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Expectations for DA3?


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#76
KingJason13

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UrkOfGreyhawk wrote...

I must sadly agree.

Not gonna play it. I've been boycotting EA for years. I gave Bio a pass for a while but it's clear now that Bio has been assimilated. Every game is getting a little lamer, the tech support has been pawned off on EA, and the DLC is joke. A man's got to draw the line someplace. I'm drawing it here. ME2 is my last Bio game.

Goodbye Bio. It was a great run. Let me know when you get tired of being a part of the collective and start up a new studio somewhere else.


I'm with you, Brotha.

DA2 was officially my last Bioware game until a serious change of thought occurs... and hope is dwindling with every media interaction a Bioware higher up has.

#77
HoonDing

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Dragon what now?

#78
sympathy4saren

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Chanegade wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...

I kinda trailed off reading the rest after "they should make a huge game like Oblivion" open world is not the be all and end all of RPG's i'd prefer focus on the story than making it open world so people have to spend hours walking around killing things to level up pointlessly.

Hear Hear!

Also anytime you have an open world game like Oblivion, you just end up with copy and paste environments.




All dungeons and landscapes in Skyrim are hand crafted. Nine (9) designers designed dungeons this time, ccompared to Oblivion's 1. But wasn't DA2 imfamous for copy/paste environments?

You obviously don't understand the core greatness of open world games. I enjoy both open and non-open very much....different flavors for the palate.

As for DA3, simply expect a DA2 style with a story about a super evil baddie about to invade all known existence. The thing is, Bioware wise themselves they don't consider themselves rpg developers anymore...so who knows what action they are going add to the button mashing party. You'll get good writing and story, but gameplay mechanics....totally unknown, but expect a continuation to try and get the action combat crowd.

#79
Warden Majere

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sympathy4saren wrote...

Chanegade wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...

I kinda trailed off reading the rest after "they should make a huge game like Oblivion" open world is not the be all and end all of RPG's i'd prefer focus on the story than making it open world so people have to spend hours walking around killing things to level up pointlessly.

Hear Hear!

Also anytime you have an open world game like Oblivion, you just end up with copy and paste environments.




All dungeons and landscapes in Skyrim are hand crafted. Nine (9) designers designed dungeons this time, ccompared to Oblivion's 1. But wasn't DA2 imfamous for copy/paste environments?

You obviously don't understand the core greatness of open world games. I enjoy both open and non-open very much....different flavors for the palate.

I agree with you:D I love both open world and non-open! I'm building a new computer with my uncle and one of the main reasons why is because right now I can't run Skyrim on my system and I want to play it sooo bad haha.

Idk anymore, I have been trying to give Bioware the benifit of the doubt due to the many great games they have made in the past, but everytime I read an article with them bashing on Origins to make DA2 look better or insist that DA2 is an awesome game no matter how much bad feedback they get I start to get more and more dissapointed in them. Until I see what they are doing with the next game, I won't turn away for good, but I don't think I will be buying one of their games for quite a while. :unsure:

#80
Feraele

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erynnar wrote...

Hmmm, expectations...

Like in Legacy, keep wave combat relevant and making sense, no more paratrooping, ninja, teleporting enemies.
No more cut and paste envivornments.
No more jumping in time (nice try but didn't work)
Pick one story instead of three disjointed ones to do (again kudos for trying)
No more avatars that are ineffectual like Hawke (and not where even dog is more loved by the companions)
Go back to the DAO artstyle and increase the palate (no more derpspawn, and no more grey low res furniture people) Anime threw up on a Power Ranger indeed, or WoW and Anime threw up.
A middle ground between DAO combat speed and DA2.
Fix the elves especially the NPCs good grief, they are supposed to be beautiful and alluring to humans, most were so ugly I wouldn't touch them with a bag over their heads.
More details and Easter eggs (descriptions on items, books to read, scrolls here and there).
No more "junk" that takes up my bags
Like Legacy, pretty and DAO a pretty detailed environments they make the immersion into the game like a good character and story.
Puzzles (thanks for bringing them back in Legacy)
Talking to my companions whenever I want. Not making me their little errand girl and only pushing the relationship forward when they want something from me. It makes me less attached to them when I feel like a **** being used. And I never got to really bond with them due to talking to them only in their homes while they talked to each other around me (dog getting invited to play Diamondback and Hawke left out? Makes sense).
A place like the camp where they all gather (so I can change loot, etc like in DAO without getting them in my group to do so) and where we could have more convos outside of "do this for me." The Hanged Man could have been such a place. One more wasted opportunity.
More importantly, as someone said, a lot of what was good in DA2 was already in DAO. They should seriously consider doing a 180 back again, and starting from there.

