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Talking about true loyalty... The people that really stuck by Shepard.

Débuté par Kreidian , juil. 08 2011 03:33

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112 réponses à ce sujet

#26
Arppis
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 05:23

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hhh89 wrote...

I think that in the eventuality that in ME3 we'll have to choose between Geth and Quarians, Tali will not be that loyal if we'll choose the former.


"When there is a paragon, there is a way." 

Doubt you will have to choose between them, instead, just make them co-operate and fight against common foe.

Welsh Inferno wrote...

Liara is creepy loyal. Unless you romanced her there's no way she'd go to the lengths she did to get your body.


You wouldn't do everything within your power to save one of your closest friends? I know I would. And why shouldn't she be loyal? Well alright... if you played racist in the ME1, it doesn't explain it at all.

And you know what they say: "Bros before hoes". Friends always come first, because THEY are truely loyal.

Modifié par Arppis, 08 juillet 2011 - 05:27 .

#27
frostajulie
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 05:34

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Garrus and Tali are definitely the true friends they both despise cerberus but they followed shepard so if she was being manipulated they would have the opportunity to save her. The VS is not only not loyal but they suck as a friend they flat out admit you might be being manipulated by a terrorist organization but they leave you to it thats cold especially for a LI. They also flat out call you a traitor which they would never do if they truly knew you unless your a douche renegade but again that is especially harsh from a LI.

I know if my brothers or BF were being manipulated by a terrorist organization I would never let them leave to be further manipulated by them. We would hire one of those debrainwashing groups or do the deprogramming ourselves. So I kind of think its worse if they DO think shep is being manipulated but overall they are awful friends and worse LI's. I only romanced Garrus once but Kaiden will find himself on the outside not because he hurt my shepards ittle feelings as some suggest but because hes a bad friend and a wishy washy LI.

Ok except I do have 1 shep for him, but thats all he gets. I also have a shep willing to take Ashley back since she likes chics now.

#28
Raiil
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 05:37

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Arppis wrote...


You wouldn't do everything within your power to save one of your closest friends? I know I would. And why shouldn't she be loyal? Well alright... if you played racist in the ME1, it doesn't explain it at all.

And you know what they say: "Bros before hoes". Friends always come first, because THEY are truely loyal.


Well, that's where the creepy factor comes in for some of us. My canon Shepard was a complete bag of dicks to her, insulting, trying to stonewall her from doing that asari mind-meld thing, etc. Then Liara is all SHEPARD MY FRIEND when I see her on Illium, and I find out she hunted my corpsicle across the galaxy and gave it to terrorists in hopes of resurrecting my overworked ass. I wasn't a racist, I was a jerk, but still.

#29
Dean_the_Young
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 05:48

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A bit less 'loyalty' might do some of those characters some good. Or rather, a bit less personal-fixation on Shepard.

Liara's sentiment would be sweet if it weren't for the fact that she's the sort of person who would do it regardless of the type or nature of personal connection. Instead it becomes creepy, and she needs to learn that, being an Asari, she's already outlived the life spans of most the people she will ever meet.

Tali putting Shepard over the migrant fleet in order to work with terrorists might be loyalty to Shepard, but it's a lot less loyalty to the people have a lot better claim to it. She should also stand up for herself a bit more considering her performance in ME2, but I'll let that one be blamed on Quarian culture.

Garrus... Garrus disappointed me by going to Omega. I don't blame him at all for being willing to work with Shepard, but god damn he needs some patience and to stick with a cause past the point it becomes tedius and frustrating.

#30
Images
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 05:53

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GodWood wrote...

I ratted out Tali's war-criminal dad.
She's not loyal :P


Yeah I always thought with how righteous she acted, especially about the well being of the flotilla that she'd WANT people to know how her daddy went a little derpidy derp with his after school project. I mean, someone's going to find out what happened! Hell Xen did and she's twice as loopy. Oh great we've upgraded from a Von Braun to an Eichmann.

But I would have to go with Doc, Anderson and Garrus.

Modifié par Images, 08 juillet 2011 - 05:54 .

#31
Dariustwinblade
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 06:04

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****! I completely forgot about Andersen. Not only was he loyal as hell he was probabaly has the highest SANITY TO LOYALTY RATIO IN ME.

Most other an a little loose in the screw.

