277 réponses à ce sujet

[JaegerBane]

OdanUrr wrote...

Concerning the 2000 years discussion...

1) It could have easily been a slip from the devs and upon installation of the DLC all codex entries will be fixed to reflect this.

Most likely. According to the Codex entry for the Graybox in ME2, the Graybox was hailed as a way to level the playing field between Salarians and Humans in terms of memory.... decades before the two species were aware of each other's existence.

Hell, in Dragon age 2, Anders has managed to quit the Grey Wardens years before he actually joined, and even managed to join with a spirit he won't have met until months in the future. It's not like we have any reason to believe that the timeline in Bioware's stuff is sacrosanct.

2) Perhaps it wasn't built by the Wardens but, at some point in time, the Wardens took it as their own. Thousands of years after the fact, any present Grey Warden may be led to believe it was built by the Wardens in the first place, especially if historical records were tampered with to reflect this, if there are any at all. I'm more fond of this explanation. Everything should NOT be tied to the Wardens.

VERY unlikely. Aside from it requiring us to flatly disregard what the Grey Warden mentioned (which is possible, but begs the question why the line was included in the trailer in the first place) the Darkspawn themselves only appeared about 1300 years ago. So we have a prison that was built by an order centuries before they were formed, to hold an enemy of a race that didn't exist at the time of the construction. It's far more likely someone made a mistake in the dates.

'Course, if they hadn't, it'll make for an interesting explanation.

[JaegerBane]

Aaleel wrote...
No the Grey Warden says but all magic fades.  For all we know her next statement could have been this magic was made to last 2000 years for example.

The DLC can make sense without anything being wrong with the prison.  They need Hawke's blood for a reason, maybe the blood was used to imprison it, and blood can be used to free.  Obviously it's still trapped and can't get out, so the magic is in place.  It says in the trailer if I can't leave with you, I'll leave through you.  So the blood must be the key to breaking the seal and getting out.

But nothing I heard says that the seal has to be on the verge or failure or is on the verge of failure.

Think it through, then. Ask yourself the question as to why on earth anyone is willing to march into the depths, fighting Darkspawn and Demons, purely to deal with this problem if isn't even going to be an issue for centuries. Why on earth is Hawke, gangs and grey wardens actually doing anything here if there's no reason to handle this problem right now?

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Hawke's blood is needed to 're-set' whatever measure was taken in the first place, but could just as easily break it - which is presumably why those criminals are after Hawke (maybe they made a deal with the Conductor? Maybe they're cultists of some kind?). But the idea that everyone could just leave everything as it is for hundreds of years and there'd be no problem, they just feel like doing this right now just for s***s and giggles is simply absurd.

[Aaleel]

JaegerBane wrote...

Think it through, then. Ask yourself the question as to why on earth anyone is willing to march into the depths, fighting Darkspawn and Demons, purely to deal with this problem if isn't even going to be an issue for centuries. Why on earth is Hawke, gangs and grey wardens actually doing anything here if there's no reason to handle this problem right now?

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Hawke's blood is needed to 're-set' whatever measure was taken in the first place, but could just as easily break it - which is presumably why those criminals are after Hawke (maybe they made a deal with the Conductor? Maybe they're cultists of some kind?). But the idea that everyone could just leave everything as it is for hundreds of years and there'd be no problem, they just feel like doing this right now just for s***s and giggles is simply absurd.

That would make sense if the Grey Warden's came to Hawke and said this seal is about to break we used your families blood once, and we can use it again to reset the seal.  Nice, clean and tidy.

But it's criminals after Hawke, and if this is darkspawn is called the conductor, maybe it can control people, and it sent these criminals to get blood so it can get out.  Hawke gets tired of these attacks and goes to investigate what's going on in these mountains, and that's where they run into the Grey Wardens and compare notes.

So I've thought this through, and this makes much more sense to me.

[OdanUrr]

JaegerBane wrote...

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Hawke's blood is needed to 're-set' whatever measure was taken in the first place (...)