Oh, and toss out that "data" about making RPGs for people who don't like, or play RPGs and trying for the bigger pie. DAO got a big slice of pie and drew in people who wouldn't have normally played due to friends' word of mouth.


This 100 per cent.

#81
Andarthiel_Demigod

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It seems a bit silly to be Boycottin Bioware, what if DA3 actually turns out to be really good? You can't just make a judgement like that blaming it all on them being with EA. EA has nothing to do with it(apart from the customer service complaint).

#82
Weskerr

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"Blessed is the man who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed."

-Alexander Pope

#83
bussinrounds

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Weskerr wrote...

"Blessed is the man who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed."

-Alexander Pope

Great advise here.   Especially when it comes to video games in this day and age.

#84
Gorthaur the Cruel

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Andarthiel_Demigod wrote...

You can't just make a judgement like that blaming it all on them being with EA. EA has nothing to do with it(apart from the customer service complaint).

That's not entirely true. EA has in the past intervened in Bioware's development process. Inon Zur even mentioned that DA2 was rushed because EA wanted to capitaize on the success of the earlier game.

As to expectations for DA3, I don't have many. DA2 was a massive disappointment, but I guess it's a wait and see kind of situation, maybe Bioware can redeem themselves with DA3? 

#85
GumbyDammit

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Sadly, I'm not expecting much since I'm thinking they'll just dish us more DA2 as opposed to DA:O. While I'm not nearly ready to write BioWare off yet (there's still ME3, which I'm eagerly awaiting), I'm going to wait until DA3 is out and I read some player reviews as well as see some gameplay videos before I even think about buying it. Definitely not a pre-purchase or day 1 purchase for me, unlike almost all other BW titles before this.

And yeah, most of what erynnar said.

#86
Andarthiel_Demigod

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Solostran85 wrote...

Andarthiel_Demigod wrote...

You can't just make a judgement like that blaming it all on them being with EA. EA has nothing to do with it(apart from the customer service complaint).

That's not entirely true. EA has in the past intervened in Bioware's development process. Inon Zur even mentioned that DA2 was rushed because EA wanted to capitaize on the success of the earlier game.

As to expectations for DA3, I don't have many. DA2 was a massive disappointment, but I guess it's a wait and see kind of situation, maybe Bioware can redeem themselves with DA3? 

I see, it was a similar story with Alice:Madness Returns and it's deve Spicy Horse. But still it's too early to tell if DA3 will be the same.

#87
Guest_Dunstan_*

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I think I'm in the minority when I say this. (Could be wrong)
I expect Bioware will not make another half bothered game like Dragon Age 2, because they've admitted and accepted that it was a critical failure. I think that they'll respond to the fan feedback and will take their time to create the game that Dragon Age 2 should have been, and the game that probably win us back over.

Modifié par Dunstan, 31 août 2011 - 04:43 .


#88
Warden Majere

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Dunstan wrote...

I think I'm in the minority when I say this. (Could be wrong)
I expect Bioware will not make another half bothered game like Dragon Age 2, because they've admitted and accepted that it was a critical failure. I think that they'll respond to the fan feedback and will take their time to create the game that Dragon Age 2 should have been, and the game that probably win us back over.

