I'm currently replaying BG2 after 10 or so years from playing it. I guess you can say that financially I wont be getting anything new for awhile so I figure I would pay a visit to some oldies that i had not played in ages.
After glimpsing through the classes and play testing them through the initial dungeon I've concluded that Shapeshifter kit for Druid was my choice to play through the game. I play unmodded so everything is vanilla except the bonus content from the collectors edition.
So far the game has been fairly easy going with the shapeshifter doing most of the killing not purposely planned either.
Before I proceed further I want to get some information about the shapeshifter flaws. I could easily just play the game and learn them, but I would hate to get to a point in the game not beable to proceed as a result of glitches or bugs associated with the character i chose.
1. Is there any game breaking issues with the class kit?
2. Will the druid exp table be an issue?
3. Are druid spells helpful?
Those are my main concerns... Being away from the game for 10 years has eroded most of the extended information I recall. Only thing I remember is the core stuff as resting before spells are actively learn and such.
Any information on the class kit would help my playthrough to be more enjoyable without headaches in the future.
Shapeshifting Druid questions...
Débuté par
Krazy Solo
, juil. 08 2011 08:39
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#2
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 02:10
kenng
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It is woefully underpowered for one. Your form should still do fine for the majority of fights which involve multiple weaker foes, but against stronger individual enemies, you will have a very hard time, because the form doesn't really allow for a lot of options.
Useful druid spells would be buffs (because you cannot cast spells in werewolf form) and summons.
Assuming you have ToB, it just means you will stagnate at lv14 for a while, but once you hit lv15, you get it all back with a huge boost to your spell slots.
Useful druid spells would be buffs (because you cannot cast spells in werewolf form) and summons.
Assuming you have ToB, it just means you will stagnate at lv14 for a while, but once you hit lv15, you get it all back with a huge boost to your spell slots.
#3
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 03:27
polytope
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The shapeshifter becomes outclassed very soon in the vanilla game, because the paw only does 1d6 damage and counts as a +2 weapon (many creatures in BG2 need +3 or better to hit).Krazy Solo wrote...
1. Is there any game breaking issues with the class kit?
From some leftover (unused) files in the game it looks like the shapeshifter's greater werewolf form was supposed to have a much stronger weapon, but this wasn't implemented. I would recommend mods if you want a shapeshifter ("Shapeshifter rebalancing" from ease of use/G3 is overpowered, but "Improved Shapeshifting" component from Sword Coast Stratagems is quite good)
Most of the low level druid spells are nothing special, but Call Lightning is good (outdoors only), Call Woodland Beings is very useful (summons a nymph with a range of spells). Insect plague is nearly broken in the unmodded game, so is Nature's Beauty - though you need to wait till lvl 14 for the latter.
Modifié par polytope, 09 juillet 2011 - 03:28 .
#4
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 01:30
BelgarathMTH
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First, you do have to use Baldur's Gate Tweaks or Sword Coast Strategems, "shapeshifter rebalancing", to make it Do What It Says on the Tin, plus a couple more neat features are added by the mods.
After that's done, I find Shapeshifters great fun to play, and very powerful through most of the game. You would have a very hard time playing solo with it, because there will be battles where you will need magic weapons.But as long as you're part of a party team, Shapeshifters are a blast!
They are good against non-lich mages, because mages use a spell called "Protection from Magical Weapons" that make them invulnerable to, well, magical weapons. Your wolfie claws however, will rip right through that.
(Or does the spell take into account the magic weapon equivalency? Experts, how about it?)
Also, they make for great role-playing for anybody who likes stuff like Twilight or Vampire Diaries or True Blood, and who identifies with the wolfie characters on those shows.
My vote is that you should install one of the mods to repair the class features, and then go for it! You'll have a lot of fun with it!
After that's done, I find Shapeshifters great fun to play, and very powerful through most of the game. You would have a very hard time playing solo with it, because there will be battles where you will need magic weapons.But as long as you're part of a party team, Shapeshifters are a blast!
They are good against non-lich mages, because mages use a spell called "Protection from Magical Weapons" that make them invulnerable to, well, magical weapons. Your wolfie claws however, will rip right through that.
(Or does the spell take into account the magic weapon equivalency? Experts, how about it?)