#32
crimzontearz
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 06:10

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joker can die during the collector boarding. Sure it's a game over screen but shepard's death is completely non canon in ME2. As a result the resulting save file can't be imported

#33
DaringMoosejaw
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 06:17

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crimzontearz wrote...

joker can die during the collector boarding. Sure it's a game over screen but shepard's death is completely non canon in ME2. As a result the resulting save file can't be imported


Well you can't import a save file with Joker remaining dead anyway, as you wouldn't have finished the game. But even if you could import unfinished saves, he'd still be fine.

#34
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 06:44

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Ah, if only loyalty could be measured by the time people spend together. Two people could stay together for decades, and never truly know each other. Just because they're easy to recruit doesn't mean they're loyal. Their loyalty simply has never been put to the real test.

If Tali had to choose between Shepard and her people, what do you think she would choose? The answer should be obvious. She wouldn't hesitate for a moment to sell Shepard out. She already made that choice, indirectly, when she forced a Paragon Shepard into a false testimony.

Garrus, on the other hand, has no true allegiances, so it would be difficult to test his loyalty. However, he is the one who is most acceptant of Shepard's decisions, and the least offensive if you choose to keep the base. He doesn't even give you any grief about working with Cerberus, which is a refreshing attitude, since the rest of the universe treats you like evil incarnate for it.

Keeping the base is a pretty good test for your teammate's loyalty, actually. Almost every single teammate fails it. They have little knowledge of the situation, but they show zero faith in Shepard's decisions nonetheless.

I would say that Wrex is the most loyal. His loyalty has been put to the ultimate test in ME1, and you can clearly see him choosing Shepard in a difficult situation because Wrex trusts in him. And that was a much harder dilemma than the one VS faced. Actually, it was a completely opposite one, which is funny - the survival of VS' species was at stake, too, and they chose to doom humanity because they couldn't bring themselves to work with Shepard.

Liara is an odd one. I still have no idea what's going on inside her head. Hilarious, considering that some Shepards should have a pretty good idea about what's swimming in her mind, and only the player is left in the dark.

I don't see Joker and the doctor as loyal. They're here because they want a position on a ship, and apparently they can't get it any other way. Joker fails the loyalty test rather spectaculary, when he chooses his ship over his captain, disobeying the direct orders of his captain, which results in Shepard's death. Even VS, for all their treacherous attitude, doesn't get Shepard killed.

On the other hand, Wrex follows Shepard in ME1 because Shepard is either persuasive or does things for him. It's not a true loyalty, not really, when it can be bribed so easily. I don't think anyone in the game is "loyal" to Shepard. Especially not in ME2, where the people are only "loyal" to you because you do favours for them. It's present in ME1 with Tali's gift, as well. It's like you're buying this feature on a market - I do one quest for you, and get loyalty in exchange. Very business-like.

#35
RhiPanda
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 06:48

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tbh Joker didn't choose the ship over his captain, he had no idea anybody was still on board and he had no idea Shepard would come and get him. He really chose the ship over his own life...

#36
Rahmiel
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 07:18

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I don't think it has anything to do with which characters are more loyal. The VS, Liara, and Wrex weren't in the second game because the devs/writers wanted to ensure they would survive for the third game. Naturally, because they have larger roles.

I'd have to consult the suicide mission flow chart, but I believe Tali and Garrus could end up dying (again, I'd have to check).

So I don't believe anything should be read into which characters were squadmates and which ones weren't. I gathered all this from those interviews Casey gave before E3. He was just sitting in a lobby and the series of interviews were basically picking apart the vision behind Mass Effect as a trilogy.

#37
Kaiser Shepard
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 07:23

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Garrus is the only truly loyal one of the two returning squaddies.

Ms. Zorah's "loyalty" is dependant on your willingness to cover up a major war crime.

#38
Son of Illusive Man
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 07:41

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littlezack wrote...

Wrex and Liara were willing to work with Shepard, too, they just had other crap to deal with. And they both help you, in their own ways.


#39
Smeelia
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 07:50

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Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Ms. Zorah's "loyalty" is dependant on your willingness to cover up a major war crime.

To be fair, she sticks with you even if you do turn in the evidence (and you could argue that you're being disloyal in going against her wishes, it's a moral conundrum).  I'm not sure the "loyalty" gameplay mechanic is a reliable indicator of true character loyalty.

#40
Kathleen321
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 08:28

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Dariustwinblade wrote...

