85 réponses à ce sujet

[The Elder King]

DTKT wrote...

While it is true that DA and ME are both handled by different teams, upper management is still the same for both. In the case of DAII, that means that there was a conscious decision to release a rushed product. They knew about the possible negative reception to the release.

Keeping that in mind, what is stopping them from releasing ME3 when it's clearly not ready? What motivated them to introduce Kinect? Was the delay just to cram Kinect in there?

So yeah, while the design teams are different, they can repeat the same management mistakes.

Even if it was for Kinect, a part of the team could work on it and the other people could work on giving us a better product. I doubt that every person on ME team will be involved in the Kinect implementation.

[Lucifer_Cheney]

Il Divo wrote...

Lucifer_Cheney wrote...

People keep saying its different teams making different games and while that is true, both teams are no doubt adhering to BW's business strategy of dum...er streamlining its games to appeal to a wider audience that don't like the more traditional rpg. DA2 was probably more influenced by ME2 in that regard.

I personally would take Mass Effect 2's fluid gameplay over Mass Effect's awkward mechanics any day. Unlike Dragon Age (which began as a full blown rpg), Mass Effect was a hybrid from the start, but didn't execute either the rpg/tps elements to my satisfaction. In that sense, I consider the redesign to be a vast improvement.

DA:O's combat system was fine, it simply needed to be sped up a bit.

No argument there, which is one reason I enjoy the ME games. The number one problem I had with ME1 was their system (or lack thereof) regarding inventory. It took much longer than necessary to access certain weapons and armor mods, which had no tangible or visual affect IMO. However, I didn't feel that was the case with DA:O, which is why I had a big problem with the "streamlining" they did with DA2.

Modifié par Lucifer_Cheney, 07 juillet 2011 - 10:17 .

[InvaderErl]

Il Divo wrote...


I personally would take Mass Effect 2's fluid gameplay over Mass Effect's awkward mechanics any day. Unlike Dragon Age (which began as a full blown rpg), Mass Effect was a hybrid from the start, but didn't execute either the rpg/tps elements to my satisfaction. In that sense, I consider the redesign to be a vast improvement.

DA:O's combat system was fine, it simply needed to be sped up a bit.

Completely agree with you there.

[TheMakoMaster]

i've always thought DA2's polarized reception (mostly south in my opinion) would benefit the Mass Effect series. Not only would the ME team want to build on the improvements that occurred between ME games 1 and 2, but the ME devs probably now feel a need to make up for the subpar nature of the DA2 project...to restore the faith of the biofan core.

[DTKT]

They haven't really revealed the extent of the Kinect implementation. New movement based commands could very well be used.

[Hatchetman77]

KingNothing125 wrote...

DA2 did many things wrong, but it also did some things right. I hope BioWare has learned from both.

^ This.
 

Progressive_Stupidity1 wrote...

I became far more optimistic towards ME3 when it was announced that the release date was being set back.

 
And This.


I think the most important lesson comming out of DA2 is that if you're going to do something radically different from the first game make sure you give your devs and writers time to make sure it's done right. 

ME3 will be fine and I have seen nothing to convince me otherwise.  Keep in mind this is someone who predicted that DA2 would fail miserably prior to it being launched based on the info we had about it and I predict TOR will fail miserably as well, so I'm usually pretty pesimistic about these things.  However to be pesimestic I need to hear something about the game I don't like and so far ME3 is looking pretty sweet.

Modifié par Hatchetman77, 07 juillet 2011 - 10:41 .

[IndigoWolfe]

matt-bassist wrote...

True, but with them continually talking about continuing the Mass Effect franchise, I doubt they'd take such a risk again. Right?

Because God forbid a game company take risks now and again.

[Luigitornado]

Who's to blame for DA2...Bioware or EA?

[Gibb_Shepard]

Luigitornado wrote...

Who's to blame for DA2...Bioware or EA?

EA. They rushed the game out the door. Even though most of the gameplay mechanics would've been mostly the same at the core, the quality of the story, dialogue and companions would've been better if more time was put into the game.

[MonkeyKaboom]

Not worried. ME is a completely different world than DA. I don't care about different dev teams. The atmosphere itself is different. Things that sucked hard in DA2 are the strengths in ME2. And honestly DA2 wasn't THAT bad. The combat system is much improved. Its not just sped up. In DA2 one mage can't just go in and chain combo spells (ie. SotC). You actually had to utilize different characters to chain effects (if you wanted the most out of the game anyways). The short comings of DA2 was that it wasn't necessary enough, it should have been vital to do so. And that they cut too much out. If they had DA2 combat mechanics with DA:O class progression then it would have been a perfect middle ground. Now the story and the recycled maps...thats a whole different story. But the combat gameplay was a step in the right direction, not perfect, but better.

Modifié par MonkeyKaboom, 07 juillet 2011 - 11:53 .

[Gatt9]

matt-bassist wrote...

