221 réponses à ce sujet

[HTTP 404]

Sovereign....I bet he was stronger than all the reapers. I doubt it will take a fleet to take down a reaper in Me3.

[Crackseed]

I dunno, Harb is the same size as Sov and it sounds like there are multiple Reapers of Sov's power. It's not going to be an easy fight by any means.

[Bluko]

Sovereign is the better Reaper. His name alone should be evident this.

Harbinger is just an annoying squawking messenger. One who I  sincerely hope is either not overtly present in ME3 or has a greatly diminished role.

Seriously I hope we will encounter a Reaper again actually worth fearing. Speaking with or even just seeing Sovereign is always intimidating. You always get the impression that you are indeed facing some kind of malovent omnipowerful machine god. Harbinger? Harbinger is basically your typical saturday morning cartoon badguy. There's nothing scary or intimidating about him at all. He sounds too human, speaks too human, and acts too human to be feared.

Were it not for ME1 and Sovereign the Reapers would be a complete joke thanks to ME2. I mean seriously ME2 makes the Reapers look like a bunch of lost tourists. How is trying to build a new human Reaper a good idea at all? Why do machines need genetic material? (Seriously this is pretty dumb and about the worst way I could imagine the Reapers harvesting organics.) The Collectors are a joke of a threat and it's doubtful they could even stand up to an actual fleet of ships. And then we have Harbinger/Dr. Claw taunting us like a 14 year old everytime we run into them. ME2 disappointed me greatly in how it handled the Reaper Threat. 

I pray every night to the Biotic God hoping Bioware will make the Reapers something to be feared again in ME3 and that the Reapers will have a speaker that is worth fearing.

So let's get rid of Harbinger and just pretend nothing really did happen in ME2 (which isn't too far from the truth).

[Bad King]

Sovereign was cooler, but I still like Harbinger- poor guy gets a lot of hate.

[JukeFrog]

If Harbinger didn't talk at all during combat, I would have found it more imposing.

[Reapinger]

Bad King wrote...

Sovereign was cooler, but I still like Harbinger- poor guy gets a lot of hate.

"THIS HURTS YOU" every 2 seconds put me off, but Harbinger is clearly a Dreadnaught class reaper leader. He is quite intimidating to me at least. 

[Goneaviking]

I find it a more enjoyable experience if I accept Harbinger has more going on than is obvious at first glance. He certainly seems to be running more than one operation at a time, and it wouldn't surprise me if his objectives are significantly different than Sovereign's despite them both being involved in working toward the same ultimate end.

Anyway, he seems more dynamic than Sovereign, although less overtly menacing. Which actually makes me think he's more dangerous because it encourages you to underestimate him. Especially since he's demonstrated a fondness for contingency plans instead of throwing everything behind one desperate push.

Modifié par Goneaviking, 09 juillet 2011 - 11:01 .

[Nero Narmeril]

Sovereign: Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh...

Harbinger: Shepard blahblahblah Shepard blahblahblah Shepard...

Sovereign is better.

[SkittlesKat96]

I didn't mind Harbinger but I liked Sovereign a lot more just because of the sound of his voice and how scary he is.

It makes sense that they didn't want all the Reapers to sound exactly the same (but I imagine a lot of them do sound the same to each other) and Harbinger is still good though.

I really hope Harbinger isn't the main antagonist or leader of the Reapers in Mass Effect 3.

I can accept and like that he is one of the more stronger bigger Reapers and that he runs the new Reaper development projects but in my opinion the Reapers should all be 'independent nations' like what Sovereign said and that they are all mostly equal to each other.

That way they are more scarier and actually seem more 'incomprehendable' and 'beyond organic understanding'.

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 09 juillet 2011 - 11:57 .

[Fhaileas]

They both have their merits.

Sovereign was an enigmatic machine god who elicited fear and wonder in the eyes of its beholders. A truly incomprehensible being whose reasons for existence were beyond the ken of a mere organic mind to contemplate. The Virmire conversation still gives me chills ("This exchange is over...), especially when in it's aftermath Joker warns about a huge ship coming towards the Normandy.

Harbinger on the other hand was a lascivious horndog who loved to talk dirty; his "stimulating" love-talk definitely redeems him in my eyes...

Modifié par Fhaileas, 09 juillet 2011 - 12:10 .

[Parion]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

That is a misconception due to poor schematics. See, the scene is exactly the same regardless of whether or not you have upgraded. What is to actually blame for the crash is the asinine instructions of "getting in close," which was wholly unnecessary.

I know I'm not really a part of this discussion, but I just wanted to say that Imo the point of getting close wasn't so much make it harder for the Collector cruiser to bring it's cannon to bear.
Just a thought, sorry for interupting

[The Spamming Troll]

Nero Narmeril wrote...

Sovereign: Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh...

Harbinger: Shepard blahblahblah Shepard blahblahblah Shepard...

Sovereign is better.

i agree.

ME2 deserves nothing more than a crappy antagonist.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 09 juillet 2011 - 01:32 .

[In Exile]

darthnick427 wrote...

