112 réponses à ce sujet

[Kachie]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Ash/Kaidan- Intensely loyal
Grunt- Intensely Loyal
Wrex- Intensely Loyal
Liara- Intensely Loyal
Garrus- Loyal
Mordin- Loyal
Miranda- Loyal
Legion- Loyal
Jack- Somewhat Loyal
Thane- Somewhat Loyal
Tali- Somewhat Loyal
Jacob- Not Really Loyal
Kasumi- Not Really Loyal
Zaeed- Not Really Loyal
Samara- Not Really Loyal

You forgot Grunt LOL

Actually I feel different on some of those.

For example, I find Miranda only somewhat loya until the end, then she seems much more loyal, perhaps not intensely loyal, but loyal enough to dump Cerberus, and that had to be a big decision for her because she was intensely loyal to them for a long time. For her, they were good reasons even. They helped her out with her sister and herself, but in the end she resigned to follow Shepard (if you blew up the base, I've never kept it so I wouldn't know how she reacts to that).

And Samara has got to be at leat loyal, she DID perform a deep Jusitcar oath to Shepard after all. If that isn't loyalty, at least it's a very honorific respect.

Modifié par Kachie, 10 juillet 2011 - 12:26 .

[DarkDragon777]

Grunt is the second person on the list


And maybe I should move Samara to "Somewhat Loyal"

[Kachie]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Grunt is the second person on the list


And maybe I should move Samara to "Somewhat Loyal"

Totally missed Grunt sorry lol

[Ryzaki]

Kachie wrote...
I'm just going by what I know, and have experienced. 

I don't mind if people hate Liara, or the Asari in general. I DO know one person who despises the race and finds them all a bunch of ****s.

Do I agree? Not really, but can I respect it? You bet I can, because that's who I am. I respect what people feel or think

 

So am I. 

My only issue is the way her friendship(like Garrus and Tali's) is forced on Shepard even if that's not what happened in ME1. 

It's bad storytelling. 

[Kachie]

Ryzaki wrote...

Kachie wrote...
I'm just going by what I know, and have experienced. 

I don't mind if people hate Liara, or the Asari in general. I DO know one person who despises the race and finds them all a bunch of ****s.

Do I agree? Not really, but can I respect it? You bet I can, because that's who I am. I respect what people feel or think

 

So am I. 

My only issue is the way her friendship(like Garrus and Tali's) is forced on Shepard even if that's not what happened in ME1. 


It's bad storytelling. 

Well like I said Bioware can't make a new scenerio for everybody's
Shepard. It's got an amazing decision system, but it isn't unlimited.

For
things like hating on Aliens in general, or disliking one or two or
more people for what ever reason, they'd have to make a nearly seperate
game for the differences in these types of scenerios.

It's just a lot of time and resources Bioware just either doesn't wish to spend on, or cannot spend on.

It's not so much bad story telling, as telling the story THEY want to, or the one the majority wishes to see

Modifié par Kachie, 10 juillet 2011 - 12:35 .

[AcidGlow]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Ash/Kaidan- Intensely loyal
Grunt- Intensely Loyal
Wrex- Intensely Loyal
Liara- Intensely Loyal
Garrus- Loyal
Mordin- Loyal
Miranda- Loyal
Legion- Loyal
Jack- Somewhat Loyal
Thane- Somewhat Loyal
Tali- Somewhat Loyal
Jacob- Not Really Loyal
Kasumi- Not Really Loyal
Zaeed- Not Really Loyal
Samara- Not Really Loyal

Tali and Garrus should be intensely loyal

Modifié par AcidGlow, 10 juillet 2011 - 12:39 .

[Ryzaki]

Kachie wrote...
Well like I said Bioware can't make a new scenerio for everybody's
Shepard. It's got an amazing decision system, but it isn't unlimited.

For
things like hating on Aliens in general, or disliking one or two or
more people for what ever reason, they'd have to make a nearly seperate
game for the differences in these types of scenerios.

