I have played ME2 roughly 25-30 times and it has just occurred to me that Cerberus may have done a lot more than just dime out Ashley to the Collectors on Horizon. TIM was aware that Ash was on Horizon, he knew that she was there to investigate Cerberus, and he suspected that the Collectors were interested in members of Shepard's crew. I think that TIM intended to kill two birds with one stone.
The first objective was to allow the Reapers to take the colony on Horizon. But in order to insure a smooth take down, TIM also insured that the colony's defense turrets were taken off line. That's where I think DeLann comes in.
He's the only colonist not caught by surprise by the Collector's swarm. Now it could have just been dumb luck, but I think that there is more to that story. DeLann probably corrupted the defense turret's targeting programs as an unintentional agent for Cerberus. There was likely another agent on Horizon who manipulated DeLann into so doing by pressing his anti-Alliance buttons.
Wanting to make the Alliance look bad, he took the agent's suggestion and corrupted the targeting programs in order to make Ashley and the Alliance look like incompetent fools. I doubt that he ever intended for the colony to be vulnerable, but he never really believed that Horizon was ever truly in any danger. The way DeLann saw it, it was just his private little joke. Every time he saw Ashley pulling her hair out trying to get the targeting systems on line, DeLann could chuckle at her frustration.
While one could argue that the Cerberus agent corrupted the targeting programs himself, it is a poor operative that has direct connections to his objectives. People like that like to use cut outs between themselves and their dirty work so that they can skip if anybody catches wind of something not quite right. Agents who rely on direct connections usually end up dead sooner rather than later. Hence the need for a DeLann.
The up side for TIM was the possibility that Ashley would likely be at the front of the line and prime for pick up by the Collectors because she had no defense against the seeker swarms. Ashley's capture by the Collectors would have worked to TIM's favor because Ashley would be taken out of the picture removing Shepard from a friend/LI and this would bind him more closely to Cerberus. It would also insure that Shepard gave his all to take down the Collectors in seeking payback for his friend/LI. With Ashley gone, Shepard would be none the wiser to TIM's rumors about him and wouldn't ask questions.
If the Collectors had gotten Ashley, which was TIM's second objective, TIM would also be rid of a Cerberus investigator that was proving an annoyance and the disappearance could never be connected to him. It didn't happen the way TIM intended, but it came very close.
Plots, within plots, within plots. TIM is a schemer.
Some Thoughts on DeLann (long)
Débuté par
knightnblu
, juil. 07 2011 04:55
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#2
Posté 07 juillet 2011 - 04:59
Dean_the_Young
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You can see infinite numbers of conspiracies if you don't let pesky things like any lack of supporting evidence get in a way.
I mean, it's obvious Shifty Space Cow is the true mastermind behind the Reapers, after she time-traveled back in time after Shepard ran over her husband.
I mean, it's obvious Shifty Space Cow is the true mastermind behind the Reapers, after she time-traveled back in time after Shepard ran over her husband.
#3
Posté 07 juillet 2011 - 09:07
knightnblu
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Then let's examine the facts shall we?
Per TIM's admission, he suspected that the Collectors were targeting Shepard and
his crew. TIM knew that Williams was on Horizon and also knew that she was setting up defensive turrets as part of an Alliance's outreach program. TIM leaked Ashley Williams' location to entice the Collectors to target Horizon.
As TIM was aware that Williams was on Horizon, he made sure the Collectors knew she was there, he would also have made sure that they would stick around long enough for Shepard to get there. The only way to do that is to disable the defenses insuring that the Collectors could breeze right in without a fight. Otherwise, the Collectors would have found Horizon a hard target and looked elsewhere. The sabotage couldn't be too obvious or it would be clear that there were potential hostiles already on Horizon and it is also very likely that Williams would have placed the blame squarely on Cerberus given her mission and suspicions.
It also shouldn't be too easy to fix or the sabotage would have been fixed in short order leading to the Collectors to abort their mission secondary to active defenses. Software corruption is perfect given that Williams is not heavily tech. DeLann on the other hand, is tech savvy and hostile to the Alliance by his own admission. In fact, Williams complains to Lilith that she is surprised that the communications failure wasn't blamed on her was well. This indicates that the failure of the defense turrets was. Lilith responds that "...people out here don't like the Alliance." This is also one of the likely reasons that TIM chose Horizon. As such, it insures that Williams will be kept off balance by the native hostility as the natives criticized, obstructed, and made her feel about as welcome as a cigarette machine in a cancer ward.
Once the turrets came online, the Collectors didn't stick around. Destroying the turrets was not an option given that they required living humans to make a new Reaper. Could the Collectors bombard the settlement from space and annihilate all defenses down there? Sure they could, but they didn't and such an attack would lead to heavy casualties. Instead, they just departed. TIM would not have been aware of why the Collectors required living humans, but he did know that the Collectors were working for the Reapers and favored living subjects. Therefore, colonies with active defenses were useless to him.