****! I completely forgot about Andersen. Not only was he loyal as hell he was probabaly has the highest SANITY TO LOYALTY RATIO IN ME.

Most other an a little loose in the screw.


haha good point. I can't wait to fight along side him in ME3. I hope he can punch Udina one last time too. :P

#41
Kreidian
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 02:24

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Many good points here! Really I was considering mainly those that stuck it out with you and actually followed Shepard directly. I.E. part of the team.

Liara definitely deserves a mention, at the very least she is certainly a special case. When you think about it, Liara is probably the most loyal; whether psychotically so or not is up to the individual I suppose. Technically she even becomes part of the team in ME2 with LotSB.

Still, I do find it funny that the most loyal teammates are all non-human.

#42
In Exile
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 03:37

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Welsh Inferno wrote...

Liara is creepy loyal. Unless you romanced her there's no way she'd go to the lengths she did to get your body.


Liara was creepy in ME too.

Shepard: Hey! Tell me about the Asari.
Liara: You know what I hate? How people lie about the asari. Like that we have space sex with anything. That would be silly. It's almost everything. We just focus our reproductive energy on interspecies sex. Which is totally not bestiality. Because it's not. We use... ummm.. our genetic code melds or something. 
Shepard: ....:huh:

#43
In Exile
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 03:40

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Dean_the_Young wrote...
Garrus... Garrus disappointed me by going to Omega. I don't blame him at all for being willing to work with Shepard, but god damn he needs some patience and to stick with a cause past the point it becomes tedius and frustrating.


Garrus being a hothead with more heart than sense is pretty crucial to his character.

#44
AcidGlow
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 05:03

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GodWood wrote...

I ratted out Tali's war-criminal dad.
She's not loyal :P


You MONSTER D:  lol

#45
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 05:12

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Your best friends are the ones willing to tell you when you're wrong.

#46
JaceTAce
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 05:20

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GodWood wrote...

I ratted out Tali's war-criminal dad.
She's not loyal :P


I want to clear something up about Tali's dad.  Despite the fact the he's been working on a way to fight the geth and did some things in ME 2 that led to the death of everyone on his ship, he still had the best intentions.  Might be considered a traitor to some if people knew in the game, but they were for the right reasons.  I can accept the principle of a higher risk may grant a higher reward at time, which is why if someone were to do anything with the best intentions, such as for family, I couldn't bring myself to consider them evil, just going things the wrong way.  Same with Cerberus, though not as well since they intentionally going to the extremes which cause the death and or suffering of others.  Still, their intentions are still something to be admired and accepted, but their ways and methods are to be looked down upon.  Also, I don't like their xenophobic tendencies, but that's something for Shepard to handle.

#47
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 05:22

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Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Garrus is the only truly loyal one of the two returning squaddies.

Ms. Zorah's "loyalty" is dependant on your willingness to cover up a major war crime.


Well her "mission" loyalty, yeah. She stills remains loyal to Shepard, even if she is angry and hurt. I'd like to think that she'd mature a bit and realize that Shepard was right to reveal the evidence. Or at least that Shepard and good reasons.

#48
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Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 05:29

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RhiPanda wrote...

tbh Joker didn't choose the ship over his captain, he had no idea anybody was still on board and he had no idea Shepard would come and get him. He really chose the ship over his own life...


Joker knew perfectly well that Shepard was here. Shepard stood right before him and ordered him to leave the ship. And Joker said "no." He disobeyed the order of his superior officer, while the ship was falling apart around them. Shepard had to spend extra seconds to convince him, and that why Shepard has died.

Besides, it's captain's job to be the last to leave the ship. Shepard is the captain, that's why he comes after the last member of his crew. Joker had to know that. He's just too selfish to care. Also, he heard the order of evacuation, but refused to leave the ship anyway.

Maybe it's his lack of military training. I can't imagine that with his condition he would be put through the proper drilling. He never learned to follow orders without question, and that's why "he won't abandon the ship," and that's why he would argue with his captain and complain when Shepard hauls him out. He's just not a soldier, and his reluctance to follow orders got Shepard killed.

Modifié par laecraft, 09 juillet 2011 - 05:32 .

#49
ubermensch007
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 05:50

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I'm going to have to go with (First & Formost) -- Adimiral Steve Hacket, Ken & Gabby and Grunt and Jack...

