33 réponses à ce sujet

[Macropodmum]

OK so I'm on my second playthrough and it dawned on me during the opening scene when Flemeth saves you, that this occurs sometime shortly after she saves the wardens from Ostagar and sometime before the warden returns to get her grimoire (and possibly kills her to stop her body hopping to Morrigan). 

I just wonder if I am the only one that found it strange that at the point she saves your Hawke her appearance is so radically different to how it is when you meet her both times at her hut as the warden?

[TEWR]

I prefer the new look as she looks like a draconic woman who you wouldn't want to mess with unless you knew you could take her down.


There are two possible explanations:

1) Her original look was a ruse to use against Morrigan and the Warden, and her new look is her actual look.
2) Her new look is what her actual look was to the Warden as well, despite what we originally saw in Origins.


Anyway, when she saves Hawke she's already saved the Warden and Alistair and sent them on their way.

[whykikyouwhy]

There was a lot of debate on this over the past couple of months.

My personal take is that Flemeth, being all powerful and a shapeshifter (of some sort) and all, changes her appearance based on need and purpose. To convince a Warden to take her daughter along with him/her, she appears as the rumored "Witch of the Wilds" - frail, old, etc. To save Hawke from darkspawn and convince him/her to go to Sundermount for her, she appears as a dragon, and as an armored warrior-mage of incredible prowess.

I can't speak for what is real, or at least closer to the truth, but I think her appearance is just in flux and all for a reason.

[Chiramu]

I still think it's because Flemeth is a big character, and big characters get original designs .

[whykikyouwhy]

@The Ethereal Writer Redux - I bow to your awesome speed.

[jlb524]

She's a shapeshifter.

[TEWR]

I'm a pirate ninja. I'm quick like that. Ironic, since pirates and ninjas are eternal enemies.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 08 juillet 2011 - 02:09 .

[DreamerM]

"Bodies are such limiting things." -Flemeth

She's the one apparently all-powerful character in the game. She's always where she needs to be, exactly when she needs to be there, she knows everything and plans accordingly. Ever read that book Wicked? She's our Yackle.

I don't have a hard time imagining that she'd purposefully make herself look harmless and old to the Warden in order to not overshadow Morrigan, who had a very important part to play in her plan. Whereas to the Champion, she decided to look imposing and powerful, someone who's help they would not survive without.

I have no problem imagining these are not her only incarnations, either. If she's really an Old God, she may have numerous amulets and numerous versions of herself running around, doing their whatever-it-is.

Flemeth is my favorite character in all of Dragon Age. She just fascinates me. But she's also a blatant Plot-Point ex machina, a very cheap way to get the ball rolling, the very incarnation of "It's magic, we don't have to explain it!" cop-out. 

Modifié par DreamerM, 08 juillet 2011 - 02:13 .

[Macropodmum]

I would buy the whole shapeshifter thing except for the fact that I had the discussion with Morrigan about shapechanging to another human form... If it was also just a change of clothing then yes I would buy that too, but unless the whole headpiece included the hair as a wig...(did they have hair colouring products back then?)

Edited for cross over posts:  No Dreamer I never read that book....I have no doubt she would want to look powerful for Hawke but I would have thought the dragon would have been impressive enough lol

Modifié par Macropodmum, 08 juillet 2011 - 02:18 .

[ReiSilver]

I prefer the old look 'harmless old lady', it gave the impression of someone cunning and that one should never underestimate old women. She didn't have to try and impress anyone, she the goddamn witch of the wilds! What does she care?
The new look makes her look like Melaficent's tacky/less stylish sister. I like to pretend it's just something Varric made up to sound 'awesome'

Modifié par ReiSilver, 08 juillet 2011 - 02:17 .

[Marduksdragon]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I'm a pirate ninja. I'm quick like that. Ironic, since pirates and ninjas are eternal enemies.

The Fuma ninja were pirates.

Reisilver-- I do the same thing.

Modifié par Marduksdragon, 08 juillet 2011 - 02:17 .

[whykikyouwhy]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I'm a pirate ninja. I'm quick like that. Ironic, since pirates and ninjas are eternal enemies.

Isabela is the original pirate ninja. (So is she at war with herself?)

[DRTJR]

I'd guess a case of She thought it looked cool.

[DreamerM]

ReiSilver wrote...
 She didn't have to try and impress anyone, she the goddamn witch of the wilds! What does she care?
 

I'd think she'd care, in this case, because she has a very short amount of time to make a very strong impression. And while turning into a dragon is awesome, it's also such an UNREAL sort of power that going straight from Dragon to Old Woman may be so jarring that Hawke may think he hallucinated the whole thing and she'd have to waste time reminding him "no, it's real, I really did that, remember?" She probably decided that just dressing to impress was easier.