TIM has no qualms about sacrificing others in order to achieve his objectives. I
submit Overlord, the experiments on the Rachni, Husks, and Thorian Creepers as evidence of this. Also, the codex says that Cerberus has assassinated unfavorable politicians in order to install others who are more favorable to Cerberus. What's more, the horrors inflicted on Jack and the Children on Pragia would have been forgiven if the program had produced results. TIM admitted that he would have allowed Archer's brother to be used as a guinea pig under this reasoning because Archer had succeeded in his objective. Therefore the assessment by the Pragia team that all would be forgiven if they succeeded was accurate. This means that TIM is not shy about shedding blood or inflicting horrors on others, even children.
TIM was aware that the Collector swarms prevented anyone from escaping the
collectors. That is why he provided Mordin Solus to research methods of avoiding the swarms and protecting his four billion credit investment. Ashley Williams did not have access to this technology and would therefore be susceptible to being taken by the Collectors.
TIM insured that Ashley Williams was sent to Horizon by leaking rumors about Shepard working for Cerberus. Williams admits this to Shepard and reveals that she was sent to Horizon in order to verify the rumors and to investigate Cerberus. This proves that TIM had a plan and was working it long before Shepard ever became aware of Horizon. In fact, this also proves that TIM selected Horizon as the next Collector target. TIM therefore had to place an operative on Horizon to monitor Williams and to discretely disable the colony defenses in order to set the stage for the Collector's arrival.
Had the colony defenses been active at the time of the Collector raid, the Collectors would have been under fire during their approach. The fact that they did not disable the turrets and fled when fired upon instead of completing their mission indicates that the Collectors would have aborted the mission on Horizon if they encountered active defenses. It is not unreasonable to believe that TIM knew that this would occur given that there were no signs of battle at the previous collection sites suggesting that the Collectors only selected soft targets. Therefore, TIM would have insured that Horizon was a soft target and that means disabling the turrets is a priority.
Williams was part of the team that took down several Cerberus initiatives costing
TIM time, money, and resources. She was also investigating Cerberus activities
and with her tenacious nature, zeal in perfection, and her hatred of Cerberus all likely combined to make her a thorn in TIM's side. This is predicated upon her exemplary record as a marine and by Shepard's observations about how hard she pushes herself to excel in the discharge of her duties. Williams is an excellent combat soldier and she doesn't shy away from fights and it is therefore likely that she was getting results in her investigation of Cerberus. Therefore, Horizon opened a very real possibility to be rid of her permanently, thus conveniently disposing of an annoying problem.
From these facts we can determine that TIM is calculating, cold, and methodical. All that one need do is connect the dots and the events on Horizon come into a sharp, clear focus. My assertions as to motives may be circumstantial, but the facts speak for themselves. It is no great stretch as you so blithely suggest.
As a personal aside Dean-the-young, do you double as the Turian Councilor on the Citadel?
Per TIM's admission, he suspected that the Collectors were targeting Shepard and
his crew. TIM knew that Williams was on Horizon and also knew that she was setting up defensive turrets as part of an Alliance's outreach program. TIM leaked Ashley Williams' location to entice the Collectors to target Horizon.
As TIM was aware that Williams was on Horizon, he made sure the Collectors knew she was there, he would also have made sure that they would stick around long enough for Shepard to get there. The only way to do that is to disable the defenses insuring that the Collectors could breeze right in without a fight. Otherwise, the Collectors would have found Horizon a hard target and looked elsewhere. The sabotage couldn't be too obvious or it would be clear that there were potential hostiles already on Horizon and it is also very likely that Williams would have placed the blame squarely on Cerberus given her mission and suspicions.
It also shouldn't be too easy to fix or the sabotage would have been fixed in short order leading to the Collectors to abort their mission secondary to active defenses. Software corruption is perfect given that Williams is not heavily tech. DeLann on the other hand, is tech savvy and hostile to the Alliance by his own admission. In fact, Williams complains to Lilith that she is surprised that the communications failure wasn't blamed on her was well. This indicates that the failure of the defense turrets was. Lilith responds that "...people out here don't like the Alliance." This is also one of the likely reasons that TIM chose Horizon. As such, it insures that Williams will be kept off balance by the native hostility as the natives criticized, obstructed, and made her feel about as welcome as a cigarette machine in a cancer ward.
Once the turrets came online, the Collectors didn't stick around. Destroying the turrets was not an option given that they required living humans to make a new Reaper. Could the Collectors bombard the settlement from space and annihilate all defenses down there? Sure they could, but they didn't and such an attack would lead to heavy casualties. Instead, they just departed. TIM would not have been aware of why the Collectors required living humans, but he did know that the Collectors were working for the Reapers and favored living subjects. Therefore, colonies with active defenses were useless to him.
TIM has no qualms about sacrificing others in order to achieve his objectives. I
submit Overlord, the experiments on the Rachni, Husks, and Thorian Creepers as evidence of this. Also, the codex says that Cerberus has assassinated unfavorable politicians in order to install others who are more favorable to Cerberus. What's more, the horrors inflicted on Jack and the Children on Pragia would have been forgiven if the program had produced results. TIM admitted that he would have allowed Archer's brother to be used as a guinea pig under this reasoning because Archer had succeeded in his objective. Therefore the assessment by the Pragia team that all would be forgiven if they succeeded was accurate. This means that TIM is not shy about shedding blood or inflicting horrors on others, even children.