As we learn from the Shadow Broker Intel, Admiral Hacket defended Shepard from the Alliance in 2185, without so much as seeing the man in the flesh and looking in his eyes to see if it really was Shepard.That can never be forgotten.I've been a fan of the Admiral since Mass Effect, but when I read that report -- I had a sense of renewed respect and affection for him akin to when in Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Harry Potter while under his 'Invisibilty Cloak' heard Professor McGonagal say with pride that "Harry Potter was a member of her house.":wub: :wizard:

As good as Anderson has been to Shepard in the past he stonewalled us this time around.Shepard even says to him,"I thought that we were friends." :(  He doesn't trust Shepard as long as he's with Cerberus.The Admiral doesn't care about that.Hackett trust Shepard with highly classified information in the DLC: Arrival...

Gabby & Ken stood up for Shepard, though they had never met the man.And they only joined Cerberus to work with Shepard and fight against the Reapers.

Grunt: I love his enthusiam.His energy.His eagerness to learn and challenge himself...If you haven't played Archangel's Recruitment Mission with Grunt & Zaeed in your team --  I highly recommend that you do :P While talking to the Blood Pact Leader, who ask Grunt, "Why are you traveling with this human young one?" Grunt has nothing but praise and admiration for Shepard.He is like a son to me, or younger brother.When I was helping him complete his "Right of Passage" I was really and truly moved when he said, "Shepard is my Battlemaster... He has no equal."

When he said this, I had a genuine, goodness to God, Aww -- moment :wub: And I was like,"That's my nephew right there..." B)

Urban Dictionary: An expression of endearment, or when you feel like something is cute/sweet/touching/whatever

Subject Zero: Jack -- For some reason, more so than any other character in the game -- My desire to win her trust. To have her loyalty. To let her know that she could let her guard down around me and have no fear that I would ever do anything to cause her pain.Was of paramount importance to me...She has been through so much.She has done terrible things and terrible things have been done to her as well.I was determined to be "one of the good things" in her life...And I am. ^_^

Modifié par ubermensch007, 09 juillet 2011 - 06:50 .

#50
assassin of Keelah
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 06:31

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ubermensch007 wrote...

I'm going to have to go with (First & Formost) -- Adimiral Steve Hacket, Ken & Gabby and Grunt and Jack...

As we learn from the Shadow Broker Intel, Admiral Hacket defended Shepard from the Alliance in 2185, without so much as seeing the man in the flesh and looking in his eyes to see if it really was Shepard.That can never be forgotten.I've been a fan of the Admiral since Mass Effect, but when I read that report -- I had a sense of renewed respect and affection for him akin to when in Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Harry Potter while under his invisibilty cloak heard Professor McGonagal say with pride that "Harry Potter was a member of her house.":wub: :wizard:

As good as Anderson has been to Shepard in the past he stonewalled us this time around.Shepard even says to him,"I thought that we were friends." :(  He doesn't trust Shepard as long as he's with Cerberus.The Admiral doesn't care about that.Hackett trust Shepard with highly classified information in the DLC: Arrival...

Gabby & Ken stood up for Shepard, though they had never met the man.And they only joined Cerberus to work with Shepard and fight against the Reapers.

Grunt: I love his enthusiam.His energy.His eagerness to learn and challenge himself...If you haven't played Archangel's Recruitment Mission with Grunt & Zaeed in your team --  I highly recommend that you do :P While talking to the Blood Pact Leader, who ask Grunt, "Why are you traveling with this human young one?" Grunt has nothing to but praise and admiration for Shepard.He is like a son to me, or younger brother.When I was helping him complete his "Right of Passage" I was really and truly moved when he said, "Shepard is my Battlemaster.He has no equal."

When he said this, I had genuine goodness to God, Aww -- moment :wub: And I was like,"That's my neohew right there..." B)

Urban Dictionary: An expression of endearment, or when you feel like something is cute/sweet/touching/whatever

Subject Zero: Jack... For some reason, more so than any other character in the game -- My desire to win her trust. To have her loyalty. To let her know that she could let her guard down around me and have no fear that I would ever do anything to cause her pain.Was of paramount importance to me...She has been through so much.She done terrible things and terrible things have been done to her as well.I was determined to be "one of the good things" in her life...And I am. ^_^




That.was.BEAUTIFUL *rapid clapping*
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