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Scott Nichols Mass Effect 3 Romance choices article a must read


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#176
KawaiiKatie

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AngelicMachinery wrote...

Addai67 wrote...


Image IPB  Er, for a lot of higher order species in the animal kingdom, males have peens of various types, too.  It's kind of de rigeur to have a slot and tab for reproduction.


Just because it works that way on earth, doesn't mean that it works that way on other planets.


Exactly. That's why I get so pissed off when "female" aliens have to look "female" by human standards. That's why I get so pissed off when Bioware devs say, "Oh, where would we even begin to make a Turian look female? Do we slap lipstick on her?"

Yeah, because gender norms are so rigid and absolute that things like "lipstick belongs on females!" would transcend all organic races. Not to mention that all females of every race must have hourglass figures and rockin' boobs!

So yeah, if male Turians and Krogan have almost identical organs (plus or minus a few testes) to human males, I won' tbe surprised, because that's how the Mass Effect universe seems to roll. But will that stop me from wishing that the writers would break free of their self-imposed gender norms? Absolutely not.

#177
AngelicMachinery

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Ryzaki wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...
Pretty much this. 

It's a necessary part of sci-fi, though. 

If they made them too alien it'd probably be terrifying, or at least extremely difficult to empathise with. 

And like Wolf said, they wanted to make them bangable. Relatable, talkable, just human enough to allow us to warm to them. 

It's totally unrealistic, but ME isn't exactly 'hard' sci-fi in any event (ME tried valiently to explain things quasi-scientifically, but ME2 just threw everything out the window). 

Disregarding minor details like, I dunno, evolutionary biology and the laws of probability don't seem to matter when the object is to make an attractive blue space lesbian or a frog-man ;)

 

Ah true. 

But I'd love it if they were alien. Make them Qunari like or something. 

And bleh. The humans are the only ones who need to be bangable.Most aliens should be "wtf are you smoking?" to a human ofering sex.  

Bleh. Frog men and space elves. BLEH. 


But... if you lick Thane you can go on a vision quest!

#178
KawaiiKatie

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AngelicMachinery wrote...

But... if you lick Thane you can go on a vision quest!


"I had not thought to return to the Fade in such a way..." ;)

#179
CrookedAsylum

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The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Youknow wrote...

As much as you don't like it, that IS the case for some people. I knew a
guy for years (like 10) before he came clean about his sexuality. And
it wasn't even because he felt comfortable with me, it was because
someone was making fun of him and shielding him. His reasoning? I'm
apparently too aggressive to just tell things like that. Kinda hurt my
feelings actually...


And how many times does that happen? And did he say that he had feelings for you(as that is the case we are talking about)?


Actually, it took me until my junior year of college for me to even realize I was bisexual.

Image IPB

#180
Ryzaki

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KawaiiKatie wrote...
Exactly. That's why I get so pissed off when "female" aliens have to look "female" by human standards. That's why I get so pissed off when Bioware devs say, "Oh, where would we even begin to make a Turian look female? Do we slap lipstick on her?"

Yeah, because gender norms are so rigid and absolute that things like "lipstick belongs on females!" would transcend all organic races. Not to mention that all females of every race must have hourglass figures and rockin' boobs!

So yeah, if male Turians and Krogan have almost identical organs (plus or minus a few testes) to human males, I won' tbe surprised, because that's how the Mass Effect universe seems to roll. But will that stop me from wishing that the writers would break free of their self-imposed gender norms? Absolutely not.

 

Oh god that's so stupid. They really said that? 

Especially considering they don't even transcend all human cultures. 

That's getting more and more irksome the more I think about it. 


AngelicMachinery wrote...
But... if you lick Thane you can go on a vision quest!

 

Not tempting. My Shep's liable to kill himself doing that. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 08 juillet 2011 - 06:18 .


#181
Guest_The Big Bad Wolf_*

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CrookedAsylum wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Youknow wrote...

As much as you don't like it, that IS the case for some people. I knew a
guy for years (like 10) before he came clean about his sexuality. And
it wasn't even because he felt comfortable with me, it was because
someone was making fun of him and shielding him. His reasoning? I'm
apparently too aggressive to just tell things like that. Kinda hurt my
feelings actually...


And how many times does that happen? And did he say that he had feelings for you(as that is the case we are talking about)?


Actually, it took me until my junior year of college for me to even realize I was bisexual.

*snip*


And that answer what exactly?

Modifié par The Big Bad Wolf, 08 juillet 2011 - 06:20 .


#182
Han Shot First

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I know, I know, Garrus already can hook up with female Shepard and Ashley seems to fancy male Shepard. But when playing as a male Shepard, I can’t recall a single time when Garrus or Kaiden made any reference to their sexual orientation. Likewise with Ashley when playing as a female Shepard. As far as relationship options go, these characters are blank slates.


