63 réponses à ce sujet

[Pathforge]

@ Stewie1974

And THAT good sir...is exactly the problem.   Leave Bioware alone to do what they do best.  This is assuming of course that Bioware HAD a deadline for it because of pressure from EA (which I'd like to think is the case considering their track record).

Perhaps EA thought "HEY Awakening was a good idea, lets make SEQUELS like an expansion from here on to save time and still charge the full price because people will pay regardless!".  EA is probably looking at Bioware like Scrooge Mcduck sees his money vault.  Thing is though, if they keep it up, eventually their EA brand won't mean much other than "Oh EA?  Oh they publish games" vs Blizzard and their track record for breaking records because of the quality behind a seemingly simple game. 

Modifié par Pathforge, 12 juillet 2011 - 02:55 .

[stewie1974]

unfortunately that's the way the world works.

EA is due to make at least a billion this year if the wiki source is accurate...

It's not just biowares third party distrubuter... Bioware is a subsidary of EA, and as such can't really do anything to rebel against EA.

The IP is owned totally by EA.

News is though DA2 didn't do as well in the long term sales as EA chair had hoped. So excpet DA3 to be better in order to win back the fans.

Personally, I hope nobody takes offense, I -like- DA2....I prefer origins of course, but at the end of the day I pretty much followed the development log, played the demo and clearly had an idea of what the game was going to be when I preordered it.

We knew it was going to be a voiced protaginist with mass effect 2 type dialouge, the combat in the demo was pretty much was in the game, we also knew the narrative was going to be varric telling the story...

All the disapointments many fans cite were already out of the box before the game went to preorder. I bought it despite these things, because I knew it would kill a few hours and would at least show me something. I also looked at it very much as a -middle- chapter.

Word is bioware are -already- looking for 3D artists for DA3, which considering all the DLC they have to churn out, probablly means they are starting the DA3 process a lot earlier than expected...

Which is -good- news as it might mean a little more dev time.... we've got Mass Effect 3, DA2 dlc, ME3 dlc to keep us going till at least 2013, Heck if they give DA2 an Awakenings -type- of DLC, ((length not content)) we might just be held to 2014.

It really depends on what you want.

I don't know if not releasing addons would keep you interested enough in the franchise to wait 4 years for a sequel.

[Pathforge]

@ Stewie1974

The whole point of this post for the most part, was to point out the great points you brought up. If of course had my own way of trying to make the point.

Also - I knew EXACTLY what the basis behind DAII would be. I loved ME 1 & 2 for Shepard. Squadmates were great of course, but for me it was Shepard that made the game so compelling. I read all about DAII being focused on the life of a single character and that's just awsome...if done correctly like the ME series. It had to do with a sequel feeling like it's a shadow of what it could have been and players dropping full retail payment toward something that wasn't worth full retail.

About DA3 - Yeah I read an article a while back where it was pointed out that Bioware was looking for more environment artists and such. And I hope you're right. I don't mind waiting years for a sequel at all. What's the rush? I'd rather get a quality product. EA sees $$ signs of course and seemingly to them the quicker they can simply pump things out, the better. Not a good decsion from a business standpoint for a long term goal though.

Modifié par Pathforge, 12 juillet 2011 - 04:33 .

[t0mm06]

Pathforge wrote...

OBLIVION is another amazing example of what I'm talking about.  You can check out screen shots for it.  I'm not trying to push other games from competitors.  That's why I was trying to stick to Balder's Gate.

Oblivion does everything I'm talking about.  Great graphics, great story, good voice acting, open environments and amazing weather effects.  So it IS possible.    Now Bioware has to contend with Skyrim and if they keep up with this DAII model business...Skyrim is going to be the better game even if DAIII comes out 10yrs from now. 

Sorry but i have to dissagree here, now lets compare DAO to Oblivion as they 're more closely related time wise.

The gaphics were aweful! i hated how the people looked, and i felt it all looked years older then it should have,  the environments were ok but i didnt like them really.

http://arthur1977.fi...artastrophe.jpg

compared with

http://imageshack.us...2006copy0u.gif/


sorry but no there is more then 2-3 years difference in these graphics.

And yes the story might have been better in oblivion, but it was so much better executed in DAO, in oblivion i had no idea what was going on half the time.

And no, i cannot agree with the voice acting i hated it, and felt it was ****** poor comming from patrick stewart!,but most of the voice acting in DAO was very well done.

my main point here is, (my opinion) that oblivion wasnt a great game, but also that the only trump card i think it has over DAO is that it is open world, i think it tried to do everything you couldd want to do (which is a very very good idea and concept) but feel that because it tried to do so much it didnt really do any single thing amazingly.

i do hope skyrim does well and is a good game, i am not holding my breath. But that i think the DA story and lore has much mroe to offer then the eldar scrolls do

[Sajuro]

To put in my two cents once more, I like the map style of traveling in Dragon Age better than the open world of the Elder Scrolls since I know from experience that before I even completed the first quest in Morrowind I had ascended to the highest ranks of House Haolu, the Thieve's Guild, and the Fighter's Guild, in addition to slaughtering entirte plantations of slave holders before I stumbled upon the place where I was supposed to do the first quest (Not to mention made an attempt on the life of a god).
In Dragon Age, we knew where we were supposed to go so we could get on with the well done quests and move onto the next one.