TIM was aware that the Collector swarms prevented anyone from escaping the
collectors. That is why he provided Mordin Solus to research methods of avoiding the swarms and protecting his four billion credit investment. Ashley Williams did not have access to this technology and would therefore be susceptible to being taken by the Collectors.
TIM insured that Ashley Williams was sent to Horizon by leaking rumors about Shepard working for Cerberus. Williams admits this to Shepard and reveals that she was sent to Horizon in order to verify the rumors and to investigate Cerberus. This proves that TIM had a plan and was working it long before Shepard ever became aware of Horizon. In fact, this also proves that TIM selected Horizon as the next Collector target. TIM therefore had to place an operative on Horizon to monitor Williams and to discretely disable the colony defenses in order to set the stage for the Collector's arrival.
Had the colony defenses been active at the time of the Collector raid, the Collectors would have been under fire during their approach. The fact that they did not disable the turrets and fled when fired upon instead of completing their mission indicates that the Collectors would have aborted the mission on Horizon if they encountered active defenses. It is not unreasonable to believe that TIM knew that this would occur given that there were no signs of battle at the previous collection sites suggesting that the Collectors only selected soft targets. Therefore, TIM would have insured that Horizon was a soft target and that means disabling the turrets is a priority.
Williams was part of the team that took down several Cerberus initiatives costing
TIM time, money, and resources. She was also investigating Cerberus activities
and with her tenacious nature, zeal in perfection, and her hatred of Cerberus all likely combined to make her a thorn in TIM's side. This is predicated upon her exemplary record as a marine and by Shepard's observations about how hard she pushes herself to excel in the discharge of her duties. Williams is an excellent combat soldier and she doesn't shy away from fights and it is therefore likely that she was getting results in her investigation of Cerberus. Therefore, Horizon opened a very real possibility to be rid of her permanently, thus conveniently disposing of an annoying problem.
From these facts we can determine that TIM is calculating, cold, and methodical. All that one need do is connect the dots and the events on Horizon come into a sharp, clear focus. My assertions as to motives may be circumstantial, but the facts speak for themselves. It is no great stretch as you so blithely suggest.
As a personal aside Dean-the-young, do you double as the Turian Councilor on the Citadel?
#4
Posté 07 juillet 2011 - 11:24
KevShep
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It would not suprise me if kaiden/ashley did find intel about cerberus involvement with the reapers since Casey Hudson says that you have to spend part of ME3 finding out why cerberus is working for the reapers. Since Kaiden/Ashley is on your team in ME3 then this might be the way you start finding out why cerberus is with the reapers because they did infact find something and thats where the part of finding out why picks up. This also might be the reason Kaiden/Ashley do not join you in horizon (Kaiden/Ashley states that cerberus maybe behind it but they dont have enough evidance at the time).
Modifié par KevShep, 07 juillet 2011 - 11:25 .
#5
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 09:49
Confused-Shepard
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I completely agree with you because it gives me a good excuse to eviscerate that son of a b*** Delan!
#6
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 07:32
SandTrout
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The evidence is circumstantial, at best, but it did seem odd to me, even the first time through, that they were having so much trouble with the targeting software while EDI was able to fix the problem in a matter of seconds. Granted, EDI is an awesomely powerful AI, but I would think that if the problem was really just software, then a reformat and installation of the system would solve the problem. I was thinking sabotage from the beginning.
However, it is just as likely that the Collectors sent a covert unit to Horizon to sabotage defenses as TIM having a Cerberus agent do it. Granted, I would not be surprised to find out that TIM did give the orders, as that would make Horizon better bait for the Collectors, but there isn't a whole lot of evidence to support the theory.
However, it is just as likely that the Collectors sent a covert unit to Horizon to sabotage defenses as TIM having a Cerberus agent do it. Granted, I would not be surprised to find out that TIM did give the orders, as that would make Horizon better bait for the Collectors, but there isn't a whole lot of evidence to support the theory.
#7
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 10:27
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
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I never knew ZuluDFA has a twin brother. You guys should reaaaaally hang out.
#8
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 10:54
Zall
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That's a nice theory. A far-fetched one, but I like it anywayknightnblu wrote...
Ashley's capture by the Collectors would have worked to TIM's favor because Ashley would be taken out of the picture removing Shepard from a friend/LI and this would bind him more closely to Cerberus. It would also insure that Shepard gave his all to take down the Collectors in seeking payback for his friend/LI.
While we don't have any proof, it's something TIM would be clearly capable of.Sometimes the silly speculations without proof are right. I remember some random joke on the HP boards, that Harry is gonna call his son Serverus Albus after he finds out Snape is innocent after all. Two months later, Deathly Hollows comes out and guess what...iOnlySignIn wrote...
I never knew ZuluDFA has a twin brother. You guys should reaaaaally hang out.
Compared to that one, this idea sounds completely believeable.
Modifié par Zall, 09 juillet 2011 - 11:03 .