Why the PC? Let's for one second assume Bethany or Carver are Grey Wardens. If it's Hawke blood the Wardens need, why not appeal to one of their own? Why travel all the way to Kirkwall for Garrett/Marian Hawke? Unless, of course, the PC's blood is different from that of his "siblings"...

[In Exile]

JaegerBane wrote...
VERY unlikely. Aside from it requiring us to flatly disregard what the Grey Warden mentioned (which is possible, but begs the question why the line was included in the trailer in the first place) the Darkspawn themselves only appeared about 1300 years ago. So we have a prison that was built by an order centuries before they were formed, to hold an enemy of a race that didn't exist at the time of the construction. It's far more likely someone made a mistake in the dates.

The actual origins of the blight seem to be very... not legit, shall we say. The dwarf intro for example essentially says the chantry is full of ****.

[In Exile]

OdanUrr wrote...
Why the PC? Let's for one second assume Bethany or Carver are Grey Wardens. If it's Hawke blood the Wardens need, why not appeal to one of their own? Why travel all the way to Kirkwall for Garrett/Marian Hawke? Unless, of course, the PC's blood is different from that of his "siblings"...

Or rather, the taint might screw it up.

[Darth Death]

Hmm... There's not much room for forgiveness, since (IMO) the overall experience was dissatisfying. Compensation is impossible.

[Nerevar-as]

OdanUrr wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Hawke's blood is needed to 're-set' whatever measure was taken in the first place (...)

Why the PC? Let's for one second assume Bethany or Carver are Grey Wardens. If it's Hawke blood the Wardens need, why not appeal to one of their own? Why travel all the way to Kirkwall for Garrett/Marian Hawke? Unless, of course, the PC's blood is different from that of his "siblings"...

Good point. If the sibling joined the GW, getting Hawke would be unnecessary. I guess if I get this I´ll play it during the first act, as it´s likely the one where it´ll make more sense.

Although there´s also the possibility GW taint corruption renders their blood unsuitable for the magics involved.

[OdanUrr]

In Exile wrote...

Or rather, the taint might screw it up.

Or Hawke isn't a Hawke...

[Nerevar-as]

OdanUrr wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Or rather, the taint might screw it up.

Or Hawke isn't a Hawke...

More likely the sibling wouldn´t be a Hawke...

[chunkyman]

I will be very skeptical of DA2 DLC because I didn't really like the base game. If Bioware shows a commitment to change I will consider it.

[JaegerBane]

Aaleel wrote...
But it's criminals after Hawke, and if this is darkspawn is called the conductor, maybe it can control people, and it sent these criminals to get blood so it can get out.  Hawke gets tired of these attacks and goes to investigate what's going on in these mountains, and that's where they run into the Grey Wardens and compare notes.

So I've thought this through, and this makes much more sense to me.

So, let me get this straight.

Hawke gets mobbed by some evil hoodlums who want his blood. Maybe they're bewitched, blood magic'd or simply on the conductor's pay role. He chooses to find out what's going on here with the long term aims of stopping the personal assaults, all good and well so far.

While he's down there, he meets a team of Grey Wardens who, rather than out trying to recruit more grey wardens to replace their virtually annihilated Ferelden branch, they've chosen instead to pre-empt a possible problem that may raise it's head in hundreds of years time. Purely because they felt like it. And they just happen to run into the very person who could sort this out for them.

Come off it, Aaleel. Something doesn't add up there. If there's centuries left before any concern has to be raised, there has to be another reason why they're down there now, as oppose to in several centuries time. They're not going to risk their lives simply for the lulz. You clearly aren't thinking it through.

Compared to all this, we have the situation where Bioware mucked up the dates... or there's further information we haven't been made aware of. Honestly, which do you think is the most likely?

Modifié par JaegerBane, 09 juillet 2011 - 05:28 .

[JaegerBane]

In Exile wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...
VERY unlikely. Aside from it requiring us to flatly disregard what the Grey Warden mentioned (which is possible, but begs the question why the line was included in the trailer in the first place) the Darkspawn themselves only appeared about 1300 years ago. So we have a prison that was built by an order centuries before they were formed, to hold an enemy of a race that didn't exist at the time of the construction. It's far more likely someone made a mistake in the dates.

