-play the character in a way I couldn't in DAO.

Also, I think that the whole series is lacking when it comes to choices that matters. The dark ritual is a good example were the choice really matters, IMO. The rest of the 'bigger' choices in DAO I found myself not caring much about since we only really see them play out in epilogue cards in the end.  

[Mangie]

Hello There wrote...

Interesting poll results. It seems that only one third would to continue with the mage VS Templar, with a majority third wanting to have a save the world story.

All up, two thirds do not want the Mage vs Templar story as main focus.

Keep voting. More people = better results.

The same can be said for a 'save the world story'.

[TEWR]

Hello There wrote...

Interesting poll results. It seems that only one third would to continue with the mage VS Templar, with a majority third wanting to have a save the world story.

All up, two thirds do not want the Mage vs Templar story as main focus.

Keep voting. More people = better results.

In a way, mage vs. Templar can be seen as a save the world story, because this war is threatening almost all of Thedas.

And wars have casualties. This war has lyrium addicted Templars gone rogue, which means civilian casualties should be expected (and should also be seen).

DA2 may have failed to accurately portray the Mage vs. Templar conflict (which is the idea of Freedom vs. Security, not Good vs. Evil like it ended up) but that doesn't mean the concept is useless. It just means that Bioware needs to really examine many things to make a truly epic story using that concept.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 23 juillet 2011 - 01:08 .

[Pasquale1234]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

DA2 may have failed to accurately portray the Mage vs. Templar conflict (which is the idea of Freedom vs. Security, not Good vs. Evil like it ended up) but that doesn't mean the concept is useless. It just means that Bioware needs to really examine many things to make a truly epic story using that concept.

I'm inclined to disagree here, because I feel that Bioware did a very thorough job of of pounding the point that there is good and evil (or guilt and innocence) on both sides.  By the time we were forced to choose a side, the decision was void of any morality for me, because it had all been reduced to middle gray.  Yes, killing innocent mage children is despicable, but no more or less than blood mages running amok killing innocents.  So that decision was entirely about freedom versus security.

One of the directions it might go from here would be addressing questions of Chantry power versus secular government, i.e., whether the Chantry has the right to round up and essentially imprison mages.  If mages have been roaming about doing healing work and using their skills to help the populace in other ways, there could be a growing groundswell of support for them to retain their freedom, and more citizens might start protecting and hiding them.  Ultimately, it could create a rift in the Chantry, between those who feel the Chantry should control mages and those who feel that mages should be free.  IIRC, a conversation with Cullen reveals that the Templars have already lost some support among the populace.  Thus, the birth of the Dragon Age Reformation.

Whatever happens next with this conflict - I sincerely hope that it either fades back into the background or comes forward for a specific resolution that will then be implemented and maintained - because after having dealt with it in DAO and having that drum pounded and pounded in DA2, I'm more than ready to be done with it.

[CrimsonZephyr]

Yellow Words wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Yellow Words wrote...

It's not so much that I hate or dislike save the world stories, I just had a lot of problems with DAO story. I also thought the political struggle in DA2 was refreshing and I actually liked that Hawke couldn't stop everything or make everything alright. It made for a great experience where my Hawke failed and I didn't have to reload. 

Except that Hawke fails far too often. It's no good playing as hero who is literally good for nothing.

My Hawke was good at a lot of things and helped a lot of people. Some things happen that were out of her hands and she couldn't do much about it. Refreshing in my eyes but I can understand why some people might not like it.

But why should we care about the snooty Orlesian or the idiotic Antivan who pays 50 silver when you return his half-eaten trousers? Why should we care about this festering pustule of a city? Why should we care about our party members? Hawke has no reason to be their friend. His friendship with these characters, and most of his story happens off screen. Because everything happens with or without Hawke, and everything happens in spite of what he does to stop, prevent, or help, I'm left indifferent about this character or this story replete with complete monsters and complete idiots. He's such a useless idiot, it's incredible.

[kroganwarlord58]

If DA3 continues off from the whole Mage vs Templar thing then they should allow you to choose to be eithr a mage(any race) a templar or any of the Qunari ranks and through out the war it really changes how the world is since flemeth mentioned that the world is going to change

[kroganwarlord58]

And the choices you made in the past games should really affect DA3 like if you let the qunari have isabela or if you let the architect live or not and it should confirm if what the chantry says about everything is true or not like if the Maker exists or not and the true origins of the darkspawn

[Cutlasskiwi]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Yellow Words wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Yellow Words wrote...

It's not so much that I hate or dislike save the world stories, I just had a lot of problems with DAO story. I also thought the political struggle in DA2 was refreshing and I actually liked that Hawke couldn't stop everything or make everything alright. It made for a great experience where my Hawke failed and I didn't have to reload. 

Except that Hawke fails far too often. It's no good playing as hero who is literally good for nothing.

My Hawke was good at a lot of things and helped a lot of people. Some things happen that were out of her hands and she couldn't do much about it. Refreshing in my eyes but I can understand why some people might not like it.

But why should we care about the snooty Orlesian or the idiotic Antivan who pays 50 silver when you return his half-eaten trousers? Why should we care about this festering pustule of a city? Why should we care about our party members? Hawke has no reason to be their friend. His friendship with these characters, and most of his story happens off screen. Because everything happens with or without Hawke, and everything happens in spite of what he does to stop, prevent, or help, I'm left indifferent about this character or this story replete with complete monsters and complete idiots. He's such a useless idiot, it's incredible.

