39 réponses à ce sujet

[jsog]

Perhaps this is self explannatory, but what build for some kind of archer would bring the highest overall damage to the party?  AKA, while the character's damage is important, some consideration should be given to buffs or pets or what not.

Just trying to figure out what to do for my next play through, and I decided I wanted an archer... Any suggestions? =)

[Yenkaz]

I would go for Rogue + Ranger + Assassin, but I'm sure someone calculated DPS on this..



In any case, go for the hotfix first http://dragonage.gul...rity_hotfix_101 without it, archers are quite lackluster.

[tranj84cl]

If you want to help out the party, I'd roll a rogue archer, specializing in Bard. To maximize your Bard songs, I'd go Dex/Cunning. You can go Duelist if you want to crit more, or Assassin (only the first skill) if you want to increase damage on bosses.



I've heard good things about Str/Dex Warrior archers too, but I personally prefer rogues. One thing about Dex/Cun is that you *will* be missing a bit more. That's because Lethality does not add to hit chance. Missing an Arrow of Slaying is probably one of the most annoying things in this game.

[mian52]

For a rogue Bard/Duelist is where it is at IMO. I dislike ranger pets a great deal. However the dueling toggle gives you a good attack bonus (+10, equivalent to precise striking for Warriors, yes both work on bows, I've tested it).

As a rogue get Dex/Cun and use lethality to replace the Str portion of damage with cunning. Finally with your boosted cunning you can use the various Bard Songs (Song of Courage for crit/attack/def bonus)

Also, if you have Warden's Keep the two Power of Blood moves for warriors/rogues (give bonus damage) also work for bows, if your willing to sacrifice some health.

If your dead set on going Warrior, get Champion/Templar. Templar for the first two moves (AoE dispel+mana burn attack) and Champion for the buffs/debuffs.

Get Precise Striking, +10 attack is very nice as an archer. Another thing as a Warrior is if you get the talent that gives you less fatigue from armor you can and Master Archer will allow you to wear Heavy Armor as an archer with little to no penalty (So the Dragonscale Armor, great fire resist and a lot of stam and stam regen).

Modifié par mian52, 20 novembre 2009 - 10:23 .

[Yenkaz]

mian52 wrote...

For a rogue Bard/Duelist is where it is at IMO. I dislike ranger pets a great deal. However the dueling toggle gives you a good attack bonus (+10, equivalent to precise striking for Warriors, yes both work on bows, I've tested it).

As a rogue get Dex/Cun and use lethality to replace the Str portion of damage with cunning. Finally with your boosted cunning you can use the various Bard Songs (Song of Courage for crit/attack/def bonus)

Also, if you have Warden's Keep the two Power of Blood moves for warriors/rogues (give bonus damage) also work for bows, if your willing to sacrifice some health.

If your dead set on going Warrior, get Champion/Templar. Templar for the first two moves (AoE dispel+mana burn attack) and Champion for the buffs/debuffs.

Get Precise Striking, +10 attack is very nice as an archer. Another thing as a Warrior is if you get the talent that gives you less fatigue from armor you can and Master Archer will allow you to wear Heavy Armor as an archer with little to no penalty (So the Dragonscale Armor, great fire resist and a lot of stam and stam regen).

But.. archery damage is based on dexterity alone, how does lethality come into play?

[n_Lion]

I believe Bows, like Daggers, are based on half Strength & half Dexterity.

[jsog]

I think that some bows have a strength modifier to damage... or they say they do anyway.

[Yenkaz]

Seems that it does add str to damage, but not to attack.



Which makes me wonder if going all cunning will make you miss more?

[Crackseed]

If you go cun/dex, you do have a higher miss rate since str ups your hit rate with some of the ranged weapons [I believe this is for longbows w/ the hotfix and for all 3 w/o the hotfix]

There's on reason you can't build a str/dex/cun build either if you want to skip lethality and reap both +atk/+dam bonuses with a solid amount of str.