The actual origins of the blight seem to be very... not legit, shall we say. The dwarf intro for example essentially says the chantry is full of ****.

The explanation behind their origins maybe, but the dates of first contact seem pretty solid.

Unless you're saying that, despite the *massive* amount of lyrium trade going on between the Tevinter and the Dwarves, the Dwarves somehow managed to keep the whole darkspawn thing a secret until they were pushed back to Orzammar and the first blight occurred. For long enough to explain the disparity between the Conductor's words and first contact.

[Aaleel]

JaegerBane wrote...

So, let me get this straight.

Hawke gets mobbed by some evil hoodlums who want his blood. Maybe they're bewitched, blood magic'd or simply on the conductor's pay role. He chooses to find out what's going on here with the long term aims of stopping the personal assaults, all good and well so far.

While he's down there, he meets a team of Grey Wardens who, rather than out trying to recruit more grey wardens to replace their virtually annihilated Ferelden branch, they've chosen instead to pre-empt a possible problem that may raise it's head in hundreds of years time. Purely because they felt like it. And they just happen to run into the very person who could sort this out for them.

Come off it, Aaleel. Something doesn't add up there. If there's centuries left before any concern has to be raised, there has to be another reason why they're down there now, as oppose to in several centuries time. They're not going to risk their lives simply for the lulz. You clearly aren't thinking it through.

Compared to all this, we have the situation where Bioware mucked up the dates... or there's further information we haven't been made aware of. Honestly, which do you think is the most likely?

It makes more sense than Grey Wardens or anyone else needing the blood to redo the seal and not just asking Hawke.  What is Hawke going to say no lol, I won't help you keep this thing locked up.  That makes absolutely no sense.

Criminals are working for this thing to break it out.  If the seal is collapsing they wouldn;t need the blood for anything the seal is collapsing it can walk out on it's own shortly.  There's no other explanation other than that this conductor needs the blood to escape because everything is stil strongly in place.

The conductor says if I can't leave with you, I'll leave through you, so he's obviously still well trapped.  Also when the line about the magic being broken plays, the person they show is a Grey Warden, not a prisoner.

Eidt: Also it says 2000 years the maguc holds (Like it's still ongoing), and not 2000 it held, like the time has run out. 

Modifié par Aaleel, 09 juillet 2011 - 05:44 .

[JaegerBane]

Aaleel wrote...
Criminals are working for this thing to break it out.  If the seal is collapsing they wouldn;t need the blood for anything the seal is collapsing it can walk out on it's own shortly.  There's no other explanation other than that this conductor needs the blood to escape because everything is stil strongly in place.

The conductor says if I can't leave with you, I'll leave through you, so he's obviously still well trapped.

He can't be that well trapped if he doesn't even need Hawke's cooperation to escape.

I don't pretend to know the full story here. I'm fully aware that there has to some further reasoning as to what is going on that we're simply not going to know until the DLC gets released. All I'm saying is that the idea that his prison is all safe and sound, and that everyone - the conductor, the criminals, the grey wardens etc - is suddenly springing into action despite centuries still left on the clock doesn't make sense as it stands.

In comparison to this, we have the simple situation that the writers mucked up the dates (which we know they done before, repeatedly) or there's further info that we haven't been made aware of (which is near certain). Why are you so convinced that your crazy idea of a hard 2000 year limit is the answer, purely from watching what little content we see in the trailer?

  Also when the line about the magic being broken plays, the person they show is a Grey Warden, not a prisoner.

We don't know who this person is, nor is there any reason to attach any significance to the simple fact that he happens to appear at the same time a given word is mentioned. That is over-analysis to the point of absurdity. What's next? Justice appears around the time 'blood' is mentioned, am I to assume that means it's something to do with his blood? Despite not having any because he's a spirit?

Eidt: Also it says 2000 years the maguc holds (Like it's still ongoing), and not 2000 it held, like the time has run out. 