You don't have to care about returning stuff like that. Some of my Hawke's did and some did not. DA2 left a lot of things vague and I used that to fill in the blanks for my Hawke, something I lacked in DAO where after Ostagar it rather forced the I<3 the Wardens/Ferelden on you. Then Awakening came and made it even worse. And that made me ask why should my Warden care about the Wardens and Ferelden? Surely not just because she got kidnapped into the order. So I think DA2 handled it better and made my experience playing the game way more enjoyable.

[Pasquale1234]

Yellow Words wrote...

You don't have to care about returning stuff like that. Some of my Hawke's did and some did not. DA2 left a lot of things vague and I used that to fill in the blanks for my Hawke, something I lacked in DAO where after Ostagar it rather forced the I<3 the Wardens/Ferelden on you. Then Awakening came and made it even worse. And that made me ask why should my Warden care about the Wardens and Ferelden? Surely not just because she got kidnapped into the order. So I think DA2 handled it better and made my experience playing the game way more enjoyable.

I understand that the player needed to buy into being a Warden and caring about defeating the blight in order to enjoy DAO, but once you have that buy-in, the rest of the game gives you a definitive purpose and motivation throughout.  Yes, there are some available side quests that are unrelated to that purpose, but they are entirely optional.

One of the reasons I found Hawke so very difficult to role-play is that she had no goals, no purpose, no objectives, no motivations that tied anything together.  I had to find motivation for each and every quest starting with Act 2 - and a lot of the time, found that I was just going through the motions for no reason other than the $ and XP.  Not a very satisfying experience for me.

Modifié par Pasquale1234, 24 juillet 2011 - 03:37 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

Also, think about it this way. Ferelden had some very likeable noblemen, leaders, and warriors along with the usual corrupt and evil ones. Even if you were an elf, these people were not monstrous or hateful toward you, and your actions actually do have a positive effect, leaving the nation much stronger than it was at the start. In Kirkwall, though, the leaders are weak, fanatical, corrupt, or all three. The people are idiotic, crazy, or both. Nothing in this city is really worth fighting for, and through most of the game, you really have to wonder why you even bother with the place.

[megski]

I am tired of politics in real life, there are never any clear answers who is good who is bad, everyone has examples of both, and it just turns nasty. Every time I log into my facebook, there is some one on their political soap box, dogging one side or the other. I'm sick of this crap. And now, I can't even escape it by playing video games! Who's good, who's bad? Hmmmm, lets not give anyone a clear answer, lets give all these people examples of how mages are bad, but yet lets not let Hawke see any of Meredith's madness first-hand. I don't want a story to mess with my head, I don't want a story that is confusing, I want something clear and concise. Loghain was the villain in origins, that was clear. He betrayed you, sold people into slavery, among other things. You got to witness this yourself instead of just hearing rumors. Imgaine what DAO would have been like if you had to make a decision about him when your warden wasn't at Ostagar or didn't visit the alienage. After the arishok was dispatched, no one came knocking on my door, really? Choices have NO consequences in my game. I would rather just shoot people in face in Halo reach, at least THAT makes me feel like I have a purpose. Ughhh, its such a head ache.

[Sidney]

Hello There wrote...

Interesting poll results. It seems that only one third would to continue with the mage VS Templar, with a majority third wanting to have a save the world story.

All up, two thirds do not want the Mage vs Templar story as main focus.

Keep voting. More people = better results.

So we've determined 1/3 of the people need the pre-chewed easy to digest sterotypical story. God that is so sad. I like option 3 actually whihc would be interesting.

Worse, why the heck isn't the mages vs templars a "save the world" scenario? I mean they've started a war that threatens all kinds of havoc and destruction. Not big enough for people?

Modifié par Sidney, 24 juillet 2011 - 04:43 .

[Hello There]

Mangie wrote...

Hello There wrote...

Interesting poll results. It seems that only one third would to continue with the mage VS Templar, with a majority third wanting to have a save the world story.

All up, two thirds do not want the Mage vs Templar story as main focus.

Keep voting. More people = better results.

The same can be said for a 'save the world story'.

Not the point. The point is for something other than Mages VS Templars, which is what DA3 is likely about, given DA2's ending. I would rather a Save the World story, but honestly, as long as its not Ma vs Te, i'll be happy.

[Hello There]

Keep voting on the poll guys, need the results.

[CrimsonZephyr]

Sidney wrote...


Worse, why the heck isn't the mages vs templars a "save the world" scenario? I mean they've started a war that threatens all kinds of havoc and destruction. Not big enough for people?

Perhaps if the setting was "Thedas" instead of "Four neighborhoods of Kirkwall," the war would feel bigger.

[Hello There]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Sidney wrote...


Worse, why the heck isn't the mages vs templars a "save the world" scenario? I mean they've started a war that threatens all kinds of havoc and destruction. Not big enough for people?

Perhaps if the setting was "Thedas" instead of "Four neighborhoods of Kirkwall," the war would feel bigger.

And it wasn't about saving the world, it was at most about saving Kirkwall, and more about the political aspect of mages being free or not, and what Templars are doing. My argument against this is in OP.