I know on my first playthrough I had a 40 str/50+ dex/40 cun [with bonuses, etc] archer rogue that landed about 45-50 damage shots with Falon'Din [Dear Far Song - where are you hiding *sniffle*] and this was without lethality. My biggest slaying crit was on a mage for about 573 IIRC, and usually upwards of 250 even with heavier armored targets provided I had some armor softening going on for them.

It's possible to build a lethality one with enough +atk bonuses that you probably won't notice the loss of str anyway, but the gearing will demand a bit more +atk pieces.

I'm doing a new rogue-archer on hard now and I'm trying to plot out the route I want to go. The issue I find with rogue-archer is that you are WAY too crunched on points, especially if you want a solid investment in Ranger/Bard skills, combined with combat stealth, lethality, lockpicking and then your 12 archery skills.

Modifié par crackseed, 20 novembre 2009 - 11:08 .

[archpsi]

With the hotfix both bows and crossbows depend 100% on dex for damage (hit and damage modifier). You will only want str/cunning if you insist on using longbows or enough str for a crossbow requirement (30 for tier 7).

[Lord Niah]

Do yourself a favor and just focus on dexterity to start with. You can raise your cunning a bit as well, but only enough to qualify for the stealth talents (which are not optional for an archer, btw). You also should strongly consider getting the duelist specialization ASAP and taking the dueling talent. The biggest issue you will face as a rogue archer is not hitting stuff consistently, especially if you aren't standing right on top of them (or better yet, right behind them).

[jsog]

So do rogue archers "backstab" with bows?

[mian52]

Archer Rogues cannot backstab with bows.



As for the whole cunning/dex Vs straight Dex. Going straight Dex might get you a couple points more damage, but you lose out on lockpicking, coercion, and other things like that. As an archer rogue you need 20 str at most (with +stat items, so there's a +2str/+2dex/+4attack ring and a +2 all stats ring, so 16 str) your cunning will most likely be higher than that by a fair margin.



If your going to have high cunning, you might as well get the talent that gives bonus damage from it.

[metatrans]

backstab requires melee. you can however gain flanking bonuses with bows if you fire into their rear arc. flanking bonuses for a rogue are up to +20 attack and +10% crit chance. very worthwhile, so fire at their rears if you can manage it.

[archpsi]

Something to consider when it comes to lockpicking is that you only need 20 cunning if you get the lockpicking skills.

Modifié par archpsi, 21 novembre 2009 - 07:11 .

[tranj84cl]

archpsi wrote...

Something to consider when it comes to lockpicking is that you only need 20 cunning if you get the lockpicking skills.

It's 30 cunning total if you have all 4 points into Lockpicking.

Rogue Mechanics Explained

[Sharog]

If u aiming for a Damage archer u do better with a warrior really, although not by a far margin. the biggest issue with bows is hit rating, for some reason the ranged attacks are harder to hit compare to melee. any cunning build with rogues always have the hit rating problems.

[Ultrazennn]

Archery....meh. In the un modded game it's pretty frustrating and lackluster. Rate of fire on bows, even one with rapid aim, is laughable. Here is the problem in a nutshell, you're looking for DPS?

1. Spec every possible archer talent.

2. Spec 0 rogue talents.

3. Equip 2 crappy melee weapons and watch your DPS triple.

This is the root of the problem, archery sucks. A completely unspeced in any rogue talent/full speced archer, will do *much* more damage with 2 crappy weapons standing behind a target.

I've actually been fooling around with the toolset editor quite a bit, and have fiddled around with a lot of values. If you mod the game and set the *power* variable on the rapid aim function, you can end up with a skill set that doesn't suck, nor is it overpowered.

Archery and 2h both suffer from the same problems.

1. Runes. In the case of 2h, runes not scaling with weapon speed.

2. In the case of archer, not even being available.

3. Rate of fire (really slow) is not made up for by damage per shot.

In answer to your quesiton as far as usefull specs go, I find that being able to restealth and distract (bard) are very handy.  Once you get some points in the archery tree, you can at least do stuff like scatter shot/restealth or arrow of slaying/distract.  Bard in general is very handy side spec.