Oh come on. Your entire conjecture depends on the tense of a single word? Really? He also says 'you are what held me', are you asserting Hawke himself carried the poor dude around for a bit? Automatically assuming that any word mentioned is 100% literal is being silly.

[Aaleel]

JaegerBane wrote...

We don't know who this person is, nor is there any reason to attach any significance to the simple fact that he happens to appear at the same time a given word is mentioned. That is over-analysis to the point of absurdity. What's next? Justice appears around the time 'blood' is mentioned, am I to assume that means it's something to do with his blood? Despite not having any because he's a spirit?

Um the only reason I said that is because you said this;

It doesn't actually say this. It is said that the Grey Wardens built the prison, and that whatever measures they took are now fading. The 2000 figure is only ever mentioned by what is presumably the Prisoner

You put it out there what this person was.

The rest we'll just have to agree to disagree on. 

Modifié par Aaleel, 09 juillet 2011 - 06:12 .

[Silentmode]

My thoughts on Legacy.

I think it looks really good. Like they have listened to feedback and made a quality 3 hour dlc that adresses a lot of the problems that were commonly complained about. I'm excited about it.

And I also think since it comes out on my birthday Bioware should give it to me for free as a birthday present.

[JaegerBane]

Aaleel wrote...
Um the only reason I said that is because you said this;

It doesn't actually say this. It is said that the Grey Wardens built the
prison, and that whatever measures they took are now fading. The 2000
figure is only ever mentioned by what is presumably the Prisoner

You put it out there what this person was.

The rest we'll just have to agree to disagree on. 

I think you've misunderstood this. My point was that the 2000 figure was only being mentioned by the very individual who was being imprisoned, at least in assumption - ergo there is no indication the Grey Wardens themselves were aware of any specifc time limit other than there is one. You were conflating the two pieces of information together to support your point - "...said that the Grey Wardens built the prison to hold that darkspawn, and put in place magic that will last and hold it 2000 years..."

I wasn't making any reference to that bearded guy whatsoever.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 09 juillet 2011 - 06:19 .

[Aaleel]

JaegerBane wrote...

Aaleel wrote...
Um the only reason I said that is because you said this;

It doesn't actually say this. It is said that the Grey Wardens built the
prison, and that whatever measures they took are now fading. The 2000
figure is only ever mentioned by what is presumably the Prisoner

You put it out there what this person was.

The rest we'll just have to agree to disagree on. 

I think you've misunderstood this. My point was that the 2000 figure was only being mentioned by the very individual who was being imprisoned, at least in assumption - ergo there is no indication the Grey Wardens themselves were aware of any specifc time limit other than there is one. You were conflating the two pieces of information together to support your point - "...said that the Grey Wardens built the prison to hold that darkspawn, and put in place magic that will last and hold it 2000 years..."

I wasn't making any reference to that bearded guy whatsoever.

It's not even the same person talking.  He says the seal has been broken but you hold the key to his death (his death being the prisoner's).  But whatever, I'll just have to agree to disagree.

Modifié par Aaleel, 09 juillet 2011 - 07:40 .

[Savber100]

MagmaSaiyan wrote...


-Origins had no consequence in choices in any of the dlc(witch hunt an exception) so why would DA2 be any different, as far as linear maps...just shut it, alot games end up having alot of linear maps with a few different paths that end up as dead ends cant expect this as an mmorpg.
-cliched stories happen alot, i can see how just 1 game not having a cliched storyline will make you hate anything else otherwise
-name something more interesting and im pretty sure id hate the crap out of it too

honestly i see it going quite far, your just too blind on how DA2 was so horrible to you to see what it may make DA3 like, oh but wait, becaue you hate Da2 so much that you lost all hope for future titles, well, i feel sorry for you for being too picky and expecting DA2 to be exactly like Origins. on a dlc note(you not neccesarily targeted) but, people didnt even like most or any of Origins dlc so i dont see how it gonna change the fact that it is only a dlc(30 min tops) and will not even make most people play or even buy the dlc.

Wrong. 
DA:O was not perfect but it still had significant C&C compared to DA2. The quest in Redcliffe alone had more choice and consequences than the first and second act of DA2 combined. While the epilogue slideshow wasn't great, it still have the basic idea that what you did impacted the endgame.