Harbinger had more lines but what little we heard from Soveriegn was pure gold. He really made you feel like an ant among gods. "You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it."

Harbinger's most epic speech was in arrival

Not really. I just don't get why people found that speech impressive. It was like a little kid trying to show how impressive he was by talking about his super awesome mega special bullet punch.

Harbinger wasn't any better, mind you. I just like Harbinger more because Bioware didn't kill it off so we have some continuity between games vis a vis the antagonist.

[Il Divo]

In Exile wrote...

Not really. I just don't get why people found that speech impressive. It was like a little kid trying to show how impressive he was by talking about his super awesome mega special bullet punch.

I think it's tied into two elements:

1) Sovereign revealed the Reapers' existence to us, which ties a new character into an enjoyable plot twist.

2) We had a dedicated conversation with Sovereign. He treats us like an ant, not worth his attention and just barely deserving to be squished.

Harbinger has far less screen time and (before Arrival) only appeared during those odd gameplay sequences, which made players wonder what the point was, beyond a gameplay mechanic. 

That aside, the basis for Sovereign's speech is non-sensical. There's no reason why the Reapers would care to reveal their existence to us, beyond pulling the Bond villain stereotype.

Modifié par Il Divo, 09 juillet 2011 - 02:44 .

[squee365]

What if harbinger wasn't actually a bad guy?

[In Exile]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
The attacks were the most idiotic thing Sovy could have done because that tells everyone somethings going on. If Saren had gone by himself on 'official buisness' no one would have batted an eye at that.

You know what really wrecks the plan? Saren just asking Nihilus to step aside and replacing him. Then he uses the beacon. Then Saren leads the investigation on the beacons for the Council, and everybody wins (and by wins, I mean dies painfully and becomes paste).

Imagine: 

Saren: Hey, Nihilus! Good buddy! How are you?
Nihilus: Saren! Great to see you. I'm off to a human ship to see if they have someone capable of being a Spectre. There's a Prothean beacon on Eden Prime I have to recover.
Saren: Why that's wonderful! I've always said humans are every bit as valuable as a turian.
Nihulus: No, I think what you said was that humans are every bit as valuable as turian cra...
[Paragon Interrupt]Saren: That was all a big misunderstanding! Anyway, let me see what's what with that human. I am, after all, the Council's best agent. I'll bring that beacon back safe and sound. 2 years in the Terminus system, I need a break.

[littlezack]

Bluko wrote...


So let's get rid of Harbinger and just pretend nothing really did happen in ME2 (which isn't too far from the truth).

It's actually pretty damn far from the truth, no matter how much ME2 haters like to pretend.

[In Exile]

Il Divo wrote..
I think it's tied into two elements:

1) Sovereign revealed the Reapers' existence to us, which ties a new character into an enjoyable plot twist.

Not if you followed the development of ME. They leaked right off the bat the reapers were the ships.

2) We had a dedicated conversation with Sovereign. He treats us like an ant, not worth his attention and just barely deserving to be squished.

It didn't feel that way to me, is what I'm saying. I don't take time out of my day to tell ants that they are bacteria and their resistance is futile. I don't notice ants. Sovereign's bluster made me feel like he was trying to intimidate me.

Harbinger has far less screen time and (before Arrival) only appeared during those odd gameplay sequences, which made players wonder what the point was, beyond a gameplay mechanic.

I think it was a way for Bioware to try to develop a foil better than Sovereign. They just failed.

That aside, the basis for Sovereign's speech is non-sensical. There's no reason why the Reapers would care to reveal their existence to us, beyond pulling the Bond villain stereotype.

Yeah, basically.

[O Tucker]

Sovereign took out half of our fleet...Harbinger sounds so cool and scary but so did Sovereign and he did say “We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.”

[In Exile]

O Tucker wrote...

Sovereign took out half of our fleet...Harbinger sounds so cool and scary but so did Sovereign and he did say “We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.”

Sovereign had a fleet of Geth. The humans didn't suffer those losses if you didn't save the Council.

[HiddenKING]

Sovereign was an emissary of the Reapers, a scout if you will, sent to open the way for the return of the Reapers. He failed.

Harbinger seems to be the leader of the Reapers, if he is not intimidating is because his chosen avatar, the Collectors, are not as intimidating as Saren was.

[Zkyire]

Sovereign seemed more imposing (but it's entirely due to the circumstances that Sovereign didn't know the threat Shepard posed.

Given that Harbinger knows what Shepard can do.. it often comes across as Stewie during the "Mom.. mom.. mommy.. " scene

Modifié par IEatWhatIPoo, 09 juillet 2011 - 03:39 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Il Divo wrote...

That aside, the basis for Sovereign's speech is non-sensical. There's no reason why the Reapers would care to reveal their existence to us, beyond pulling the Bond villain stereotype.

if we didnt know soverigns intetnions, then hed be no different then harbinger. i see it as biowares way of telling the story to the player, not really a way in making soverign dumb for revealing his plans.

i think harbinger is merely a footsoldier in ME2. soverieng almost took out the entire citadel singlehandedly.