I'm not sure how successful this Legacy expansion is going to be (I probably won't buy it) but you can be damn sure that Bioware has taken note and Mass Effect 3 will not make the same mistakes. With DA:O they spent years creating an absolutely amazing world, rich with detail and culture, and in less than a year they turned what could've been a really successful IP into dust. It makes me sad to think about it, but it gives me hope because there is no damn way they will ruin their ME franchise as well.

So cry for Thedas, but feel good knowing the galaxy of Mass Effect will be okay.

You're putting alot of faith into something when the evidence makes it doubtful.

Laidlaw,  and other DA2 teammembers,  didn't accept the problems with DA2.  They blamed it on everyone else.  First it was 4chan's fault,  then it was those nasty RPG players who just won't give up RPG mechanics and accept that Laidlaw has decreed RPG's are now different because he says so.

He blamed everyone else but their team,  and his interviews kept insinuating that I'm wrong for liking RPG mechanics.

Then we got the interviews about a "Skip combat button!",  and "Add icons to everything in a dialogue wheel so you don't have to read!".  They didn't get it,  they learned nothing.

As far as ME 3 goes,  they lifted the plot from the second half of DAO,  they made a huge E3 speech about how adding Grenades to a TPS was so great,  they add melee weapons to a game where the whole concept is ridiculous (Apparently the old saying of "Knife to a gun fight" doesn't mean much there),  they're wasting time and resources on a Kinect implementation so you can read the screen outloud,  despite the fact that Shepherd's then going to say whatever he wants anyways.  Never mind the fact that the dialogue wheel never actually says what the line of dialouge's going to be.  Finally,  from what I'm reading here,  Morality is now something you put points in to raise?  If so,  it'll hands down be the most idiotic feature in a game ever,  morality is a personality trait,  not a skill.  What's next?  I can put points into my mood? 

There's some serious warning signs here.

[luzburg]

i dont think Da2 is that bad, it wast great, okay story but great story telling made it interesting.
i bent my brain from thinking it was a rpg game to a adventure game instead. i only madening thing was the crappy nvidia drivers

as for me3 they started developing before the release of me2 and have just as much time betwen me2 and me3 as they had form me1 to me2. around 2years and 2-3 months i belive. so i think the qualety they had in former me games will be in me3 and since they use feedback from fans they know not what to do. for the story im a little conserned that Drew Karpyshyn one of the writhers of the former games isnt involved in me3 since its the story that im realy intrested in these games,

and jack wall and the gang ist making the music. i think the new guy is fully capable tough

Modifié par luzburg, 08 juillet 2011 - 12:30 .

[TheCrakFox]

I think DA2 probably suffered because of ME3, not the other way around. It was rushed out while BioWare were focused on TOR and ME3, probably the 2 biggest projects they've ever undertaken. ME3 won't suffer the same fate.

[luzburg]

TheCrakFox wrote...

I think DA2 probably suffered because of ME3, not the other way around. It was rushed out while BioWare were focused on TOR and ME3, probably the 2 biggest projects they've ever undertaken. ME3 won't suffer the same fate.

exactly, in both Da games i got the impression that it a side projecet due that the qualety in digial acing, grafics and so on. maybe just to finace bigger games like the ME series and TOR.    maybe they riped us off so we get a better product later

[Il Divo]

luzburg wrote...

exactly, in both Da games i got the impression that it a side projecet due that the qualety in digial acing, grafics and so on. maybe just to finace bigger games like the ME series and TOR.    maybe they riped us off so we get a better product later

Uhh, Origins wasn't really a side project. The game had been in development since at least Jade Empire.

[Stardusk78]

Gatt9 wrote...

matt-bassist wrote...

I'm not sure how successful this Legacy expansion is going to be (I probably won't buy it) but you can be damn sure that Bioware has taken note and Mass Effect 3 will not make the same mistakes. With DA:O they spent years creating an absolutely amazing world, rich with detail and culture, and in less than a year they turned what could've been a really successful IP into dust. It makes me sad to think about it, but it gives me hope because there is no damn way they will ruin their ME franchise as well.

So cry for Thedas, but feel good knowing the galaxy of Mass Effect will be okay.

You're putting alot of faith into something when the evidence makes it doubtful.

Laidlaw,  and other DA2 teammembers,  didn't accept the problems with DA2.  They blamed it on everyone else.  First it was 4chan's fault,  then it was those nasty RPG players who just won't give up RPG mechanics and accept that Laidlaw has decreed RPG's are now different because he says so.

He blamed everyone else but their team,  and his interviews kept insinuating that I'm wrong for liking RPG mechanics.

Then we got the interviews about a "Skip combat button!",  and "Add icons to everything in a dialogue wheel so you don't have to read!".  They didn't get it,  they learned nothing.