Actually that's not entirely true, they think that "they did quite well" with it as Chris Preistly said. They see that we had issues with it but they liked DA2 and keep bashing on Origins in a feeble attempt to make Dragon Age 2 look better. With DA3 they want to combine the best of both worlds, but from what they said they had already done that with DA2. In all honestly I hope you're right and that this will be their last crappy game, but with EA pulling the strings and all their new fans to please I wouldn't excpect anything quite yet ;)

#89
Persephone

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Ask me again as soon as we know....more than nothing about it.

NWN aside, Bioware has not made me regret a single purchase yet and given how much I still enjoy DAII and Legacy, I am in high spirits.

*Goes back to watching Knight Rider because....when that car complains about stuff, it makes me laugh*

#90
UrkOfGreyhawk

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Andarthiel_Demigod wrote...

It seems a bit silly to be Boycottin Bioware, what if DA3 actually turns out to be really good? You can't just make a judgement like that blaming it all on them being with EA. EA has nothing to do with it(apart from the customer service complaint).


I'm not boycotting Bioware. I'm simply accepting the grim truth that there is no Bioware. There is now a wholly owned subsidiary of EA games that calls itself Bioware. 

No chain is stronger than it's weakest link, and EA is the weakest link in the industry.

DA 3 is going to suck. It's going to be made on the cheap and dumbed down for the console tards. That's just how EA makes games.

I'm not boycotting Bioware. Bioware is dead. I'm boycotting EA.

#91
Warden Majere

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UrkOfGreyhawk wrote...

Andarthiel_Demigod wrote...

It seems a bit silly to be Boycottin Bioware, what if DA3 actually turns out to be really good? You can't just make a judgement like that blaming it all on them being with EA. EA has nothing to do with it(apart from the customer service complaint).


I'm not boycotting Bioware. I'm simply accepting the grim truth that there is no Bioware. There is now a wholly owned subsidiary of EA games that calls itself Bioware. 

No chain is stronger than it's weakest link, and EA is the weakest link in the industry.

DA 3 is going to suck. It's going to be made on the cheap and dumbed down for the console tards. That's just how EA makes games.

I'm not boycotting Bioware. Bioware is dead. I'm boycotting EA.

Sadly, I kinda have to agree with you.... Bioware is no longer anything but a name on the case.:crying: They used to be considered the Kings of RPGs, but now they are nothing more then a name used by EA to sell their crappy games. You're also right about EA being the weakest link and yet somehow it manages to stay intact. Maybe one day a new Bioware (I don't mean Bioware with a new name) will rise up to take that throne as the Kings of RPGs. For now all we can do is continue to play the games we have before EA corrupted them and hope for the best.:unsure:

#92
naughty99

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 I will manage my expectations, but I'm hoping for 
  • lots more open exploration (less of "corridor, cut scene, fight, cut scene, corridor, fight," etc.)
  • lots and lots more sidequests (that you actually get from a quest giver, instead of receiving gold from random strangers in the street after the fact)
  • miscellaneous loot in your inventory does not feel like worthless junk
  • in-game books you can collect and read
  • joinable mage factions (Loyalists, Libertarians, Aequitarians, Lucrosians, Isolationists)
  • more NPCs with dialogue
  • I never used crafting in DA2 once I realized (1) how important it was to save up for knockback immunity items, (2) if you carry around more than 3 health potions you don't get any new ones from enemies and (3)how expensive it was to keep crafting potions/poisons - this felt like complete a waste of the crafting mechanics. I'd love to see deeper crafting for potions, armor, weapons, poisons, traps, bombs, etc., and less gameplay that incentivizes us not to craft.
  • respawning exterior areas and dungeons for people who enjoy continuing to fight and accumulate wealth. 

Modifié par naughty99, 01 septembre 2011 - 05:16 .


#93
Barbarossa2010

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Andarthiel_Demigod wrote...

*SNIP*

I think I can agree with that list. But on the other hand it shouldn't be an exact carbon copy of Origins. If the STALKER series has proven anything is that a lack of change in sequels leads to stagnation.



