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Expectations for DA3?


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#126
Morroian

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Monica83 wrote...

For the companion thing the answer is: A thing called depth

But the DA2 companions do have depth. If you don't think they do then you haven't delved deeply enough into the character interaction options. The interaction is deeper than with any DAO characters bar perhaps Morrigan. 

Monica83 wrote...


For the stat system and the skill tree well isn't enought to make an rpg.. By what you sayng also GTA san andreas is a rpg in fact gta san andreas have skills and stat as well but this isn't enought to turn a game in a rpg...

Well Deus Ex HR is being called an rpg and so is ME2 and both of those have customisation options  well short of DA2. Skyrim is getting rid of the abiltiy to apportion stats is that now not an rpg? The fact is if you can create and shape markedly different characters as you can with DA2 its an rpg.

Monica83 wrote...

And most important its not elitism its simple to have a game genre that stay loyal to his genre...

No its elitlism to say that idiots don't play rpgs, saying that says far more about you than it says about those you are referring to. 

Monica83 wrote...

Right now i am simple Unable to take what bioware says seriously...

Somehow I doubt they're losing any sleep over that.

Monica83 wrote...
For me they lost all the credibility...

But hey we have toons of useless dlc to puchase!! object pack (Cash) Belt of blablabla(cash) Blade of lowlt(cash) Ring of bla bla (cash)

No-one is forcing you to buy it, and we do have Legacy which has had all round good feedback with more story dlc on the way. As for credibility one questions exactly how much you yourself have when you bash Bioware for various mechanics in DA2 then turn around and praise The Witcher 2 which has many of the same mechanics.

Modifié par Morroian, 15 septembre 2011 - 03:28 .


#127
Homebound

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romanceable everything. romanceable beds, romanceable chairs, romanceable swords, etc.

Modifié par Hellbound555, 15 septembre 2011 - 02:00 .


#128
csfteeeer

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Andarthiel_Demigod wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

"Idiots Don't Play RPG's". Explains very well what i think


Of course. RPGs are sacred and should be reserved for the elite. The sheer complexity is just too much for us lesser creatures. Oh wait, no. There is nothing inherently more complex about RPGs and nor are the people who play them somehow more intelligent. Sorry old chap, but RPG fans are not the ubermensh come to raise up humanity above the worms and slugs.


Haha, well said Zanallen,what makes an RPG game isn't how complex the stat system is.As long as it has a skill tree, experience and levelling it's an RPG.


Not True.
What you're referring to is ACTION game with RPG elements.
RPG equals: A Game in which you take Full control of a fictional figure in a setting.
And when i say that, i don't mean like any other game ever, i mean in a game in which you take the choices and, possibly, personality of a character in a world, unlike in a regular game, in which all happens without you deciding.
The Skill Trees, Experiences and leveling are a trademark of RPGs, but not exclusive to them(GTA:SA has a set of skill bars that make your character stronger, faster, better, etc, and so does Crysis, and RDR has challenges which give your character extra abilities and items to progress. That doesn't make ANY of them, RPGs)

Romantiq wrote...
Lost all interest after Dragon Age 2. They said that they'll continue
story about Hawke and I absolutely loathe him, his ****** family and
his dull companions. Plus Skyrim is coming out soon so I will just
forget about any other game for a while.


Tell me you're joking about the companions. What exactly makes DA:O Companions superior to the ones in DA2? That was one of the best aspects of DA2 IMHO and well written.


You JUST answered your own question: Opinion( and i agree with Romantiq opinion BTW)

Modifié par csfteeeer, 15 septembre 2011 - 03:44 .


#129
Zanallen

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Please don't try and tell people what an RPG is. That is a pointless discussion. If you ask 100 people here what makes an RPG you will get 100 different answers. There is no real consensus on what makes an RPG. That is why the mods don't even let us have that discussion any more. It is pointless and never ends well.

#130
Warden Majere

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Zanallen wrote...

