221 réponses à ce sujet

[Kavain]

Have to admit, the Mattock is my favorite assault rifle in the game, though I'd say it's fine the way it is now. Powerful indeed, but you don't spread around your bullets the way you do it with a Tempest or a Ravenant.

In short: Don't nerf the Mattock, push SMGs or the other assault rifles.

Note: Am I the only one who hates SMGs in ME2? "Yeah I'm gonna spray 100 bullets at my enemy just to see how I hit everything except him! Ain't that great! What..? I'm supposed to hit him? Damn... Why did I switch to a lousy SMG again..?"

Modifié par Kavain, 07 juillet 2011 - 08:54 .

[Malanek]

It is vastly overpowered. It is that simple. Consider the default DPS of three assault rifles
Mattock - 630
Revenant - 248.5
Avenger - 153
Now obviously this is completely unbalanced. You are not actually going to be able to reach 630 outside of adrenaline rush but you can get about twice as much as the Revenant. Plus you can get headshot after headshot and it is much harder to miss and these numbers assume every bullet hits.

Ultimately they need to decide what they want to do with the revenant. It is pointless having a weapon that is so much more powerful than anything else. The obvious answer is to cut it's fire rate down to maybe a bit lower than half, a lot of people won't notic a significant difference. If they want a weapon that feels good under adrenaline rush they should make a new one which would have reduced damage.

Modifié par Malanek999, 07 juillet 2011 - 08:56 .

[Reapinger]

It's a single player game-- play it how you want to play. No need to take out the gun, if you don't like it then don't use it. Quite a huge leap in logic I just made.

[Welsh Inferno]

Just give the Mattock more recoil and bullet spread. Sorted. Getting headshot after headshot so easily makes the gun overpowered.

[konfeta]

What exactly is your classification of normal? Sameness across the board? Are all guns supposed to be exactly the same? Why? Are all guns made equal? Is a magnum the same as a beretta? Again, you're not talking about balance with regards to what you're saying. Balance doesn't mean a pistol can't be more powerful than another pistol. It means that more powerful pistol has a drawback that the other one doesn't. But as is always the case with nerf calls the topic never focuses on how other weapons are balanced but by how much damage one does above another. This is why I said it's a negative. Even in the OP there's no mention as to what makes the other weapons balanced to give any idea of where they're coming from. Everyone is free to assume that the op is only talking about damage because everyone knows that the mattock is a damage dealer.

All weapons are damage dealers. If a weapon has unequivocally higher damage output over short periods of time it needs to have a relevant weakness. Mattock's low ammunition capacity is about the only weakness it has, and given the abundance of ammunition even on Insanity, it hardly ever comes up considering how hilariously efficient it is per shot.

Perhaps, if Bioware does something like lower ammunition drop abundance for higher difficulties (I want to see this anyway, running out of ammo is kinda hard in ME2 outside sniping), Mattock will be brought back in line on its own. We'll see. But something needs to change - its a weapon with obscene damage output and extremely good accuracy. Using it is basically feels like cheating given how fast it kills things at any range. I like the idea of a semi-automatic rifle, I just don't like it when it basically beats dedicated things like the Vindicator and Revenant at their respective ideal ranges with no real drawbacks.

Modifié par konfeta, 07 juillet 2011 - 09:02 .

[The Elder King]

Arcian wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

It seems clear that the Mattock will be part of ME3's maingame jugding by the two demos. So it is understandable that people wish to make it slightly less godlike in ME3. Because nothing is worse than when a player has to give themself a handicap in order to get any challenge out of a single-player game.

Don't make that assumption blindly. I'm more inclined to believe that you'll only have the Mattock in ME3 if you actually had it in your imported ME2 save.

I hope that Bioware will saysomething about that in future. Though I'm not sure that it will work on import. By this logic, a lot of people will not have the Revenant, the Claymore and the Widow, other than all the other dlc weapons.

Modifié par hhh89, 07 juillet 2011 - 09:03 .

[TexasToast712]

 NO!
*Sten pic here*

[konfeta]

t's a single player game-- play it how you want to play. No need to take out the gun, if you don't like it then don't use it. Quite a huge leap in logic I just made.

It's quite a huge strawman and a leap in not reading you just made.

[TexasToast712]

Dariustwinblade wrote...

Vanguard + Mattock and Geth Shotgun >> Widow + Infiltrator or Claymore + Vanguard >> Soldier + Mattock.

Corrected.:happy:

Modifié par TexasToast712, 07 juillet 2011 - 09:06 .

[Malanek]

Reapinger wrote...

It's a single player game-- play it how you want to play. No need to take out the gun, if you don't like it then don't use it. Quite a huge leap in logic I just made.

It's not a good argument. Firstly, players should not have to self regulate how they play a game. Games which are designed to be a challenge, are supposed to set the rules to give that challenge. Psychologically players like to optomise what they do, imposing self regulation is not particularly fun although in extreme cases it is better than the alternative. Ideally though, players wouldn't have to do this.

Secondly why should players who like the concept of a gameplay aspect be forced to ignore it to get a challenge? I like a variety of weapons and think the game really should have something along the lines of how a Mattock works. It just shouldn't be able to scythe through enemies as if they weren't there.

Thirdly, such weapons pose massive problems to the designers. How do you balance combat when some people may be using a superweapon and other people aren't? The short answer is, you can't.

I don't mind a bit of unbalance in a single player game. I don't have a problem with Adrenaline rush, Tech armour, engineer drone or charge for instance which a lot of people complain about. In gernal I think ME2 had excellent balance apart from the Mattock and Stasis, which are really good ideas, but simply too powerful. Rate of fire on the mattock should be reduced and stasis should not force enemies to fall over at the end.