You know, at this point I would gladly take a carbon copy of Origins over what we got...or what we're going to get (basing that upon developer commentary).

But in all seriousness I agree with you.  The Origins formula was great.  While there was certainly no need to carbon copy it, they clearly could have built upon it and actually made the formula even better, as opposed to scuttling it.  Why/how they came about the decision to destroy it, in favor of something far inferior, is way beyond me.  Sure, they have their data, but whatever that data actually said, DA2 was clearly not the answer.

I mean, sure, the "changes" reek of cost-cutting, and nothing more, but they had to know they were going to get found out...and in a big way and that there would there be backlash.  They probably didn’t foresee that the backlash would be significant enough that sales would seriously suffer.  I think they deliberately gambled that a newer, bigger audience would emerge in significant enough numbers, to more than replace the "few" hardcore RPG fans they knew would leave.  That didn’t happen.  But, the thing is, they probably made a profitable game for EA, because let’s face it, the game looked like it was done on the cheap…really cheap, and they could count on a number of Origins fans to support sales through pre-order for a sequel even with what I consider to be, questionable marketing.
 
Well, they really can't count on that "good will" pre-order anymore and I don’t see them expanding their fan base in any meaningful way with this new approach, so I’m not real sure that their gamble will really pay off in the future.  They may well remain profitable enough to continue with a smaller fan base, but DA will never be the “big thing” they were hoping for if it stays in the mold of DA2.  I don’t care who you are, that hurts; especially when you had something so beloved (and popular) like Origins to build from.

Bottom line: they should have built on Origins, (that’s what brought many people over to try something actually new that they might not have been willing to try before), not scrapped it.  Origins was the type of game that could have built a huge following over time, had they stuck with it's mold.  Now, they just don’t know who they are anymore as a franchise (except that it’s “not going to be Origins”) and they appear to me to have a confidence problem, because they’re absolutely convinced “their new way” is the right way, but the numbers aren’t showing up to actually validate it.

Anyway, just my take…I’m dangerously close to not caring anymore.  I hear developers talk and say they want “the best of Origins and DA2,” but that is showing itself (at least, in word) to be just more DA2 going forward, with the rare bone thrown to Origins fans.  So, the more I hear from developers, the more I see that not only will we not get a carbon-copy of Origins (never a fear that many of us had), we’re not going to get anything that even remotely resembles it.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:56 .


#94
Warden Majere

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Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Andarthiel_Demigod wrote...

*SNIP*

I think I can agree with that list. But on the other hand it shouldn't be an exact carbon copy of Origins. If the STALKER series has proven anything is that a lack of change in sequels leads to stagnation.



You know, at this point I would gladly take a carbon copy of Origins over what we got...or what we're going to get (basing that upon developer commentary).

But in all seriousness I agree with you.  The Origins formula was great.  While there was certainly no need to carbon copy it, they clearly could have built upon it and actually made the formula even better, as opposed to scuttling it.  Why/how they came about the decision to destroy it, in favor of something far inferior, is way beyond me.  Sure, they have their data, but whatever that data actually said, DA2 was clearly not the answer.

I mean, sure, the "changes" reek of cost-cutting, and nothing more, but they had to know they were going to get found out...and in a big way and that there would there be backlash.  They probably didn’t foresee that the backlash would be significant enough that sales would seriously suffer.  I think they deliberately gambled that a newer, bigger audience would emerge in significant enough numbers, to more than replace the "few" hardcore RPG fans they knew would leave.  That didn’t happen.  But, the thing is, they probably made a profitable game for EA, because let’s face it, the game looked like it was done on the cheap…really cheap, and they could count on a number of Origins fans to support sales through pre-order for a sequel even with what I consider to be, questionable marketing.
 
Well, they really can't count on that "good will" pre-order anymore and I don’t see them expanding their fan base in any meaningful way with this new approach, so I’m not real sure that their gamble will really pay off in the future.  They may well remain profitable enough to continue with a smaller fan base, but DA will never be the “big thing” they were hoping for if it stays in the mold of DA2.  I don’t care who you are, that hurts; especially when you had something so beloved (and popular) like Origins to build from.