It's just a lot of time and resources Bioware just either doesn't wish to spend on, or cannot spend on.

It's not so much bad story telling, as telling the story THEY want to, or the one the majority wishes to see

Except that's exactly what the did in ME1. They allowed Shepard to be pro-alien or anti-alien when he/she dealt with his/her party members.

It's bad storytelling because they gave a way of RPing in the original and didn't bother following through with it in the sequel.

As for a lot of time and resources, I'm not asking for completely different plotlines. I'm asking for a few lines difference without the forced Shepard my friend.

If they didn't want to tell that story they shouldn't have given the options in the first place

[Kachie]

Ryzaki wrote...

Kachie wrote...
Well like I said Bioware can't make a new scenerio for everybody's
Shepard. It's got an amazing decision system, but it isn't unlimited.

For
things like hating on Aliens in general, or disliking one or two or
more people for what ever reason, they'd have to make a nearly seperate
game for the differences in these types of scenerios.

It's just a lot of time and resources Bioware just either doesn't wish to spend on, or cannot spend on.

It's not so much bad story telling, as telling the story THEY want to, or the one the majority wishes to see

Except that's exactly what the did in ME1. They allowed Shepard to be pro-alien or anti-alien when he/she dealt with his/her party members.

It's bad storytelling because they gave a way of RPing in the original and didn't bother following through with it in the sequel.

As for a lot of time and resources, I'm not asking for completely different plotlines. I'm asking for a few lines difference without the forced Shepard my friend.

If they didn't want to tell that story they shouldn't have given the options in the first place

I would agree on that part, but every game series has it's flaws.

[DarkDragon777]

AcidGlow wrote...

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Ash/Kaidan- Intensely loyal
Grunt- Intensely Loyal
Wrex- Intensely Loyal
Liara- Intensely Loyal
Garrus- Loyal
Mordin- Loyal
Miranda- Loyal
Legion- Loyal
Jack- Somewhat Loyal
Thane- Somewhat Loyal
Tali- Somewhat Loyal
Jacob- Not Really Loyal
Kasumi- Not Really Loyal
Zaeed- Not Really Loyal
Samara- Not Really Loyal

Tali and Garrus should be intensely loyal

Maybe Garrus, but not Tali. Tali seems to be slightly more loyal to the quarians in general.

[Elvis_Mazur]

I would put as loyal only Liara, Garrus and Tali, in this specifically order.

As for the least loyal, I would say the VS fits in that place; they are loyal to the Alliance, not to Shepard. They proved that during Horizon.

[DarkDragon777]

I think the VS was just in shock over learning that you work for Cerberus. They apologized later, anyway.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

Liara is creepy loyal. Unless you romanced her there's no way she'd go to the lengths she did to get your body.

I find it strange too that she, alone, out of the original crew, refused to believe Shep was gone. That she went through so much to get Shep back and to believe Cerberus unproven statement on Shep can be brought back alive. Was she grasping at straws, in her intense desire to have Shep alive, from an org every non-human knew to be against them?

As an LI, it makes sense.

Not as LI, well. I put it down to her years of isolation. By her own admittance, she chose to stay away from other people because she felt awkward, shy and lacking confidence in socialising. Part of it could be due to the stigma of being a pure blood and that she was considered young in her field of work, thus not garnering the respect or recognition. Every Asari her age is doing the atypical; colouring themselves up and shaking their butts at dance floors, doing the mercenary stuff, etc. But she was not, she was the oddball. 

When Shep picked her up in ME1, everything changed. Suddenly, she mattered, she was important, she was part of a group doing something immense, she mind melded for the first time, she found solid support from Shep, from the Normandy crew (even if some were wary of the aliens onboard the ship). Perhaps it's like being enclosed in dark space and getting exposed to colours for the first time. Hence, she has a deeper bond with Shep, the one and only person she got close to in her years. Someone whose char and strengths attracted her. A person she admired greatly and whom she definitely has deep feelings for. Perhaps she also believed Shep is the only one who has the best solution against the Reapers.  So, I guess, why she did what she did was not surprising.