[TexasToast712]

Instead of nerfing the Mattock all the other Assault Rifles need slight boosts. You nerf the damage on the Mattock then it shoots 16 rounds of harmless bb's and Iam sure nerfing its magazine capacity would be stupid.

[CroGamer002]

Arcian wrote...

Kavain wrote...

"Damn... Why did I switch to a lousy SMG again..?"

Because the Mattock ran out of ammo.

You're playing ME2 very badly if you ran out of ammo with Mattock.

[Malanek]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Instead of nerfing the Mattock all the other Assault Rifles need slight boosts. You nerf the damage on the Mattock then it shoots 16 rounds of harmless bb's and Iam sure nerfing its magazine capacity would be stupid.

And then boost all other weapons and abilities and then boost all enemies. Hey presto, you have effectively nerfed the Mattock. I'm not suggesting you neuter the Mattock. I don't have a problem if it is still the most powerful non-heavy weapon in the game. It just shouldn't be overpowered to such a great extent.

[Someone With Mass]

I can probably put weapon modifications on the Avenger and every other weapon I think is a little sucky, so I'm good.

[Bnol]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Instead of nerfing the Mattock all the other Assault Rifles need slight boosts. You nerf the damage on the Mattock then it shoots 16 rounds of harmless bb's and Iam sure nerfing its magazine capacity would be stupid.

A lot easier to nerf one weapon than boost the rest.  Nerfing does not necessarily have to be drastic.

[TexasToast712]

Malanek999 wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Instead of nerfing the Mattock all the other Assault Rifles need slight boosts. You nerf the damage on the Mattock then it shoots 16 rounds of harmless bb's and Iam sure nerfing its magazine capacity would be stupid.

And then boost all other weapons and abilities and then boost all enemies. Hey presto, you have effectively nerfed the Mattock. I'm not suggesting you neuter the Mattock. I don't have a problem if it is still the most powerful non-heavy weapon in the game. It just shouldn't be overpowered to such a great extent.

BETTER IDEA! Give every enemy in the game a full auto Mattock with increased clip capacity.

[Malanek]

Just out of curiosity, I have heard it is much harder to get a high rate of fire from the mattock on consoles rather than when using a mouse. Are the people who don't think it should be rebalanced playing on consoles? It's possible it might be able to be rebalanced without you noticing anything.

[tobynator89]

reduce the rate of fire or damage per shot. and I'm good.

[ArkkAngel007]

Reapinger wrote...

It's a single player game-- play it how you want to play. No need to take out the gun, if you don't like it then don't use it. Quite a huge leap in logic I just made.

Sorry to call you out, but acting like your superior to the rest and antagonizing doesn't get your opinion taken seriously.  

With that out of the way, if you read the rest of the comments, this isn't the same balancing issue with MP.  It's like if you had infinite Cain ammo.  That would mess up the whole game because there is no balance for other weapons to shine and everything would die in 1-3 hits (bosses excluded), making the game unchallenging and boring.  

Plus you avoided the issue if it should be balanced to work better with the other game mechanics with ME3.  Earlier I mentioned that for ME2, it was overpowered because it was designed to be, but that in ME3 it will be probably toned down.  

Is there probably too much heat being thrown around in a rather mundane topic? Yes.  But too some people it is important that all the elements of a game work as a whole, not only a few things taking the spot light ahead of the rest.

[The Twilight God]

dujh wrote...

it's way op especialy when ...

1. It's DLC intended to be powerful.

2. Don't like? Don't use it.

[ArkkAngel007]

Malanek999 wrote...

Just out of curiosity, I have heard it is much harder to get a high rate of fire from the mattock on consoles rather than when using a mouse. Are the people who don't think it should be rebalanced playing on consoles? It's possible it might be able to be rebalanced without you noticing anything.

Never heard about that before, so now my curiosity is piqued.

[tobynator89]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Just out of curiosity, I have heard it is much harder to get a high rate of fire from the mattock on consoles rather than when using a mouse. Are the people who don't think it should be rebalanced playing on consoles? It's possible it might be able to be rebalanced without you noticing anything.

Never heard about that before, so now my curiosity is piqued.

have it on both 360 and pc. never noticed the difference.

[konfeta]

1. It's DLC intended to be powerful.

2. Don't like? Don't use it.

*sigh*
When I become dictator of the world, I will force people to read the entire thread before responding to it. I don't know how, but it will be done. Even if it means not shooting down that moon sized asteroid on impact trajectory with Earth,

[Praetor Knight]

Malanek999 wrote...

Just out of curiosity, I have heard it is much harder to get a high rate of fire from the mattock on consoles rather than when using a mouse. Are the people who don't think it should be rebalanced playing on consoles? It's possible it might be able to be rebalanced without you noticing anything.

In general, with the responsiveness of the 360 controller at least, there is a way to hold the trigger to really get some nice mileage out of the rifle. And I have no idea how PS3 handles.

So, I can almost empty an entire clip using Hardened AR on average using that technique.

But with moving targets, and how aiming responds; some shots are not going to be on target doing so often.

Too many rounds flying down range, and enemies dropping too quickly, combined with a lower total capacity can drain the weapon, but I have no problem with having that kind of issue with the Mattock. And I prefer using Heightened AR to make each round count anyway.


Therefore, I'd say that if there is any change necessary for the Mattock, then only adjust how it fires under Adrenaline Rush. And maybe have the Mattock fire similar to the Viper or Predator under AR.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 07 juillet 2011 - 09:40 .