Please don't try and tell people what an RPG is. That is a pointless discussion. If you ask 100 people here what makes an RPG you will get 100 different answers. There is no real consensus on what makes an RPG. That is why the mods don't even let us have that discussion any more. It is pointless and never ends well.

I agree with you man. This is a conversation that never ends well.

#131
UrkOfGreyhawk

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Zanallen wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

"Idiots Don't Play RPG's". Explains very well what i think


Of course. RPGs are sacred and should be reserved for the elite. The sheer complexity is just too much for us lesser creatures. Oh wait, no. There is nothing inherently more complex about RPGs and nor are the people who play them somehow more intelligent. Sorry old chap, but RPG fans are not the ubermensh come to raise up humanity above the worms and slugs.


Wow. The whole point of that article kinda flew right over your head, huh, Zan?

I'll simplify it for you.

The people that love RPGs already play RPGs. There isn't a huge untapped market out there of people dying to discover the new Genre. By abandoning their base EA is effectively abandoning it's market, and that's stupid.

Now here's the part that's not very PC. As a rule RPGers are geeks. We grew up as part of the geek culture. We are mostly educated, we are mostly highly computer literate, and we are mostly imaginative and creative people. The term "geek" is not one of endearment. Most of us are accustomed to a certain degree of socail ostracism. As a rule the way were treated in our youth didn't make us feel terribly elite.

But... We understand games, game design and computers and are accustomed to going against the flow.

We're very unlikely to be fooled by a crappy game wrapped in pretty graphics.

It's not the complexity of the game that attracts us "elites". Some of the best RPGs are exceedingly simple. The original D&D rules were packed into a few tiny pamphlets. There were a few base classes and no skill trees. One of the greatest PnP RPGs of all time, Traveller, had NO CHARACTER ADVANCEMENT SYSTEM AT ALL. Once a character was created it was pretty much static. There was no experience point system, no increase in skills, and the only change to your stats occured from getting old.

What makes an RPG an RPG isn't skill trees, it's STORY trees. What makes an RPG different from an adventure game is the ability to make choices that affect the ultimate outcome of the story.

What attracts smart creative people to RPGs is the underlying principle of playing "make believe". It's the willingness to embrace that childish playfulness that we indulged when we used to play Cops and Robbers or Cowboys and Indians. This, I believe, takes a more sophisticated mind than your average person has to offer. Most people are far too wrapped up being what they're supposed to be to embrace this concept. They want to be percieved as "adult" and "mature". Indulging that kind of innocent playfulness terrifies most people. Many of these folks hold those of us who love role playing in unabashed contempt.

The average gamer is represented by guys who line up around the block to spend $80 on what amounts to a Madden Expansion that could easilly be delivered as DLC.

IMO these people are idiots. If that makes me an elitist snob so be it. It's better than being a total friggen' moron.

These are the customers that EA wants. They make tons of money catering to them and they're very good at it. These people want sports games, racing games, and shooters; and they want pop out gore and graphics. These are cheap, easy games to make and that's what EA is good at. These games don't require any development or innovation, just a periodic facelift.

There is nothing EA can do to get these people to love RPGs. They don't want to be immersed in another world. They don't want to have to think about the consequences of their choices. They don't want to have to read pages of exposition in order to understand the setting they are a part of, or the companions they are travelling with. They just want to blast away and see lots of gore and gasoline explosions. These are casual gamers. Many of these players hold role playing games in abject contempt.

Likewise those of us who prefer games with character, and depth, and choices with real consequences are unlikely to be convinced to accept a "newer more user friendly RPG".

Mainstreaming RPGs just isn't possible. If EA wants to get their slice of the RPG market they need to stop developing against the existing RPG fanbase, and start developing for it. They need to accept that RPGers prefer good games and appreciate innovation above graphics.

They need to get over themselves. They need to start serving the market and stop trying to "shape" it.

Ultimately they need to accept that RPGs are more sophisticated than shooters, and that they are more expensive than  shooters to develop.

Or they can just keep releasing flops.

I know where my money is.

Modifié par UrkOfGreyhawk, 16 septembre 2011 - 07:02 .