Also, they make for great role-playing for anybody who likes stuff like Twilight or Vampire Diaries or True Blood, and who identifies with the wolfie characters on those shows.
My vote is that you should install one of the mods to repair the class features, and then go for it! You'll have a lot of fun with it!
Modifié par BelgarathMTH, 09 juillet 2011 - 01:35 .
#5
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 04:17
Grond0
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I've never played a shapeshifter, but my guess is that you would not be able to hit a mage protected like that. Certainly monk fists at higher levels (which count as magical weapons) can't do so, although that has always struck me as unfair.BelgarathMTH wrote...
They are good against non-lich mages, because mages use a spell called "Protection from Magical Weapons" that make them invulnerable to, well, magical weapons. Your wolfie claws however, will rip right through that.
(Or does the spell take into account the magic weapon equivalency? Experts, how about it?)
#6
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 07:08
Reticent
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Despite the the Shapeshifter being allegedly "underpowered", you really don't have anything to worry about. The Werewolf and Greater Werewolf go from being fantastic when you first get them to being underwhelming, but they're still good enough to help the party out with fighting trash mobs and random spawns for the whole saga, and when you are fighting anything tougher you still have a full powered divine spellcaster when you aren't shapeshifted. On the whole you end up with a Druid who is more useful when you are trying to conserve your spells and is still just as powerful when it comes to spell casting.
Some tips:
Put a point into single weapon style, when shapeshifted it lets you critical hit twice as often and improves your AC.
Carry weapons and equipment that have abilities you have to actively use, these abilities can still be used even while shapeshifted (Example, a Staff of Thunder and Lightning will let you cast lighting bolt while shapeshifted.)
Monopolize items that improve your THAC0 and AC, these will keep your werewolf forms useful longer (and your fighters don't really need them anyway).
Pay attention to your resistances, particularly once you have Greater Werewolf form. Greater Werewolf has very good resistances to start with, so with the right gear you can really make them excel.
If you are willing to do certain things the evil way late in SoA (no spoilers!) you can get attribute improvements that stack with your forms, taking your physical attributes extremely high. Personally, I always felt a Druid should be trying to balance how he approaches things.
Druids have lots of good spells, it is just that the best of them are all bunched together on levels 4, 5, and 6. I'll second though that Call Lightning is an extremely powerful spell at level 3, you're just constrained on when it is able to be cast. Any time you can cast it though it is among the best direct damage spells in the game.
In some ways the unusual experience table for Druids is a good thing. Druids hit level 15 at 3 million experience points. This is the same point at which characters gain their first High Level Ability. Most divine High Level Abilities are spells that go in level 6 memorization slots. A level 15 Druid has 6 level 6 spell slots, this is three times as many as Cleric at the same experience total (level 21 for them)!
When it comes to High Level Abilities make sure you get one of the Devas, Greater Elemental Summoning, and probably Storm of Vengeance and Energy Blades. Doesn't have to be in that order. After you get the spells you want, don't be afraid to choose the elemental shapeshifts. They don't take spell slots so they don't have to compete for memorization. Earth Elemental form is surprisingly good for fighting, maybe better than Greater Werewolf.
Some tips:
Put a point into single weapon style, when shapeshifted it lets you critical hit twice as often and improves your AC.
Carry weapons and equipment that have abilities you have to actively use, these abilities can still be used even while shapeshifted (Example, a Staff of Thunder and Lightning will let you cast lighting bolt while shapeshifted.)
Monopolize items that improve your THAC0 and AC, these will keep your werewolf forms useful longer (and your fighters don't really need them anyway).
Pay attention to your resistances, particularly once you have Greater Werewolf form. Greater Werewolf has very good resistances to start with, so with the right gear you can really make them excel.
If you are willing to do certain things the evil way late in SoA (no spoilers!) you can get attribute improvements that stack with your forms, taking your physical attributes extremely high. Personally, I always felt a Druid should be trying to balance how he approaches things.
Druids have lots of good spells, it is just that the best of them are all bunched together on levels 4, 5, and 6. I'll second though that Call Lightning is an extremely powerful spell at level 3, you're just constrained on when it is able to be cast. Any time you can cast it though it is among the best direct damage spells in the game.