I disagree with the author here.

From his point of view, any character that hasn't outright told you that he or she is straight is a blank slate that can be defined by Bioware as bisexual in the next game. The proplem with that is that people don't usually go around telling people that they are heterosexual unless they've got insecurity issues or it is relevant to a conversation, but how many times does that come up in conversation? I can think of only one time in my life where I've straight up told someone I was heterosexual, and that was in a Marine recruiting office before 'Don't ask don't tell' was implemented, and it was one of the screening questings asked along with, "Have you ever been arrested" and "Have you done drugs."

If you think of people in your life that you'd define as heterosexual, what gives you that impression? Is it because they've told you they are heterosexual or is it because they've only dated and/or married people of the opposite sex? I suspect that with the majority of people it is the latter.
 
So why shouldn't the characters in Mass Effect be similarily defined? If a character has only shown interest in Shepards of the opposite sex and their known dating history only involves people of the opposite sex, then they should return in ME3 as heterosexual romance options only. This might rule out characters like Garrus, Ashley or Kaidan for same sex romance options, but Bioware kind of dug themselves in that hole by defining them as heterosexual for two games. Jack however could be made a same sex romance option for women since she has been with a least one woman in the past.

The other issue I have with making every character that hasn't told you they are straight a blank slate, is that by default it removes heterosexual characters from the game. Now everyone is either defined as gay or bi, and those that aren't defined as gay or bi, are ambiguous rather than heterosexual. This isn't an accurate reflection of reality where there is no ambiguity about heterosexual people being the majority.

The only blank slate characters should be characters that are being introduced in Mass Effect 3, or characters from previous games who have not discussed past relationships.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 08 juillet 2011 - 06:21 .


#183
slimgrin

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Jimmy Fury wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...
And asari having vaginas and boobs. But I don't see anyone talking about that.

... But asari don't have vaginas and there's some evidence to suggest they might not have breasts either. 



Image IPB

Modifié par slimgrin, 08 juillet 2011 - 06:20 .


#184
KawaiiKatie

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Ryzaki wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...
Exactly. That's why I get so pissed off when "female" aliens have to look "female" by human standards. That's why I get so pissed off when Bioware devs say, "Oh, where would we even begin to make a Turian look female? Do we slap lipstick on her?"

 

Oh god that's so stupid. They really said that? 

Especially considering they don't even transcend all human cultures. 

That's getting more and more irksome the more I think about it.


Yup. They totally said it. Enjoy.

"We usually try to avoid the females. 'Cause... 'cause what do you do with a female Turian? Give her breasts? What do you do? Put lipstick on her?"

.....HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. :pinched:

#185
AngelicMachinery

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I would one day love to see an asari that associated with the masculine gender.

#186
Ryzaki

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KawaiiKatie wrote...

Yup. They totally said it. Enjoy.

"We usually try to avoid the females. 'Cause... 'cause what do you do with a female Turian? Give her breasts? What do you do? Put lipstick on her?"

.....HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. :pinched:

 

Image IPB

There...there are no words. 

#187
slimgrin

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AngelicMachinery wrote...

I would one day love to see an asari that associated with the masculine gender.


If the forums clamour loud enough for a male Asari to romance, trust me, we'll get one. Lore be damned.

~Edit~

Modifié par slimgrin, 08 juillet 2011 - 06:36 .


#188
AngelicMachinery

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slimgrin wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I would one day love to see an asari that associated with the masculine gender.


If the forums clamour loud enough for a male Asari, trust me, we'll get one. Lore be damned.


I'm not talking about a Cis-Male asari,  that damages Lore.

#189
KawaiiKatie

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slimgrin wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I would one day love to see an asari that associated with the masculine gender.


If the forums clamour loud enough for a male Asari, trust me, we'll get one. Lore be damned.


Not an outright "male Asari," but a transgender Asari. Maybe an Asari who grew up in a non-Asari culture, and doesn't really identify with the traditional "gender-blind" values of her race. Maybe she undertook drastic reconstructive sugery to make herself look more "masculine" by alien standards, perhaps reducing her breasts and her fringe. That would be awesome.

Because the truth is, not every Asari in the galaxy could be truly gender-blind. Perhaps gender had no meaning to the Asari when they were alone in the glaxy, but they've been in contact with other sapient races for thousands of years. There has to be a significant amount of Asari raised outside the traditional Asari culture, and who have therefore questioned her own (lack of?) gender.

I would love for Bioware to explore this issue. I doubt they ever will.

#190
tmp7704

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Jimmy Fury wrote...

... But asari don't have vaginas

I sure hope they have some alternative way to actually give birth to their children, then.