#132
Monica83

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UrkOfGreyhawk wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

"Idiots Don't Play RPG's". Explains very well what i think


Of course. RPGs are sacred and should be reserved for the elite. The sheer complexity is just too much for us lesser creatures. Oh wait, no. There is nothing inherently more complex about RPGs and nor are the people who play them somehow more intelligent. Sorry old chap, but RPG fans are not the ubermensh come to raise up humanity above the worms and slugs.


Wow. The whole point of that article kinda flew right over your head, huh, Zan?

I'll simplify it for you.






The people that love RPGs already play RPGs. There isn't a huge untapped market out there of people dying to discover the new Genre. By abandoning their base EA is effectively abandoning it's market, and that's stupid.

Now here's the part that's not very PC. As a rule RPGers are geeks. We grew up as part of the geek culture. We are mostly educated, we are mostly highly computer literate, and we are mostly imaginative and creative people. The term "geek" is not one of endearment. Most of us are accustomed to a certain degree of socail ostracism. As a rule the way were treated in our youth didn't make us feel terribly elite.

But... We understand games, game design and computers and are accustomed to going against the flow.

We're very unlikely to be fooled by a crappy game wrapped in pretty graphics.

It's not the complexity of the game that attracts us "elites". Some of the best RPGs are exceedingly simple. The original D&D rules were packed into a few tiny pamphlets. There were a few base classes and no skill trees. One of the greatest PnP RPGs of all time, Traveller, had NO CHARACTER ADVANCEMENT SYSTEM AT ALL. Once a character was created it was pretty much static. There was no experience point system, no increase in skills, and the only change to your stats occured from getting old.

What makes an RPG an RPG isn't skill trees, it's STORY trees. What makes an RPG different from an adventure game is the ability to make choices that affect the ultimate outcome of the story.

What attracts smart creative people to RPGs is the underlying principle of playing "make believe". It's the willingness to embrace that childish playfulness that we indulged when we used to play Cops and Robbers or Cowboys and Indians. This, I believe, takes a more sophisticated mind than your average person has to offer. Most people are far too wrapped up being what they're supposed to be to embrace this concept. They want to be percieved as "adult" and "mature". Indulging that kind of innocent playfulness terrifies most people. Many of these folks hold those of us who love role playing in unabashed contempt.

The average gamer is represented by guys who line up around the block to spend $80 on what amounts to a Madden Expansion that could easilly be delivered as DLC.

IMO these people are idiots. If that makes me an elitist snob so be it. It's better than being a total friggen' moron.

These are the customers that EA wants. They make tons of money catering to them and they're very good at it. These people want sports games, racing games, and shooters; and they want pop out gore and graphics. These are cheap, easy games to make and that's what EA is good at. These games don't require any development or innovation, just a periodic facelift.

There is nothing EA can do to get these people to love RPGs. They don't want to be immersed in another world. They don't want to have to think about the consequences of their choices. They don't want to have to read pages of exposition in order to understand the setting they are a part of, or the companions they are travelling with. They just want to blast away and see lots of gore and gasoline explosions. These are casual gamers. Many of these players hold role playing games in abject contempt.

Likewise those of us who prefer games with character, and depth, and choices with real consequences are unlikely to be convinced to accept a "newer more user friendly RPG".

Mainstreaming RPGs just isn't possible. If EA wants to get their slice of the RPG market they need to stop developing against the existing RPG fanbase, and start developing for it. They need to accept that RPGers prefer good games and appreciate innovation above graphics.

They need to get over themselves. They need to start serving the market and stop trying to "shape" it.

Ultimately they need to accept that RPGs are more sophisticated than shooters, and that they are more expensive than  shooters to develop.

Or they can just keep releasing flops.

I know where my money is.


Pretty much what him say..

It's not about elitism is about don't ruin a game gender..

You can't make RPG for people that dislike RPG it's pretty stupid....

#133
C9316

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I expect to be able to kill hawke...

#134
KenKenpachi

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Oh look its another What is an RPG topic.

#135
UrkOfGreyhawk

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KenKenpachi wrote...