[Augustei]

Pathforge wrote...
*Snip*

I read down to the point where you started talking about how good blizzard is... then I tuned out, the sellouts a blizzard rush their crap when it comes to their MMO world of warcraft.. that thing is nothing but recycled crap nowdays. Im no fan of the starcraft series so I cant really comment on that.. When it came to Diablo and the warcraft rts I think they were both good games.. But seriously.. cant get over how bad wow is.. they have now even gotten to to the point where they recycle things EXACTLY as they were.. boss fights from a few years back that are not even slightly different.

I played both BG's and DA's... I personally like DAO better then BG.. blasphemy i know, idk what it is though.. Also BGII was better than the first one imo... still yeah all BG games are awesome, DAO is awesome.. DAII..... not so much

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 13 juillet 2011 - 08:01 .

[Pathforge]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Pathforge wrote...
*Snip*

I read down to the point where you started talking about how good blizzard is... then I tuned out, the sellouts a blizzard rush their crap when it comes to their MMO world of warcraft.. that thing is nothing but recycled crap nowdays. Im no fan of the starcraft series so I cant really comment on that.. When it came to Diablo and the warcraft rts I think they were both good games.. But seriously.. cant get over how bad wow is.. they have now even gotten to to the point where they recycle things EXACTLY as they were.. boss fights from a few years back that are not even slightly different.

I played both BG's and DA's... I personally like DAO better then BG.. blasphemy i know, idk what it is though.. Also BGII was better than the first one imo... still yeah all BG games are awesome, DAO is awesome.. DAII..... not so much

I respect your opinion 100%.  Thing is though, facts are facts.  Blizzard takes a decade to pretty much release their sequels.  Same with World of Warcraft.  The game was in the works for quite sometime.  Now I will agree that NOW the game is not what it once was.  I myself quit a while ago.  My reasons though are different from yours.  Bottom line though, regardless of what anyone else thinks they are still blowing away all other MMOs when it comes to pure profit.  There is a reason for that.  The game isn't anything new obviously.  Mechanics behind the gameplay...never anything new.  Graphics?  Obviously doesn't have anything to do with it.  If you don't like WoW then that's purely a subjective stance.  

It's not blasphemy to think DA was better than Baldur's Gate.  If you enjoyed it more than that's good.  I look at a lot of little details when it comes to games in general.  I'm just not a fan of creating NEW games that offer LESS than their predecessor.  I feel like they KNOW players will pay full retail price for less anyway because it takes less time to make.  Dragon Age II is just Awakening with different characters and a different story.  Not even as many areas to explore.  That's not the way to make SEQUELS. 

[Pathforge]

Sajuro wrote...

To put in my two cents once more, I like the map style of traveling in Dragon Age better than the open world of the Elder Scrolls since I know from experience that before I even completed the first quest in Morrowind I had ascended to the highest ranks of House Haolu, the Thieve's Guild, and the Fighter's Guild, in addition to slaughtering entirte plantations of slave holders before I stumbled upon the place where I was supposed to do the first quest (Not to mention made an attempt on the life of a god).
In Dragon Age, we knew where we were supposed to go so we could get on with the well done quests and move onto the next one.

You bring up a great point.  It was because of this that it took me a great GREAT deal of time to beat Oblivion.  The only difference between how it seems you look at it and I do is... when I spend $50 on a game that takes me months to finish... I feel like I got MORE than my money's worth. 

When I spend $50 on a game that takes me 6 days to finish... I don't feel so good about that.  Especially when it comes from Bioware. 

[Pathforge]

@t0mm06

Regarding Oblivion - CHARACTER models in Dragon Age in general are FAR superior to Oblivion. However, when Hawke speaks, I'm not paying attention to his face. I'm listening to what he says. When I TRAVEL in an rpg, I'm looking at the environment and realism behind the world itself. Side by side comparissons of environments in Oblvion vs Dragon Age the SEIRES - Oblivion is the winner by far NO CONTEST. Sure, the NPCs look like crap...but that's where you say "Hey Dragon Age came out AFTER so it makes SENSE for npcs to look better".

I loved DA: Origins. My gripe here is that DAII was a terrible game vs Origins. If you look at the sales info online DA: Origins has done much better overall. Better reception all around, better reviews, higher numbers, etc. As I mentioned before...DAII was simply Awakening with a different story and different characters. That's GREAT for an expansion. HORRIBLE for a sequel.

[Pathforge]

Rojahar wrote...