Modifié par Obsidian Gryphon, 10 juillet 2011 - 03:31 .

[Golden Owl]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Ash/Kaidan- Intensely loyal
Grunt- Intensely Loyal
Wrex- Intensely Loyal
Liara- Intensely Loyal
Garrus- Loyal
Mordin- Loyal
Miranda- Loyal
Legion- Loyal
Jack- Somewhat Loyal
Thane- Somewhat Loyal
Tali- Somewhat Loyal
Jacob- Not Really Loyal
Kasumi- Not Really Loyal
Zaeed- Not Really Loyal
Samara- Not Really Loyal

Intensely Loyal:

Garrus (from early on)
Wrex (since Virmire)
Liara (though I am not sure it's that healthy)
Jacob (I believe he would become so with a paragon Shep in ME3)
Samara (I believe she also would become so with a paragon Shep in ME3)

Loyal:

Tali (loyal if you didn't have her exiled...Not loyal if you did have her exiled)
Mordin (since his LM)
Grunt (so long as theres fighting to be done, could be a problem when the fightings over though)
Miranda (Maybe more loyal to renegade Shep)
Legion (he will always remain loyal I think)
Jack (only if you romance her, other wise only somewhat loyal)

Somewhat Loyal:

Ash/Kaidan (though this will change to loyal, maybe even intense loyal in ME3)
Thane (unless you romanced him, I can't really see him changing his loyaly status)
Zaeed (as he said, even he can see a galaxy shaking revelation, this accounts for any loyalty he has)
Kasumi (she mentions she is a fan of Sheps, she knows what he is doing is important, this accounts for her loyalty)

[darthnick427]

Garrus is my Shepard's bro for life and without a doubt his best friend. I took him on every mission and I mean EVERY mission since I recruited him. And Tali and Liara have been my F buddies so of course they're loyal as hell! XD

And I think yeah, the fact that Tali and Garrus have been covering your ass through every adventure should be mentioned. Make it obvious through dialog that he trusts them more than anyone and are basically . I do think Liara and Wrex are just as loyal and that should be shown as well.

Anyone who survived the suicide mission should definately show absolute loyalty to shepard too though. I mean I feel like all of them would follow you into hell itself........unlike Miranda XD see what I did there? lulz. Any new squadies should question shepard occationally and loyal guys will tell them to shut the hell up

The VS(Kaidan) in my case can shove it. I lost what little respect I have for them after horizon. I'm gonna renegade interupt their ass when I see them and either punch them in the face or kill them. Their loyalty doesn't mean jack **** to me now and I play paragon

[AVPen]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

AcidGlow wrote...

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Ash/Kaidan- Intensely loyal
Grunt- Intensely Loyal
Wrex- Intensely Loyal
Liara- Intensely Loyal
Garrus- Loyal
Mordin- Loyal
Miranda- Loyal
Legion- Loyal
Jack- Somewhat Loyal
Thane- Somewhat Loyal
Tali- Somewhat Loyal
Jacob- Not Really Loyal
Kasumi- Not Really Loyal
Zaeed- Not Really Loyal
Samara- Not Really Loyal

Tali and Garrus should be intensely loyal

Maybe Garrus, but not Tali. Tali seems to be slightly more loyal to the quarians in general

Tali's loyality and her character in general is honestly one of the most complex one of the series, based on your actions toward her:
- how you treated her in the first game
- whether you helped her or not in completing her Pilgrimage
- your actions on Freedom's Progress and Haestrom
- how you treat her on the Normandy
- what you say during her trial
- whether you withhold or turn over the evidence on her father
- whether you get her exiled or cleared of the charges of treason
- whether you romance her or not
- whether you take her side, Legion's side, or get the two of them to work together

Having said that, I'd honestly say that she's displayed as much loyality as Garrus towards Shepard throughout the series and that even though the Quarians are indeed important to her, her priority is to Shepard and his mission.