Knowing what I know about the game, I'd make a bard/rogue/archer hybrid.  Actually makes a fun main character if you build it right, as you can end up with a great utility character.  The spec choices/tree choices I would shoot for are.

1.  Arrow of slaying.  The only archery talent worth a hoot, and at least you usually get one good shot in on bosses.

2.  Stealth.  Being able to restealth in combat is one of the best things you can unlock as a main character, as every major fight starts with a cutscene and you surrounded.  Great way to dump agro on your tank.

3.  The dual wield tree.  In most situations, you will do far more DPS standing behind mobs auto attack with 2 melee weapons, this gives you a nice sidebar to your skills.

Archery is a decent...and that's using the term in the most favorable possible light, suplimentary spec.  There are plenty of times in the game where there are hordes of ranged enemies.  If you choose to be the person that sits there and picks them off, instead of CCing them, or making them kill each other, it can be  errr..ummm...ok. 

On a bright and sunny note, there are times where ranged attack make the game much easier, but on a not so bright and sunny note, they are kind of cheesy and border on exploiting poor AI choices.

All that being said, you should play through the game yourself, and pick the skills that look entertaining to you.  You may come up with a playstyle that you just love, and think is the bees knees.

That, or you could get my archery mod lol.

Modifié par Ultrazennn, 21 novembre 2009 - 08:42 .

[xIc3x]

You need 30 cunning and maxed lockpicking talent, or 40 cunning and 3 talents into lockpicking in order to pick the hardest locks. 20 cunning is wrong.



I think the highest damage would be a rogue archer/ranger, with 20 str, 22 cunning, and all the rest into dex. Use shortbows. With the dex hotfix, that would do tons of damage.

[jsog]

Shortbows basically have a faster firerate but lower damage per shot, right? I've not found any great ones, unless I mistook some longbows for shortbows... Do you know where any decent ones might be? I think there's a tier 6 longbow from Brecilian ruins, but that's the only bow of any kind I remember from my play throughs (though, granted, I tended to vendor them a lot >.>)

[xIc3x]

Yeah, shortbows shoot a little faster but have less damage. If you play on pc there is a hotfix that makes shortbows do 1dmg per dex instead of 0.5 per dex and 0.5 per str. I think the main problem with shortbows is there aren't as many good ones. My archer only got to level 7 and then I made a melee rogue. I've made another archer but only level 6, I have no idea where to get a good short bow.

[dannythefool]

crackseed wrote...
I know on my first playthrough I had a 40 str/50+ dex/40 cun [with bonuses, etc] archer rogue that landed about 45-50 damage shots with Falon'Din [Dear Far Song - where are you hiding *sniffle*] and this was without lethality. My biggest slaying crit was on a mage for about 573 IIRC, and usually upwards of 250 even with heavier armored targets provided I had some armor softening going on for them.

Lethality wouldn't make a difference for you if you had the same strength and cunning. I played a rogue archer with focus on Cunning (26 str, 48 dex, 58 cunning) and had similar numbers; greatest hit was 558, normal hits around 50-60 and usual aos hit above 250 as well. This was a ranger/duelist so no bonuses from assassin.
Here's the link to the profile: http://social.biowar...&game=dragonage

It's possible to build a lethality one with enough +atk bonuses that you probably won't notice the loss of str anyway, but the gearing will demand a bit more +atk pieces.

If you build on Cunning you also get to spend less points on Deft Hands. I put three points in it but would have needed only 2 or even 1 to be able to pick any lock in the game.

[archpsi]

Oops I forgot the -10 in the formula. Its 30 then. Still you should focus mainly on dex.

[Gangbangjoe]

Do NOT underestimate the DPS of the wolf (very good howl ability aswell) of a ranger. Once it's blighted it pumps some DPS too. I went Bard + Ranger with Leliana and boy, she did quite some DPS.



I used the 2H Longbow from the tiny dragon in the werewolf lair all game long.



It's Leliana + Wolf + Howl that counts together tbh.

[Dendybar]

Ultrazenn, what archery mod are you talking about?