I thought Oblivion was universally considered a step down from Morrowind, and a great example of a "sequel" that guts and dumbs down things from prior games.

I also find it a bit ironic that the OP so deeply praises ME2 as a paragon of how sequels should be done, when if you wander over to ME2 forum they're STILL claiming its not a true sequel to ME1, and that its a shooter instead of an RPG-shooter.

A great deal of players felt Morrowind was a better game.  Although the sales of Oblivion reached higher than Morrowind.  Obvlion sold overall 3.5 million copies world wide. 

Mass Effect 2 does have VERY different take on the combat and leveling as compared to the original.  And yes there were quite a few people out there who felt that way.  However, in this particular argument I have brought up, it still felt like a full game 100%.  PLENTY going on, planets to explore, mining resources, much deeper character development and the game did much better as a sequel than DAII did when compared.  There are a lot more people disappointed with DAII than ME2.  This is not my opinion either.  You can see all over the web. 

[Sajuro]

Pathforge wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

To put in my two cents once more, I like the map style of traveling in Dragon Age better than the open world of the Elder Scrolls since I know from experience that before I even completed the first quest in Morrowind I had ascended to the highest ranks of House Haolu, the Thieve's Guild, and the Fighter's Guild, in addition to slaughtering entirte plantations of slave holders before I stumbled upon the place where I was supposed to do the first quest (Not to mention made an attempt on the life of a god).
In Dragon Age, we knew where we were supposed to go so we could get on with the well done quests and move onto the next one.

You bring up a great point.  It was because of this that it took me a great GREAT deal of time to beat Oblivion.  The only difference between how it seems you look at it and I do is... when I spend $50 on a game that takes me months to finish... I feel like I got MORE than my money's worth. 

When I spend $50 on a game that takes me 6 days to finish... I don't feel so good about that.  Especially when it comes from Bioware. 

I think the difference is that I equate how fun a game is to its value and not the amount of time it takes to 'beat' it, though if a game is fun I will keep playing long after I beat it and add that onto the playtime.
Example: Dragon Age 2: I find the game to be fun and the combat intuitive, I am currently breaking from my second playthrough to play some Mortal Kombat and Fable 3, which I have also played through two times as well in just over 2 days of total time (combined).
Bayonetta: I beat the main game, and the first thing I did was go back to earlier stages to play around with weapons and costumes, well worth the used price I say.
Fallout 3: I loved the game and the sweet tick of the Exp gauge. A way to contrast this with my opinion of Oblivion that that the cities are easier to find in Fallout and you have a handy map, besides the npcs look better.

Disgaea: I am on my third playthrough of the game, only beating it once since I gave up the first time.

Final Fantasy Tactics Advance: I loved this game, and I spent long after I beat the main story playing it.

Finally: Final Fantasy Tactics A2: I managed to outlevel the final boss, and I currently have 120 hours invested in it trying to get my team to level 99 to beat down some mages.

Maybe its because of my strict 'buy used' policy (Except for the Ultimate Edition of Dragon Age: Origins ) but I put less emphasis on how much time I spend and more on how fun it is.

[RPGamer13]

Pathforge wrote...

And look at Oblivion.  They had a fantastic story, with great graphics, voice overs and all kinds of amazing environmental effects.

Are you kidding?  The graphics Oblivion were horrible.  Textures were pretty bad, they weren't smooth at all, the female characters and armors all looked like they were an Afterthought... You must be thinking about the PC mods that came out that improve the look of the game, because the 360 and PS3 versions still look ugly.

Skyrim though looks like it will be a lot better though, the female faces actually make them look like women and body models actually look a lot better, even if all I've seen is one picture of a female NPC.  Skyrim looks like the game I thought Oblivion was going to be.  I'm also excited that I can play the entire game in Third Person and have fun, third person in Oblivion was horrible.


Today, I mostly blame the higher ups in huge companies that are just trying to make a quick buck.  Also, look at the world economy now and it's not like it was ten to twenty years ago.  It's just not the same now as it was, and until it gets better I don't see things changing.

[Pathforge]

@RPGAMER13 - Regarding Oblivion real quick... I had everything in graphics maxed out on PC. Game looked flawless and the environments blew away even Origins. I do NOT mean character models. NPCs look terrible. Everything else is awsome. I do agree with you on everything else though. It's just not the same anymore with a LOT of comapnies in general.

@Sajuro - I hope I didn't offend you. My comment about how I was understanding how you look at the game wasn't meant as such.

I should have approached certain things froma different avenue. I'm NOT saying that people should NOT have enjoyed Dragon Age II. I'm saying that Bioware's should have done more than what they did. The game wasn't a 2 out of 10. But I certainly don't think it was a 9 and higher.

I don't think devs should release sequels with a whole lot LESS attention to details and exploration. Especially if their previous games HAD those elements. I don't want Dragon Age to be a clone of previous games...but please don't give me a sequel that's like an expansion.