Bottom line: they should have built on Origins, (that’s what brought many people over to try something actually new that they might not have been willing to try before), not scrapped it.  Origins was the type of game that could have built a huge following over time, had they stuck with it's mold.  Now, they just don’t know who they are anymore as a franchise (except that it’s “not going to be Origins”) and they appear to me to have a confidence problem, because they’re absolutely convinced “their new way” is the right way, but the numbers aren’t showing up to actually validate it.

Anyway, just my take…I’m dangerously close to not caring anymore.  I hear developers talk and say they want “the best of Origins and DA2,” but that is showing itself (at least, in word) to be just more DA2 going forward, with the rare bone thrown to Origins fans.  So, the more I hear from developers, the more I see that not only will we not get a carbon-copy of Origins (never a fear that many of us had), we’re not going to get anything that even remotely resembles it.

I think you're totally right. It was a little rediculous to make a sequel that is nothing like its predecessor. For them to make the spiritual successor to Bladur's Gate and then give us a game that is like Dragon Age and Mortal Kombat had a sick love child and World of Warcraft puked its art style all over it. I would rather they make an exact copy of Origins then another Dragon Age 2. Bioware says that they have been taking feedback very seriously, yet after all the complaints about DA2 they still refuse to go back to the good style they had beore. Sadly this Dragon age fanboy is starting to give up on the franchise and be just an Origins fanboy.....

Long live My Warden!!!! :D

Modifié par Raistlin the Warden, 02 septembre 2011 - 01:53 .


#95
bobthecrusher

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Better character creation, and a generally better rounded game.

Oh, and if we have to have a voiced Protagonist, get rid of the Dialogue wheel.

#96
Warden Majere

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bobthecrusher wrote...

Better character creation, and a generally better rounded game.

Oh, and if we have to have a voiced Protagonist, get rid of the Dialogue wheel.


The charcter creator was weird in DA2 and I'm still not used to it, nor do I plan to. I hated the dialog wheel with a passion in that game!! One of the things I loved most in Origins was all of the choices, but in DA2 there are only good, bad, and sarcastic. What ever happened to the grey areas I loved in BG and DAO. A lot of the dialog options in DA2 lead to the samething.

#97
bussinrounds

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Raistlin the Warden wrote...

bobthecrusher wrote...

Better character creation, and a generally better rounded game.

Oh, and if we have to have a voiced Protagonist, get rid of the Dialogue wheel.


The charcter creator was weird in DA2 and I'm still not used to it, nor do I plan to. I hated the dialog wheel with a passion in that game!! One of the things I loved most in Origins was all of the choices, but in DA2 there are only good, bad, and sarcastic. What ever happened to the grey areas I loved in BG and DAO. A lot of the dialog options in DA2 lead to the samething.

  Image IPB

Modifié par bussinrounds, 03 septembre 2011 - 06:01 .


#98
Warden Majere

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bussinrounds wrote...

Raistlin the Warden wrote...

bobthecrusher wrote...

Better character creation, and a generally better rounded game.

Oh, and if we have to have a voiced Protagonist, get rid of the Dialogue wheel.


The charcter creator was weird in DA2 and I'm still not used to it, nor do I plan to. I hated the dialog wheel with a passion in that game!! One of the things I loved most in Origins was all of the choices, but in DA2 there are only good, bad, and sarcastic. What ever happened to the grey areas I loved in BG and DAO. A lot of the dialog options in DA2 lead to the samething.

  Image IPB





hahahahaha :lol: man you just made my day!

#99
Chromie

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bobthecrusher wrote...

Better character creation, and a generally better rounded game.

Oh, and if we have to have a voiced Protagonist, get rid of the Dialogue wheel.


At least adopt the Deus Ex dialogue system.

#100
Warden Majere

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I haven't played Deus Ex yet. It's one that is on my list though