Flemeth hid her power from the Warden. She put it on full display for the Champion. She didn't want him to be able to even glance at her without knowing how strong she was. She didn't want him to forget it for a second.

Modifié par DreamerM, 08 juillet 2011 - 02:28 .

[TEWR]

Macropodmum wrote...

I would buy the whole shapeshifter thing except for the fact that I had the discussion with Morrigan about shapechanging to another human form... If it was also just a change of clothing then yes I would buy that too, but unless the whole headpiece included the hair as a wig...(did they have hair colouring products back then?)

Edited for cross over posts:  No Dreamer I never read that book....I have no doubt she would want to look powerful for Hawke but I would have thought the dragon would have been impressive enough lol

Morrigan said she personally gained nothing from doing it. She didn't say it couldn't be done.

Isabela is the original pirate ninja. (So is she at war with herself?)

So she's a pirate ninja version of Anders?



.....that was the best I could come up with.

[Macropodmum]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Macropodmum wrote...

I would buy the whole shapeshifter thing except for the fact that I had the discussion with Morrigan about shapechanging to another human form... If it was also just a change of clothing then yes I would buy that too, but unless the whole headpiece included the hair as a wig...(did they have hair colouring products back then?)

Edited for cross over posts:  No Dreamer I never read that book....I have no doubt she would want to look powerful for Hawke but I would have thought the dragon would have been impressive enough lol

Morrigan said she personally gained nothing from doing it. She didn't say it couldn't be done.

Fair enough then

[Brockololly]

ReiSilver wrote...
The new look makes her look like Melaficent's tacky/less stylish sister. I like to pretend it's just something Varric made up to sound 'awesome'

Seeing as Matt Rhodes did Flemeth's redesign, I think its pretty obvious he drew heavily from Maleficent, especially when you check out his deviantart and his version of Maleficent as compared to DA2 Flemeth:





Nothing wrong with that, but just seems they used the whole shapeshifter card as an excuse to sexualize Flemeth, not unlike how it seems BioWare's mandate to sexualize every female in their games now.

Modifié par Brockololly, 08 juillet 2011 - 02:40 .

[upsettingshorts]

Now?

Either your memory is conveniently selective, or you've cooked up some rationalization as to why previously sexualized characters from BioWare are somehow less justifiable.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 juillet 2011 - 02:50 .

[TEWR]

Didn't Flemeth talk about how she took many men to bed? As well as Morrigan and Leliana having said similar things?


I find it hard to sexualize a woman who has been reputed to take men to bed.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 08 juillet 2011 - 02:55 .

[Macropodmum]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Didn't Flemeth talk about how she took many men to bed? As well as Morrigan and Leliana having said similar things?


I find it hard to sexualize a woman who has been reputed to take men to bed.

Lol, I would think killing them afterwards would be a bit of a dampener too

[whykikyouwhy]

I know that *I* don't feel sexualized when I'm taking...nevermind.

Flemeth may just be of the Helen Mirren school of thought (and body) - at a refined, dignified, older age, if you can flaunt it, do so. I approve flaunting. It shows sexy self confidence. And she's flaunting in heavy armor, not a metal bikini.

[DRTJR]

Those Gauntlets look like they would hurt if she punched you.

[Macropodmum]

DRTJR wrote...

Those Gauntlets look like they would hurt if she punched you.

Lol, I rather think Flemeth would be more likely to rip your heart out with a beckoning of her finger than to punch you

[TEWR]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

I know that *I* don't feel sexualized when I'm taking...nevermind.

I lol'd

Flemeth may just be of the Helen Mirren school of thought (and body) - at a refined, dignified, older age, if you can flaunt it, do so. I approve flaunting. It shows sexy self confidence. And she's flaunting in heavy armor, not a metal bikini.

Indeed. She doesn't seem to actually be flaunting it in DA2, but I could see her doing that because of the reputation she's been given.

[DreamerM]

whykikyouwhy wrote...
And she's flaunting in heavy armor, not a metal bikini.

This is key for me. For me, Flemeth in DA2 looks STRONG more then she looks anything else. Even the sexy is just another aspect of the power she's showing.

Did anyone else notice the animation in conversation, that she'll inspect her right Gauntlet while she's talking to you? I couldn't help but imagine that look was similar to the looks that someone else would give a new pair of shoes that she's wearing out for the first time. Like she's impressed with it's looks, but is still trying to decide how it's feels.

Which forced me to imagine Flemeth shopping in the "Impressive Gauntlets" department of Macys. Which broke my brain.