Also... I would strongly argue that the VS is as "Intensely Loyal" as you listed them, considering their actions and responses on Horizon to Shepard. <_<

Modifié par AVPen, 10 juillet 2011 - 03:42 .

[88mphSlayer]

no love for Conrad Verner?

[JBONE27]

Kreidian wrote...

This is just a thought that I've wanted to share. I'm kinda surprised no one has really discussed this yet - or at least at my in ability to find such a thread; I fully admit I may utterly suck at the intarwebs this early in the morning.

So assuming they survive, the only two teammates that have been with shepard at every step of the way since the very begining, in every single game, will be Garrus and Tali. Now certainly fan favoritism has played a role in this, but I do think it's interesting that the two most loyal teammates, willing to work with Shepard even while she was working with Cerberus, were these two aliens. ( So alien infact that they even have a different base carbon pattern. )

At the very least it would be nice to see some serious acknowledgement of this in the game.

Granted, technically speaking they weren't there from the very begining, and certainly not at every step of the way, after all, you don't even meet them until well after Eden Prime. As far as the whole crew goes, that honor belongs to Joker and Dr. Chakwas. Even though they pretty much just stay on the ship the whole time there is no doubt they've been the most loyal out of all of Shepard's crew. Hell they jumped on board Shepard's crew in the second game before Shepard even knew she had a crew to work with. In fact out of everyone in the entire franchise, Joker has the unique quality of being the only person gaurenteed to live through all three games. Not even Shepard herself can really lay that claim.

Now that's something I'd really love to see mentioned in ME3.

That's not quite true.  There are actually 3 characters who are garenteed not to die in at least the first 2 games and are loyal to Shepard.  Joker, Anderson, and Liara... I could also count Hackett, but considering you didn't see his face until Arrival, I'm not sure I should count him.

[darthnick427]

Golden Owl wrote...

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Ash/Kaidan- Intensely loyal
Grunt- Intensely Loyal
Wrex- Intensely Loyal
Liara- Intensely Loyal
Garrus- Loyal
Mordin- Loyal
Miranda- Loyal
Legion- Loyal
Jack- Somewhat Loyal
Thane- Somewhat Loyal
Tali- Somewhat Loyal
Jacob- Not Really Loyal
Kasumi- Not Really Loyal
Zaeed- Not Really Loyal
Samara- Not Really Loyal

Intensely Loyal:

Garrus (from early on)
Wrex (since Virmire)
Liara (though I am not sure it's that healthy)
Jacob (I believe he would become so with a paragon Shep in ME3)
Samara (I believe she also would become so with a paragon Shep in ME3)

Loyal:

Tali (loyal if you didn't have her exiled...Not loyal if you did have her exiled)
Mordin (since his LM)
Grunt (so long as theres fighting to be done, could be a problem when the fightings over though)
Miranda (Maybe more loyal to renegade Shep)
Legion (he will always remain loyal I think)
Jack (only if you romance her, other wise only somewhat loyal)

Somewhat Loyal:

Ash/Kaidan (though this will change to loyal, maybe even intense loyal in ME3)
Thane (unless you romanced him, I can't really see him changing his loyaly status)
Zaeed (as he said, even he can see a galaxy shaking revelation, this accounts for any loyalty he has)
Kasumi (she mentions she is a fan of Sheps, she knows what he is doing is important, this accounts for her loyalty)

IMO

Intensely loyal

Garrus: (Most loyal of them all i'd say since he model himself after everything you do)
Liara: (Saved you from Collectors and basically brought you back)
Wrex: (since Virmire)
Grunt: (You're his battlemaster)
Mordin: ( You help him with doubts of genophage. He will cure or will have destroyed it in ME3 because of you)
Tali: (Only if evidense of father not reveiled and If not exiled. More if romanced)
Jacob: (Respects paragon shep's leadership)
Samara: (If Paragon)
Thane: (You are his only friend and helped him with his son)