As far as ME 3 goes,  they lifted the plot from the second half of DAO,  they made a huge E3 speech about how adding Grenades to a TPS was so great,  they add melee weapons to a game where the whole concept is ridiculous (Apparently the old saying of "Knife to a gun fight" doesn't mean much there),  they're wasting time and resources on a Kinect implementation so you can read the screen outloud,  despite the fact that Shepherd's then going to say whatever he wants anyways.  Never mind the fact that the dialogue wheel never actually says what the line of dialouge's going to be.  Finally,  from what I'm reading here,  Morality is now something you put points in to raise?  If so,  it'll hands down be the most idiotic feature in a game ever,  morality is a personality trait,  not a skill.  What's next?  I can put points into my mood? 

There's There're some serious warning signs here.

[iggy4566]

Why are y'all comparing two very different games?

[luzburg]

Il Divo wrote...

luzburg wrote...

exactly, in both Da games i got the impression that it a side projecet due that the qualety in digial acing, grafics and so on. maybe just to finace bigger games like the ME series and TOR.    maybe they riped us off so we get a better product later

Uhh, Origins wasn't really a side project. The game had been in development since at least Jade Empire.

okay i didnt know that, still i got the impression that it was. it may be that bioware puts more efford in ME series and for the love of god that they do.

[ArcanistLibram]

The Mass Effect team has always been better than the Dragon Age team and while the DA team was getting lazier, the ME team put a lot of effort into making the games a lot more fun. People can **** about "dumbing down", but Mass Effect 1 was a 100% pure undiluted third person shooter. Mass Effect 2 made the skills a lot more useful, it added a lot of gameplay diversity that Mass Effect 1 did not have and it really improved the dialogues with the interrupts. The only thing it dropped the ball on was weapon diversity and it looks like they fixed that.

Compare to Dragon Age II, which dropped the ball on everything except the personality tracking. And despite what all the fanboys say, Dragon Age: Origins wasn't that great a game either.

[KainrycKarr]

Gatt9 wrote...

matt-bassist wrote...

I'm not sure how successful this Legacy expansion is going to be (I probably won't buy it) but you can be damn sure that Bioware has taken note and Mass Effect 3 will not make the same mistakes. With DA:O they spent years creating an absolutely amazing world, rich with detail and culture, and in less than a year they turned what could've been a really successful IP into dust. It makes me sad to think about it, but it gives me hope because there is no damn way they will ruin their ME franchise as well.

So cry for Thedas, but feel good knowing the galaxy of Mass Effect will be okay.

You're putting alot of faith into something when the evidence makes it doubtful.

Laidlaw,  and other DA2 teammembers,  didn't accept the problems with DA2.  They blamed it on everyone else.  First it was 4chan's fault,  then it was those nasty RPG players who just won't give up RPG mechanics and accept that Laidlaw has decreed RPG's are now different because he says so.

He blamed everyone else but their team,  and his interviews kept insinuating that I'm wrong for liking RPG mechanics.

Then we got the interviews about a "Skip combat button!",  and "Add icons to everything in a dialogue wheel so you don't have to read!".  They didn't get it,  they learned nothing.

As far as ME 3 goes,  they lifted the plot from the second half of DAO,  they made a huge E3 speech about how adding Grenades to a TPS was so great,  they add melee weapons to a game where the whole concept is ridiculous (Apparently the old saying of "Knife to a gun fight" doesn't mean much there),  they're wasting time and resources on a Kinect implementation so you can read the screen outloud,  despite the fact that Shepherd's then going to say whatever he wants anyways.  Never mind the fact that the dialogue wheel never actually says what the line of dialouge's going to be.  Finally,  from what I'm reading here,  Morality is now something you put points in to raise?  If so,  it'll hands down be the most idiotic feature in a game ever,  morality is a personality trait,  not a skill.  What's next?  I can put points into my mood? 

There's some serious warning signs here.

ME3 is going to be the worst game ever, and we should all cancel our pre-orders and boycott all Bioware and EA games.

[luzburg]

still it its casey thats running the show and he know what he wants. and we can expect some of the same awsomnes that me1&2 had. The game is going to have rpg elements in some capacity and exploration like me2. combat hasnt changet that much only refined and with som extra stuff like the blade and grenades and.

its the decition based, gutwrenching story that matters in my eyes.
i heard or read someplace that the ME series is not a rpg or a shoter it is a "Space opera"

Modifié par luzburg, 08 juillet 2011 - 12:55 .

[KainrycKarr]

It is also a popsicle.

[luzburg]

okay:huh:

[Leoism]

DA:O was almost perfect... Gfx + Speed increase on fighting was all it really needed. DA2 - Some absolutely shocking errors in judgement's - No Weather system? i mean WTF !! But the Voice changing system depending on which path you choose is actually really cool, probably 1 of the most significant changes for me personally. Even tho the game wasn't perfect by any means, I will still buy the DLC's etc and complete it multiple times because i want saves for the next DA which will be out in like 12-16 months? . And as for ME3 I've never been worried it would be anything like DA2 as it's different teams and ME team has done a stellar job every time so far by progressing in the right way in almost every aspect of the game.