Oh look its another What is an RPG topic.


Is it? I thought I was being forced to defend my position that DA3 was going to suck because EA has no understanding of RPG fans or respect for the genre.

But since you bring it up...

I'm not familiar with all these "what is an RPG" threads you're talking about, but then I don't normally participate in the general forums. I guess it's no secret that I'm feeling a little disenfranchised by bioware and rather indifferent to the communities outside the classic RPG forums. But IMO an RPG is a "Role Playing Game".

I would interpret that as, "A game in which you play a role".

Seems like kind of a no-brainer to me.

Modifié par UrkOfGreyhawk, 16 septembre 2011 - 05:49 .


#136
Monica83

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KenKenpachi wrote...

Oh look its another What is an RPG topic.


oh look another fanboy spammer

#137
Chuvvy

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Every time I see this thread the first thing that pops into my head is "low". Then I remember I posted that on page one. Anyways, Laidlaw seems to think DA2 was a flawed step in the right direction so, who knows what's going to happen in DA3.

#138
Warden Majere

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Slidell505 wrote...

Every time I see this thread the first thing that pops into my head is "low". Then I remember I posted that on page one. Anyways, Laidlaw seems to think DA2 was a flawed step in the right direction so, who knows what's going to happen in DA3.

I will wait until after i play the new DLC to say I have any expectations for the game, but Legacy was a step in the right derection. We will see if the new DLC goes in the same derection.

Modifié par Raistlin the Warden, 27 septembre 2011 - 12:03 .


#139
Warden Majere

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C9316 wrote...

I expect to be able to kill hawke...

Ok, that I wouldn't mind doing :lol:but only if I get to do it as my Warden :whistle: sadly that is not the case <_<

#140
Kaiser Arian XVII

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Expectations for DA3?


Make it more like DA:O and NWN2 or shut it down forever and make KOTOR III instead.

#141
Mercedes-Benz

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It will be a good game. I just wish it will be more like Dragon Age: Origins, and less like Dragon Age II.

#142
Warden Majere

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Mercedes-Benz wrote...

It will be a good game. I just wish it will be more like Dragon Age: Origins, and less like Dragon Age II.

Instead we get a love-child of the two.....

#143
Jonp382

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Raistlin the Warden wrote...

Mercedes-Benz wrote...

It will be a good game. I just wish it will be more like Dragon Age: Origins, and less like Dragon Age II.

Instead we get a love-child of the two.....



I think that's just PR talk. They probably don't want people to think either game(especially DA2, since it's their latest game) is seriously flawed. They do have you travelling around saving the world this time, we already know. So that part at least is more like Origins, although the saving the world part is quite regrettable. Anyways, as time goes on, and we hear more about DA3, I think it will sound more and more like DA:O or a new DA and not like DA2.

#144
naughty99

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They are not going to go back to start over with the Eclipse Engine.

All we can really expect with DA3 is essentially DA2 with some improvements.Despite its faults, I enjoyed the game and played it quite a bit.

What I'm hoping for is something along the lines of the following:

IMO the most important change would be many more sidequests and no retroactive DA2 fetch quests (where some random person suddenly gives you money and you have no idea what it's for). Instead, it would be great to have a slightly more traditional way to pick up new side quests, whether you speak with a quest giver, pick it up from a chanter's board, or read a found in-game letter or note.

Also:
- Greater impact of choices on the ending or multiple endings
- More open exploration of terrain and various cities, towns, instead of only one
- Crafting that actually serves a purpose (rather than being too cost prohibitive when you need to save up for knockback immunity items and you can get free potions by not carrying more than 4 at a time)
- Deeper crafting mechanics
- Less recycled maps
- Areas that respawn, so the game doesn't feel so linear and you can travel to locations in any order, even returning to older locations
- No more "junk" inventory - let it actually be useful items rather than thousands of "torn scarves"
- No more "Fire Staff with +15% cold damage buff" etc.
- Retain basic combat mechanics of DA2, including immunities and Nightmare mode difficulty settings
- Better combat tactics for high level bosses

also....