Loyal

Jack: (would look out for herself first unless romanced)
Miranda: (More loyal to cerberus)
Kasumi: (Hired gun. but is a fan)
Zaeed: (If killed Vido or if paragon option was used when vido escaped, hired gun)

Somewhat:

Kaidan/Ashley: (Gave no good reason for not joining)

[darthnick427]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Let's make it quantitative. Assuming all loyalty missions completed successfully and everyone lives.

In terms of loyalty to Shepard, on the scale of 0 to 10, 10 being the most loyal 0 being the least:


9.5~10 = Comrades Forged in Fire and Blood

8~9 = Trusted

5.5~7.5 = Dependable

3~5 = Unreliable

0~2.5 = Hazarduous


Shepard: 10

Liara: 10

Garrus: 9.5

Anderson: 9.5

Grunt: 9

Wrex: 9

Mordin: 9

Chakwas: 9

Joker: 8.5

Tali: 8.5

Legion: 8.5

Samara (for Paragons): 8.5

Hackett: 8

Miranda: 8

Jacob: 8

Kasumi: 7.5

Thane: 7

Zaeed (for Renegades): 6.5

Jack (if LI): 6

VS (if LI): 5

Zaeed (for Paragons): 5

Jack (if not LI): 4.5

VS (if not LI): 3

Samara (for Renegades): 2.5

Morinth: 1

Udina: 0.5

I think this is spot on except thane. I think he's a 7.5 or 8

[Kaiser Shepard]

Ryzaki wrote...

Kachie wrote...
I'm just going by what I know, and have experienced. 

I don't mind if people hate Liara, or the Asari in general. I DO know one person who despises the race and finds them all a bunch of ****s.

Do I agree? Not really, but can I respect it? You bet I can, because that's who I am. I respect what people feel or think

 

So am I. 

My only issue is the way her friendship(like Garrus and Tali's) is forced on Shepard even if that's not what happened in ME1. 

It's bad storytelling. 

It's mostly the hug when you meet her in ME2 vanilla if not romanced.

You can get pissed of at her, though...
 

Ryzaki wrote...

As for a lot of time and resources, I'm not asking for completely different plotlines. I'm asking for a few lines difference without the forced Shepard my friend.

Reminds me of a certain ending of Origins being imported intro Awakening...

[The Twilight God]

Dariustwinblade wrote...

Oh! And I should mention Joker is the reason you are dead in Me2.

No, he isn't.

[ShadowSplicer]

MY LIST:
Liara T'Soni: Intensely Loyal (Love Interest)
Garrus Vakarian: Intensely Loyal (Bro)
Urdnot Wrex: Intensely Loyal (Second Bro)
Tali'Zorah Vas Normandy: Loyal
Kaidan: Neutral
Ashley: No comment, let's just say we didn't agree on our views on aliens, and thus she was joyfully left to die on Virmire.
Miranda Lawson: Loyal
Jacob Taylor: Disloyal and Dead. Jacob always came off as an **** to me late in the game, no idea why, he starts off nice but is just a douche from Thane's Recruitment and onwards.
Mordin Solus: Loyal
Urdnot Grunt: Intensely Loyal (Third Bro)
Jack, Subject Zeo: Neutral
Thane Krios: Loyal
Legion: Loyal
Kasumi Goto: Loyal
Samara, Asari Justicar: Loyal.
Zaeed Massani: Disloyal and Dead.
James Vega: ...

[Creativechick113]

You guys are all going to hate me, but I think in a way the VS is pretty loyal too. Not necessarily to Shepard, but to their beliefs. They really stick by what they think is right, and to me, that means loyalty. But, it might just be me.

[DarkDragon777]

As do I.