In some ways the unusual experience table for Druids is a good thing. Druids hit level 15 at 3 million experience points. This is the same point at which characters gain their first High Level Ability. Most divine High Level Abilities are spells that go in level 6 memorization slots. A level 15 Druid has 6 level 6 spell slots, this is three times as many as Cleric at the same experience total (level 21 for them)!
When it comes to High Level Abilities make sure you get one of the Devas, Greater Elemental Summoning, and probably Storm of Vengeance and Energy Blades. Doesn't have to be in that order. After you get the spells you want, don't be afraid to choose the elemental shapeshifts. They don't take spell slots so they don't have to compete for memorization. Earth Elemental form is surprisingly good for fighting, maybe better than Greater Werewolf.
Modifié par Reticent, 10 juillet 2011 - 07:29 .
#7
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 02:54
Krazy Solo
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Thank you all for the responses...
So I have nothing to worry about with my Druid then. I already recalled the issue with the Wereforms. My choice to go with Shapeshifter over Avenger is the stat lost on creation. I like versatility over specialization.
So far i remade the character when i notice the stats i rolled wasn't optimal for the class. But I'm at the same point in the game again this time with proper stats.
Surprisingly Shapeshifter is probably one of the stronger starting class in the game. -2 ac in wereform makes you nigh unhitable by trash mobs initially. Then you get ironskin for those tougher battles which makes you the best starting tank imho.
Surprisingly I had always put this class kit off as being gimped, but in reality its a very strong party oriented class.
So I have nothing to worry about with my Druid then. I already recalled the issue with the Wereforms. My choice to go with Shapeshifter over Avenger is the stat lost on creation. I like versatility over specialization.
So far i remade the character when i notice the stats i rolled wasn't optimal for the class. But I'm at the same point in the game again this time with proper stats.
Surprisingly Shapeshifter is probably one of the stronger starting class in the game. -2 ac in wereform makes you nigh unhitable by trash mobs initially. Then you get ironskin for those tougher battles which makes you the best starting tank imho.
Surprisingly I had always put this class kit off as being gimped, but in reality its a very strong party oriented class.
#8
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 11:20
Windfoot
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you mentioned both Avengers and Shapeshifters...what about Totemic? imo, they are the most powerful druids.
#9
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 04:55
BelgarathMTH
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@Windfoot, how do Totemists do against dragons? I guess more specifically, I'm asking how do the spirit summonses do against dragons?
My experience with the Totemist is that the animal spirits overpower the game in BG1, and then they started to strike me as kind of weak in late BG2, because they don't last long and you run out of summons per day, or I did.
My experience with the Totemist is that the animal spirits overpower the game in BG1, and then they started to strike me as kind of weak in late BG2, because they don't last long and you run out of summons per day, or I did.
#10
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 05:08
Reticent
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My experience is that spirit summons do not do especially well against dragons, but they are at least very quickly summoned cannon fodder that can still contribute with some lucky rolling.
#11
Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 07:48
Krazy Solo
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Reason for not concidering Totemic Druid kit has more to do with my interest in Shapeshifting than summoning.
So far my Shapeshifter has proven to be more than enough of a tank at the moment. Be it that later the form will lack the weapon property to hit tougher enemies. Until then he will remain the lead tank. When I reach that point I may concider Keldorn or another NPC to help with front line duties as i take more of a support role in most tougher battles.
So far my Shapeshifter has proven to be more than enough of a tank at the moment. Be it that later the form will lack the weapon property to hit tougher enemies. Until then he will remain the lead tank. When I reach that point I may concider Keldorn or another NPC to help with front line duties as i take more of a support role in most tougher battles.
#12
Posté 20 juillet 2011 - 12:35
Krazy Solo
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Well I can definately say the Kit is monster of a tank, but that is all it really does. Can't hit much of anything do to the limitations of claws being +2 although greater wereform should be +3 but aren't for some reason at least when I was fighting greater mummy couldn't hit it with druid.
#13
Posté 20 juillet 2011 - 02:12
Reticent
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You know, I just noticed I kept typing level 6 spells/slots in a post above when I obviously meant level 7.
Hooray for brain-farts :-/
Hooray for brain-farts :-/
#14
Posté 01 août 2011 - 08:55
Krazy Solo
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Ok my druid playthrough came to a sad end as I rage quit out of anger and deleted one too many game files including my druid which i enjoyed. Lesson learn I guess. Will try to redo such playthrough another time I guess.