Image IPB

Modifié par naughty99, 08 octobre 2011 - 03:54 .


#145
naughty99

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One more thing I'm really hoping for DA3 is improved inventory system that allows every item you find to exist in the game world.

For some reason, in DA2 (and in DA:O as well), inventory items do not have real world meshes. That is to say, you can find a suit of armor, a diamond, a "torn scarf," a mage's staff, etc., in a chest or when looting a body, but you will never ever see one of these items sitting on a shelf and pick it up.

They simply do not exist other than on your inventory list.

I highly doubt this would ever make it into DA3, but IMHO it would be one of the greatest possible improvements to the game engine.

Even an fps game like RAGE has all sorts of items that you encounter in the game world, such as oil, bandages, antiseptic, rags, etc., and these items have a physical form that you can pick up and add to your inventory.

I think it makes exploration and looting a lot more rewarding and adds to the immersion or "suspension of disbelief" quality of the environments. Not to mention it would also be a major enhancement to the experience of crafting, finding ingredients, recipes, etc.

IIRC there were a couple of books that you can find in DA:O and DA2 and read - I hope they add lots more in-game books, spell tomes, etc.

Modifié par naughty99, 08 octobre 2011 - 03:51 .


#146
Warden Majere

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naughty99 wrote...

One more thing I'm really hoping for DA3 is improved inventory system that allows every item you find to exist in the game world.

For some reason, in DA2 (and in DA:O as well), inventory items do not have real world meshes. That is to say, you can find a suit of armor, a diamond, a "torn scarf," a mage's staff, etc., in a chest or when looting a body, but you will never ever see one of these items sitting on a shelf and pick it up.

They simply do not exist other than on your inventory list.

I highly doubt this would ever make it into DA3, but IMHO it would be one of the greatest possible improvements to the game engine.

Even an fps game like RAGE has all sorts of items that you encounter in the game world, such as oil, bandages, antiseptic, rags, etc., and these items have a physical form that you can pick up and add to your inventory.

I think it makes exploration and looting a lot more rewarding and adds to the immersion or "suspension of disbelief" quality of the environments. Not to mention it would also be a major enhancement to the experience of crafting, finding ingredients, recipes, etc.

IIRC there were a couple of books that you can find in DA:O and DA2 and read - I hope they add lots more in-game books, spell tomes, etc.

With this post and the one before, this is starting to sound like Oblivion hahaha

#147
Warden Majere

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So after the new DLC, what does everybody think and where do you think the series is going?

#148
Chromie

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Raistlin the Warden wrote...

So after the new DLC, what does everybody think and where do you think the series is going?


I think it's much worse than Legacy. Played it on a friends 360 so I didn't have to waste my money. Seriously Felicida Day isn't going to magically make it better. The series is going down hill...we can all see that. The only thing that would make DA3 an instant buy would be a 4 year wait which includes a new engine or licensed engine. Better writing is also a must. The DA series is using magic as a crutch for like everything! I'm still waiting for the Dark Fantasy that was marketed to us since Origins but it's anything but.

#149
Jonp382

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I haven't bought it and thus haven't played it, nor will I. It has pathetic written all over it, and I hope it gets blasted. How anyone can enjoy being treated like a teenage girl is beyond me.

#150
naughty99

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Ringo12 wrote...

Better writing is also a must.


What particular aspect of the writing did you dislike or would like to see improved upon? 

Jonp382 wrote...

I haven't bought it and thus haven't played it, nor will I. It has pathetic written all over it, and I hope it gets blasted. How anyone can enjoy being treated like a teenage girl is beyond me.


I disliked the way that sidequests and inventory were handled and the way that you are not able to fully side with the mages or the templars (in either case you still have to fight both Orsino and Meredith), but I didn't feel that I was treated like a teenage girl.

Overall despite its faults it was a fun game, and the combat on Nightmare mode was more challenging than DA:O Nightmare mode. If you haven't played it, it is certainly worth picking up on sale at least. 

Modifié par naughty99, 17 octobre 2011 - 12:30 .