LOL at the linear maps part. You don't play a lot of RPGs do you? Look at Baldur's Gate 2... Look at the Witcher 2. 
Dragon Age: Origins had hubs more varied and bigger than DA2 with plenty of places to explore. Believe it or not, not all RPGs have a single corrider that funnels you through a linear path to the end like DA2 did.  DA:O is not perfect (the Deep Roads) but it was going in the right direction compared to the crapfest DA2 which had the Deep Road syndrome throughout the ENTIRE game. 

On your point on cliched stories, I love how you begin to generalize your arguments.  

Here's a hint... There's a difference between allusions or being inspired and ripping off or being cliched. 

Bioware has been having this problem with the stories being too much about "fighting a great evil". BUT, Bioware has always proven to be at its best with these stock plotlines. DA:O, while being cliched, was still a fun throwback to the old Baldur's Gate and was still pretty damn good despite the story flaws. DA2 was a step in the right direction but the execution was horrendous. Now it seems that all the DA team has learned from feedback is that Bioware fans always want some "big 'ol enemy" to fight which is a return to an old cliche. An entrapped evil that is about to unleashed and only you can stop it? Yawn-o-rama. 

I wish I can reply to the last paragraph but I can't even tell what you're trying to say... sorry  

However, I'll take a shot at it. 

No, I don't hate DA2 but it's still a bitter disappointment. So why can't I speak my thoughts on these issues? This is Bioware... I've being loving them since KOTOR. Am I blind because the sequel failed to honor the promise of DA:O as being the "spiritual successor of Baldur's Gate" ? Oh wait... it's a sequel that means Bioware can totally butcher what made the first DA popular. That makes total sense! 

In the end, I'm just annoyed at the current DIRECTION of the DA team. I'm worried that all they notice is the complaints about repetitve environments and not address the real issues like the writing and the lack of  C&C. 

Modifié par Savber100, 09 juillet 2011 - 07:38 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

I'll buy this dlc just to keep up with the lore of the game. I'm one of those players that stop and read everything. As a major rogue player I'd rather find a book to give me back my steal ability after Act II. I really miss that skill. I'm not a fast player so it will take me longer to play the dlc than other players. I really take my time and look around. It won't bother me that they use the same enviroments that they used, just change the maps please and don't use the same ones. I'm not to happy with the 9.99 price tag. If Shale hadn't come with my game I never would have purchased that content....to expensive.

However, I will purchase, just not on the first day and wait for reviews from players and professionals alike and I'll just wait and buy it later when I want something new to do until the new book comes out this winter.

I'd rather see expansions for the entire series for DAO and DA2. Just sayin.

[Jerrybnsn]

So it's actually an add-on dlc instead of an expansion. An add-on is something that you can add to the main story, an expansion is usually taken as expanding the story from were you left off, like Awakenings was to Origins. Or is Bioware only make three hour expansions now?

[Jerrybnsn]

Nerevar-as wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Or rather, the taint might screw it up.

Or Hawke isn't a Hawke...

More likely the sibling wouldn´t be a Hawke...

Wait a minute.  I thought it was already well established that Hawke and Morrigan have the same mother, and that said mother was a Grey Warden.  Now Hawke isn't even Hawke?  He was adopted?  Wait...that would explain a lot about this game then.

[Jerrybnsn]

I just realised that nobody really ever visits this site anymore. It's like this place has become Playstation Home.

[akayasha]

chunkyman wrote...

I will be very skeptical of DA2 DLC because I didn't really like the base game. If Bioware shows a commitment to change I will consider it.

Well, this DLC is supposed to address what everyone complained about. Three hours seems decent for a DLC I guess. A new area outside of Kirkwall seems good because it won't be "recycled". I'm also guessing that this is about Darkspawn because the majority of people prefered the atmosphere of Dragon Age: Origins? (Grey Wardens/Darkspawn/etc.) I guess Bioware is going in the right step if their trying to address what everyone else complains about. It shows that Bioware is listening at least .