#191
TheMarshal

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AngelicMachinery wrote...

Just because it works that way on earth, doesn't mean that it works that way on other planets.


What is it about other planets that makes you think that part of their anatomy would be wildly different?  I mean, they're planets that have produced bipedal humanoids which aren't vastly different from humans (nostrils, eyes, mouths, 'ears').  There may be subtle biological differences (dextro-amino, etc.) and not-so-subtle differences (secondary and tertiary organs in krogan), but if all of those things were the same, why would the whole 'Tab-A into Slot-B' form of reproduction somehow be wildly different?

And yes, my first contribution to this thread is a discussion on why alien sex organs are just like ours!  :wizard:

#192
rolson00

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AngelicMachinery wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

So your sugggesting is his penis is SO EPIC that it will cause long term pain to Shepard.

Dood,  people who romance Garrus are teh dumbz.


lol:lol:
But anyway, it's true that Turians have male parts, as Krogan too. Both Wrex (in his dialogue about Aleena) and Garrus (abour doctor Saleon) confirmed that.


Man,  why can't alien sex be weird.  At least the Asari are kind of strange,  but, it's not really secksing.

yes it is its an unbelievable mind f*ckImage IPB

#193
DaveExclamationMarkYognaut

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TheMarshal wrote...

why would the whole 'Tab-A into Slot-B' form of reproduction somehow be wildly different?


I'm just going to leave these links here. Then I'm gonna grab some brain bleach :sick:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloaca
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claspers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_dart
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aedeagus
http://en.wikipedia....i/Spermatophore
http://en.wikipedia....Plant_sexuality
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Hectocotylus

But Bioware doesn't have the quads to go this route. In their mind, alien = blue chick with weird hair.

#194
Jimmy Fury

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tmp7704 wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

... But asari don't have vaginas

I sure hope they have some alternative way to actually give birth to their children, then.

Who said they give birth the way humans do?

For all we know Asari are sponges and their motorboatable chest mounds (which, as far as we know, are just that. Mounds. Breasts require mammary glands which requires a mammalian species. The female turian in the comic has chest bumps too but avian anatomy doesn't make breasts likely) are buds that will break off and grow into new Asari once psychic-brain-sex has hit the genetic random number generator.

They certainly look squishy enough to be sponges.

#195
slimgrin

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The writers never anticipated this level of scrutiny, I guarantee it.

Modifié par slimgrin, 08 juillet 2011 - 07:30 .


#196
DaveExclamationMarkYognaut

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slimgrin wrote...

The writers never anticipated this level of scrutiny, I guarantee it.


Sh*t, man, if they anticipated any scrutiny at all they would have given Shep a plausible motivation for joining Space Hamas :)

#197
AngelicMachinery

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slimgrin wrote...

The writers never anticipated this level of scrutiny, I guarantee it.


They should have,  in the age of the internet everything can be picked apart and scrutinized in the weirdest way possible.  We are in the age of kissing cthulu.

#198
ScotGaymer

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AngelicMachinery wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

The writers never anticipated this level of scrutiny, I guarantee it.


They should have,  in the age of the internet everything can be picked apart and scrutinized in the weirdest way possible.  We are in the age of kissing cthulu.



I agree given the level of scrutiny ME 1, DAO , ME2, and DA2 all exprienced they should know to expect it by now lol.

#199
shepskisaac

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Han Shot First wrote...
If you think of people in your life that you'd define as heterosexual, what gives you that impression? Is it because they've told you they are heterosexual or is it because they've only dated and/or married people of the opposite sex? I suspect that with the majority of people it is the latter.
 
So why shouldn't the characters in Mass Effect be similarily defined? If a character has only shown interest in Shepards of the opposite sex and their known dating history only involves people of the opposite sex, then they should return in ME3 as heterosexual romance options only. This might rule out characters like Garrus, Ashley or Kaidan for same sex romance options, but Bioware kind of dug themselves in that hole by defining them as heterosexual for two games. Jack however could be made a same sex romance option for women since she has been with a least one woman in the past.

There's a big difference between characters that told you about their 1 or two at most past relationships and real life friends you know for years and saw/knew/heard about their multiple partners. Kaidan tells you about his one teenage "girlfriend" he didn't even kissed or had sex with lol. At the age of 17 at that lol 15 years prior Mass Effect 1. I mean, c'mon. If you met a guy like that would you be like "ohh! he had a crush on one girl 15 years ago! 100% straight beyond the slightest doubt".

Modifié par IsaacShep, 08 juillet 2011 - 07:36 .


#200
Jimmy Fury

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slimgrin wrote...

The writers never anticipated this level of scrutiny, I guarantee it.

The only fact in this entire thread :lol: